54216 replies to this topic

[Riverkid]

Naruto and Sakura are static Characters, like alomst every Character in the Show. They don't develop throughout the story and the actions, however they develop the way how the writer wants them to develop and the writers totally ignore the logical outcome of an action how it should have been. If you take a look at 'walter white' from Breaking Bad then u can see a well developed character throughout the story.

Naruto not feeling anger when Sakura nearly got killed by Sasuke. Naruto not even feeling angry about orochimaru for killing the 3rd Hokage, however for bad-talking Sasuke. Naruto still looking for Sasuke despite some of the Ninjas are killed by Akatsuki, allthough the best and realistic move would be to prepare against akatsuki to not waste the comrades who died for Naruto out there.

Like... most of the time it doesn't make any sense what they are doing. And the forced development from the writers aren't enough to make the characters more dynamic.. and im not even surprised by that. It is a show for a young-audience, you rarely see some good development in these shows. Static Characters are popular in shounen to maintain the Design without changing too much. The rest ist just commercial production.. 

we don't need to think for a second that any of these writers wanted to write a realistic developed fantasy-shounen story.. Naruto is and will always be a profit-machine for Pierrot, nothing else... because thats how it is. 'Professionalisation' is the progress where u try make alot money with the activity u do the most by sticking to profitable plans.. and u can see this progress in every area. Back in days 'shooting photos' was just a fun activity, a hobby.... now u can make a living out of it. Back in the days u made videos for fun, to test your creativity.. now u can make a living out of it  with all these ads and sponsors. Its the same way with Naruto and Hinata.. just a progress to make more profit of the thing u do.

[Riverkid]

Naruto and Sakura are absolutely not static characters. They do develop significantly. This should not even be argued. The entire story is Naruto's growth, a journey story. This is, by plot structure, FALSE. This would mean their relationship doesn't change. 

 

In fact, a huge problem with a lot of this is that people are saying that the story in a sense, is growing one way, and the author is doing something else, but the author -makes- and forms the story's growth, the author is god of this story and shifts the path. I think a lot of people see these as seperate, but really, the author is moving things along, the author controls the direction, the build up. 

 

The third is the classic profit argument I see a lot that has no weight, and I've addressed to death already. 

Narutos growth? You mean his bodysize, and his powerscaling ? Im sorry, but that isn't enough to call them 'dynamic'. Just because someone is becoming stronger (especially in a shonen) doesn't make them automatically a dynamic Character. Naruto stays for almost the entire series as the guy who is obsessed by Sasuke, looking for him and ignoring his duties to become a good hokage.. and in the meantime telling everyone and the audience how important friendship is. Thats Naruto for you, and u dont need to know more about him because thats all what he is. How can u call someone a dynamic character with such a 1-dimensional design ? 

To be a dynamic Character u need to be a complex Character.. and naruto is faaar away from that. He is Happy until something bad happened to Sasuke. Narutos Design didn't received any development in the story, he is the same as naruto from episode 1 in the shippuden show. 

And no.. the story wasnt growing in a opposite direction. The story went downhill as kishis characterwriting. At the point where he revived everyone during the pain-arc everyone knew that this ship was already sinking heavily.

[sushi.]

Probably because in several threads this is constantly stated. Instead of celebrating the good of NS, we lash at the ending and the manga, which, IMO, is unjustly attacked and criticized.

Why does it bother you so? You're exhausting yourself debating in a forum where every other member disagrees with you, and like you said you've adressed things to death already and it's going nowhere.

 

I can't see where your passion comes from but a shipping perspective.

[lknmjh]

 

Probably because in several threads this is constantly stated. Instead of celebrating the good of NS, we lash at the ending and the manga, which, IMO, is unjustly attacked and criticized.

 

That's it, I can't stand by any longer. Madam, if my good friend James S Cassidy cannot reason with you then perhaps I shall. Yes we do celebrate the good of NaruSaku here, but many of us cannot and will not let the ending be as is. You call BS on the build up and stand by the forced reasoning that it was always meant to be a red herring. To that I say, take a look at this: http://www.narusaku....showtopic=12836

 

Then after you're done taking a look at that, let me provide for you an example of an actual red herring from a manga that did it right.

 

During the Water 7 Saga in One Piece, there were two possible candidates to be the sixth member of the Straw Hats: Paulie (whom, if I must spell it out for you, is the red herring) and Franky. At first, very early on, we are led to believe that Paulie would be the logical choice; he's a competent fighter, he easily forms a bond with the Straw Hats, and he knows a thing or two about fixing up ships (which, at that point in the manga, is how most crew members have joined. Luffy needs a navigator, BAM, Nami. Luffy needs a cook, BAM, Sanji, etc., etc.). Then we have Franky who, once again very early on, becomes the Straw Hats' enemy by severely injuring Usopp and stealing the money he was guarding (which in turn leads to his separation from the Straw Hats, but that is neither here nor there).

 

But then we start to see a change in Franky. We see that through his interactions with Sanji, Nico Robin, and especially Usopp. He sees who the Straw Hats really are and what they were willing to do to save just one of their own. So in turn, he decides to lend them his aid in the rescue. And in the end, while Paulie is still more than capable of kicking all kinds of ass were he to join, it's Franky who ends up joining the Straw Hats thanks to the emotional connections and bonds he was able to make with them.

 

 

NaruSaku was not a red herring. Sakura starts off as someone who at the very least acknowledges Naruto's presence and would maybe help him out in a pinch. But then, through the naturally flowing river that is character development, we start to see a change in her as she not only makes more of an effort to better interact with her teammates, most especially with Naruto, she also starts to better herself as a result of those interactions. Naruto and Sakura's bond then slowly stats forming, but it isn't until Shippuden that we see it truly flourish. She worries about his status as a jinchuuriki and about everything he had to and must still endure because of it. During Pain's/Nagato's destruction of the Hidden Leaf Village, it is she and not Hinata who calls out his name, knowing full well that it is in desperation and that it most likely will be in vain. At the same time, she also begins to see another side of Naruto, a side that he mainly tries to hide from her until Sai comes out and basically spells everything out for her because he cannot stand by watch the person who had changed him the most suffer.

 

And so, after all that, what happens? These two get shafted and we're supposed to accept this as just a natural course of events. No. Just, no. Harry Potter gave more dignity to their characters. The Toy Story franchise gave more dignity to their characters. This series failed in that regard.

Edited by lknmjh, 24 July 2017 - 11:15 PM.

[Shashank95]

Oh for the love of........ This woman thinks she's the only one who is right. Just look at her statements, "I enjoy discussing Naruto, and there are a lot of incorrect statements made to be constantly corrected. It's one thing to have an opinion, which everyone is fine to have, but when information is stated incorrectly, I want to make sure the correct information comes from."

And who exactly are you to say which information is right and which information is wrong? Everything is subjective when it comes to literary interpretation. Which means, your "facts" are just opinions, just like ours, no more right or wrong than ours. So kindly, stop it with the "I'm superior to thou" attitude and stop thinking you're some kind of divine authority on the manga, which you are not.

You seem to have a dangerously skewed viewpoint and you're attacking everyone's opinion. Even when people prove you wrong with manga panels, all you do is try and sound complex to put more weight behind your false narrative which frankly is not fooling anybody. 

[Yyubie]

This is a dangerous position, basically a generalization of how all NS fans have to act and feel or be called insane. It's at best, prejudice. I am an NS fan and I am sane.

Oh my god is that mean : "I am the only sane NS fan here , the rest of you is insane" ?

[ultranx]

Yikes I really did lose my mind talking to the guy...

[Shashank95]

This is dark but damn this is funny!

[ultranx]

Oh my god is that mean : "I am the only sane NS fan here , the rest of you is insane" ?

I lost my mind and had a manic episode because of that wacko analyzer, I'm back though and better than before, hope you all banned him....

[Shashank95]

 

You're quite accurate on literary interpretation, but there are just some interpretations that aren't correct, an interpretation relies on facts to form its postulations. But some people's facts -aren't- facts, so while they have a literary interpretation, it's not very strong. Thus discussing and debate can occur. There are blatantly wrong statements people make, and that I point out.

Once again, all you say no matter how fancy you make it sound are just that, your interpretations. They are not right either. So kindly take those opinions and "Facts" shine em up real nice, turn that sumbeeyatch sideways and stick....... Just google The Rock memes and you'll know what I meant to say. You point out things and spout your own version of what you think happened in the manga. You are not correct, you are not some divine authority to say that you are right and the rest are wrong, and you are definitely not logical.

So basically, only your literary analyses are correct while anyone who says NS was the best pairing cannot read a manga properly? And that their opinions are wrong.

 

Kishimoto did kill Neji to make push NH narrative. Chew on that while you try and formulate your next fancy reply.

Edited by Shashank95, 25 July 2017 - 03:35 AM.

[Shashank95]

I lost my mind and had a manic episode because of that wacko analyzer, I'm back though and better than before, hope you all banned him....

Nope, it's a she and she's still here thinking she is THE authority on the manga. Running around claiming that she is right and has a duty to point out our misinterpretations of the manga and our stance on NS.

[ultranx]

Nope, it's a she and she's still here thinking she is THE authority on the manga. Running around claiming that she is right and has a duty to point out our misinterpretations of the manga and our stance on NS.

Good grief...guess I'll come back sometime later when they're finally gone then so I don't have a brain overload,then xD feel free to message me,when she finally leaves xD

Edited by ultranx, 25 July 2017 - 03:45 AM.

[Yyubie]

 

                                                               VS

 

 

A very cute girl that i like a lot! VS A weirdo who looks away when i look at her.

 

According to The Last naruto already meet hinata when they were very small way before he meets Iruka and she is the FIRST person who acknowledge him and always been there for him. Now you wonder if that's true why did he call her weirdo shy and dark girl ... ? i mean they already know each other right ??. Instead of "A weirdo who looks away when i look at her" at least it should be "My best friend who always been there for me" or something like that. This small panel proves that Naruto NEVER or BARELY know hinata.

 

@Shashank95

That idea that Neji needs to die to make NH cannon is still and forever disturbing to me , it's like some kind of a ritual of a god in some culture , where people have to put sacrifice to appease the god if not the god will destroy the village.

 

Excuse me i'm still on vacation with me family , i try to avoid Pairing / Shipping war discussion as best as i can because i know how Toxic and Polluted it can be (especially the naruto pro ending fandom), i rather spend my time with my loved one and saved my brain resources to find idea for my business.

 

[Riverkid]

 

I have never referred to Naruto's body-size nor power in -any- argument. The growth was in Naruto's understanding of things, to Sasuke, to gaining acknowledgement, to understanding what it meant to be Hokage, to pain, and peace. To state Static growth is to badly not understand characters within the series.

 

We understand that u never referred to Narutos body-size nor his Powerscaling, but there isn't development outside of that.

Narutos understanding towards Sasuke was already clear at the end of Part-1, and it was clear at the beginning of Part-2 where he stated that he want to 'rescue' Sasuke from his darkness/seeking revenge etc.. no matter what happens between them.

'to understand what it meant to be Hokage' ?  I hope u are kidding me

 - I recall Part-1 when they tried to rescue Sasuke from Orochimaru: Neji, Naruto and Choji both got hurt pretty badly (nearly to death) [Neji should have died there btw]

- I recall Part-2 when they tried to chase him in the Orochimaru Hide-out, where Yamato was hurt for saving Sakura before being killed

- I recall when they fought Orochimaru to get Sasuke, where Naruto went 4 Tails and Sakura being hurt

- I recall when Asuma and Jiraiya died while Naruto was busy chasing Sasuke instead of taking care of his Kyubi-Control and Akatsuki

- I recall when Naruto went 'again' for Sasuke after he defeated Pain and left the village as the state of being utterly destroyed

Thats a 'Hokage' for you? His friends and comrades die/being hurt left and right for taking care a big threaht (akatsuki) while Naruto only has one goal "chasing sasuke, and bring him back".
How can u even defend that ?

There was maybe one little hope of Development in Sakura, where she almost decided to give up on Sasuke and to kill him for the sake of her friends and Naruto... That would have been a 'positive' development because Sakura should know that Naruto is heading towards the wrong way to become a 'good' hokage by chasing Sasuke. She was trained by Tsunade, who was a hokage herself, so she should have the understanding of how a 'Hokage' should act and decide.. and is she helping Naruto with that? almost... she failed.. and neglects her development. Even Jiraiya told Naruto that Sasuke would be a unhealthy deflection towards his main goal becoming Hokage.. and he was damn right with that.

All of narutos decisions weren't Hokage-worthy.. he is lucky for being the protagonist to gain power from all sources to defeat every opponent.. but power and strengh isn't making someone a good hokage.

You should read/watch some development outside of the Naruto show.. then u can maybe understand what real characterdevelopment ist. You overvalue some of his understandings and his decision. Just because Naruto is saying "To become a good Hokage i HAVE to save Sasuke" doesnt mean thats the right way.. it only tells that Naruto bascially learned nothing outside of gaining more Power, and stays as a little child. The only real development he got is during Timeskips between Part-1 and Part-2... and between Part 2 and Boruto

Edited by Riverkid, 25 July 2017 - 07:04 AM.

[VanitasDS76491]

That is true I don't want to be rude to her or anything but what got me is the post she made about Sakura feeding Naruto not being romantic, Now I done that to my arm as it was broken and my girlfriend feed me cause it was my good arm, and I find it very nasty that feeding someone you care for is not romantic hell my girlfriend is also a NaruSaku fan as well.
 
Plus I think there is a guy on DA who hates Naruto but loves Hinata and likes NH this shows many if not all NH fans just wanted NH to happen simple cause they loved Hinata and mainly wanted her to be happy, and to get her happy ending, not to mention the BS film which had to ret-con a kitten tone of things to make it work.
 

Very true if she likes NaruSaku, then she should just simple talk about NaruSaku and not why they failed to be together or why SS and NH as she says work together, I mean she knows that we all hate it the ending. Hell ThefirstEvil100 who is also on Fanfiction has left this site and won't be coming back until he knows this as he said NH fan is gone, he think its an NH fan cause its is easy to lie and say something online since you can't see the person face and that they have not brought up anything to prove they love NaruSaku like all the members of this site have.
 
The thing is that Bolt or Boruto is doing badly we all know this sales are all going down, so its only at matter of time I mean look back when Naruto first came out, as of right now the anime ratings in Japan are tied with One piece and Dragonball Super.

Nice work I agree on everything you said. Sad a great guy like evil100 is gone for now, funny he told me about in a private message on fanfiction, are you a NS fan or a reasonable nh Fans that hates the ending, justb asking. Dragon Ball super probably just got more popular with rp what happensin episode 100 with kale going nuts.

[VanitasDS76491]

Excellent Question
 
I love their Dynamic, and how they interact with each other. How -warm- they are in this, and as a fan, I do believe that if they had pursued a romantic relationship it'd never be vanilla, or angst, just this fun dynamic, with bickering, but nothing major that they couldn't get past. I love how the artists portray them, and some fan fiction writings as well. I like how they take care of eachother, and though they weren't the couple to be canon, a lot of traits they had in their dynamic are worth for couples to observe, minus the comical ones.

They work better together than that spineless coward hinata who is still the same as she was when she first appeared. Sakura was there for naruto more than hinata, oh and what was hinata doing while naruto was dying in the war. Having her face in the dirt and begged neji to protect him even though she's the one who got neji killed.

[VanitasDS76491]

You're preaching to us about generalization? Wasn't it you, who first came here and went on a tirade of how you logically analyzed the manga and things were so blatant regarding the pairings and anyone who missed your interpretation of the manga and still liked NS was an ignorant fan? 
Please stop being a hypocrite.
 
You can't like a pairing and then say they never loved each other.

Thanks for that since my post about being baffled was about them analyzer.

[VanitasDS76491]

Its why my friend left you guys knew him as theFirstevil100
 
I mean I did say in my post my own teacher said this ending was bad not sure if she anwered that but if a teacher and people who do reviews for a leaving say its bad then, well the ending is bad.

Don't blame us blame analyzer for making him leave for awhile he's my friend to. Evil 100 is a great writer with great ideas that gives Sakura the love she deserves.

[Konoha'sCrimsonFox]

I think she finds the NH and SS relationship to be very healthy and holds them more higher value than NS.  No get me wrong, I met some people like that. What I mean is that Analyzer is indeed a NS fan, but on the other hand. They are either NH or SS fans to the hardcore (their main dish) to the bone and NS is just like their appetizer  . So technically, it does not matter if they are NS faithful or not. They will always love the main dish and its best to leave them alone with no harm done. And its been three years, so its not surprising that Naruto pro-enders are restless or simply bore that they need our attention. Just take a look at the past several members that had to be banned from spamming multiple threads for an example. For the future, I hope all this farce Ms. Analyzer is dishing out to us will abate that she will be a normal member like use instead of her ending up like Dbx.

 

Personally I don't like how prejudice we are sounding like to be. And I agree with Sushi.

 

And Nate sure has his work cut out with all those warning points 

[Riverkid]

 

Your observations are too shallow, you're evaluating plot and going by what effectively happens in a very bare-bones-esque way. 

 

The Entire Manga is Naruto's Journey to be Hokage. A Growing up story, it's about gaining acknowledgement, and in part 2, about saving Sasuke. Itachi reminds him at some point not to forget his friends or carry everything out alone, as that isn't what a Hokage does, and in the war Arc, you see Naruto bring that understanding in, particulalry when Sasuke speaks of doing things alone in his darkness. 

 

I actually know what Character Development is. I -am- a writer, and Edited/Decided on what stories we published in print in our magazine. I can safely say that Naruto absolutely has it. 

 

 

 

You watch Narutos growth with a rose-tainded glass, and u are not able to critize his bad characterwriting. You are not even able to accept criticism over his Character.

Just because u are a writier doesnt mean u are also in the right.. whats your point anyways with this ? You dont even try to value your arguments with reasonable points, and just tell things and act like those are 'facts' because you are a writer?