Heaven and Earth Deity
Posted 22 July 2017 - 09:52 PM
loosen up man you knew that's a rethorical question.Also yes, I did read the Manga.
Edited by sushi., 22 July 2017 - 09:55 PM.
ナルサク
Heaven and Earth Deity
Posted 22 July 2017 - 09:52 PM
The movie fills in a period, and explains exactly the journey in their relationship to become wife and husband.
The Manga shows the progress up to the point the Last picks off. It -does- build it up, and the Last isn't needed for 700 to make sense for NH either. Still, I recommend one reads the Last, since it is part of the official material, which is why I ask the question.
Also yes, I did read the Manga.
The movie is done to have Naruto start to feel love for Hinata and to show NH.
The Last suffers from retcons of manga facts. The Last is needed for NH to make it happen and to make sense of NH in 700. Else, aside from business and making money, The Last wouldn't show Naruto starting to feel something for Hinata and wouldn't show the start of NH development as in Naruto ---- > Hinata development.
Edited by T XD, 22 July 2017 - 10:26 PM.
Rookie
Posted 23 July 2017 - 03:37 AM
My Brittney-Chan. The girl I love with all my heart and always w
Posted 23 July 2017 - 04:36 AM
Arguably, Naruto didn't need to move on, it was just a Crush. Further, you can love more than one person at once. There is no requirement, nothing socially, that says "Move on from this person first.". His feelings faded, which makes sense, as Crushes do that. Ino's crush of Sasuke faded, it was always shallow, but her going off with Sai wasn't really forced at all. It's not built up much, but the in-between novels expand on it more. I already went over the quote, and its clear in the context with the Last that Naruto did not suddenly love Hinata because of a rivalry with Toneri. Did you watch the Last?
There is nothing debatable about Naruto's feelings being true love for Sakura-Chan. Chapter 3 and pretty every chapter after that proves it. Chapter 3 with him actually starting to understand WHY he loves her. Something Sakura-Chan can't do when it comes to Sasuke. At the point when they were in the hospital and Naruto was willing to put his feelings aside for the sake of hers, showed his love was not only true but selfless as well. How exactly does it make sense for the most genuine love in the Manga to "fade" but not the one with no basis to it? Also, I don't believe Ino's crush on Sasuke ever faded, since the reason she even started to like Sai was because he looked like Sasuke in the first place. So basically, she was forced to be with him. NH was never built up at all. Neither was SS. In The Last, Naruto was pursuing Sakura-Chan lol, and then she tried to tell him his love was out of rivalry, he saw Hinata's feelings and felt GUILTY for not noticing them for so long. Naruto doesn't love Hinata and he shows that consistently. Kishimoto's words- "I felt sorry for Hinata" Should tell you a lot.
Also, I think the whole being in love with two people at once is kitten. If you're "in love with two people at once" Then you're not TRULY in love with that one person you claimed you was in love with before in my opinion.
Edited by Illnevergiveup3, 23 July 2017 - 04:38 AM.
I wish I could have the powers of Superman so I could save protect the world under God's will.
Always have the spirit and the guts to never ever give up no matter what.
Jounin
Posted 23 July 2017 - 05:21 AM
Arguably, Naruto didn't need to move on, it was just a Crush. Further, you can love more than one person at once. There is no requirement, nothing socially, that says "Move on from this person first.". His feelings faded, which makes sense, as Crushes do that. Ino's crush of Sasuke faded, it was always shallow, but her going off with Sai wasn't really forced at all. It's not built up much, but the in-between novels expand on it more. I already went over the quote, and its clear in the context with the Last that Naruto did not suddenly love Hinata because of a rivalry with Toneri. Did you watch the Last?
There is your example of twisted facts.
Jounin
Posted 23 July 2017 - 05:25 AM
Naruto didn't love Sakura in chapter 3. I'm willing to buy and agree that Naruto did love Sakura, but I will not agree that it was in chapter 3. It was a crush back then, and that is something that I can't argue against, because its clearly shown and established that way.
You can read back in this thread I think on NH built up. I haven't done one on SS, but there are touched points on them during the Chuunin Exam's for a starting place if you want to go back and analyze them.
Whoa, Naruto was not pursuing Sakura in the Last. Have you watched it? You would not get that detail wrong if you watched it. And if you haven't watched it, I'm not sure if you should really remark further on it, because your next part is also incorrect. You don't have to watch it, but I think it's poor form to bring up the Last if you haven't watched the film, as you can't analyze it accurately, and your statements come from an incomplete picture, worse if they're from second-hand.
Your last statement is debatable, as I don't think love works that way, but ultimately if it does, then I would hold it to a view that Naruto didn't really love Sakura, and instead, true love grew for Hinata. And I'm not a fan of that view, personally, though it might be an accurate statement. I think Naruto had an attraction for Sakura while his love for Hinata grew.
What is it with you and your obsession to prove that Naruto had feelings for Hinata when he and the Manga made it clear that Sakura was the only girl who held his interest?
The Last is a giant plot hole filled Retcon and you keep quoting that movie as your source. God, Please just shut up. I'm still reeling from the fact that Chester Bennington is dead and I can't deal with your skewed view of Naruto's feelings and your own misguided and misinformed analysis of the manga and you trying to justify SS and NH.
Please just shut up!
Is there someway to block people here, so I don't see this woman's post? I feel like I'm going to pop a nerve dealing with the level of ignorance and misinformation this person has?
Edited by Shashank95, 23 July 2017 - 05:27 AM.
catsitastrophe
Posted 23 July 2017 - 07:18 AM
there is no NH build up theres only a half assed attempt to prop up a minor side character that promptly disappears for whole arcs at a time. Theres no SS build up either as the pairiong is only ever mentioned by one half of it in the first part of the story.
And no Naruto did not have a crush on Sakura. Someone does not make a promise on their LIFE to bring back a love rival and nearly die in the process of carrying it out on multiple occasions for a childish crush based on personal rivalry.
The last is indeed an enormous retcon designed with one goal shoehorn an entire romance into an hour and half movie using eveyr clichéd fan fiction trope I can think of and making a few up as they went.
And its impolite to tell people to shut up, so please do not do so guys this is a debate thread. As long as the debate is civil we should be as well no matter how much we disagree.
Jounin
Posted 23 July 2017 - 01:34 PM
And its impolite to tell people to shut up, so please do not do so guys this is a debate thread. As long as the debate is civil we should be as well no matter how much we disagree.
I know but it's just way too much to deal with this Analyzer right now. I'm gonna take some time off and blast Linkin Park for a while!
My Brittney-Chan. The girl I love with all my heart and always w
Posted 23 July 2017 - 04:08 PM
Naruto didn't love Sakura in chapter 3. I'm willing to buy and agree that Naruto did love Sakura, but I will not agree that it was in chapter 3. It was a crush back then, and that is something that I can't argue against, because its clearly shown and established that way.
You're willing to "buy" it? As you said, "showing is telling" and Chapter 3 and then on pretty much showed that Naruto did indeed love Sakura-Chan. In Chapter 3, it clearly showed that he was starting to understand why he loves her. He was starting to understand the depth of his feelings for her. He even started understand the reasons why, as his words said- "I'm finally starting to see what I love about Sakura-Chan." His feelings started turning into love at that point. Even before he made the Promise it was clear he loves her. Sai's talk with him was the icing on the cake.
You can read back in this thread I think on NH built up. I haven't done one on SS, but there are touched points on them during the Chuunin Exam's for a starting place if you want to go back and analyze them.
NH has NO build up, SS is even worse. I can count on my fingers the number of moments NH had, and none of them showed any romantic feelings from Naruto's end at all. Hinata trying to let Naruto cheat off her test was overshadowed by Sakura-Chan's willingness to put his dream over EVERYTHING even if it meant that Sasuke failed. Naruto defending Hinata from Neji? Naruto turned it into his own personal mission to prove that hard work can beat geniuses. All NH moments was overshadowed by NS moments everytime. But I would love to hear some of these NH and SS "touched points" you are talking about.
Whoa, Naruto was not pursuing Sakura in the Last. Have you watched it? You would not get that detail wrong if you watched it. And if you haven't watched it, I'm not sure if you should really remark further on it, because your next part is also incorrect. You don't have to watch it, but I think it's poor form to bring up the Last if you haven't watched the film, as you can't analyze it accurately, and your statements come from an incomplete picture, worse if they're from second-hand.
Uhm, yes he was in the beginning of the movie. In The Last, Naruto was STILL pursuing Sakura-Chan. It was even revealed during their kitten talk that Naruto may have even told her that he loves her. Then she started on with her, "your love is out of rivalry isn't it?" Which is pretty ironic coming from her. So yes, Naruto was pursuing her in even The Last. If I remember correctly, Naruto and Sakura-Chan even went on a little mini date.
Your last statement is debatable, as I don't think love works that way, but ultimately if it does, then I would hold it to a view that Naruto didn't really love Sakura, and instead, true love grew for Hinata. And I'm not a fan of that view, personally, though it might be an accurate statement. I think Naruto had an attraction for Sakura while his love for Hinata grew.
Did you read the same Manga I read? Even in Chapter 3 it showed that his feelings for her went beyond just her looks. He loves her need for acknowledgement just like him, how similar they are. That was one of the first reasons. He loves her fiestiness, how smart and talented she is as shown by how amazed he was by how she was working on Kankuro in the hospital, and how strong she is. His feelings for her goes well beyond looks. I would love for you to elaborate on how Hinata's love for Naruto is beyond his nindo and never giving up attitude though. Naruto showed actively throughout the Manga even to the last chapters that he doesn't love Hinata and that Sakura-Chan is the apple of his eye, and you have no evidence to prove otherwise, other than The Last Retcon. But then again, Gaiden and the Boruto Manga pretty much further proves my point about his feelings toward Hinata.
Edited by Illnevergiveup3, 23 July 2017 - 04:13 PM.
I wish I could have the powers of Superman so I could save protect the world under God's will.
Always have the spirit and the guts to never ever give up no matter what.
Heaven and Earth Deity
Posted 23 July 2017 - 08:37 PM
Whether anyone has watched the Last doesn't really matter. Pretty much everyone knows what happened in it.
ナルサク
Heaven and Earth Deity
Posted 23 July 2017 - 09:57 PM
Analyzer nobody cares about your logic and views on the manga or The Last fact and point made. So stop shoving your ideas down our throats you're not going to win in convincing us that Kishimoto wanted NH all along because it's complete BS and for the love of God STOP using the movie The Last as a valid source it's a kitten up Twilight version of NH. I don't care what anyone say you are NOT a NS fan you're nothing but a troll.
Heaven and Earth Deity
Posted 23 July 2017 - 10:23 PM
Analyzer nobody cares about your logic and views on the manga or The Last fact and point made. So stop shoving your ideas down our throats you're not going to win in convincing us that Kishimoto wanted NH all along because it's complete BS and for the love of God STOP using the movie The Last as a valid source it's a kitten up Twilight version of NH. I don't care what anyone say you are NOT a NS fan you're nothing but a troll.
NH fans are allowed here, so I don't think he's a fake NS fan or a troll. It's just a NH fan who really thinks he's neutral~ and can convince us that we are wrong because it's somehow important to him that we know that. The username says it all.
ナルサク
Heaven and Earth Deity
Posted 23 July 2017 - 11:50 PM
ナルサク
Jounin
Posted 24 July 2017 - 09:14 AM
I am a NS fan. And I like the Ending, and I advocate that. I can do both.
Be a NS fan, like the Goddamn ending but for the love of everything holy, Stop trying to say that it was justified and stop shoving your opinions down our throat. Enjoy your ending in the confines of your own mind, not ridiculing anyone who thinks on the contrary, saying we're ignorant to believe in NS.
And how can you claim yourself as a NS fan when you clearly think Naruto never loved Sakura? Please, you're fooling no one with those fake comments.
Legendary Ninja
Posted 24 July 2017 - 09:40 AM
Exactly it baffles me this person says they are an NS fan and likes the ending when they got butchered in the ending cause all Sane NS fans hate the ending.Be a NS fan, like the Goddamn ending but for the love of everything holy, Stop trying to say that it was justified and stop shoving your opinions down our throat. Enjoy your ending in the confines of your own mind, not ridiculing anyone who thinks on the contrary, saying we're ignorant to believe in NS.
And how can you claim yourself as a NS fan when you clearly think Naruto never loved Sakura? Please, you're fooling no one with those fake comments.
Genin
Posted 24 July 2017 - 11:36 AM
Exactly it baffles me this person says they are an NS fan and likes the ending when they got butchered in the ending cause all Sane NS fans hate the ending.
That is true I don't want to be rude to her or anything but what got me is the post she made about Sakura feeding Naruto not being romantic, Now I done that to my arm as it was broken and my girlfriend feed me cause it was my good arm, and I find it very nasty that feeding someone you care for is not romantic hell my girlfriend is also a NaruSaku fan as well.
Plus I think there is a guy on DA who hates Naruto but loves Hinata and likes NH this shows many if not all NH fans just wanted NH to happen simple cause they loved Hinata and mainly wanted her to be happy, and to get her happy ending, not to mention the BS film which had to ret-con a kitten tone of things to make it work.
Be a NS fan, like the Goddamn ending but for the love of everything holy, Stop trying to say that it was justified and stop shoving your opinions down our throat. Enjoy your ending in the confines of your own mind, not ridiculing anyone who thinks on the contrary, saying we're ignorant to believe in NS.
And how can you claim yourself as a NS fan when you clearly think Naruto never loved Sakura? Please, you're fooling no one with those fake comments.
Very true if she likes NaruSaku, then she should just simple talk about NaruSaku and not why they failed to be together or why SS and NH as she says work together, I mean she knows that we all hate it the ending. Hell ThefirstEvil100 who is also on Fanfiction has left this site and won't be coming back until he knows this as he said NH fan is gone, he think its an NH fan cause its is easy to lie and say something online since you can't see the person face and that they have not brought up anything to prove they love NaruSaku like all the members of this site have.
The thing is that Bolt or Boruto is doing badly we all know this sales are all going down, so its only at matter of time I mean look back when Naruto first came out, as of right now the anime ratings in Japan are tied with One piece and Dragonball Super.
Jounin
Posted 24 July 2017 - 05:03 PM
This is a dangerous position, basically a generalization of how all NS fans have to act and feel or be called insane. It's at best, prejudice. I am an NS fan and I am sane.
You're preaching to us about generalization? Wasn't it you, who first came here and went on a tirade of how you logically analyzed the manga and things were so blatant regarding the pairings and anyone who missed your interpretation of the manga and still liked NS was an ignorant fan?
Please stop being a hypocrite.
You can't like a pairing and then say they never loved each other.
Heaven and Earth Deity
Posted 24 July 2017 - 05:46 PM
To Conclude, and prove this statement wrong: I adore NS. I do not think they ever loved each other romantically mutually.
What is there to adore then..?
ナルサク
Heaven and Earth Deity
Posted 24 July 2017 - 07:45 PM
Excellent Question
I love their Dynamic, and how they interact with each other. How -warm- they are in this, and as a fan, I do believe that if they had pursued a romantic relationship it'd never be vanilla, or angst, just this fun dynamic, with bickering, but nothing major that they couldn't get past. I love how the artists portray them, and some fan fiction writings as well. I like how they take care of eachother, and though they weren't the couple to be canon, a lot of traits they had in their dynamic are worth for couples to observe, minus the comical ones.
We have several threads about that here, but the only thing you have done since joining this site is walk into every debate thread and deny that the NH ending was a retcon.
ナルサク
Genin
Posted 24 July 2017 - 07:57 PM
We have several threads about that here, but the only thing you have done since joining this site is walk into every debate thread and deny that the NH ending was a retcon.
Its why my friend left you guys knew him as theFirstevil100
I mean I did say in my post my own teacher said this ending was bad not sure if she anwered that but if a teacher and people who do reviews for a leaving say its bad then, well the ending is bad.
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