54213 replies to this topic

[ultranx]

 

Who is "You guys?" Who are you addressing with that? 

 

There isn't any abuse occuring from Sasuke.

right, like the main catch phrase nh fans always used to me to justify why naruto and sakura getting together was bad and didn't make sense wasn't that "tsunderes are too cliche". this was LONG before the ending happened, especially on deviantart from people like koshej.

 

so trying to kill the person in love with you or leaving them for dead isn't abusive?

 

https://www.quora.co...-to-kill-Sakura

 

that was twice, in 2 chapters, back to back. 

first he tries to kill her when her back is turned, kakashi saves her, then when she tries to stop him but doesn't have the courage, he tries to kill her again but naruto saves her.

 

next piece of evidence, kaguya lava world:

 

sasuke left her and kakashi for dead in a pool of lava, naruto tried to save her but kakashi luckily saved both their skins, and naruto cared and sakura thanked him for it. did you see the despair when she thought naruto didn't care about her either?

 

next, genjutsu torture where you kill her in a genjutsu

THIS was sasuke's response to sakura telling him she loved him, chapter 693. genjutsu but still torture.

 

then there's the gaiden where she's taken away by the uchiha clones and sasuke doesn't even lift a finger to stop them nor is emotionally effected. do I need to find that too?

 

next, lets compare this piece of crap series to dragon ball, the series its supposedly inspired by.

 

bulma and yamcha were in love for several years, but yamcha became a playboy and wasn't loyal, so bulma left  him and eventually grew close to vegeta.

how does vegeta react to bulma getting hit by beerus? welllllll xD

 

 

THIS, IS REAL, SELFLESS LOVE.

 

also as a sidenote, do people still think the old english dub faulconer tracks sucked?

Edited by ultranx, 13 July 2017 - 07:29 PM.

[yimiiyumi]

only couple with sasuke which may be good is sasunaru guys, only naruto would really deal with sasuke 

neither sakura, ino or karin

[rocci]

only couple with sasuke which may be good is sasunaru guys, only naruto would really deal with sasuke 
neither sakura, ino or karin

Yeah, that's right.
If this is not a shonen manga, narusasu will become canon pairing.

[ultranx]

analyzer, there is one problem you guys always ignore: you guys left naruto after the pain arc and after the so called fake confession to naruto from sakura, but if you had a brain and kept up with the series after pain arc, and were a loyal reader that cared about the story of this series for 15 years, you'd know it should have ended ns or open ending after the pain arc, because after pain arc is when the series started to decline, all this is post pain arc, after the so called fake confession, all after yahagi, the original editor of kishi, the brains behind naruto, left. and I guess you only watched videos on youtube about the supposed nh scenes during the war too right? am I wrong? heck let me show you something else:

look, sakura loves sasuke, but she's imagining him surrounded in flames, and no longer in a positive light, the anime didn't bother to stay true to this, they lessened the impact because pro hinata. in fact in the pain arc, hinata was blasted away from a single attack from pein in the manga. the anime gave her a top animated entire filler fight scene.  also, in the war, the anime overanimated the hinata tripping over a rock scene, and made it of all things, have more of an impact than sakura trying to save naruto's life, when naruto and sasuke were both dying.  the manga chapter of their supposed death, where sakura and karin say they think they'll both die at the end of the chapter, is called "the real end". that's the literal chapter title.

 

also, hinata was the only one out of all the konoha 11 to not believe in naruto as a fighter, even in the sasuke retrieval  arc, she tried to go in the middle of the fight and help naruto, everyone else, sakura included, believed in him and thought he could handle himself.

 

now, here's is the REAL pain arc:

 

 

will you look at that, others were injured or were busy healing(sakura) and thought naruto could handle himself, and listened to him, but look who didn't, lets continue.

 

didn't hinata give up on freeing the hyuuga clan to be with naruto?

 

she literally said she was selfish, not selfless

and the literal next panel......

your "super strong heroine" is one shot by one shinra tensei.....

 

along with getting her butt kicked in the war and relying on others. hinata is literally the weakest female character in the manga and a side character hardly shown, but the anime and its pro hinata crap make her oversexualized and seem better than sakura.

 

and since sasuke and hinata were overblown out of proportion, we got the "ending"

 

and guess who made your hinata live? pein and sakura

 

AND this is my final post to you analyzer, bye.

Edited by ultranx, 13 July 2017 - 09:01 PM.

[TheFirstEvil100]

analyzer, there is one problem you guys always ignore: you guys left naruto after the pain arc and after the so called fake confession to naruto from sakura, but if you had a brain and kept up with the series after pain arc, and were a loyal reader that cared about the story of this series for 15 years, you'd know it should have ended ns or open ending after the pain arc, because after pain arc is when the series started to decline, all this is post pain arc, after the so called fake confession, all after yahagi, the original editor of kishi, the brains behind naruto, left. and I guess you only watched videos on youtube about the supposed nh scenes during the war too right?

I think that is what Analyzer wants us to do he wants all of us on this site to be like.

 

Oh wow you were right man Naruto and Hinata love is the best romance story in Anime/Manga history, damn dude you were right we here at Heaven and Earth have been so blinded not to see that greatness that NH truly is.

 

Yeah I see the Last Naruto film was a master piece better than any other film that shall ever be made with no ret cons to be seen.

 

The ending to Naruto was fantastic with nothing wrong at all with it all things came to a close in the best way.

 

This, this is what Analyzer wants us to say, but I would sooner die than ever say the things above we as true fans of Naruto know that the ending sucked that Naruto was kitten on for the NH and SS fans that Sasuke got of his crimes free without any punishment.

 

Fans that knows Sakura was screwed over by a sexist writer who thinks so low of women that they should stay with a man that tries to kill them and put them down. Fans that know full well that Naruto knows what love it and not be changed to a dumb ass who thinks love is like food, and would toss away his mothers scarf for a girl he knows nothing about.

 

This is not a site for someone like Analyzer who everyone knows is really an NH fan this is our home, the home of fans that know how bad the ending is, true pro-enders hate us that hate we still like NS and shall always fight to say how bad we are and that we are to blame for Boruto failing which it is.

 

As Big Boss said, “But what better place for us than this it is our only home, our heaven and our hell, this is Outer Heaven.”

Edited by TheFirstEvil100, 13 July 2017 - 08:42 PM.

[Honestly]

That statement is dangerous, as you are implying that everyone who predicted an NH ending before pain arc is brainless, despite being correct.
 
It comes off dangerously as: If I am not right, this is dumb.
 
Further, Sasuke and Sakura were not together in both examples you list. They were practically enemies. It's like calling German Soldiers sneaking up to shoot at French soldiers "abuse". They're not lovers, and so the term "Abuse" is mis-used heavily. I'll add to the second example that Sasuke's priority is keeping Naruto alive so the world lives, and Kakashi and Sakura manage to keep themselves alive. Any examples of abuse have to be from post 699.

analyzer your a surface reader you will never see a problem with this ending even when proof is in your face

[ultranx]

 

This is an exaggeration, but you know that, obviously. I've stated directly: My intent isn't to dissuade, but to add the other side for open tought. It may reinforce your position, or may allow you to add more details to your interpretation. My goal is to analyze Naruto fairly without letting NS bias cloud my thoughts.

 

It's very dangerous to have a mindset that if this person does not agree with us, they do not belong here. It creates this echo chamber, not allowing new thoughts and ideas, which is never good for discussion.

 

analyzer, there is one problem you guys always ignore: you guys left naruto after the pain arc and after the so called fake confession to naruto from sakura, but if you had a brain and kept up with the series after pain arc, and were a loyal reader that cared about the story of this series for 15 years, you'd know it should have ended ns or open ending after the pain arc, because after pain arc is when the series started to decline, all this is post pain arc, after the so called fake confession, all after yahagi, the original editor of kishi, the brains behind naruto, left. and I guess you only watched videos on youtube about the supposed nh scenes during the war too right? am I wrong? heck let me show you something else:

look, sakura loves sasuke, but she's imagining him surrounded in flames, and no longer in a positive light, the anime didn't bother to stay true to this, they lessened the impact because pro hinata. in fact in the pain arc, hinata was blasted away from a single attack from pein in the manga. the anime gave her a top animated entire filler fight scene.  also, in the war, the anime overanimated the hinata tripping over a rock scene, and made it of all things, have more of an impact than sakura trying to save naruto's life, when naruto and sasuke were both dying.  the manga chapter of their supposed death, where sakura and karin say they think they'll both die at the end of the chapter, is called "the real end". that's the literal chapter title.

 

also, hinata was the only one out of all the konoha 11 to not believe in naruto as a fighter, even in the sasuke retrieval  arc, she tried to go in the middle of the fight and help naruto, everyone else, sakura included, believed in him and thought he could handle himself.

 

now, here's is the REAL pain arc:

 

 

will you look at that, others were injured or were busy healing(sakura) and thought naruto could handle himself, and listened to him, but look who didn't, lets continue.

 

didn't hinata give up on freeing the hyuuga clan to be with naruto?

 

she literally said she was selfish, not selfless

and the literal next panel......

your "super strong heroine" is one shot by one shinra tensei.....

 

along with getting her butt kicked in the war and relying on others. hinata is literally the weakest female character in the manga and a side character hardly shown, but the anime and its pro hinata crap make her oversexualized and seem better than sakura.

 

and since sasuke and hinata were overblown out of proportion, we got the "ending"

 

and guess who made your hinata live? pein and sakura

 

AND this is my final post to you analyzer, bye.

look again. bye. I did it, what no ns fan ever had the courage to do, done by a non shipper:

POSTED THE HINATA CONFESSION/PAIN FIGHT, ORIGINAL MANGA FIGHT, UNTAMPERED BY THE ANIME.

 

as I have grown to say after watching wreck it ralph and don't know why people get offended by the word, nor do I care because I hate political correctness, which you fools always used against me:

 

GET WRECKED! I'M GONNA WRECK IT.

 

Mic dropped.

 

wow, that felt good, guess I was bottling all this in from 2011? xD I'm now content.

 

THIS IS A WAKE UP CALL TO ALL PROENDERS, I'M DONE, I WILL NO LONGER TAKE YOUR CRAP, ESPECIALLY YOU DEVIANTART!!!

 

remember me? infern24 and ultranx2010? the guy you demonized to where i quit your site twice to avoid negativity? remember me koshej?

 

okay all better. I feel more cheerful than I ever have since naruto ended.

 

also firstevil I would like your comment, but my like count still hasn't refreshed 0.o did I break my like count? does it even work like that? I have been up all night so idk xD

 

tell me lurkers, is our judgement still impaired by shipping?

 

anyone have the location of the thread where the fake ns fan got banned then created the ban naruto in us petition to frame us? its been so long ago I don't remember, but I'm tired of myself being demonized, and you all here being demonized.

Edited by ultranx, 13 July 2017 - 11:39 PM.

[Yyubie]

 

Who is "You guys?" Who are you addressing with that? 

 

There isn't any abuse occuring from Sasuke.

[Illnevergiveup3]

one cannot defend such a piece of kitten ending with all that happened, have Naruto who has been in love with Sakura-Chan, have Sakura-Chan go back to the Guy who abused her and then ignored the one who loved and made sure she was always happy when it was clear they was going to be together. Have Sasuke get almost everything that Naruto craved and worked his ass off for without getting so much as a punishment. Naruto's Hokage moment turning into "comedic relief." And everything else that happened and then still call themselves a NS fan or even a Naruto fan. I don't see how such an ending can be defended unless things went your way. (NH/SS.)

Edited by Illnevergiveup3, 14 July 2017 - 02:50 AM.

[Yyubie]

So far all he did is this :

 

[Shashank95]

So this Analyzer person is here claiming none of what happened between Sasuke and Sakura is abuse?
THAT is a dangerous mindset to have.

 

And for all your non-sensical talk about analyzing Naruto fairly, Pray tell how the fudge can you say you agree with the ending?
How can you sit there and say that SS hasn't been a relationship filled with abuse? How can you sit there and claim that NH is ok, when there has been a total of 3 on-panel interaction in the entire manga?

Coming in here, calling out people, telling us we're wrong. Just go back and read all the 4000+ pages of discussion here and you'll understand why we hate the ending. And why we don't like people who think they know better shoving the "ending is good" argument down our throats.

Edited by Shashank95, 14 July 2017 - 03:41 AM.

[Yojeveka]

So if we disagree with this crappy endgame, then it means we don't know how to read, right? C'mon, if NH had enough hints (from both sides and speaking of the manga), we wouldn't be so shocked and upset. Even JUNKO TAKEUCHI (Narutos' VA) was surprised when she saw The Last. It's okay if you liked the conclusion, but you have no right to come to a Narusaku Forum and tell us that "we're blinded", "we spent years reading incorrectly", "we missed something really important" or talk about our "lack of objetivity". Even if you're a NS shipper yourself, you have to keep in mind that we don't have to think like you and we definitely don't need to justify this lame ending.

 

The series we used to love was crushed and not just pairing wise. Is that so hard to believe without accusing us of being unfair with Kishimoto and SP? 

Edited by Yojeveka, 14 July 2017 - 04:51 AM.

[Shashank95]

Here's the thing, I have been reading a ton of your discussion for years. I never posted on the forums, was always content just reading. I stopped following for months after the ending (Doing anything Naruto mind after the ending), then floated back and quietly followed again. So I recognize the familiar arguments, the ones that make sense, were fair, and the ones that were emotionally charged, or exaggerated.

 

SS abuse is one of them. It's as false as NS abuse, in that Sakura's "hitting" is strictly comical, not meant to have the tone of abuse (Not saying its okay, mind, I'm saying its usage should not be taken seriously). While SS abuse is a different wrong altogether: Enemies can attack/kill/knock eachother out. Sakura was standing in Sasuke's way of what he wanted with the dark mindset he had in the instances people point out. Sakura was not dating or with Sasuke at all pre-699. She'd have gotten in the way of his fighting with Naruto, so Sasuke removed her, and in the arc where Sakura was prepared to kill him, she was about to kill him. But the sole point, ignoring everything I pointed out, was that Sakura and Sasuke were not together, they were not a couple, and abuse in the way we are defining it relates to couples/friends, which Sasuke and Sakura are not in the provided contexts.

 

I'm not the only NS person here who is claiming NH was okay, either. If you want to listen to a justification of NH, there are plenty of NH shippers who can do it better with I, without criticizing Hinata along the journey of it, which I would do. Granted, if you are asking me why and how NH makes sense, then I will go ahead and write it out.

 

Frankly though on NH: So many predicted it, even non NH, based on the clues that were there. If you missed it, you did not pay attention to those clues. If someone says: Hey, based on everything here, we're going to see a deer, and you say there will be no deer, and then you see a deer...and then you say: Well, the signs weren't enough, this was bad! ... you're not accepting something you need to accept.

Hypocritic much? 

There IS NO justification for NH being canon or their relationship being developed. As for SS, How can you call something a relationship when all there has been between the boy and the girl is each of them trying to kill each other?

Your thought process must be seriously messed up if you think SS is a healthy pairing. Even now, Sasuke is an absentee parent, glad to roam around the world "helping" the people and looking for "Redemption" while leaving his "Wife" and his "Daughter" alone for a decade or so. So yeah, please go ahead, preach about how NH is a good pairing, claim you are an NS fan who thinks the ending makes sense, go to the peak of fricking Mount fricking Everest and scream your lungs out saying SS is healthy.

But don't you dare come in here with that "I'm better than y'all attitude cause I'm a logical analyzer of the story" and call us idiots for not noticing something you probably think exists in the manga. Don't do that. 

I have friends who studied literary analysis in college who tell me Naruto and its storytelling is whack, that the pairings are shoddy ass-pull. So kindly, get your opinions out and keep the insults to yourself.

Edited by Shashank95, 14 July 2017 - 06:15 AM.

[Konoha'sCrimsonFox]

My God! I can't believe what this series has brought the worse out of its creators, supporters and former audience *facepalms*.

[Illnevergiveup3]

I've not called anyone idiots. But: If group A of Naruto fandom makes X amount of predictions about the stories direction as they read it, based on what they read and it comes true, and B of Naruto fandom makes X amount of predictions as they read it, and none of them come true, one would say group A had a better understanding of the story. Calling group A bad just seems silly.
 
Your friends should join this forum, as it would be refreshing to debate with those who have majored in Creative Writing, and can discuss it by actual creative analysis (By Plot, by theme, how this works, etc), rather than by pairing. Though I will add that it's more both art and creative analysis, as the Manga is drawn, and film analysis when it comes to the anime.
 
I've already explained why SS isn't abusive so won't circle with that. I've alerady explained that you can love NS and like the ending, and I am certainly not the sole NS fan who has done so, but I have yet to remark if NH is a good pairing, solely that it makes sense. Good is subjective, and I have avoided given my thoughts on that. 
 
 
 
 
 
 
I'd say mostly no, though former audience yes, particularly from ourselves. We did some hateful things after the ending I deeply regret. 

how exactly does a pairing with NO development make sense? How does it make sense when character A- Naruto showed Hinata almost no attention and his heart is set on Sakura-Chan? What about character B- Sakura-Chan who showed a lot of signs of falling for Naruto As well? How can NH make any sense whatsoever? Not to mention Naruto failed at EVERYTHING he set out to achieve.

Edited by Illnevergiveup3, 14 July 2017 - 03:15 PM.

[Honestly]

how exactly does a pairing with NO development make sense? How does it make sense when character A- Naruto showed Hinata almost no attention and his heart is set on Sakura-Chan? What about character B- Sakura-Chan who showed a lot of signs of falling for Naruto As well? How can NH make any sense whatsoever? Not to mention Naruto failed at EVERYTHING he set out to achieve.

you know what I don't get as well NH relationship is fillers how the hell can that make sense and Kishi even once said Sakura have feeling for Naruto

[Illnevergiveup3]

A pairing with no development does not make sense. However, NH is not a pairing with no development. It would not make sense if character A was devoted to character B and paid no attention to character C. However that is not the case, Character A does give acknowledgement and notice to character C, even if Character A is oblivious to character C's feelings. If Character B was falling for Character A as he had fallen for her, yet went to Character D, it would make no sense. However, Character B was not falling for character A, instead in love with Character D. 
 
Character A and C had development in the Manga. Not in massive quantities, but they do, enough to suggest that they would end together, and such makes sense.
 
Naruto set out to become Hokage, he achieved this.
Naruto set out to save Sasuke. He achieved this. 
Naruto united the nations together.
What did Naruto fail exactly? 

typing off my phone, so bear with any errors or short posts.

Character A(Naruto) and character C. Had NO development romanticwise, they barely had development friendship wise. Naruto knew about her feelings even after the Pein arc and he STILL went on to hug Sakura-Chan right in front of her, call Sakura-Chan his girlfriend right after the handholding scene. He cared nothing for Hinata's "feelings" for him. He cares little now even though they are "married."

Character B was so madly in love with character D(Sasuke), yet she was willing to kill character D for Character A, I'm guessing all of the scenes showing character B developing feelings for character A means nothing because of the crappy ending right? I'm guessing Kishi's own admission of character B loving character A means nothing right? I'm guessing the whole bench scene was supposed to amount to nothing regarding Character A and B? Right? I'm guessing the whole reason Naruto made the promise to her was because he shipped SS himself right? And not because he wants to make her happy and because he wants to win her heart over.

Character A has always been in love with character B. That has never changed. That never will change.

Naruto became Hokage, but couldn't even make it to his own inauguration. Didn't even become Hokage, Konohamaru took his place. I call that a failure.

He brought Sasuke back, yet Sasuke is STILL out there wandering and doesn't come back for years at a time. So what was the purpose of Naruto bringing him back just for him to wander again and leave the woman he was supposed to bring him back for? I call that a FAIL.

Naruto DID NOT bring the nations together. The war brought them together.

He lost the woman that he been fighting to get to Sasuke. Fail.

He did not achieve anything via hard work. Most of his abilities were given to him.

He fought to get out of a crappy life as a child just to go back into one as a adult.

He failed his mother.

I can go on and on. But like I said, I don't want to type for the next 9 hours.

Edited by Illnevergiveup3, 14 July 2017 - 06:13 PM.

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

A pairing with no development does not make sense. However, NH is not a pairing with no development. It would not make sense if character A was devoted to character B and paid no attention to character C. However that is not the case, Character A does give acknowledgement and notice to character C, even if Character A is oblivious to character C's feelings. If Character B was falling for Character A as he had fallen for her, yet went to Character D, it would make no sense. However, Character B was not falling for character A, instead in love with Character D. 

 

Character A and C had development in the Manga. Not in massive quantities, but they do, enough to suggest that they would end together, and such makes sense.

 

Naruto set out to become Hokage, he achieved this.

Naruto set out to save Sasuke. He achieved this. 

Naruto united the nations together.

What did Naruto fail exactly? 

Hinata only had around 30 chapters worth of appearances out of 699 chapters of the main story (with each of those appearances ranging from 30 to literally 200 chapters in-between), and out of those 30 or so chapters, she is barely ever in the same panel as Naruto, and a majority of the few times she is, she hardly speaks at all, much less to Naruto himself. She blushes, stutters, and faints, with Naruto having no clue whatsoever about why she does. There are literally only three moments where Hinata is more centered - the Chunin Exams, the confession, and the hand-holding. That's it. And as I mentioned before, none of those moments are revisited throughout the entire rest of the story and no romantic reciprocation from Naruto, so not only was there a severe lack of mutual romantic interaction, but a severe lack of interaction, period, thus there was nothing to suggest the two could possibly end up together - not unless you're someone who completely ignores everything except what little there was for you to extremely over-hype that "supported" your headcanon pairing.

With the Chunin Exams, it's not even about Hinata herself, much less any sort of romantic development between her and Naruto, but far more about Neji and the Hyuga Clan in general.

With the confession, it's already been pointed out how even Hinata herself admits that she was just being selfish. There's also the fact that it showed Hinata lacked faith in Naruto's ability to defeat Pein. Naruto told everyone else to stay out of it because he knew that they were no match for Pein and that, aside from already being injured and/or worn down from protecting Konoha, they would only get in the way if they tried to help and die in vain, just as Hinata herself proves when she is "killed". Now you may try and say something like, "Oh, but Naruto's angry reaction shows that he truly did care about Hinata!" The problem there is that it would require people to forget the type of character Naruto was back then - someone who saw everyone in Konoha as his "precious people" (but he always showed more special attention towards Sakura). It would not have mattered who was in Hinata's position; Naruto would have exploded in anger if they were "killed" in front of him like that.

Hinata's selfish action made Naruto himself lose hope in that he couldn't protect anyone because he was unable to do anything for someone (it had nothing to do with Hinata specifically) right in front of him. This is what drove him into such a low point in his mind that he was willing to release Kurama from the seal, essentially committing suicide, and that would have made everyone else's efforts in protecting Konoha pointless as Kurama would have destroyed what was left and then go on to endanger the entire shinobi world. It was ONLY die to convenient Minato seal hax that prevented Naruto from doing so.

Hinata's selfish action almost resulted in Naruto's death and almost doomed the entire shinobi world.

And the hand-holding? Neji's corpse wasn't even cold before Hinata was thinking about how "big and strong" Naruto's hand was, and again, Naruto was NOT holding it out of any sort of "special feelings" for Hinata, but simply to transfer Kurama's chakra.

As for Naruto's goals"

- Technically he didn't. Naruto's own brat kids ended up getting him knocked out, so Konohamaru had to take his place using Henge. And even then, it's not like Naruto truly earned the seat, but rather Kakashi was used a seat-warmer to simply hand off the title.

- The most that happened is that Sasuke is no longer trying to essentially destroy the world in a tantrum of vengeance. Sasuke still refuses to truly return to Konoha, despite now having a "wife" and "child" and both Naruto and Sasuke are now just cogs in the system they both swore to change.

- Naruto didn't do anything to unite the nations. It was the threat of Akatsuki and "Madara's" declaration of war against them that brought them together. And even then, uniting the nations wasn't a goal of Naruto's, it was everyone "understanding" each other that was the goal. Uniting countries does not automatically mean they understand each other.

 

[ultranx]

Hinata only had around 30 chapters worth of appearances out of 699 chapters of the main story (with each of those appearances ranging from 30 to literally 200 chapters in-between), and out of those 30 or so chapters, she is barely ever in the same panel as Naruto, and a majority of the few times she is, she hardly speaks at all, much less to Naruto himself. She blushes, stutters, and faints, with Naruto having no clue whatsoever about why she does. There are literally only three moments where Hinata is more centered - the Chunin Exams, the confession, and the hand-holding. That's it. And as I mentioned before, none of those moments are revisited throughout the entire rest of the story and no romantic reciprocation from Naruto, so not only was there a severe lack of mutual romantic interaction, but a severe lack of interaction, period, thus there was nothing to suggest the two could possibly end up together - not unless you're someone who completely ignores everything except what little there was for you to extremely over-hype that "supported" your headcanon pairing.

With the Chunin Exams, it's not even about Hinata herself, much less any sort of romantic development between her and Naruto, but far more about Neji and the Hyuga Clan in general.

With the confession, it's already been pointed out how even Hinata herself admits that she was just being selfish. There's also the fact that it showed Hinata lacked faith in Naruto's ability to defeat Pein. Naruto told everyone else to stay out of it because he knew that they were no match for Pein and that, aside from already being injured and/or worn down from protecting Konoha, they would only get in the way if they tried to help and die in vain, just as Hinata herself proves when she is "killed". Now you may try and say something like, "Oh, but Naruto's angry reaction shows that he truly did care about Hinata!" The problem there is that it would require people to forget the type of character Naruto was back then - someone who saw everyone in Konoha as his "precious people" (but he always showed more special attention towards Sakura). It would not have mattered who was in Hinata's position; Naruto would have exploded in anger if they were "killed" in front of him like that.

Hinata's selfish action made Naruto himself lose hope in that he couldn't protect anyone because he was unable to do anything for someone (it had nothing to do with Hinata specifically) right in front of him. This is what drove him into such a low point in his mind that he was willing to release Kurama from the seal, essentially committing suicide, and that would have made everyone else's efforts in protecting Konoha pointless as Kurama would have destroyed what was left and then go on to endanger the entire shinobi world. It was ONLY die to convenient Minato seal hax that prevented Naruto from doing so.

Hinata's selfish action almost resulted in Naruto's death and almost doomed the entire shinobi world.

And the hand-holding? Neji's corpse wasn't even cold before Hinata was thinking about how "big and strong" Naruto's hand was, and again, Naruto was NOT holding it out of any sort of "special feelings" for Hinata, but simply to transfer Kurama's chakra.

As for Naruto's goals"

- Technically he didn't. Naruto's own brat kids ended up getting him knocked out, so Konohamaru had to take his place using Henge. And even then, it's not like Naruto truly earned the seat, but rather Kakashi was used a seat-warmer to simply hand off the title.

- The most that happened is that Sasuke is no longer trying to essentially destroy the world in a tantrum of vengeance. Sasuke still refuses to truly return to Konoha, despite now having a "wife" and "child" and both Naruto and Sasuke are now just cogs in the system they both swore to change.

- Naruto didn't do anything to unite the nations. It was the threat of Akatsuki and "Madara's" declaration of war against them that brought them together. And even then, uniting the nations wasn't a goal of Naruto's, it was everyone "understanding" each other that was the goal. Uniting countries does not automatically mean they understand each other.

 

agreed 100%, heck, what happened to naruto never giving up? this is laughable, digimon xros wars understood the never giving up thing more than naruto, they have an opening all about it, here ya go, in eng subs:

 

 

this kinda thing is why I like anime, also the reason I disagreed with bestsasuhinasupporter about the sonic comparisons is they made it without knowing what the sonic series is about, THIS  is what the sonic series is about, this song represents it:

 

 

we are the sonic youth!! I don't know why people think just because they know of naruto, they know what every other series is about and their characters and can compare them willy nilly. me, I would research the series before I used them in a comparison with another series.

 

maybe we should lay off the negativity a bit and change the convo though? idk, don't want anyone getting in trouble.

Edited by ultranx, 14 July 2017 - 08:53 PM.

[ultranx]

Naruto never gave up, though.

 

I'm not sure where that statement is coming from.

.....sigh, please drop the conversation. can you just acknowledge we have different beliefs and accept it and move on? please? isn't that what the free internet is about, having different beliefs and accepting people having them while working together for a better future? that's what I believe at least. if you think naruto didn't give up, fine, that's your belief, but I felt of myself to be just like naruto and related to him more than any character and have the never give up attitude and still think he gave up. that's my belief. and you won't change my belief or anyone else's belief here. our beliefs, views, preferences, skills, everything individual about us is what makes us human.

Edited by ultranx, 14 July 2017 - 09:01 PM.