54213 replies to this topic

[Phantom_999]

I know this has been said to death now, but....

I really feel like all of this: The horrible plot points, the forced retcons, the horrible movies, the hate for Sakura, Sasuke, and Naruto, and so much other things would all have been avoided...if NaruSaku just became canon.

Even if the next generation stories were horrible.....a good portion of the problems with the story would have been wiped. Even with Kishimoto's bad writing or whoever does the story now,.

 

At least THEY wouldn't need a "retcon movie" to justify their romance!!!    

Edited by Phantom_999, 24 April 2017 - 07:02 PM.

[VanitasDS76491]

At least THEY wouldn't need a "retcon movie" to justify their romance!!!    

No cause like james said it's already their in the manga, plus that movie didn't justify anything for NH.

[Phantom_999]

Well like I said it's because that movie retconned like a kitten   ergo, "retcon movie" 

Edited by Phantom_999, 25 April 2017 - 12:49 AM.

[VanitasDS76491]

Well like I said it's because that movie retconned like a kitten   ergo, "retcon movie" 

Why even need to retcon the whole it was fine before that movie, besides retcons aren't really needed.

[Kagomaru]

I still find it funny how Kishimoto goes on about how Toriyama is his role model and how he's influenced his writing style and narrative when he wrote Naruto.  Yet Toriyama has stated more than once that he doesn't like writing demure and gentle girls like Hinata (he even went as far as to change Chichi's original personality to a more tomboyish one because he grew to dislike her depiction as a sweet girl in her first appearance in Dragon Ball), stating that he prefers writing women who are strong-willed.  I mean, can you imagine someone like Hinata keeping the likes of Goku, Vegeta or even Gohan in line the way Chichi, Bulma and Videl do?  

 

And even though Toriyama has admitted, like Kishimoto, that he sucks at writing romance,  he clearly does a superior job making the established relationships feel believable than Kishimoto does with his pairings. Where was your sensei's influence then, Kishimoto?  

Edited by Kagomaru, 25 April 2017 - 08:00 AM.

[T XD]

I still find it funny how Kishimoto goes on about how Toriyama is his role model and how he's influenced his writing style and narrative when he wrote Naruto.  Yet Toriyama has stated more than once that he doesn't like writing demure and gentle girls like Hinata (he even went as far as to change Chichi's original personality to a more tomboyish one because he grew to dislike her depiction as a sweet girl in her first appearance in Dragon Ball), stating that he prefers writing women who are strong-willed.  I mean, can you imagine someone like Hinata keeping the likes of Goku, Vegeta or even Gohan in line the way Chichi, Bulma and Videl do?  

 

And even though Toriyama has admitted, like Kishimoto, that he sucks at writing romance,  he clearly does a superior job making the established relationships feel believable than Kishimoto does with his pairings. Where was your sensei's influence then, Kishimoto?  

 

There was definitely an influence, but not Toriyama obviously. If it was Toriyama then things would be different.

 

We see he's on a specific path then in the middle of the War Arc there was some weakening happening in the plot and sometimes with the main characters. Then at the near end, the plot and the main characters went out of the line and hit the ground.

 

Thus, the only logic here is there was something or things behind this mess. An author can't get this inconsistent without acute reason/s.

 

In the future, any reader who reads this manga will have a big question mark atop of his / her head when they finish reading the whole Naruto story, if not before.

Edited by T XD, 25 April 2017 - 07:34 PM.

[Bail o' Lies]

I still find it funny how Kishimoto goes on about how Toriyama is his role model and how he's influenced his writing style and narrative when he wrote Naruto.  Yet Toriyama has stated more than once that he doesn't like writing demure and gentle girls like Hinata (he even went as far as to change Chichi's original personality to a more tomboyish one because he grew to dislike her depiction as a sweet girl in her first appearance in Dragon Ball), stating that he prefers writing women who are strong-willed.  I mean, can you imagine someone like Hinata keeping the likes of Goku, Vegeta or even Gohan in line the way Chichi, Bulma and Videl do?  

 

And even though Toriyama has admitted, like Kishimoto, that he sucks at writing romance,  he clearly does a superior job making the established relationships feel believable than Kishimoto does with his pairings. Where was your sensei's influence then, Kishimoto?  

When you actually look at Naruto neither did Kishimoto. Almost every girl in Naruto has more in common with Sakura then Hinata. Also despite Kishimoto constant lies, Sakura was the original love interest. Which means since Naruto was suppose to be like him when he was growing up Sakura was based on the type of girls he likes. Also he, his wife, Oda, and some interviewers have made comparisons between Sakura and His wife. Hinata under yahagi as the editor did not have any relevance or importance after the chunin exams.

 

It was the new editors and SP that loved her and convinced Kishimoto to focus more on her as well as eventually give up on Sakura. "For the Fans."

 

As for the romance thing, I thought he said he had no confidence in writing one (so he didn't for the longest time) but he did well once he actually tried (Gohan/Videl Krillin/18). Kishimoto always had a romance going on as a subplot, but once that fell through he in one of his lies said he was bad at writing romance to explain the changes.

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 25 April 2017 - 02:28 PM.

[rocci]

@kagomaru
I will not call chichi demure even when she first appear. When thing don't go her way, she become angry unlike Hinata.

@bail
That because team 7 is character templates. All boy will have naruto like quality, all dark boy will be like sasuke, and all girl would be like sakura. Including Hinata who pretty much naruto fan girl.

That's why a sakura clone is inevitable in the form of salad.

[Phantom_999]

Why even need to retcon the whole it was fine before that movie, besides retcons aren't really needed.

 

I was talking about NH My point is that even the pro NH fans (A.K.A Hinata fappers) at SP knew NH had NO DEVELOPMENT, that's why the movie even existed iN the first place. NS would never even need that movie NH fans can say all the BS that they want about how we embarrassed ourselves with NS parallels, but then I would ask them, "So tell me, If your OP DIDN'T happen and it WAS NaruSaku planned out, do you imagine that a movie would be needed to make them an official couple?  (Well of course these being the IRRATIONAL NH fans, they would miss the point of the question and just call me salty but whatever)

Edited by Phantom_999, 26 April 2017 - 12:09 AM.

[Illnevergiveup3]

Ok but I do Remember batman saying she absorbs sunlight more efficiently than he does it think it was the storyline in the superman/batman comic series and was made into a movie supermsn/batman apocalypse.
Try to think of what naruto would say to Darkseid like how you did with doomsday with the talk no justu and their ain't no way Darkseid will fall for that since he's evil incarnate.

I have to read that comic again, can't remember if it was canon or non canon, but both Clark and Kara herself has already stated that when it comes down to it, she's no match for Superman.

[Gravenimage]

When you actually look at Naruto neither did Kishimoto. Almost every girl in Naruto has more in common with Sakura then Hinata. Also despite Kishimoto constant lies, Sakura was the original love interest. Which means since Naruto was suppose to be like him when he was growing up Sakura was based on the type of girls he likes. Also he, his wife, Oda, and some interviewers have made comparisons between Sakura and His wife. Hinata under yahagi as the editor did not have any relevance or importance after the chunin exams.

 

It was the new editors and SP that loved her and convinced Kishimoto to focus more on her as well as eventually give up on Sakura. "For the Fans."

 

As for the romance thing, I thought he said he had no confidence in writing one (so he didn't for the longest time) but he did well once he actually tried (Gohan/Videl Krillin/18). Kishimoto always had a romance going on as a subplot, but once that fell through he in one of his lies said he was bad at writing romance to explain the changes.

 

Pretty much true. He also said that his manga isn't about romance, yet he made a NH movie WORSE than the Twilight Saga and the Fifty Shades of Grey saga and in his last interviews he keeps mentioning about NH this and NH that shoving the kitten fact down our throats as he was trying so hard to convince us that all along he was going for said pairing instead of the 15 year development that is NS. 

[VanitasDS76491]

I was talking about NH My point is that even the pro NH fans (A.K.A Hinata fappers) at SP knew NH had NO DEVELOPMENT, that's why the movie even existed iN the first place. NS would never even need that movie NH fans can say all the BS that they want about hpw we embarrassed ourselves with NS parallels, but then I would ask them, "So tell me, If your OP DIDN'T happen and it WAS NaruSaku planned out, do you imagine that a movie would be needed to make them an official couple?  (Well of course these being the IRRATIONAL NH fans, they would miss the point of the question and just call me salty but whatever)

Agreed you'd have a better chance at convincing a brick wall than a nh fan that won't listen.

[VanitasDS76491]

Pretty much true. He also said that his manga isn't about romance, yet he made a NH movie WORSE than the Twilight Saga and the Fifty Shades of Grey saga and in his last interviews he keeps mentioning about NH this and NH that shoving the kitten fact down our throats as he was trying so hard to convince us that all along he was going for said pairing instead of the 15 year development that is NS. 

Ya but then you look back at the series from the beginning and you don't see what he's preaching about. So he says one thing but his story says something else proving how bad a writer he is. Seriously I want some to go to a panel kishi is at and ask questions about stuff he said in the past and see what he says.

[Gravenimage]

Ya but then you look back at the series from the beginning and you don't see what he's preaching about. So he says one thing but his story says something else proving how bad a writer he is. Seriously I want some to go to a panel kishi is at and ask questions about stuff he said in the past and see what he says.

 

Yeah you know we should do an exercise and make a countdown of the times Kishimoto has contradicted himself. Let's see how many we can find.

[VanitasDS76491]

Yeah you know we should do an exercise and make a countdown of the times Kishimoto has contradicted himself. Let's see how many we can find.

That'd be a good idea.

[Branden]

Just to be sure, we weren't all wrong about NaruSaku were we? I mean obviously NaruHina is canon now but even that being the case it seems to me like NaruSaku was the original intention before things were changed at the very end.

 

There were the similarities between Jiraya/Tsunade and Naruto/Sakura, all the times when Naruto and Sakura were drawn to look just like Minato and Kushina, the comments from Kushina for Naruto to find someone like his mother. There's so much more that I could mention (but I won't for now) and it's for that reason that to this day I'm still not convinced that NaruHina is anywhere close to being as true to the story as NaruSaku would have been.

 

But maybe I was wrong. Maybe I missed something. What was the ultimate moment during the manga that should have made it clear to readers that Naruto was presumably in love with Hinata all along?

[TouKen4Life3g]

None. It's more of notifying in a last minute that NH could be canon, which it ended up doing so. That didn't stop the tease of other pairings that makes yuri/yaoi bait look incredible storytelling.

Edited by TouKen4Life3g, 02 May 2017 - 12:21 PM.

[rocci]

If NS is not a thing, there's no reason for them to invalidate it.

@branden
Thus anti NS can say whatever they want but one thing for sure, parallel is a goddam serious business in this manga.

[Bail o' Lies]

Pretty much true. He also said that his manga isn't about romance, yet he made a NH movie WORSE than the Twilight Saga and the Fifty Shades of Grey saga and in his last interviews he keeps mentioning about NH this and NH that shoving the kitten fact down our throats as he was trying so hard to convince us that all along he was going for said pairing instead of the 15 year development that is NS. 

That was in order to justify the retcon from NS to nH at the last second. Also he has to keep justifying that he was planing nH all along because that not the case in the manga or even the anime.

Agreed you'd have a better chance at convincing a brick wall than a nh fan that won't listen.

They actually only selectively reads a handful of his interviews, and anything they don't agree with they just claim that its a mis-translation by anti fans. Look at Naruto Wikipedia page haft the article now is trying to justify nH while only using that interview he had at comic con and one his interviews very close to the ending of the manga.

 

Ya but then you look back at the series from the beginning and you don't see what he's preaching about. So he says one thing but his story says something else proving how bad a writer he is. Seriously I want some to go to a panel kishi is at and ask questions about stuff he said in the past and see what he says.

I doubt he will ever come to the states again anytime soon.

 

Yeah you know we should do an exercise and make a countdown of the times Kishimoto has contradicted himself. Let's see how many we can find.

You would have to find all his interviews.

 

None. It's more of notifying in a last minute that NH could be canon, which it ended up doing so. That didn't stop the tease of other pairings that makes yuri/yaoi bait look incredible storytelling.

At least yuri and yaoi focus on the pairing they are going for. Naruto spends 15 years chasing after one guy (SNS), while having strong feelings for a girl (NS) that has feeling for the guy he's chasing (SS), then suddenly at the end he ends up with someone else (nH).

 

Just to be sure, we weren't all wrong about NaruSaku were we? I mean obviously NaruHina is canon now but even that being the case it seems to me like NaruSaku was the original intention before things were changed at the very end.

 

There were the similarities between Jiraya/Tsunade and Naruto/Sakura, all the times when Naruto and Sakura were drawn to look just like Minato and Kushina, the comments from Kushina for Naruto to find someone like his mother. There's so much more that I could mention (but I won't for now) and it's for that reason that to this day I'm still not convinced that NaruHina is anywhere close to being as true to the story as NaruSaku would have been.

 

But maybe I was wrong. Maybe I missed something. What was the ultimate moment during the manga that should have made it clear to readers that Naruto was presumably in love with Hinata all along?

You did not. Even the Junko said that nH did not exist before the last. That includes in the manga.

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 02 May 2017 - 01:31 PM.

[VanitasDS76491]

That was in order to justify the retcon from NS to nH at the last second. Also he has to keep justifying that he was planing nH all along because that not the case in the manga or even the anime.

They actually only selectively reads a handful of his interviews, and anything they don't agree with they just claim that its a mis-translation by anti fans. Look at Naruto Wikipedia page haft the article now is trying to justify nH while only using that interview he had at comic con and one his interviews very close to the ending of the manga.
 

I doubt he will ever come to the states again anytime soon.
 

You would have to find all his interviews.
 

At least yuri and yaoi focus on the pairing they are going for. Naruto spends 15 years chasing after one guy (SNS), while having strong feelings for a girl (NS) that has feeling for the guy he's chasing (SS), then suddenly at the end he ends up with someone else (nH).
 

You did not. Even the Junko said that nH did not exist before the last. That includes in the manga.

Wow that's sad when Naruto says nh was kitten.