9679 replies to this topic

[CloudMountainJuror]

Madara directed Sasuke's hate. Once Itachi was dead, he would have had no more direct target for his hate- other than Madara- who Itachi told Sasuke was involved in the massacre.

He had vaguely decided he hated Naruto, Sakura and Kakashi, but working with Taka had actually temporarily shifted that hatred away- we see he actually smiles when he sees the "Great Naruto Bridge" in the Land of Waves, and even as late as when Taka fights Bee, he has a fond flashback to learning teamwork in Team 7.

Madara directs Sasuke's hate to become someone that would treat the team he formed (that he had just shortly before valued enough to severely injure himself to save them -when they fought Bee) as tools to use, abandon and coldly mortally injure.

All Madara did to him was tell him the truth about Itachi. That's it. You claim that Madara "directed" Sasuke's hate, but you provide no hard evidence of that. Can you provide some specific examples of Madara "twisting" Sasuke's mind?

[catsi563]

your reading that too literally Zac.

he twisted Sasukes mind with the truth.

All he had to do was do exactly what he did. tell him itachis story and leave out details like his involvement and the kyubi incedent. With that it was like a fan with a fire. all he did was feed the embers of Sasukes hatred.

If madara hadnt taken him we can imagine Naruto and company getting hold of him and eventualy he learns the truth another way but in a fashion less hate filled.

Instead he got madaras version and thus madara is in control. Madara need only fan that hatred a little bit and Sasuke does the rest.

Sasuke is like a smart missile thats been fired, all madara has to do is make sure the target coordinates are fed in and that he keeps the laser desginator on the target.

[ciardha]

All Madara did to him was tell him the truth about Itachi. That's it. You claim that Madara "directed" Sasuke's hate, but you provide no hard evidence of that. Can you provide some specific examples of Madara "twisting" Sasuke's mind?

You stated it right there. That directed Sasuke's hate. Had he followed Itachi's words of warning about Madara, Sasuke could have very well not gone down this road- Itachi even warned Naruto that Sasuke is very gullible- very easily lead. (Naruto might be naive in some ways but he's not gullible like Sasuke.)

Yes, Sasuke ultimately made the choices and is a so stuck on vengeance that he's completely cold and psychotic. But Madara knew exactly what to say to get him there- while to Sasuke he appeared to be presenting him choices. And we know Madara distorted things, note how he left out Danzo was disgraced and forced to operate from the shadows- certainly because of the Uchiha massacre- remember he went directly against the Third's direction with dealing with the Uchiha. Disobeying an order that important from the Hokage and slaughtering a whole clan...Hiruzen was going to attempt negotiation.

Hiruzen was way too soft on Danzo and on Orochimaru and that caused nothing but greater tragedies, but Danzo's actions were awful enough with the massacre that Hiruzen did exact some punishment. Madara also lied to Sasuke about the Kyuubi attack on the night Naruto was born- slanting it in such a way that he could direct Sasuke's hate toward Konoha in general. Not just hate toward Danzo, Koharu and Homura but everyone in Konoha.

Edited by ciardha, 30 June 2011 - 06:16 AM.

[Nate River]

He didn't need to do anything further. Do you remember Sasuke's reaction and the look on his face when Madara told him about Itachi? He looked like he was completely mad. And Madara picked a perfect and vulnerable time to tell him. He'd just defeated Itachi, he had no time to overcome his hatred for him and see things more clearly, so all the hate and need for revenge just transfered.

Exactly. Madara didn't tell him about this history of the clan just because he thought Sasuke should know.

[Phantom_999]

UHHHH......... NO. He did it BECAUSE he wanted Sasuke to join him. Remember he said he had finally won Sasuke over. here:

http://www.mangaread...hapter-404.html

Edited by Phantom_999, 01 July 2011 - 12:30 AM.

[RedDelicious]

How would you guys feel if Sakura was the one that killed Sasuke instead of Naruto (got the question from a detail in a so-so fanfiction), if the dude can not be saved in anyway shape or form?

That's actually where I hope (but don't necessarily believe) the story will go.

Sasuke ignores Sakura, because he is arrogant, but also she is clearly outclassed in a direct fight.
Naruto beats Sasuke in an epic battle, but stops short of killing him.
Sasuke, being an ingrate and angry at Naruto's mercy, takes a cheap shot, that leaves Naruto at his mercy.
Sasuke is so focussed on taking out Naruto that he ignores Sakura rushing in to save Naruto.
Sakura leaves a very deep crater with Sasuke pieces at the bottom.
(He lives long enough to have various speeches with Naruto, though.)

[Strangelove]

I think it will go in another way

Sasuke fights with Naruto, and Sasuke defeats Naruto [1st round]

Naruto has the bijuu extracted

The Juubi smashes the planet in a form similar to a Monty Python movie.

[CloudMountainJuror]

That's actually where I hope (but don't necessarily believe) the story will go.

Sasuke ignores Sakura, because he is arrogant, but also she is clearly outclassed in a direct fight.
Naruto beats Sasuke in an epic battle, but stops short of killing him.
Sasuke, being an ingrate and angry at Naruto's mercy, takes a cheap shot, that leaves Naruto at his mercy.
Sasuke is so focussed on taking out Naruto that he ignores Sakura rushing in to save Naruto.
Sakura leaves a very deep crater with Sasuke pieces at the bottom.
(He lives long enough to have various speeches with Naruto, though.)

I'd like that to happen...

[bthug]

Yea but Im sure ppl would make a bogus excuse saying she did it out of love or some crap like that....Although I do see sasuke beating Naruto, but then Madara is about to kill Naruto and sasuke wants to be the one to kill Naruto, then sasuke and Madara fight sasuke loses and Madara duing the fight tells him a bunch of kitten about the uchiaha and tells sasuke how he used him then Naruto and sasuke will fight Madara and sasuke will die saving Naruto from one of Madara attacks.

[CloudMountainJuror]

Yea but Im sure ppl would make a bogus excuse saying she did it out of love or some crap like that....Although I do see sasuke beating Naruto, but then Madara is about to kill Naruto and sasuke wants to be the one to kill Naruto, then sasuke and Madara fight sasuke loses and Madara duing the fight tells him a bunch of kitten about the uchiaha and tells sasuke how he used him then Naruto and sasuke will fight Madara and sasuke will die saving Naruto from one of Madara attacks.

Agreed, the SasuSaku fans would claim that crap... And that's also likely to happen, but to be honest I myself would prefer that Sasuke died a villain. Probably not gonna happen, but it'd sure be nice.

[bthug]

Oh yea definitely I would love to see sasuke die as a villain, it would make a better ending at least more epic/climatic and I would love to see Naruto kick his sorry a$$, but theirs too many conflicting ideologies, cause Naruto wont kill him and he insists on saving him and we don't want to see Naruto fail.

[CloudMountainJuror]

Oh yea definitely I would love to see sasuke die as a villain, it would make a better ending at least more epic/climatic and I would love to see Naruto kick his sorry a$$, but theirs too many conflicting ideologies, cause Naruto wont kill him and he insists on saving him and we don't want to see Naruto fail.

I want to see Naruto fail when it comes to Sasuke... it'd be more realistic of an ending at least.

[Phantom_999]

Yeah but realism isn't found in shonen jump manga the hero always wins in a sense but I'm up for anything whatever happens just not SS or NH

[Fyuria'sLeo]

Agreed I want this to be realistic and all but its going to be one giant happy ending I can already see it.

[Darth Krypt]

You know what would make Naruto treat Sasuke as a full-fledged villain? Sasuke actually killing someone from Konoha. Most preferably Hinata. But seriously I would like Sasuke to be the main villain in the end. Maybe he will deal the killing blow on Madara while fighting Naruto claiming he knew Madara was the culprit for the Kyubi incident. Then Naruto will be left to fight Sasuke to the death.

[Fyuria'sLeo]

I agree it would be fun to see Naruto and Sasuke fight like that but its going to be as Nina Nee-chan said its most likely going to be a fairytale ending with Naruto having Sakura in his arms and Sasuke dead (I hope).

[Gravenimage]

You know what would make Naruto treat Sasuke as a full-fledged villain? Sasuke actually killing someone from Konoha. Most preferably Hinata. But seriously I would like Sasuke to be the main villain in the end. Maybe he will deal the killing blow on Madara while fighting Naruto claiming he knew Madara was the culprit for the Kyubi incident. Then Naruto will be left to fight Sasuke to the death.

Please don't give Kishi any ideas because he might do something like that and he might have Sasuke kill someone close to Naruto like Iruka (Hinata is not close to Naruto she's a minor character not to mention if she does die NH fans will start with the "NS became canon because Hinata is dead crap").

[Darth Krypt]

Please don't give Kishi any ideas because he might do something like that and he might have Sasuke kill someone close to Naruto like Iruka (Hinata is not close to Naruto she's a minor character not to mention if she does die NH fans will start with the "NS became canon because Hinata is dead crap").

I won't really care what they say as long as NS happens. Opinions from irrational people aren't worth troubling with. So you guys would rather he be a Darth Vader rather than a Lex Luthor? Personally I don't think Sasuke deserves Naruto's sympathy/help/whatever. He actually deserves to be a villain, not an anti-hero. So Kishi if you're reading this, make him kill someone and don't make him regret it!

Edited by Darth Krypt, 01 July 2011 - 12:21 PM.

[Nate River]

You know what would make Naruto treat Sasuke as a full-fledged villain? Sasuke actually killing someone from Konoha. Most preferably Hinata. But seriously I would like Sasuke to be the main villain in the end. Maybe he will deal the killing blow on Madara while fighting Naruto claiming he knew Madara was the culprit for the Kyubi incident. Then Naruto will be left to fight Sasuke to the death.

And that is why that will never happen.

It's no accident Sasuke has only killed no-name characters and villains or that he gets interrupted before he ever makes it to Konoha.

He is Darth Vader. The Lex Luthor of this series is Madara.

[Darth Krypt]

I used Lex Luthor reference according to the Smallville series where he was initially Superman's best friend but then turned into his arch-nemesis.