19964 replies to this topic

[T XD]

lee isn't over sakura
ino isn't over sasuke for a reason i can't understand,they weren't even friends
so odds are,hinata will never get over it unless they become canon

Lee isn't shown his interest in Sakura and Ino isn't shown her interest in Sasuke as much as Hinata is shown her interest in Naruto because Hinata is interested in the protagonist of the series, especially that the majority of her character is focused on this interest, which is why we won't get for Lee and Ino the same as Hinata will get. Then again, Kishi could simply let her interest in Naruto the same and won't change it

Edited by T XD, 14 September 2012 - 06:45 PM.

[Paptala]

lee isn't over sakura
ino isn't over sasuke for a reason i can't understand,they weren't even friends
so odds are,hinata will never get over it unless they become canon

Well, I always kind of thought that maybe Ino was crying because she knew how much Sasuke meant to Sakura, and as her friend, she was grieving for Sakura losing a teammate. After all, it wasn't too long before that scene that her team lost Asuma.

Even if she was crying over Sasuke, I think perhaps it could just be that she doesn't want any of the rookies to die, much less at their hands.

Once hinata sees Naruto and Sakura interact together she might get over him, but then hinata did see sakura hug naruto yet she still believes she can be with naruto.

Naruto didn't return the hug though - he was just shocked. So if Hinata took anything non-platonic from that scene (which I believe she did given her emphasized silence - the elipses in her speech bubble), it would have been proof that Sakura has feelings for Naruto beyond friendship, not proof that Naruto loves Sakura.

When has Hinata ever witnessed any Naruto>Sakura moment in the manga? There is simply no proof that Hinata is aware of Naruto's feelings for Sakura. It was assumed from the fact that she watched him all the time when they were younger, but I think that after joining teams (after which Naruto's crush for Sakura matured into actual love), Hinata really didn't get any more chances to observe him like she did before.

That would explain why we've never seen Hinata thinking about Naruto's feelings for Sakura ever.

Which is why I think observing a moment in which she can see Naruto demonstrating feelings for Sakura might be the thing to get her to realize her feelings for him will never be returned and let those feelings go.

Thank you. And nice sig.

Pretty much these feelings from all other characters will remain until the ending. I mean that will be crazy for Lee to hit on Sakura while she's married to Naruto, wouldn't it?

Thanks

Yep, the feelings of the others are probably going to remain until right near the end, when Kishi is ready to resolve his romance subplot once and for all.

[Nefertieh]

Interviews should always be taken with a grain of salt, even the ones that are officially translated and published in SJ. Kishi isn't going to give anything major away regarding the future plot of the manga (notice he's always been very vague and indirect with questions concerning what's still to come in the manga). Plus, with the translation there's always going to be meanings that aren't going to fully translate (or that won't translate well).

I would agree, although some aspects of his interviews are somewhat revealing. Before Tobi's real identity was announced, people were able to infer from one of Kishimoto's interviews that Obito and Madara knew each other in person, and were working together.

[Gravenimage]

Well I have a theory because my cousin knows a friend who is friend from one of Kishi's editors that Hinata is the ultimate villain and Naruto joins up with Sasuke, Madara and Obito to defeat her lol.

[candycane-chan]

I can totally see that /\ coming

[T XD]

Yep, the feelings of the others are probably going to remain until right near the end, when Kishi is ready to resolve his romance subplot once and for all.

My point on what i had said before Thank you

Well I have a theory because my cousin knows a friend who is friend from one of Kishi's editors that Hinata is the ultimate villain and Naruto joins up with Sasuke, Madara and Obito to defeat her lol.

I would like to make a collection on all the fake stories of this manga.... priceless collection.

Edited by T XD, 14 September 2012 - 07:30 PM.

[ultranx]

Kind of off topic but do you think this song would be good in a Naruto Opening maybe? It was a song used in commercials for the Mega Man Star Force games. Why is it video games get such epic music either in game or in advertising? As for my opinion, I think there's been way too much development between Naruto and Sakura for there to be an open ending so I'd be frustrated too.

Edited by ultranx, 14 September 2012 - 11:13 PM.

[Arachnia]

Yup and the granted for Hinata from Naruto in this moment, is the beginning of the process of closure to her interest for Naruto as we may going to see more moments of Hinata talking something about Naruto but they are slowly fading away, with her being understanding that Naruto doesn't feel that way about her like she does.
It's an option for her character to have this closure on the interest in the protagonist.

in what episodes you see that i watched 9 and i was like oke:P

[Transformers03]

After letting out some steam through some posts about some anti-NS arguments, I have finally cooled down. My problem now, though, is that I sometimes still see the occasional neutral fan claiming that it is obviously going to end with either NH or SS. For awhile I fail to empathized with that, maybe because I was bias with my own preference, even though I do try to see things through a neutral perspective (I really do). I once read comment that went something like this, "In my neutral perspective, of what I can tell Kishi usually focuses on Sasusaku...." I don't know who that person was, but I do believe he/she was neutral in that comment. For awhile I fail to understand how can that person fail to see some of the Narusaku moments.

That's until I remember reading this comment AWHILE back, "I think Narusaku will happen, because they have a lot more subtle moments together..." While I still question fans idea of what subtlety is at times (especially in the anime fandoms), I think I understand why people don't see Narusaku happening, and probably why some neutral fans look at us the same way we look at other pairing fandoms.

We (the fans) are not constantly reminded of Naruto's crush on Sakura, as we are with Sakura's crush on Sasuke in Part 1, and Hinata's crush on Naruto. So, at times, people don't believe Kishi gives in as much effort on that pairing than the others. But, in reality, he most likely puts the MOST effort onto that pairing. The only problem is that it is a lot more subtle than the other two (NH and SS), so when compared to those pairings sometimes fans really don't see it as much of a possibility.

Though I would argue that when Naruto's feelings for Sakura are being brought up, in both the anime and manga, it is usually done in a way that makes you sympathize with Naruto. Weren't people on this site felt sad when they watch the recap episodes that showed Naruto all upset seeing Sakura hugging Sasuke (which, according to some Anti-NS comments, shows Sasuke recuperating Sakura's feelings and that we deny that scene exist). Didn't we all feel bad that Naruto made the Promise of a Lifetime to Sakura to get Sasuke back, despite his own feelings for her. Hell, what other emotion could we feel other than feeling bad for him, when Naruto told Sai he can't tell how he feels about Sakura to her because he feels like he couldn't keep his promises. Hell again, sorry to bring up an anime filler, but if you are not suppose to be rooting for Naruto at the end of episode 235, where he said he will try to win Sakura over even though he would be alright if she chooses Sasuke over him, then you are not following the right set of moods.

It's those big moments, along with others, that I'm surprise so many fans fail to see. Also, for neutral fans who don't see the Narusaku moments, are only judging us (the NS fanbase) through, most likel or not, the pairing arguments. Which, to me, makes EVERYONE look bad...

[TouKen4Life3g]

After letting out some steam through some posts about some anti-NS arguments, I have finally cooled down. My problem now, though, is that I sometimes still see the occasional neutral fan claiming that it is obviously going to end with either NH or SS. For awhile I fail to empathized with that, maybe because I was bias with my own preference, even though I do try to see things through a neutral perspective (I really do). I once read comment that went something like this, "In my neutral perspective, of what I can tell Kishi usually focuses on Sasusaku...." I don't know who that person was, but I do believe he/she was neutral in that comment. For awhile I fail to understand how can that person fail to see some of the Narusaku moments.

That's until I remember reading this comment AWHILE back, "I think Narusaku will happen, because they have a lot more subtle moments together..." While I still question fans idea of what subtlety is at times (especially in the anime fandoms), I think I understand why people don't see Narusaku happening, and probably why some neutral fans look at us the same way we look at other pairing fandoms.

We (the fans) are not constantly reminded of Naruto's crush on Sakura, as we are with Sakura's crush on Sasuke in Part 1, and Hinata's crush on Naruto. So, at times, people don't believe Kishi gives in as much effort on that pairing than the others. But, in reality, he most likely puts the MOST effort onto that pairing. The only problem is that it is a lot more subtle than the other two (NH and SS), so when compared to those pairings sometimes fans really don't see it as much of a possibility.

Though I would argue that when Naruto's feelings for Sakura are being brought up, in both the anime and manga, it is usually done in a way that makes you sympathize with Naruto. Weren't people on this site felt sad when they watch the recap episodes that showed Naruto all upset seeing Sakura hugging Sasuke (which, according to some Anti-NS comments, shows Sasuke recuperating Sakura's feelings and that we deny that scene exist). Didn't we all feel bad that Naruto made the Promise of a Lifetime to Sakura to get Sasuke back, despite his own feelings for her. Hell, what other emotion could we feel other than feeling bad for him, when Naruto told Sai he can't tell how he feels about Sakura to her because he feels like he couldn't keep his promises. Hell again, sorry to bring up an anime filler, but if you are not suppose to be rooting for Naruto at the end of episode 235, where he said he will try to win Sakura over even though he would be alright if she chooses Sasuke over him, then you are not following the right set of moods.

It's those big moments, along with others, that I'm surprise so many fans fail to see. Also, for neutral fans who don't see the Narusaku moments, are only judging us (the NS fanbase) through, most likel or not, the pairing arguments. Which, to me, makes EVERYONE look bad...

Finally, something to do! Pretty quiet day today is.

Well you made a good point. The thing is we don't need Naruto to keep bringing up love, love, love. We don't need to see other main character (depends really) loving his love interest constantly. It only makes him look selfish in some degree. The reason why the part, "How can I? I couldn't keep the promise," was brought up was not to let us know that he still loves her, rather let us know why he hasn't made a move. Better yet, it only proves how serious he is about Sakura. We know how sad he felt when he came back to the hospital. Not only he failed to bring back his best friend/brother-like, but the girl he loves will be sad and that smile will be gone. That's why he prolong the promise as long as he can. It goes to show you how much he cares for her.

I for one happy that Naruto isn't only about love. It's about him working hard to earn respect and recognition. Naruto has the power to change people's feelings. For God sake, he changed Nagato before he dies. Normally, people would aim for the kill and Nagato already guessed it. But nope, Naruto is a much better than that. I bet Sakura was more happy that the fact he didn't go for the kill, rather he seeks peace. Remember, the slug did tell everyone what happened with him and Nagato.

I know it's been quiet on Naruto's front on love, but to me, I have no doubt he didn't change. The code to his character is locked and sealed. Even Kurama repeatedly says this. I hope the flashback goes by quick. It's going to be pretty quiet in here.

[Transformers03]

Finally, something to do! Pretty quiet day today is.

Well you made a good point. The thing is we don't need Naruto to keep bringing up love, love, love. We don't need to see other main character (depends really) loving his love interest constantly. It only makes him look selfish in some degree. The reason why the part, "How can I? I couldn't keep the promise," was brought up was not to let us know that he still loves her, rather let us know why he hasn't made a move. Better yet, it only proves how serious he is about Sakura. We know how sad he felt when he came back to the hospital. Not only he failed to bring back his best friend/brother-like, but the girl he loves will be sad and that smile will be gone. That's why he prolong the promise as long as he can. It goes to show you how much he cares for her.

I for one happy that Naruto isn't only about love. It's about him working hard to earn respect and recognition. Naruto has the power to change people's feelings. For God sake, he changed Nagato before he dies. Normally, people would aim for the kill and Nagato already guessed it. But nope, Naruto is a much better than that. I bet Sakura was more happy that the fact he didn't go for the kill, rather he seeks peace. Remember, the slug did tell everyone what happened with him and Nagato.

I know it's been quiet on Naruto's front on love, but to me, I have no doubt he didn't change. The code to his character is locked and sealed. Even Kurama repeatedly says this. I hope the flashback goes by quick. It's going to be pretty quiet in here.

Agree with you completely.

Now let me share a revelation I just came up with, of all the one-sided crushes, it has only been Naruto's crush on Sakura that we are SUPPOSE to genially be sad that it doesn't seem like she can recuperate those feelings. Thus Naruto is SUPPOSE to be the only one we are rooting for to get with the person he always loved.

What about Hinata and Sakura's crushes, you may ask. Think about it, when have we ever suppose to support Sakura and Hinata in getting with their respective crushes. Sakura's crush on Sasuke never felt like it was real, nor that did it seem like Sasuke was falling for her anyways (her hug to him at the hospital was does NOT count, because how is a blank expression on his face count as him showing feelings to Sakura). Not only that, but her crush made her come off as shallow and kind of annoying.

But what about Hinata, the shy little girl who always liked the boy who never gave up? That was it, that was her character, she was just the shy girl who always liked the boy who never gave up. When has she EVER tried to actually get with Naruto, she actually NEVER tried in the manga. Oh, what about the time she confessed her feelings to Naruto. She didn't do that to get with him, she did it because it was an all or nothing moment. Either Naruto was going to die (or get carried away), and she will never get to say what she really feels about him. OR, she goes in, confess to him, and try to save him, die trying if she had to. She wasn't trying to get with him, she just wanted to confess her feelings to him before it was to late, and possibly help in the process. But before that (and even little after that), Kishi never showed Hinata actually attempting to be with Naruto. She was just the shy side character, who so happens to have a crush on the main character. She was never like "Oh, this is how I'll make him notice/love me...", because she was to shy to do anything. It's only VERY recent that she has FINALLY got the stones to even PROCLAIM she will try to get with him, but it came out slightly selfish from her, which I said in a previous post was GOOD for her character, but it doesn't necessary make it look good pairing wise. It doesn't look good because compared to Naruto's crush (which, in most media, has shown to be most selfless crush of all the one-sided crushes), it doesn't seem like she deserves it as much as he does.

Yet all these Hinata/Naruhina fans keeping saying that they want Hinata to get what she wants, because she 'deserves' it. How does she deserve to get with someone that she has hardly seen interacting with, than the MAIN FREAKING CHARACTER who has done very selfless deeds to make sure the girl he likes is happy. Why would the author keep showing us the times that Naruto is upset about not being able to be with Sakura, if he plans to just have him get over with it and move on to a secondary character that he has not been shown to have romantic interest beforehand? We never saw Hinata get upset of not being with Naruto (proven by her smile at the hug at the end of the Pain arc), because she has never tried to make him fall in love with her. She just had her crush, a crush that she only is NOW going to try to take it to the next level. And if people on the NF debate forum think it's too late for Sakura to fall for Naruto (stupid-a$$ argument), then it's REALLY too late for Naruto to fall for Hinata.

If it seems like I'm trying to downgrade Hinata's character, or criticize her character, I'm honestly trying not to. Hinata is still a supporting character on the show, thus she does have a role to play in it. I also believe we are suppose to root for her, like her fight with Neji and her confession. But I don't think her role is just to be Naruto's girlfriend (unless, of course, she was his ONLY love interest), and don't think we are suppose to be rooting for her to get with him. I think we are suppose to want to see her gain confidence, do things on her own and have self-respect. By the looks of how we last saw her, it seems like she has already got it. I don't really see anything else she still needs to achieve, unless, of course, Kishi finds some other BS thing that needs to be resolve that didn't (Tsunade's last conversation with Dan comes to mind, and that scene will definitely seem useless if Tsunade does die).

An other thing that could happen is that Kishi does end the series with Naruhina....................I don't know what to say without making me seem like a d!@k to Naruhina fans. Besides, if I'm suppose to root for the shy character to get with the main character on basics of because she is the shy girl that needs to get with a man to feel........not shy, then I wouldn't follow that love story. If it was on the basics that she was the ONLY possible love interest, then maybe. Heck, it she was the most LIKELY to get with the main character, than maybe I'll follow that story. But it isn't, so I would rather follow the love story of a guy who'll do anything for the girl he likes, even if it means that he doesn't get with her. (God, that actually sounds to much like the end of episode 235, I should stop watching that filler)

[Paptala]

Great posts guys! I agree completely - Naruto doesn't need to keep bringing up his feelings for Sakura. The reader already knows that they are there, and Naruto has many other things that he needs to focus on as the main character of a shounen manga.

And I also agree that

• we are supposed to root for Naruto, the original underdog, over the side characters, to accomplish what he set out to do. Naruto's romantic feelings for Sakura have always been portrayed in a positive light, as far as I can recall, and also in a very sympathetic light.
• it's a good thing that Naruto's character isn't so completely focused on romantic love - that he has many other goals and likes; that is what makes a good character;
• when his love is brought up, it has been portrayed in a positive light - whether comically, sympathetically, selflessly, or heartwarmingly
• arguing that the main character's feelings trump side character's feelings (especially minor secondary character's such as Hinata) is a perfectly valid and logical argument

In relation to this, I found something on tumblr the other day that I recalled learning about in undergrad - the different types of love. I feel like this simultaneously explains why Sakura's feelings for Sasuke and Hinata's feelings for Naruto are so much more popular than Naruto's love for Sakura in the west, and why I feel NaruSaku is such an amazing relationship.



Sakura's love for Sasuke and Hinata's love for Naruto are very much eros passionate love - very intense, the focus of one's life, fear of rejection, a love that appears very suddenly

Sakura and Hianta have made big dramatic gestures in heat of the moment for their respective love interests (the FoD hug, both confessions, the summit, etc).

Naruto is obviously the focus of Hinata's life, since she literally revolves around her feelings for him (she's resolved everything else with her character apparently since it hasn't been brought back up again since part one). Sasuke used to be the focus of Sakura's life (see her introduction in part 3, and her confession to Sasuke - "I would do anything for you! I would feel just as alone as you if you left despite having friends and family! If you can't stay then take me with you!" etc.), but her character expanded gradually to the point where she is today.

This apparently is the kind of love that is popularized by Hollywood films, and would definitely explain then why SS and NH are so much more popular in the western fandom, and why neutrals in the western fandom might think that these two are the endgame even if they don't care much about pairings to begin with - because they are using western entertainment standards to judge by.

Meanwhile, I feel like what Naruto and Sakura have couldn't be closer to companionate love - the enduring, less dramatic, love that develops over time and is based on friendly affection and extensive familiarity.

Naruto's is closer to agape and Sakura's is closer to storge, though they both have aspects of each.

This is the kind of love that lasts in real life, and that perhaps is why so many other fans find it "boring". It's not the normal kind of love that is shown for a western audience; but to me, it has just the perfect blend of drama and light heartedness.

Edited by Paptala, 15 September 2012 - 03:34 AM.

[Transformers03]

Great posts guys! I agree completely - Naruto doesn't need to keep bringing up his feelings for Sakura. The reader already knows that they are there, and Naruto has many other things that he needs to focus on as the main character of a shounen manga.

And I also agree that
[list]
[*]we are supposed to root for Naruto, the original underdog, over the side characters, to accomplish what he set out to do. Naruto's romantic feelings for Sakura have always been portrayed in a positive light, as far as I can recall, and also in a very sympathetic light.
[*]it's a good thing that Naruto's character isn't so completely focused on romantic love - that he has many other goals and likes; that is what makes a good character;
[*]when his love is brought up, it has been portrayed in a positive light - whether comically, sympathetically, selflessly, or heartwarmingly
[*]arguing that the main character's feelings trump side character's feelings (especially minor secondary character's such as Hinata) is a perfectly valid and logical argument

Sakura's love for Sasuke and Hinata's love for Naruto are very much eros passionate love - very intense, the focus of one's life, fear of rejection, a love that appears very suddenly

Sakura and Hianta have made big dramatic gestures in heat of the moment for their respective love interests (the FoD hug, both confessions, the summit, etc).

Naruto is obviously the focus of Hinata's life, since she literally revolves around her feelings for him (she's resolved everything else with her character apparently since it hasn't been brought back up again since part one). Sasuke used to be the focus of Sakura's life (see her introduction in part 3, and her confession to Sasuke - "I would do anything for you! I would feel just as alone as you if you left despite having friends and family! If you can't stay then take me with you!" etc.), but her character expanded gradually to the point where she is today.

This apparently is the kind of love that is popularized by Hollywood films, and would definitely explain then why SS and NH are so much more popular in the western fandom, and why neutrals in the western fandom might think that these two are the endgame even if they don't care much about pairings to begin with - because they are using western entertainment standards to judge by.

Meanwhile, I feel like what Naruto and Sakura have couldn't be closer to companionate love - the enduring, less dramatic, love that develops over time and is based on friendly affection and extensive familiarity.

Naruto's is closer to agape and Sakura's is closer to storge, though they both have aspects of each.

This is the kind of love that lasts in real life, and that perhaps is why so many other fans find it "boring". It's not the normal kind of love that is shown for a western audience; but to me, it has just the perfect blend of drama and light heartedness.

I definitely agree with bolded part. However I don't generally like coming with real world examples or studies to support my pairing, as the real world isn't consistent. There is always examples of different types of relationships that work out, like my parents are complete opposites, yet they have been happily married for almost 28 years. While there maybe something consistent among all relationship that allow them to work (like some sort of compensation), my point is that any relationship can work.

BUT, because Naruto is a fictional world, we are able to predict what kind of relationships can work (or will work) if it matched with the theme and morals of what the author is trying to present. If we can similarities in Narusaku that matches with other canon pairings in the series, than that is most likely the authors intent. If Shikimaru's Dad says that women are soft around the men they love, and Sai points out that Sakura is gentle around Naruto, do you think that is just a coincidence? This is why the pairing arguments frustrate me, as we do come with points like these, yet they always disregard them.............That especially ticts me off in the NF debate thread..............

[TheMaskedManTOBI]

I definitely agree with bolded part. However I don't generally like coming with real world examples or studies to support my pairing, as the real world isn't consistent. There is always examples of different types of relationships that work out, like my parents are complete opposites, yet they have been happily married for almost 28 years. While there maybe something consistent among all relationship that allow them to work (like some sort of compensation), my point is that any relationship can work.

BUT, because Naruto is a fictional world, we are able to predict what kind of relationships can work (or will work) if it matched with the theme and morals of what the author is trying to present. If we can similarities in Narusaku that matches with other canon pairings in the series, than that is most likely the authors intent. If Shikimaru's Dad says that women are soft around the men they love, and Sai points out that Sakura is gentle around Naruto, do you think that is just a coincidence? This is why the pairing arguments frustrate me, as we do come with points like these, yet they always disregard them.............That especially ticts me off in the NF debate thread..............

I believe that both your comment and "Transformers03" comment is valid. Yours points out the literary aspects of how the relationship between Naruto and Sakura had developed over "the entirety" of the series, by Kishimoto using context clues like "Shikamaru's Dad's opinion on how women are soft to the men they love" parallelism between other characters (whether they're good or evil) and symbolism with the theme of the Heaven and Earth scrolls explanation scene that this site is named after. Transformer03 points out the realism Kishimoto trys to put within both the relationship and character development of Naruto and Sakura by giving the characters more "realistic" feelings, like storge and agape love.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Great posts from all of you.

It's like I said, the theme is very important to Naruto and Kishimoto. You should ask yourself: which pairing has little-to-no harm to the theme? I can explain it, but I have to sleep early for work. I can explain a lot, but the answer should be obvious. Btw, just to clear something: Sasuke waking up in the hospital was not focused at all. He was awake in full of shame, anger, and vengeance. Remember, he was still quiet when we see Sakura trying to feed him an apple. It's like a person just witness his/her parents' murdered, knocked out, then wake up but not really focused around you because of the image he/she just saw stained into the eyes. It's not like Sasuke was happy or anything, he was lost in mind because Itachi is back, Sasuke is still weak, and worst of all which did put him over the edge, he was more "interested" in Naruto, who he already developed envy.

So yeah, that's all I want to say for now. I leave that question for you guys to answer.

[Paptala]

I definitely agree with bolded part. However I don't generally like coming with real world examples or studies to support my pairing, as the real world isn't consistent. There is always examples of different types of relationships that work out, like my parents are complete opposites, yet they have been happily married for almost 28 years. While there maybe something consistent among all relationship that allow them to work (like some sort of compensation), my point is that any relationship can work.

BUT, because Naruto is a fictional world, we are able to predict what kind of relationships can work (or will work) if it matched with the theme and morals of what the author is trying to present. If we can similarities in Narusaku that matches with other canon pairings in the series, than that is most likely the authors intent. If Shikimaru's Dad says that women are soft around the men they love, and Sai points out that Sakura is gentle around Naruto, do you think that is just a coincidence? This is why the pairing arguments frustrate me, as we do come with points like these, yet they always disregard them.............That especially ticts me off in the NF debate thread..............

Oh I completely agree - I wasn't posting the types of love stuff in order to try and say why NaruSaku is most likely to become canon (that was just the first part of my post); rather, I posted it as a possible reason why NH and SS were so popular in the western fandom when NaruSaku has far more supporting it in the manga. I also posted it to discuss in general why I liked NaruSaku - which is that its a relatively realistic relationship, and it reflects a lot of qualities of what studies have shown successful and positive romantic relationships in the real world have.

I fully agree that relationships in mangas should be predicted according to what the manga has given us - one of those ways being comparing it to canon pairings or themes as you said.

The hypocrisy, double standards, and outright distortion or denial of manga facts (like saying Sakura wasn't flirting or showing any attraction to Naruto in 245) is exactly what made me walk away from the debate thread there in the first place. It's just a never ending circle that ends up frustrating you more than anything. Best to just stay out of those arguments, as they are not likely to go anywhere.

Great posts from all of you.

It's like I said, the theme is very important to Naruto and Kishimoto. You should ask yourself: which pairing has little-to-no harm to the theme? I can explain it, but I have to sleep early for work. I can explain a lot, but the answer should be obvious. Btw, just to clear something: Sasuke waking up in the hospital was not focused at all. He was awake in full of shame, anger, and vengeance. Remember, he was still quiet when we see Sakura trying to feed him an apple. It's like a person just witness his/her parents' murdered, knocked out, then wake up but not really focused around you because of the image he/she just saw stained into the eyes. It's not like Sasuke was happy or anything, he was lost in mind because Itachi is back, Sasuke is still weak, and worst of all which did put him over the edge, he was more "interested" in Naruto, who he already developed envy.

So yeah, that's all I want to say for now. I leave that question for you guys to answer.

Well, Naruto and Hinata's relationship is the least harmful, as Naruto and Sakura's definitely have more issues. But I feel like the issues in Naruto and Sakura's relationship stem from their desire to protect the other, so its not all that bad. Issues make a relationship more realistic and more interesting to readers, imo. Plus, it fits in much better with Kishi's main theme of bonds, in which he specifically stated that he wanted to show the struggles and complications.

And I fully agree about the hospital scene. Not only that, but the argument as I understand it is that because Naruto says "Sasuke...you..." before smiling sadly and walking out that he is actually seeing something beyond friendship from Naruto. Which is absurd, given that the anime clearly shows that Naruto was about to greet Sasuke from waking up from his coma, and then trailed off when he saw Sakura hugging Sasuke, and Naruto gives the same sad smile during the POAL. So its obvious that he's reacting to Sakura->Sasuke, and not Sasuke->Sakura.

If Naruto did see Sasuke->Sakura, pretty certain that Naruto would have brought that up against Sasuke at VOTE, or at least during the second reunion after Sasuke tried to kill her; but instead he just scolds him saying that Sakura is a member of team 7 too. Naruto has NEVER once implied, said, or thought that Sasuke has feelings for Sakura beyond friendship.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Well, Naruto and Hinata's relationship is the least harmful, as Naruto and Sakura's definitely have more issues. But I feel like the issues in Naruto and Sakura's relationship stem from their desire to protect the other, so its not all that bad. Issues make a relationship more realistic and more interesting to readers, imo. Plus, it fits in much better with Kishi's main theme of bonds, in which he specifically stated that he wanted to show the struggles and complications.

And I fully agree about the hospital scene. Not only that, but the argument as I understand it is that because Naruto says "Sasuke...you..." before smiling sadly and walking out that he is actually seeing something beyond friendship from Naruto. Which is absurd, given that the anime clearly shows that Naruto was about to greet Sasuke from waking up from his coma, and then trailed off when he saw Sakura hugging Sasuke, and Naruto gives the same sad smile during the POAL. So its obvious that he's reacting to Sakura->Sasuke, and not Sasuke->Sakura.

If Naruto did see Sasuke->Sakura, pretty certain that Naruto would have brought that up against Sasuke at VOTE, or at least during the second reunion after Sasuke tried to kill her; but instead he just scolds him saying that Sakura is a member of team 7 too. Naruto has NEVER once implied, said, or thought that Sasuke has feelings for Sakura beyond friendship.

Well, I was talking about the theme. Like NaruHina will damage Naruto's theme. But I will explain tomorrow. I got to sleep. But before I go, let me say I agree with you about the Sasuke's hospital scene. The thing is that Naruto was going to butt in with the team, but Sakura was all in it, so he didn't want to disturb at all. Let me ask you this: why does Kishi keeps saying, "Please support Naruto the protagonist?" Because we are here to root for him. Again, SasuSaku happens, the theme will be destroyed, Naruto is sad, and the manga will lose supporters, including me. Once again, ask yourself this: Why keep Naruto loving Sakura? If the other pairings were to become canon, why have Naruto remain loving Sakura? He knows she loves Sasuke, yet he's not giving up. Why? Because Kishi wants us to support him to win his love. We love the main protagonist to get the girl and clearly, he's working on it. He even said Naruto is close. Why say that? All answers from me will come tomorrow. I need to sleep.

[Transformers03]

Oh I completely agree - I wasn't posting the types of love stuff in order to try and say why NaruSaku is most likely to become canon (that was just the first part of my post); rather, I posted it as a possible reason why NH and SS were so popular in the western fandom when NaruSaku has far more supporting it in the manga. I also posted it to discuss in general why I liked NaruSaku - which is that its a relatively realistic relationship, and it reflects a lot of qualities of what studies have shown successful and positive romantic relationships in the real world have.

I fully agree that relationships in mangas should be predicted according to what the manga has given us - one of those ways being comparing it to canon pairings or themes as you said.

The hypocrisy, double standards, and outright distortion or denial of manga facts (like saying Sakura wasn't flirting or showing any attraction to Naruto in 245) is exactly what made me walk away from the debate thread there in the first place. It's just a never ending circle that ends up frustrating you more than anything. Best to just stay out of those arguments, as they are not likely to go anywhere.

Well, Naruto and Hinata's relationship is the least harmful, as Naruto and Sakura's definitely have more issues. But I feel like the issues in Naruto and Sakura's relationship stem from their desire to protect the other, so its not all that bad. Issues make a relationship more realistic and more interesting to readers, imo. Plus, it fits in much better with Kishi's main theme of bonds, in which he specifically stated that he wanted to show the struggles and complications.

And I fully agree about the hospital scene. Not only that, but the argument as I understand it is that because Naruto says "Sasuke...you..." before smiling sadly and walking out that he is actually seeing something beyond friendship from Naruto. Which is absurd, given that the anime clearly shows that Naruto was about to greet Sasuke from waking up from his coma, and then trailed off when he saw Sakura hugging Sasuke, and Naruto gives the same sad smile during the POAL. So its obvious that he's reacting to Sakura->Sasuke, and not Sasuke->Sakura.

If Naruto did see Sasuke->Sakura, pretty certain that Naruto would have brought that up against Sasuke at VOTE, or at least during the second reunion after Sasuke tried to kill her; but instead he just scolds him saying that Sakura is a member of team 7 too. Naruto has NEVER once implied, said, or thought that Sasuke has feelings for Sakura beyond friendship.

YEAH!

As for the whole pairing debates, has there ever been sites that had actual fair debates among it's community. I sometimes hear people who've been on this pairing subject for AWHILE now, and I always wonder if anyone was a part of a fair debate. One where everyone don't just call each other an idiot and desperate, rather than, well, actually debating with real facts and evidence.

Well, I was talking about the theme. Like NaruHina will damage Naruto's theme. But I will explain tomorrow. I got to sleep. But before I go, let me say I agree with you about the Sasuke's hospital scene. The thing is that Naruto was going to butt in with the team, but Sakura was all in it, so he didn't want to disturb at all. Let me ask you this: why does Kishi keeps saying, "Please support Naruto the protagonist?" Because we are here to root for him. Again, SasuSaku happens, the theme will be destroyed, Naruto is sad, and the manga will lose supporters, including me. Once again, ask yourself this: Why keep Naruto loving Sakura? If the other pairings were to become canon, why have Naruto remain loving Sakura? He knows she loves Sasuke, yet he's not giving up. Why? Because Kishi wants us to support him to win his love. We love the main protagonist to get the girl and clearly, he's working on it. He even said Naruto is close. Why say that? All answers from me will come tomorrow. I need to sleep.

I said something similar to this awhile ago. I believe Naruhina may have been possible at the end of Part 1, as long as Naruto's feelings for Sakura are never brought up again (at least not positively), and explore more with Naruto and Hinata's dynamic. That never happen in Part 2.

Edited by Transformers03, 15 September 2012 - 06:18 AM.

[T XD]

Great posts and completely agree.

in what episodes you see that i watched 9 and i was like oke:P

From the manga, if you remember when we were discussing about the moment where Naruto saves Sakura and Hinata, i was talking about Hinata's part of the moment and that it has a kind of a closure process for her feelings that has begun from this moment which will continue till near the end of the manga. Still, it could be that Kishi didn't took that choice and just decided to show us right near the end the resolution of the romance side of the side characters that has interest in the main characters.

[Konoha'sCrimsonFox]

I have a question. Do you guys believe when the fodder ninja gave Sakura a love letter and asked her out. She nicely rejected him by saying that she has someone. But the thing is that she either didn't say that she has someone on her mind or someone that she loves, meaning that she wants to be with this person, but it goes back to what she said, "I already have someone." The way she had spoken her speech was that she was addressing to the man that she's in a relationship with a person. But towards the end of their conversation, the fodder ninja said to her that her guy, which was shown as Sasuke in that one panel, must be a great guy. Sakura immediately started to have conflicted that's and possibility felt guilty about. I believe that Sakura was only just using the phrase that I have someone to reject the man nicely as an easy way out of situations like this with whatsoever not a single hint of Sasuke on her mind. What do you guys think because NH and SS don't believe this and they believe she was thinking about Sasuke the entire time lol.