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#43501 hinataiscreepy

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Posted 18 January 2017 - 03:39 PM

The thing with some readers of any shonen manga is that a character should be super strong and fight to be likeable and not useless.

 

This is one of the things that generate hatred. Whereas a character can be strong and helpful in other areas that help and are useful. Many protagonists aren't super powerful physically and they just act as supporters for the rest of the characters with their other strengths. For example, Kekkai Sensen ( Blood Blockade Battlefront ) and Black Butler. The protagonists are great.

 

Physical strength isn't a good thing solely. How the character act towards problems and what s/he gives for other characters is what comes first. They give solutions and these are greatly seen when it's the protagonist.

 

Sakura isn't a bad character at all. Some readers can't see past her beginning in Part 1 and / or romance.

 

You just summed up shonen fanbase in general.

 

Sady, even One Piece fans are not excluded from these issues.  You pretty summed up  the perception of Tashigi's character. 

 

 

 

Look at those comments. They only remember that she is weak and that's it. The male comments don't even bother to put themselves in her shoes and don't realize that sexism and Japanese women being secondary citizens are real issues. They only see the problem from their perspective of feminism in the US. No one mentions her redeeming qualities and the positive contributions she made to the plot and the main characters which honestly outweigh her character flaws. I find it appaling that fans only care about Smoker and seem to contribute the marine's positive influence on Alabasta only to him and blatantly ignores Tashigi's heroic acts and good decision making.


Edited by hinataiscreepy, 18 January 2017 - 05:08 PM.


#43502 T XD

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Posted 18 January 2017 - 08:44 PM

 

You just summed up shonen fanbase in general.

 

Sady, even One Piece fans are not excluded from these issues.  You pretty summed up  the perception of Tashigi's character. 

 

 

 

Look at those comments. They only remember that she is weak and that's it. The male comments don't even bother to put themselves in her shoes and don't realize that sexism and Japanese women being secondary citizens are real issues. They only see the problem from their perspective of feminism in the US. No one mentions her redeeming qualities and the positive contributions she made to the plot and the main characters which honestly outweigh her character flaws. I find it appaling that fans only care about Smoker and seem to contribute the marine's positive influence on Alabasta only to him and blatantly ignores Tashigi's heroic acts and good decision making.

There's also many that see at first those comments then follow what these comments say in negative way about a character and go with the flow; which they begin on seeing this character in a negative light. Especially if those that agree with those comments already don't like the character.

I think that how it happened with Sakura also with some readers.


Edited by T XD, 18 January 2017 - 08:48 PM.


#43503 Illnevergiveup3

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Posted 18 January 2017 - 09:15 PM

I don't believe in the ending. I believe we'll get the actual ending we deserve soon.

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#43504 VanitasDS76491

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Posted 19 January 2017 - 12:24 AM

I don't believe in the ending. I believe we'll get the actual ending we deserve soon.


I hope your right.

#43505 Konoha'sCrimsonFox

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Posted 19 January 2017 - 06:33 AM

I don't believe in the ending. I believe we'll get the actual ending we deserve soon.

 

Its a little of a long wait because its page by page  :sweat:


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#43506 Bail o' Lies

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Posted 19 January 2017 - 12:11 PM

Yeah, you're right. That's why I came to the conclusion that Sakura ended up taking the most crap simply because Naruto attracted a wider fanbase. It also didn't help that this fanbase has to be the most closed minded fan base I ever meet. The fact that people still call Sakura "abusive" makes me confused. It also makes me cringe when they say that Sakura herself was abusive towards Sasuke, out of all characters. 

A lot of you are talking about the same thing but I'll just quote and respond to this post.

 

If you look at most of nH fans you can tell that they didn't  see many of anime or have an understanding of their tropes, at the time of watching Naruto. Hell they barely watched most of the other anime that came to the states since: Dragonball, Rounin Kenshin, Spirit Detective, and many other had Tsudere as the love interest. Even some current anime on toonami have a Tsudere as the love interest.

 

Now the reason they fell in love with Hinata and why they are obsessed with moe characters is simple, they have never seen them before. Most media in the western world would be hanged to death if it portrayed any woman in a manner similar to Hinata. But Tsudere-like characters are very common in modern media despite anime fans in the US complaints about them. Now I keep mentioning it but why do nH fans hate one type of woman but love the other? Because Tsudere-like characters remind them of all the girls that either ignore them, reject them, or just want to be friends. While moe characters are their ideal woman that will love them unconditionally, worship the ground they walk on, and basically do what ever they say without complaint. So seeing a female that they have never seen anywhere else and fulfilled their desires to make sure they never get rejected by a woman, causing them to become obsess with hinata hoping that if she got Naruto they may find their own hinata.

 

Edit: Also once again because of the difference between how US media and Japanese media portray woman also had a effect on how they like the ending. In short once a girl get married in any in Japanese media it is expected that she quit her job and focus on being a house wife. Also she should get married as quickly as possible because a woman passed 25 is consider a Christmas cake (spinster) in Japan. While in the US It doesn't matter to woman in media if she is single, has one kid, or a dozen kids if kickass once she must always kickass. So while they are happy their pairing happened they are upset that being the hokage wife made her a housewife instead of into a badass (also they became enrage once she lost her huge breast). While in japan they were confused that nH and SS happened (and hoped for the best) they were fine with them becoming housewives.


Edited by Bail o' Lies, 19 January 2017 - 02:38 PM.


#43507 Illnevergiveup3

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Posted 19 January 2017 - 01:15 PM

 
Its a little of a long wait because its page by page  :sweat:

I wasn't really talking about the one you was showing us, but that will be a bonus to the real ending I know we will have.

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#43508 Phantom_999

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Posted 19 January 2017 - 07:34 PM

A lot of you are talking about the same thing but I'll just quote and respond to this post.

 

If you look at most of nH fans you can tell that they didn't  see many of anime or have an understanding of their tropes, at the time of watching Naruto. Hell they barely watched most of the other anime that came to the states since: Dragonball, Rounin Kenshin, Spirit Detective, and many other had Tsudere as the love interest. Even some current anime on toonami have a Tsudere as the love interest.

 

Now the reason they fell in love with Hinata and why they are obsessed with moe characters is simple, they have never seen them before. Most media in the western world would be hanged to death if it portrayed any woman in a manner similar to Hinata. But Tsudere-like characters are very common in modern media despite anime fans in the US complaints about them. Now I keep mentioning it but why do nH fans hate one type of woman but love the other? Because Tsudere-like characters remind them of all the girls that either ignore them, reject them, or just want to be friends. While moe characters are their ideal woman that will love them unconditionally, worship the ground they walk on, and basically do what ever they say without complaint. So seeing a female that they have never seen anywhere else and fulfilled their desires to make sure they never get rejected by a woman, causing them to become obsess with hinata hoping that if she got Naruto they may find their own hinata.

 

Edit: Also once again because of the difference between how US media and Japanese media portray woman also had a effect on how they like the ending. In short once a girl get married in any in Japanese media it is expected that she quit her job and focus on being a house wife. Also she should get married as quickly as possible because a woman passed 25 is consider a Christmas cake (spinster) in Japan. While in the US It doesn't matter to woman in media if she is single, has one kid, or a dozen kids if kickass once she must always kickass. So while they are happy their pairing happened they are upset that being the hokage wife made her a housewife instead of into a badass (also they became enrage once she lost her huge breast). While in japan they were confused that nH and SS happened (and hoped for the best) they were fine with them becoming housewives.

 

To sum it up, NH fans are mostly beta males and scorned women :ermm: with no real anime knowledge


Edited by Phantom_999, 19 January 2017 - 07:34 PM.

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#43509 Derock

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Posted 20 January 2017 - 04:36 AM

Refer to Moe-like characters, Hinata isn't a very successful one. Honestly she is the worst example of the trope.

 

When I think of moe characters, I'm thinking of characters like:

Examples of Moe characters

 

These are moe-like characters I can see many fans like (and probably fantasize) since they are either popular or nearly iconic for many people to recognize. I don't see the appeal of Hinata at all because she wasn't even an important character, didn't get any development (unfortunately that went to her design up until now) until Executive Meddling got involved at the very last minute which is a very stupid move. If they really wanted Hinata be that important to the entire Naruto franchise, they should've told Masashi way back during Part 1 to give her at least some appeal. But still, I wouldn't care, she isn't all that and she still isn't but the fandom, well, what's left of it, fail to see it since they complained or wanted Sakura off the main cast.


latest?cb=20140126021943

What's Happening with the Naruto series as of now!


#43510 VanitasDS76491

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Posted 20 January 2017 - 10:28 AM

Refer to Moe-like characters, Hinata isn't a very successful one. Honestly she is the worst example of the trope.
 
When I think of moe characters, I'm thinking of characters like:

Examples of Moe characters

 
These are moe-like characters I can see many fans like (and probably fantasize) since they are either popular or nearly iconic for many people to recognize. I don't see the appeal of Hinata at all because she wasn't even an important character, didn't get any development (unfortunately that went to her design up until now) until Executive Meddling got involved at the very last minute which is a very stupid move. If they really wanted Hinata be that important to the entire Naruto franchise, they should've told Masashi way back during Part 1 to give her at least some appeal. But still, I wouldn't care, she isn't all that and she still isn't but the fandom, well, what's left of it, fail to see it since they complained or wanted Sakura off the main cast.

What's a moe character?

#43511 Gravenimage

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Posted 20 January 2017 - 11:59 AM

What's a moe character?

 

 

A character consider cute and adorable anyone can't resist to love. As already shown by Derock another example of a moe character will be Ruby Rose from RWBY. 


Edited by Gravenimage, 20 January 2017 - 12:00 PM.

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#43512 Illnevergiveup3

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Posted 24 January 2017 - 03:04 AM

dad70283e3d4a50a2050e552442e7832.jpg

 

This particular scan, I was looking at it over and over again and noticed Sakura-Chan is really looking forward to that forehead kiss and it's kind of obvious that Sasuke never gave it to her. Add in Sarada being confused and that about shows that the forehead thing with Naruto needs to be resolved. She was probably wondering why he still didn't kiss it even though she believed he complimented it years ago. This reinforces the confidence I have in the real ending I believe we will get.


Edited by Illnevergiveup3, 24 January 2017 - 03:08 AM.

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#43513 Gravenimage

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Posted 24 January 2017 - 12:25 PM

dad70283e3d4a50a2050e552442e7832.jpg

 

This particular scan, I was looking at it over and over again and noticed Sakura-Chan is really looking forward to that forehead kiss and it's kind of obvious that Sasuke never gave it to her. Add in Sarada being confused and that about shows that the forehead thing with Naruto needs to be resolved. She was probably wondering why he still didn't kiss it even though she believed he complimented it years ago. This reinforces the confidence I have in the real ending I believe we will get.

 

Don't want to sound negative but what if its never resolve? Kishimoto gave up on this story ever since the ending of the Naruto manga and I highly doubt whoever is in charge of it will bother since they like the pairings the way they are now. Believe me I would like for nothing more for Naruto to just kiss Sakura's forehead and then kiss her lips in a passionate way but the damage has been done and I see them no need to give the pleasure to the NS fandom.


Edited by Gravenimage, 24 January 2017 - 12:32 PM.

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#43514 VanitasDS76491

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Posted 24 January 2017 - 12:29 PM

Don't want to sound negative but what if its never resolve? Kishimoto gave up on this story ever since the ending and I highly doubt whoever is in charge of it will bother since they like the pairings the way they are now. Believe me I would like for nothing more for Naruto to just kiss Sakura's forehead and then kiss her lips in a passionate way but the damage has been done and I see them no need to give the pleasure to the NS fandom.


I say he give up on the story back during the obito reveal or the forced kaguya thing.

#43515 Riverkid

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Posted 24 January 2017 - 12:31 PM

 

Don't want to sound negative but what if its never resolve? Kishimoto gave up on this story ever since the ending and I highly doubt whoever is in charge of it will bother since they like the pairings the way they are now. Believe me I would like for nothing more for Naruto to just kiss Sakura's forehead and then kiss her lips in a passionate way but the damage has been done and I see them no need to give the pleasure to the NS fandom.

 

atleast there are 100 more reasons to regret her dicison rather than to be happy about it



#43516 Gravenimage

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Posted 24 January 2017 - 12:36 PM

 

atleast there are 100 more reasons to regret her dicison rather than to be happy about it

 

And it saddens me that Sakura doesn't looked like she regrets ever getting together with Sasuke instead of "giving the free pass to Hinata" on Naruto. 


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#43517 VanitasDS76491

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Posted 24 January 2017 - 01:05 PM

And it saddens me that Sakura doesn't looked like she regrets ever getting together with Sasuke instead of "giving the free pass to Hinata" on Naruto.

She could be faking it for sarada, cause we know don't give a kitten about her or her daughter since he's leaving again for who knows how long.

#43518 Gravenimage

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Posted 24 January 2017 - 03:18 PM

She could be faking it for sarada, cause we know don't give a kitten about her or her daughter since he's leaving again for who knows how long.

 

I know. I'm not asking for Sakura to get together with Naruto at least a panel of her thinking her feelings for Naruto saying how much she loves him, that will be enough. But that's wishful thinking in my part like they would do that remember they have to keep showing NH and SS are the perfect pairings.  :roll:


Edited by Gravenimage, 24 January 2017 - 03:18 PM.

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#43519 Bail o' Lies

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Posted 24 January 2017 - 03:30 PM

Refer to Moe-like characters, Hinata isn't a very successful one. Honestly she is the worst example of the trope.

 

These are moe-like characters I can see many fans like (and probably fantasize) since they are either popular or nearly iconic for many people to recognize. I don't see the appeal of Hinata at all because she wasn't even an important character, didn't get any development (unfortunately that went to her design up until now) until Executive Meddling got involved at the very last minute which is a very stupid move. If they really wanted Hinata be that important to the entire Naruto franchise, they should've told Masashi way back during Part 1 to give her at least some appeal. But still, I wouldn't care, she isn't all that and she still isn't but the fandom, well, what's left of it, fail to see it since they complained or wanted Sakura off the main cast.

That is one of the reason she is huge in the states but not that big in Japan. In the States they never seen a moe character or at least not one to the extent of Hinata. So the beta males started to idolize her as their perfect woman. But for Japan? She so bland and forgettable even by the standards of a moe character. The only reason some of the people SP was obsessed with her was they are otaku who like moe and she had soo little personality that they could turn her into their own perfect moe girl for their inserts.

 

What's a moe character?

http://tvtropes.org/...ki.php/Main/Moe

 

A common definition is that Moe is the ability of a character to instill in the audience an irrational desire to adore them, hug them, protect them, comfort them, etc. To evoke a sort of Big Brother Instinct, in men and women.
Moe characters are, generally speaking, cute. Moe characters are implicitly youthful, congregating to high school age and below. Adult female characters who qualify are almost always in their low twenties. Any characters older than that have this fact unmentioned, or the character's appearance is altered as little as possible regardless of the actual time that has passed. Moe characters often take many characteristics, tropes and forms of appearance from the Bishoujo genre.
Their personality will reflect an "innocent" outlook on something vital, such as about romance. A related implication is that moe characters are virgins, though mostly in Japan, where virginity and purity still remains important to a girl's appeal.
The classical Moe character is highly associated with innocence, shyness, humility, submission, helplessness and woobie characteristics (e.g., Fragile Flower, Shrinking Violet, Extreme Doormat, Dojikko, The Ingenue, the Healing-type genre, etc., usually drawn with Tareme Eyes), although this does not need to be always the case. In many other, more modern variations, there is also a trend towards more upbeat and extroverted personalities that are far more unique, noticeable and recognizable (such as the Manic Pixie Dream Girl, and the more benign variants of Tsundere) although these variants do have a risk of getting kinda annoying or tasting like diabetes. Other contributions to uniqueness can also come in the form of quirks, reliance on Costume Exaggeration, odd language, strange hobbies and the like. Occasionally, these quirks are completely unrelated and seem a bit disjointed.
If a character is plain, they are "loudly plain" in the way Hollywood Homely characters are "ugly"; sometimes they're just more moderate than the rest of the cast, and the writers implicitly suggest the audience is kind for liking the character for being plain.
 

 

I say he give up on the story back during the obito reveal or the forced kaguya thing.

The Kaguya part because that's when he had to follow what they were planning in the last.

 

Don't want to sound negative but what if its never resolve? Kishimoto gave up on this story ever since the ending of the Naruto manga and I highly doubt whoever is in charge of it will bother since they like the pairings the way they are now. Believe me I would like for nothing more for Naruto to just kiss Sakura's forehead and then kiss her lips in a passionate way but the damage has been done and I see them no need to give the pleasure to the NS fandom.

Pretty much. He really just wants to leave and go work on his next manga in Yahagi's magazine. But SJ won't let him because they worry that if he left Boruto it would collapse. So he is stuck in limbo as the "Editor and creator" of Boruto while he would rather be doing anything else.


Edited by Bail o' Lies, 24 January 2017 - 03:31 PM.


#43520 Gravenimage

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Posted 24 January 2017 - 09:31 PM

Ball O Lies@ that is true if Kishimoto does leave SJ Boruto will die and what does he has to lose? He already have plenty of money in for killing his manga following their demands for the perfect pairings. If he wants to work on his new manga for Yahagi then he should just quit SJ and be done with it already. Honestly he will be doing the Naruto fans a big favor if he leaves and if Boruto crashes and burn I'm pretty sure everyone wants to see this series die a slow and painful death, or maybe its just me? :shrug:


Edited by Gravenimage, 24 January 2017 - 09:34 PM.

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