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The NEW NaruSaku Debate Thread


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#42221 Catra

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Posted 24 December 2015 - 01:31 PM

when hashbrowns killed madara, that is when i believe he became truly stern. i didn't like how happy go lucky HAHAH he was, how sensitive he was like some big teddy bear underneath, pretty exaggerated and quite pathetic when he bowed and cried during the five kage meeting. 

 

as for tob's, when you think about it, labeling him as the one who invented edo tensei was a very stupid move. as was the FTG, it just screamed unoriginality. Kish knew he wouldn't be able to do much with just water so he later gave him space/time jutsu.

 

hiruzen.....*sigh* they took a dump on him.

 

minato, some people call him a marty stu but, he still died and isn't in the story much. i didn't like how he's given sage mode though.


Edited by Catra, 24 December 2015 - 01:32 PM.


#42222 VanitasDS76491

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Posted 24 December 2015 - 01:33 PM

Yes both naruto and hiruzen are stupid, they just think about themself, why hiruzen can't kill orochimaru?? just because he is his most favorite student?? that's just so selfish, he doesn't think what would happen in the future the possibility of him attacking the village keep doing inhuman experiment countless people will die, he can't kill orochimaru just because only think about his feelings.

Same goes with naruto.

 

Personal feelings should never interfere law and judgement.

Hashirama is the best hokage, no matter who they are even if his own family, if they harm the village they must be punish, look at hiruzen and naruto. Just because orochimaru is his favorite student and sasuke is his best friend they both goes free. Can you believe that!!??

Wasn't that one of the things the Jedi warned in Star Wars about Personal Feelings yes you can have personal feelings for someone but there's a line that has to be drawn. Also Hiruzen was one of the one responsible for all the people Orochimaru killed and was one of the reason Sasuke turned to Orochimaru.  



#42223 rocci

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Posted 24 December 2015 - 01:37 PM

@catra
Hashi is op. He's basically successful version of naruto, complete with his gay feeling toward hashirama.

Tobi is buff version of minato.

Hiruzen is buff version of kakashi.

Minato is garytsu, but weak as kitten to the point that kishi need to buff him unnecessary. How could he master Kyubi mode when he never become a jinchuriki in the first place.

#42224 VanitasDS76491

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Posted 24 December 2015 - 01:52 PM

That's fine as long as there are consequences (depending on who and the situation and whatnot).

If the person isn't THAT bad, then sure, not killing them is just fine and the results of not doing so most likely won't be bad at all, but when it comes to people like Orochimaru, Nagato, Obito, Sasuke, and others who were more than willing to kill countless innocents without care just to achieve their own selfish goals (regardless of sob stories), then that's a completely different story. There needs to be a balance of idealism and realism and, unfortunately, Naruto is really 99.9% idealism compared to ones like Hashirama, Hiruzen, Jiraiya, and Minato (Tobirama was much more realism than idealism) who, while they themselves wished for "true peace", they also knew that it was not something that could be achieved easily, much less without shedding any blood whatsoever, no matter how much they may wish or try otherwise. It's why Naruto's "achievement of 'true peace'" by the end feels so hollow; it doesn't really feel like he truly had to make any sacrifices to earn it (at least any that showed any real visible impact by that point). Much like a bunch of his power-ups, it was largely just handed to him by having others magically conform to his views and such.

Things like Konoha's destruction and Ay's refusal to not kill Sasuke when Naruto pathetically begged him could have been moments of realism slapping Naruto in the face and make him grow up a bit and see the world in a more mature view (not necessarily jaded), but again, things were cheapened so he didn't have to like Nagato using Rinne Tensei to revive everyone and Ay just magically coming around during the war.

I wished there were consequences in Naruto but there aren't you know at least Fairy Tail gave consequences to those who had them coming like Jellal one of my favorite characters. Actually Ay is one of my favorite Kages cause he actually was going to do something about Sasuke sure it took longer then it should have, also Ay refusal to not kill Sasuke made me like cause Naruto's TNJ didn't work or cause Ay knows the lives of everyone in the world are more important than one rouge traitor that Naruto and the leaf village go. Also Naruto said that he didn't want a war between leaf and cloud if Sasuke were killed but a don't see how Sasuke dying would star a war if anything it wouldn't since no one cares about a rouge ninja or it's just another moment of Naruto being a dumbass aside from being the most irresponsible manga hero ever.



#42225 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 24 December 2015 - 01:57 PM

Your best bet on protagonist killing is samurai based and someone who believes old school trend.

#42226 VanitasDS76491

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Posted 24 December 2015 - 01:58 PM

Yeah, it's like, in his (Kishi's or Naruto's) mind, "not killing" and "forgiveness" somehow always go hand in hand, so if Naruto chooses to forgive people like Nagato, Obito, Sasuke, etc., then that somehow means he's not allowed to kill them it seems like.

It's also why the Talk no Jutsu was so stupid half the time, especially when used on ones like Nagato or Obito. Nagato was a true, unfortunate victim of war and has seen the devastation first hand while also experiencing such treachery like by Hanzo and Danzo that resulted in his best friend's death, and then proceeded to spend decades completely entrenched in his beliefs, never questioning his actions, always seeing them as justified....until Naruto comes along...despite the fact that Jiraiya himself had tried to convince him otherwise....one pretty little speech from Naruto and Nagato is suddenly willing to just drop and forget it all just like that....and the only way the TnJ even has the slightest possibility of working is because a majority of Naruto's main antagonists have been "Naruto gone wrong" foils, all in hopes that the reader (and Naruto) would automatically sympathize with them and not want them killed (at least not as a result of a mere fight).

Any other time, you notice it's almost the opposite. Look at the enemies in the movies, for example, who aren't such foils. Naruto doesn't seem to have any qualms with killing them, and seems to even lack a lot of the helpful enthusiasm he has at other times. Like in the first movie (Land of Snow), he's actually a bit of a jerk to Koyuki much of the time and not looking eager to help her at all. Heck, when Koyuki asks him why he's always finding her and bringing her back (after bringing her back the 2nd time shortly before encountering the train, IIRC), he even merely says that it's his mission...that's it...not because he felt she was wrong for running away and should face her fears and not because he wanted to help the people of the land get out of Doto's hold, but simply because it's his mission...it's an obligation that he would avoid if he could have.

I want to see Naruto that TNJ on other villains and Fail with villains who are complete monsters, like The Joker, Darkseid, Thanos, Freeza, Cell, Beerus, Terminator , Galactus, Ra's Al Ghul, Red Skull, Loki, Apocalypse, Yhwach, Aizen, Grimmjow, Ragyo, Doomsday, Zod, Sinestro, the Anti-Montior, Freedy, Jason, Michael Myers, Kefka, Sephiroth, Garland, The Emperor form Final Fantasy II and Star Wars, Weseker, Let me know if a missed any.



#42227 VanitasDS76491

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Posted 24 December 2015 - 02:05 PM

He still killed him.

It's like saying Sasuke killed Deidara, Itachi, and Danzo when he didn't. Deidara and Danzo killed themselves to take Sasuke with them and not to lose to him like how Raygo destroyed her heart at the end of Kill La Kill to not lose to Ryuko and Satsuki. And no Sasuke did not kill Itachi he was already dead he was just prolonging his life. Also how can Sasuke beat Naruto who has the second strongest beast if we count the dumbass ten-tails, but he can't beat Garra even when garra didn't have a tailed-beast anymore and he couldn't beat Killer Bee so something's up with this, unless Kishi was keeping him alive for his final kitten fight with Naruto and just seems like both bad and lazy writing. I mean seriously how many times had been almost killed and saved by a kitten Mcguffin at the last moment.  



#42228 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 24 December 2015 - 02:10 PM

All I know is that the family of those Samurai are going to be the next villain because of bs justice system allowed Sasuke scout-free.

#42229 rocci

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Posted 24 December 2015 - 02:26 PM

Your best bet on protagonist killing is samurai based and someone who believes old school trend.

If it in seinen or anti hero character, yeah I believe so.

#42230 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 24 December 2015 - 02:28 PM

If it in seinen or anti hero character, yeah I believe so.

Well, I'm only referring to Shounen, or rather WSJ.

#42231 rocci

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Posted 24 December 2015 - 02:33 PM

Well, I'm only referring to Shounen, or rather WSJ.

Gintama?
Did he kill somebody or will do it?

#42232 Liu bie

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Posted 24 December 2015 - 02:34 PM

Some Narusaku for Christmas:

tumblr_nzv8ipDamQ1tstmf5o1_500.png

There is more:

 

http://narusakufacto...クリスマス

 

Post By: Narusaku Factory.


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#42233 rocci

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Posted 24 December 2015 - 02:36 PM

I always like sakura pink colour hair.

#42234 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 24 December 2015 - 02:39 PM

Gintama?
Did he kill somebody or will do it?

In the past and present, he has been doing so a lot already. The only ones that haven't would be his family, glasses and Kagura. If i recall correctly...

#42235 Liu bie

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Posted 24 December 2015 - 02:48 PM

Gintama?
Did he kill somebody or will do it?

Same, Seiya has killed a shonen character.


Edited by Liu bie, 24 December 2015 - 02:49 PM.

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#42236 rocci

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Posted 24 December 2015 - 02:48 PM

In the past and present, he has been doing so a lot already. The only ones that haven't would be his family, glasses and Kagura. If i recall correctly...

Past doesn't count. Kind of like Kenshin.
Who does he kill in the present?
That glass dude doesn't kill, kind of like armin.

#42237 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 24 December 2015 - 03:04 PM

Past doesn't count. Kind of like Kenshin.
Who does he kill in the present?
That glass dude doesn't kill, kind of like armin.

Bunch of strong minions, mainly in Four Devas Arc, what a blood bath, Ninzou, Hosen, and so on. Well, I guess you can try to argue about not killing human, but then Naraku clan happened so nope.

What I like about Gintama is the realistic sense of Gintoki of not killing them if they are already fallen so deep (Jiraia), but if it gets serious, it's kill or be killed situation, which he will do it. That's why if this series ends, I'm going to lose the last remaining series that kills because kitten happens. I don't mind OP though, I like it how it's done. Naruto took the TnJ element too far. It was ok back then, but then it just got borderline unrealistic, even for a fictional world.

#42238 rocci

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Posted 24 December 2015 - 03:16 PM

Bunch of strong minions, mainly in Four Devas Arc, what a blood bath, Ninzou, Hosen, and so on. Well, I guess you can try to argue about not killing human, but then Naraku clan happened so nope.

What I like about Gintama is the realistic sense of Gintoki of not killing them if they are already fallen so deep (Jiraia), but if it gets serious, it's kill or be killed situation, which he will do it. That's why if this series ends, I'm going to lose the last remaining series that kills because kitten happens. I don't mind OP though, I like it how it's done. Naruto took the TnJ element too far. It was ok back then, but then it just got borderline unrealistic, even for a fictional world.

Did he kill jiraiya? I watch & read but I forget the detail. What I remember is the scene when gintama teacher piggy back him, that's a really touching scene.

#42239 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 24 December 2015 - 03:22 PM

Did he kill jiraiya? I watch & read but I forget the detail. What I remember is the scene when gintama teacher piggy back him, that's a really touching scene.

No. Tsukyo did. He just brutally beat the hell out of him. It was insane, first moment that scared me seeing him.

#42240 Nostradamus

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Posted 24 December 2015 - 05:27 PM

Your friend.

Living sacrifice, it work like edo tensei. It's a puppet after all.
If he truly killed him, than kishi doesn't need to make kakashi kill kakuzu.
That scene intend to make naruto free from kill count.

Ok then if you're ever in that situation in a courtroom. Try to use that as your defense and see what happens.

 

Also key word "living". I know you still want to believe that Naruto never killed. But he does have kills under his belt.

It's not intentional. But a kill is a kill.


                         CZSn9hA.jpg
 
Which I've told you - time and time again - is dangerous! There will never be consensus, son, among those you have helped to ascend. They will all differ in their views of what it means to be free. The peace you so desperately seek does not exist.
 
These men are united now by a common cause. But when this battle is finished they will fall to fighting amongst themselves about how best to ensure control. In time it will lead to war. You will see.





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