54216 replies to this topic

[Nostradamus]

Yes. Kishi is just a bad writer. Sometimes the only cure for bad guy is death, sometimes its either you or him/her, otherwise you will die or they will just keep hurting other people.
It takes time to save a bad guy and redeem them, it takes days ... but each days passing that bad guy just keep killing and hurting other people, imagine after 1 year you finally able to save and redeem that guy from the darkness, but at what cost ?? thousands already falls victim. Is that really worth it?? for just 1 guy?? . If you just kill him fast then nobody gets hurt or at least reduce the amount of victims. Trying to save Obito and yes naruto did success but at what cost ?? Minato, Kushina, Jiraya, Nagato, Yahiko, Conan and thousands of other people lives?? for just 1 kittening uchina guy???

And this is why I liked what Hashirama did with Madara, in their last battle.

[Yyubie]

And this is why I liked what Hashirama did with Madara, in their last battle.

Yes, he clearly said that he will never forgive anyone who trying to hard the village, even if that is his own brother, son, or family. Even in the manga kishi portray him in dark way, what hashirama did was actually the right thing. While most people will beg and cover the people who are precious to them even though that person commit a lot of crime, Hashirama clearly state if they are guilty then they must be punished no matter who they are even if they are his own family.

 

AND VIOLA ...... Sasuke SAMA goes free without any punishment!!

[Nostradamus]

Yes, he clearly said that he will never forgive anyone who trying to hard the village, even if that is his own brother, son, or family. Even in the manga kishi portray him in dark way, what hashirama did was actually the right thing. While most people will beg and cover the people who are precious to them even though that person commit a lot of crime, Hashirama clearly state if they are guilty then they must be punished no matter who they are even if they are his own family.

 

AND VIOLA ...... Sasuke SAMA goes free without any punishment!!

And another thing that I actually liked about Hashirama. The fact that we saw the friendship, the bond between Hashirama and Madara. We saw how it started, we saw how it developed, we saw friendship, we saw conflict, and we saw how it ended.

All within a span of what was it? About 15 chapter if I remember correctly. Maybe even shorter than that.

But we never saw any of that in the bond that was shoved down our throats for 698 chapters. The famous bond between Naruto and Sasuke.

We saw about 3 times that scene when little Sasuke was standing on the edge of the lake and Naruto walking past him while the two of them looked angry at each other, then as the two lovers parted ways, we see both of them smiling for no reason.

And we're supposed to believe that this is the strongest and most developed bond and friendship in the entire world. Such development. Give me a break.

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

And another thing that I actually liked about Hashirama. The fact that we saw the friendship, the bond between Hashirama and Madara. We saw how it started, we saw how it developed, we saw friendship, we saw conflict, and we saw how it ended.

All within a span of what was it? About 15 chapter if I remember correctly. Maybe even shorter than that.

But we never saw any of that in the bond that was shoved down our throats for 698 chapters. The famous bond between Naruto and Sasuke.

We saw about 3 times that scene when little Sasuke was standing on the edge of the lake and Naruto walking past him while the two of them looked angry at each other, then as the two lovers parted ways, we see both of them smiling for no reason.

And we're supposed to believe that this is the strongest and most developed bond and friendship in the entire world. Such development. Give me a break.

And also that, despite that friendship and even the many things they agreed on, Hashirama eventually (believed that he) killed Madara because he knew how dangerous Madara would be as a rogue.

Sasuke's danger towards others escalated so much since his fight with Naruto at the end of part one, but Naruto decides to go the whole, "I'd rather be stupid!" route despite Jiraiya warning him about it because of his (and Hiruzen's) own inability to bring themselves to kill Orochimaru when they had the chance (because of their bond with him), resulting in Orochimaru being able to do all his crimes and experiments, as well as the flip-flopping Sasuke was doing just so such a thing wouldn't have to happen (or even allowing Sasuke to end up crippled like I feel he should have - permanently blinded and unable to be a shinobi anymore).

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

And also that, despite that friendship and even the many things they agreed on, Hashirama eventually (believed that he) killed Madara because he knew how dangerous Madara would be as a rogue.

Sasuke's danger towards others escalated so much since his fight with Naruto at the end of part one, but Naruto decides to go the whole, "I'd rather be stupid!" route despite Jiraiya warning him about it because of his (and Hiruzen's) own inability to bring themselves to kill Orochimaru when they had the chance (because of their bond with him), resulting in Orochimaru being able to do all his crimes and experiments, as well as the flip-flopping Sasuke was doing just so such a thing wouldn't have to happen (or even allowing Sasuke to end up crippled like I feel he should have - permanently blinded and unable to be a shinobi anymore).

 

Yeah, and even when Sasuke tried to do something right, as I've said to you plenty of times, bro, he only did it to make himself feel better. When he wanted to kill the Hidden Leaf Village, it was an eye for an eye in his opinion. Sasuke claimed he was doing it because of what Itachi meant to him, but he also forgot he hated Itachi not just because of the massacre, but also because of how much better Itachi was than he was, and how Fugaku kept comparing him to his older brother. 

 

Even when Sasuke wanted to help the alliance, he did it all for his own reasons, and even when he told Naruto what he was gonna do after their battle showed he just spat on the memory of Itachi, and didn't care about him. If he cared about Itachi, he wouldn't have done what he had planned and would have tried to find another way.

[rocci]

Naruto will not kill.

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

Naruto will not kill.

That's fine as long as there are consequences (depending on who and the situation and whatnot).

If the person isn't THAT bad, then sure, not killing them is just fine and the results of not doing so most likely won't be bad at all, but when it comes to people like Orochimaru, Nagato, Obito, Sasuke, and others who were more than willing to kill countless innocents without care just to achieve their own selfish goals (regardless of sob stories), then that's a completely different story. There needs to be a balance of idealism and realism and, unfortunately, Naruto is really 99.9% idealism compared to ones like Hashirama, Hiruzen, Jiraiya, and Minato (Tobirama was much more realism than idealism) who, while they themselves wished for "true peace", they also knew that it was not something that could be achieved easily, much less without shedding any blood whatsoever, no matter how much they may wish or try otherwise. It's why Naruto's "achievement of 'true peace'" by the end feels so hollow; it doesn't really feel like he truly had to make any sacrifices to earn it (at least any that showed any real visible impact by that point). Much like a bunch of his power-ups, it was largely just handed to him by having others magically conform to his views and such.

Things like Konoha's destruction and Ay's refusal to not kill Sasuke when Naruto pathetically begged him could have been moments of realism slapping Naruto in the face and make him grow up a bit and see the world in a more mature view (not necessarily jaded), but again, things were cheapened so he didn't have to like Nagato using Rinne Tensei to revive everyone and Ay just magically coming around during the war.

[Konoha'sCrimsonFox]

That is sadly true its all they now care about is Hinata getting what she wants as all the others don't matter and I hate that people like that should even have jobs that they do.

 

Agreed. Kishi passed the torch onto authors besides his assistants. It is sickening that you'll have to rely on doujinshi or deviate outside of Naruto get some justice with these characters. I'm sure the author of Black Clover is doing the same with that manga by ripping off the Naruverse and making it better. And you have me with my upcoming American literature novel 

[Nostradamus]

Naruto will not kill.

Tell that to Kakuzu.

While it's true he wasn't the one to deliver the last blow, he killed him.

[rocci]

Tell that to Kakuzu.
While it's true he wasn't the one to deliver the last blow, he killed him.

How could naruto kill kakuzu when it's kakashi the one who do that.
The last blow from kakashi happen to make naruto doesn't make a kill.

Edited by rocci, 24 December 2015 - 10:14 AM.

[Nostradamus]

How could naruto kill kakuzu when it's kakashi the one who do that.
The last blow from kakashi happen to make naruto doesn't make a kill.

He still killed him.

[rocci]

He still killed him.

He doesn't, kakashi did.

Edited by rocci, 24 December 2015 - 10:20 AM.

[RedFaction]

Naruto has killed one person before. This guy: http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Yura

 

So yes, Naruto can kill.

[rocci]

Naruto has killed one person before. This guy: http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Yura
 
So yes, Naruto can kill.

He already dead, it explain after the jutsu wear off.

[Nostradamus]

He doesn't, kakashi did.

Dude if I take a shotgun pull the trigger but my target is still alive. He's going to bleed to death but he's still alive and then someone else gives him a pity death and shots him in the head. I'm still the one that killed him. The other guy just put him out of his misery.

 

Naruto has killed one person before. This guy: http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Yura

 

So yes, Naruto can kill.

Yes, I actually forgot about that.

 

He already dead, it explain after the jutsu wear off.

The description to the explanation of that jutsu says the user allocates a portion of his/her chakra into a living human. Thus Yura was alive while fighting Naruto. Thus Naruto killed him with his Giant Rasengan.

[rocci]

@nostradamus
The one who finish him is the killer.

There's an explenation that the body that jutsu use is already dead.
Kishi will not do that if not to make naruto doesn't make a kill.

[Nostradamus]

@rocci Ok same example but instead of me it's you. So have a shotgun, you pulled the trigger and you hit your target. He's not dead but he will bleed to death. Your friend decides to stop his suffering and shots him in the head.

Who is the killer?

 

Also: http://naruto.wikia....fting_Technique

[rocci]

@rocci Ok same example but instead of me it's you. So have a shotgun, you pulled the trigger and you hit your target. He's not dead but he will bleed to death. Your friend decides to stop his suffering and shots him in the head.
Who is the killer?
 
Also: http://naruto.wikia....fting_Technique

Your friend.

Living sacrifice, it work like edo tensei. It's a puppet after all.
If he truly killed him, than kishi doesn't need to make kakashi kill kakuzu.
That scene intend to make naruto free from kill count.

[Yyubie]

And also that, despite that friendship and even the many things they agreed on, Hashirama eventually (believed that he) killed Madara because he knew how dangerous Madara would be as a rogue.

Sasuke's danger towards others escalated so much since his fight with Naruto at the end of part one, but Naruto decides to go the whole, "I'd rather be stupid!" route despite Jiraiya warning him about it because of his (and Hiruzen's) own inability to bring themselves to kill Orochimaru when they had the chance (because of their bond with him), resulting in Orochimaru being able to do all his crimes and experiments, as well as the flip-flopping Sasuke was doing just so such a thing wouldn't have to happen (or even allowing Sasuke to end up crippled like I feel he should have - permanently blinded and unable to be a shinobi anymore).

Yes both naruto and hiruzen are stupid, they just think about themself, why hiruzen can't kill orochimaru?? just because he is his most favorite student?? that's just so selfish, he doesn't think what would happen in the future the possibility of him attacking the village keep doing inhuman experiment countless people will die, he can't kill orochimaru just because only think about his feelings.

Same goes with naruto.

 

Personal feelings should never interfere law and judgement.

Hashirama is the best hokage, no matter who they are even if his own family, if they harm the village they must be punish, look at hiruzen and naruto. Just because orochimaru is his favorite student and sasuke is his best friend they both goes free. Can you believe that!!??

Edited by Yyubie, 24 December 2015 - 01:26 PM.

[VanitasDS76491]

Yes. Kishi is just a bad writer. Sometimes the only cure for bad guy is death, sometimes its either you or him/her, otherwise you will die or they will just keep hurting other people.
It takes time to save a bad guy and redeem them, it takes days ... but each days passing that bad guy just keep killing and hurting other people, imagine after 1 year you finally able to save and redeem that guy from the darkness, but at what cost ?? thousands already falls victim. Is that really worth it?? for just 1 guy?? . If you just kill him fast then nobody gets hurt or at least reduce the amount of victims. Trying to save Obito and yes naruto did success but at what cost ?? Minato, Kushina, Jiraya, Nagato, Yahiko, Conan and thousands of other people lives?? for just 1 kittening uchina guy???

I couldn't agree more and Naruto calls that little Darth Vader knockoff the most awesome guy ever even after he killed all those people naruto cared for more showing how much of an kitten naruto really is.