487 replies to this topic

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

You know, I joked about this one, but if that happens, ouch. Just ouch.

Actually i dont understand the tree, if the tree is the juubi why he's away from Obito's body?

If they "destroy the tree" but the tree inst sealed inside Obito since he's the juubi's jinchuuriki?, actually i'm not understanding this.

 

I know that Naruto has the bijuu mode but the kyuubi is never away from Naruto's body and the same happens with hachibi, he actually transform into hachibi, should not Obito become the tree itself? 

Or at least a similar form to Naruto when he's on bijuu mode?

 

Also it is possible that Madara and Sasuke share some family ties like Sasuke being his "grandson" or sort off?

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 20 October 2013 - 06:23 PM.

[sushi.]

lol ^Madara did not have a son.

[arian_rad]

Actually i dont understand the tree, if the tree is the juubi why he's away from Obito's body?

If they "destroy the tree" but the tree inst sealed inside Obito since he's the juubi's jinchuuriki?, actually i'm not understanding this.

 

I know that Naruto has the bijuu mode but the kyuubi is never away from Naruto's body and the same happens with hachibi, he actually transform into hachibi, should not Obito become the tree itself? 

Or at least a similar form to Naruto when he's on bijuu mode?

 

Also it is possible that Madara and Sasuke share some family ties like Sasuke being his "grandson" or sort off?

 

Madara had no love interest as spoken of and was a lonely man even in his death as we witnessed the condition he was in when Obito was found. This is aside from the fact that Tsunade is in her 50's and her grandpa is hashirama.... meaning tsunade is about 34 years younger than Sasuke. I would say it's actually impossible for Sasuke to be family related to Madara.

Edited by arian_rad, 20 October 2013 - 06:38 PM.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

 

Madara had no love interest as spoken of and was a lonely man even in his death as we witnessed the condition he was in when Obito was found. This is aside from the fact that Tsunade is in her 50's and her grandpa is hashirama.... meaning tsunade is about 34 years younger than Sasuke. I would say it's actually impossible for Sasuke to be family related to Madara.

Yeah... but i dont know, Madara's past is surely a mistery and since he certainly had uncles and other stuff, he had a lot of brothers too, which died and even his brother also died.

I'm trying to imply that we saw a lot of uchihas by far and Sasuke is the only one who had similar genetics to Madara most important by far only Itachi and Sasuke were capable of pulling off Susano'o which only Madara is shown to have among the uchihas.

We never saw other uchihas which had mangekyou that could pull off a susano'o like Shisui and even Obito here.

Before ppl say that "Obito need two sharingans to pull off a susano'o" yet he had two sharingans when he fought konan and one he lose because he used Izanagi and then he picked up the rinnengan.

he must have some degree of kinship.

 

 

Madara's father was the leader of the uchiha clan, then later Madara himself, he goes away but obviously even with his brother death he still might had some other relatives(not brothers), and Sasuke's father was also leader of the uchiha clan.

 

Obviously just a theory.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 20 October 2013 - 06:50 PM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

I think it's just a generation repeating a past one. That's a safe bet. I know it's a theory of what you point out, so I can't say your wrong or anything. I probably have to look over old chapters.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

size

The size of this compared to the tree?
 
bijuu rasen shuriken
 

rasenshuriken

Tobirama Master Race

Tobirama The Lucid

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 20 October 2013 - 07:28 PM.

[ramenanmitsu]

He has mobility that allows him to dodge it, Katsuyu lacks it and most importantly she needs someome to make her turn into liquid, Gamakichi can handle all this by himself, Katsuyu serves more as a medium and an amplifier of their jutsus, she's not a common summon animal like Gamakichi, Manda and others, she need a third partner giving her chakra and using jutsus.

Katsuyu doenst have any use as an offensive summon, she's mostly used to amplify either Sakura's or Tsunade's healing skills and nothing else more.

 

Katsuyu can divide herself to dodge attacks but amateratsu it depends on the ammount it's used and RasenShuriken even if she divides herself it will get her even if she turns herself into liquid. 

Gamakichi can jump really high which allows him to dodge amost all the attacks plus the fact he can use senjutsu without the need of Naruto giving him chakra.
I just believe people are indeed overrating Katsuyu, she's a strong defensive/support but nothing else more than that, she cant do much things offensively speaking off, and her spitting acid is not this strong.

Could you please provide me with the manga panel where it shows Gamakichi is dodging the RasenShuriken, Bijuudama, Amaterasu? Because, I don't remember a scene in the manga where he dodged those attacks. Until you provide me with the panels, I'm going to say that Gamakichi is quite the same. 

 

>Katsuyu can divide herself to dodge attacks but amateratsu it depends on the ammount it's used and RasenShuriken even if she divides herself it will get her even if she turns herself into liquid. 

Can you provide me with panels that Gamakichi is fast enough to dodge the Amaterasu and RasenShuriken? If you're going to base this on assumptions, then I'm also going to say that Katsuyu is fast enough to dodge attacks based on my own assumptions. 

 

>plus the fact he can use senjutsu without the need of Naruto giving him chakra.

Katsuyu can spit acid, split herself up, and liquidize without the need of Sakura giving her chakra

 

I just believe people are indeed overrating Katsuyu, she's a strong defensive/support but nothing else more than that, she cant do much things offensively speaking off, and her spitting acid is not this strong.

And I believe that you are indeed underrating Katsuyu, for the sole reason that the idea of Sakura's summon could compare to Naruto's summon disgusts you (Naruto>>>>>Sakura).  The fact that you are stating positive aspects of Gamakichi, but absolutely reject to see the same for Katsuyu makes me believe this (plus your previous replies regarding any matter concerning Naruto and Sakura, or Gamakichi and Katsuyu). Your arguments are filled with double standards, spitting on people's statements regarding Katsuyu with no proof whatsoever, whereas the same time trying to over glorify Gamakichi (again without proofs) in order to prove that Gamakichi>>>>>Katsuyu. 

 

Being a defensive/support does not equal being weak in offensive/combat. It's like saying Hashirama being a great healer means that he cannot fight. Or Neji being a great tracker means he cannot fight and so on. Strong Characters actually have both strong defense and offense capabilities. Example: Naruto.

 

And for Katsuyu's acid not being strong enough, I can easily say the same back for Gamakichi, that his senjutsu attacks are not that strong. 

Edited by ramenanmitsu, 20 October 2013 - 08:10 PM.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Could you please provide me with the manga panel where it shows Gamakichi is dodging the RasenShuriken, Bijuudama, Amaterasu? Because, I don't remember a scene in the manga where he dodged those attacks. Until you provide me with the panels, I'm going to say that Gamakichi is quite the same. 

 

>Katsuyu can divide herself to dodge attacks but amateratsu it depends on the ammount it's used and RasenShuriken even if she divides herself it will get her even if she turns herself into liquid. 

Can you provide me with panels that Gamakichi is fast enough to dodge the Amaterasu and RasenShuriken? If you're going to base this on assumptions, then I'm also going to say that Katsuyu is fast enough to dodge attacks based on my own assumptions. 

 

>plus the fact he can use senjutsu without the need of Naruto giving him chakra.

Katsuyu can spit acid, split herself up, and liquidize without the need of Sakura giving her chakra

 

I just believe people are indeed overrating Katsuyu, she's a strong defensive/support but nothing else more than that, she cant do much things offensively speaking off, and her spitting acid is not this strong.

And I believe that you are indeed underrating Katsuyu, for the sole reason that the idea of Sakura's summon could compare to Naruto's summon disgusts you (Naruto>>>>>Sakura).  The fact that you are stating positive aspects of Gamakichi, but reject to see the same for Katsuyu makes me believe this. Your arguments are filled with double standards, spitting on people's statements regarding Katsuyu with no proof whatsoever, whereas the same time trying to over glorify Gamakichi (again without proofs) in order to prove that Gamakichi>>>>>Katsuyu. 

 

Being a defensive/support does not equal being weak in offensive/combat. It's like saying Hashirama being a great healer means that he cannot fight. Or Neji being a great tracker means he cannot fight and so on. Strong Characters actually have both strong defense and offense capabilities. Example: Naruto.

 

And for Katsuyu's acid not being strong enough, I can easily say the same back for Gamakichi, that his senjutsu attacks are not that strong. 

First, yes you're right it's an assumption.

 

Katsuyu is invincible, even before ppl saying that it was the stronger than the frog and the snake(dont ask me to find the comment it's on another topic and i'm done with the subtopic)

Bolded.

 

To do what?

What's the purpose of her liquidifying herself or even spliting up herself(without the summoner), it's can be easily compared to Gamakichi ability to jump it's a double standard, the purpose is that she needs to do it to heal but her healing prowess comes from the summoner, which needs to waste chakra would be great if Katsuyu used her own chakra to heal people then Sakura would not need to be constantly focused on her handseal(sacrificing her own offensive capabilities) which would allow her to fight, in comparison Gamakichi doesnt need Naruto's chakra to use his jutsus.

 

In fact Katsuyu cant use any jutsus, the only who can use jutsus aka senjutsu so far between (Slug, Snake and Frog) was the frog. 

 

This logic is flawed, Neji is a good tracker but he does have a lot of offensive techniques which allows him to fight, Katsuyu doesnt have those.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 20 October 2013 - 08:21 PM.

[ramenanmitsu]

Katsuyu is invincible, even before ppl saying that it was the stronger than the frog and the snake(dont ask me to find the comment it's on another topic and i'm done with the subtopic)

Bolded.

 

To do what?

What's the purpose of her liquidifying herself or even spliting up herself(without the summoner), it's can be easily compared to Gamakichi ability to jump it's a double standard, the purpose is that she needs to do it to heal but her healing prowess comes from the summoner, which needs to waste chakra would be great if Katsuyu used her own chakra to heal people then Sakura would not need to be constantly focused on her handseal which would allow her to fight, in comparison Gamakichi doesnt need Naruto's chakra to use his jutsus.

 

In fact Katsuyu cant use any jutsus, the only who can use jutsus so far (Slug, Snake Frog) was the frog.

 

This logic is flawed, Neji is a good tracker but he does have a lot of offensive techniques which allows him to fight, Katsuyu doesnt have those.

Well, I never saw that topic, and I don't agree with the Katsuyu>Gamakichi statement. so moving on. 

 

>What's the purpose of her liquidifying herself or even spliting up herself(without the summoner), it's can be easily compared to Gamakichi ability to jump it's a double standard, the purpose is that she needs to do it to heal but her healing prowess comes from the summoner, which needs to waste chakra would be great if Katsuyu used her own chakra to heal people then Sakura would not need to be constantly focused on her handseal which would allow her to fight, in comparison Gamakichi doesnt need Naruto's chakra to use his jutsus.

Huh, this doesn't make sense. You're purposefully ignoring Katsuyu's aspects other than healing to prove that she can't do anything without Sakura's chakra. Katsuyu splitting up and liquidizing herself can be used as a defense. To repel the attack of the enemy like she did when Manda tried to squeeze her. She can also spit acid by herself.

 

>In fact Katsuyu cant use any jutsus, the only who can use jutsus so far (Slug, Snake Frog) was the frog.

She can spit acid. Although, I don't know whether it will be considered a jutsu or not. In either case, whether her capabilities are a jutsu or not is quite irrelevant to whether she is strong or not. The same as whether Gamakichi can shoot oil or water as a jutsu or as his natural attribute doesn't matter to whether he is strong or not. 

 

This logic is flawed, Neji is a good tracker but he does have a lot of offensive techniques which allows him to fight, Katsuyu doesnt have those.

And you neglecting to see the same for Katsuyu is perfectly logical? Neji has Juuken, and Katsuyu has acid attacks. I don't know why I have to repeat this for the umpteenth time that Katsuyu spitting acid is an offensive capability. 

Edited by ramenanmitsu, 20 October 2013 - 08:33 PM.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Well, I never saw that topic, and I don't agree with the Katsuyu>Gamakichi statement. so moving on. 

 

>What's the purpose of her liquidifying herself or even spliting up herself(without the summoner), it's can be easily compared to Gamakichi ability to jump it's a double standard, the purpose is that she needs to do it to heal but her healing prowess comes from the summoner, which needs to waste chakra would be great if Katsuyu used her own chakra to heal people then Sakura would not need to be constantly focused on her handseal which would allow her to fight, in comparison Gamakichi doesnt need Naruto's chakra to use his jutsus.

Huh, this doesn't make sense. You're purposefully ignoring Katsuyu's aspects other than healing to prove that she can't do anything without Sakura's chakra. Katsuyu splitting up and liquidizing herself can be used as a defense. To repel the attack of the enemy like she did when Manda tried to squeeze her. She can also spit acid by herself.

 

>In fact Katsuyu cant use any jutsus, the only who can use jutsus so far (Slug, Snake Frog) was the frog.

She can spit acid. Although, I don't know whether it will be considered a jutsu or not. In either case, whether her capabilities are a jutsu or not is quite irrelevant to whether she is strong or not. The same as whether Gamakichi can shoot oil or water as a jutsu or as his natural attribute doesn't matter to whether he is strong or not. 

 

 

This logic is flawed, Neji is a good tracker but he does have a lot of offensive techniques which allows him to fight, Katsuyu doesnt have those.

And you neglect to see the same for Katsuyu? Neji has Juuken, and Katsuyu has acid attacks. I don't know why I have to repeat this for the umpteenth time that Katsuyu spitting acid is an offensive capability. 

Actually i compared it with his ability to jump which is also used to dodge too, which showed on Gaara's fight to dodge First tail attack.

Obviously he doesnt have the same absorbing impact Katsuyu does.

About Sakura, i cant see any other role for Katsuyu other than support/defense, however her main feat is the healing prowess(which comes from the summoner) and the fact her body can serve as a medium even on a liquid for to allow remote healing.

 

 

That's why i also removed his ability to spit oil because i dont know if it can be considered as a jutsu so i only used the senjutsu as an example.

Are you seriously going to compare his juuken, taijutsu, and ninja abilities with spitting acid?

 

It's the same thing when i think about Sakura and even Tsunade, in comparison with the kages ,Tsunade is the only one who only has one ability and it's the same reason why i dont consider Tsunade on Kage's level in terms of fighting obviously, neither Sakura, because both only has the super strenght as an offensive capability which greatly decreases their resources and strategies when fighting.

Which is the reason why there's hope for Sakura to get slug sage mode.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 20 October 2013 - 08:49 PM.

[ramenanmitsu]

Actually i compared it with his ability to jump which is also used to dodge too, which showed on Gaara's fight to dodge First tail attack.

Obviously he doesnt have the same absorbing impact Katsuyu does.

About Sakura, i cant see any other role for Katsuyu other than support/defense, however her main feat is the healing prowess(which comes from the summoner) and the fact her body can serve as a medium even on a liquid for to allow remote healing.

 

 

That's why i also removed his ability to spit oil because i dont know if it can be considered as a jutsu so i only used the senjutsu as an example.

Are you seriously going to compare his juuken, taijutsu, and ninja abilities with spitting acid?

 

It's the same thing when i think about Sakura and even Tsunade, in comparison with the kages ,Tsunade is the only one who only has one ability and it's the same reason why i dont consider Tsunade on Kage's level in terms of fighting obviously, neither Sakura, because both only has the super strenght as an offensive capability which greatly decreases their resources and strategies when fighting.

Which is the reason why there's a hope for Sakura to get slug sage mode.

Actually i compared it with his ability to jump which is also used to dodge too, which showed on Gaara's fight to dodge First tail attack.

Obviously he doesnt have the same absorbing impact Katsuyu does.

 

About Sakura, i cant see any other role for Katsuyu other than support/defense, however her main feat is the healing prowess(which comes from the summoner) and the fact her body can serve as a medium even on a liquid for to allow remote healing.

Katsuyu appeared during the Sannin battle to fight, not to heal. And being in the support/defense doesn't automatically make her less than Gamakichi. I fail to see the logic here. 

 

Are you seriously going to compare his juuken, taijutsu, and ninja abilities with spitting acid?

I don't know what you mean to imply here, so I will say it right back at you. Are you going to seriously compare Katsuyu's spitting acid with Neji's Juuken?

 

It's the same thing when i think about Sakura and even Tsunade, in comparison with the kages ,Tsunade is the only one who only has one ability and it's the same reason why i dont consider Tsunade on Kage's level in terms of fighting obviously, neither Sakura, because both only has the super strenght as an offensive capability which greatly decreases their resources and strategies when fighting.

 

Which is the reason why there's a hope for Sakura to get slug sage mode

Hm? So do you mean that the number of abilities determines the strength of the user? In that case, I can see where you're coming from. But if that's the case, Hiruzen is definitely much more stronger than Naruto, since he can use a 1000 jutsus. Orochimaru too. They have so much more resources and strategies. And Naruto can use like what? 10? 20?

Edited by ramenanmitsu, 20 October 2013 - 09:00 PM.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

 

Actually i compared it with his ability to jump which is also used to dodge too, which showed on Gaara's fight to dodge First tail attack.

Obviously he doesnt have the same absorbing impact Katsuyu does.

 

About Sakura, i cant see any other role for Katsuyu other than support/defense, however her main feat is the healing prowess(which comes from the summoner) and the fact her body can serve as a medium even on a liquid for to allow remote healing.

Katsuyu appeared during the Sannin battle to fight, not to heal. And being in the support/defense doesn't automatically make her less than Gamakichi. I fail to see the logic here. 

 

Are you seriously going to compare his juuken, taijutsu, and ninja abilities with spitting acid?

I don't know what you mean to imply here, so I will say it right back at you. Are you going to seriously compare Katsuyu's spitting acid with Neji's Juuken?

 

It's the same thing when i think about Sakura and even Tsunade, in comparison with the kages ,Tsunade is the only one who only has one ability and it's the same reason why i dont consider Tsunade on Kage's level in terms of fighting obviously, neither Sakura, because both only has the super strenght as an offensive capability which greatly decreases their resources and strategies when fighting.

 

Which is the reason why there's a hope for Sakura to get slug sage mode

Hm? So do you mean that the number of abilities determines the strength of the user? In that case, I can see where you're coming from. But if that's the case, Hiruzen is definitely much more stronger than Naruto, since he can use a 1000 jutsus. Orochimaru too. And Naruto can use like what? 10?

 

What?

A ninja doesnt need 1000 jutsus, obviously, Naruto has few jutsus, but he can defend, support, as for offensive i can name, 

"strong long ranged attack" (Rasen shuriken)

"Strong melee Attack"(Rasengan, Taijutsu(enhance by sage mode), Extra hands from the kyuubi chakra)

"Strong MID-Short attack" (Kawazu Kumite, Oodama Rasengan)

 

Standard Jutsus (Can be used either offensively or defensive)

"Kage bushin no jutsu"

"TkG" i dont know

 

Aside from that there's the bijuu form(enhances his atributes) and bijuu bomb, aside the fact Sage mode who also enhances his attributes and makes him jutsus stronger.(power boost)

 

Naruto has several forms to fight and he can adapt to every kind of situation, he doesnt need 1000 jutsus but need a few ones and he does have it.

(The kyuubi and the sage mode allows him to override his own weakness)

Ex : Sasuke is faster than Naruto without sage mode and Bijuu form.

Naruto is weak against genjutsu ( he's immune due to his jinchuuriki status now)

Cant endure katon and jutsus ( Bijuu form allows him even to tank Madara's katon)

Pain had better taijutsu than Naruto( Sage form enhances his taijutsu)

 

Without Sage mode and Bijuu chakra Hiruzen obviously is stronger than him.

And without any doubts if Sakura(with byakugou?) had a strong ranged attack and speed she would beat Naruto too.

 

Hiruzen

"Long ranged attacks"

"Melee attacks"

"Ranged attacks" 

 

No power ups.

 

Tsunade.

 

Her seal( High regeneration).

Super Strength.

 

Strategy: get close to the enemy to hit him.

Madara's fight : she used her own body to attack him, and she got split in half due to the false notion she's invincinble.

She went all-in.

 

I remember that Naruto used his hand to attack Kabuto and Jiraiya called him a fool because he should not allow the enemy to hurt his hand everytime.

 

Tsunade doesnt have any kind of long ranged attack, neither mid ranged attack.

 

*Note* i'm not talking just about jutsus but offensive capabilities.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 20 October 2013 - 09:23 PM.

[ramenanmitsu]

What?

A ninja doesnt need 1000 jutsus, obviously, Naruto has few jutsus, but he can defend, support, as for offensive i can name, 

"strong long ranged attack" (Rasen shuriken)

"Strong melee Attack"(Rasengan, Taijutsu, Extra hands from the kyuubi chakra)

"Strong MID-Short attack" (Kawazu Kumite, Oodama Rasengan)

 

Standard Jutsus (Can be used either offensively or defensive)

"Kage bushin no jutsu"

"TkG" i dont know

 

Aside from that there's the bijuu form(enhances his atributes) and bijuu bomb, aside the fact Sage mode who also enhances his attributes and makes him jutsus stronger.(power boost)

 

Naruto has several forms to fight and he can adapt to every kind of situation, he doesnt need 1000 jutsus but need a few ones and he does have it.

(The kyuubi and the sage mode allows him to override his own weakness)

Ex : Sasuke is faster than Naruto without sage mode and Bijuu form.

Naruto is weak against genjutsu ( he's immune due to his jinchuuriki status now)

Cant endure katon and jutsus ( Bijuu form allows him even to tank Madara's katon)

Pain had better taijutsu than Naruto( Sage form enhances his taijutsu)

 

Hiruzen

"Long ranged attacks"

"Melee attacks"

"Ranged attacks" 

 

No power ups.

 

Tsunade.

 

Her seal( High regeneration).

Super Strength.

 

Strategy: get close to the enemy to hit him.

Madara's fight : she used her own body to attack him, and she got split in half due to the false notion she's invincinble.

She went all-in.

 

I remember that Naruto used his hand to attack Kabuto and Jiraiya called him a fool because he should not allow the enemy to hurt his hand everytime.

 

Tsunade doesnt have any kind of long ranged attack, neither mid ranged attack.

My previous argument was based on your "offensive techniques=strength" thinking that you meant the number is what makes the person stronger. The number of jutsu Naruto has pales in comparison to Hiruzen's 1000 jutsus. However if you count the variety of one technique, as one's strength then I agree with you and that is my opinion as well. It's not the number of techniques but the usable methods that matters. Naruto's offensive attacks are based on rasengan, making it bigger, smaller, wider, narrower based on the situations. Ex.) Mini Rasen Shuriken, Oodama Rasengan, Rasengan Barriage. 

 

And I can say that Katsuyu could do the same. Tiny Katsuyu can do a "Mini Zesshi Nensan", split parts of Katsuyu can do a "Multiple Katsuyu Zesshi Nensan Attack" and attack from all directions or Huge Katsuyu can do a "Enormous Katsuyu Zesshi Nensan Attack" and increase the impact. 

 

Hence, I don't necessarily think that Neji's Juuken abilities has more variety in offense/defense compared to that of Katsuyu like you said. The range of her attack, the variety of the size of her attack far exceeds that of what Neji has. 

>Tsunade.

 

Her seal( High regeneration).

Super Strength.

 

Strategy: get close to the enemy to hit him.

Madara's fight : she used her own body to attack him, and she got split in half due to the false notion she's invincinble.

She went all-in.

 

I remember that Naruto used his hand to attack Kabuto and Jiraiya called him a fool because he should not allow the enemy to hurt his hand everytime.

 

Tsunade doesnt have any kind of long ranged attack, neither mid ranged attack.

 

I don't care about Tsunade. Not to mention, I agree with most of what you say regarding her. 

Edited by ramenanmitsu, 20 October 2013 - 09:32 PM.

[StriderC]

Actually, all that Katsuyu did was channel the chakra, not use it for defense. Otherwise, she wouln't have made it through the CHibaku tensei. Katsuyu's defensive capabilities have nothing to do with Tsunade.
Katsuyu is linked only in regards to healing, not in other regards such as the acid, her own healing, defensive capabilities and turning herself into liquid. That's all Katsuyu's job.
Sakura and Tsunade just provide a more improved healing capability via her.

There's an obvious over-glorification of the toad to the slug. Most of the time she's summoned, its for healing. She's already shown offensive capabilities with her acid and in a fight with the summons she held her own. She evaded constriction and she used an offensive attack. This attack had nothing to do with chakra channeling.

After that, she was more of a healing type that showed incredible defensive skill. There's talk about Amaterasu and the rasen shuriken but I don't understand how one can say it'd hit one of the other. I can see Katsuyu outlasting the toad since she can split up and scatter. The 8 tails got caught by it and jumping ain't gonna do diddly squat when it comes to dodging amaterasu. It's just gonna make him an easier target.

The toad may have her beat in jutsu and such but durability and defense falls toward Katsuyu
She's practically immune to some of the attacks that would take down the toad and snake.

[rocci]

The three way deadlock is something like this frog>slug>snake>frog.
With the frog has the advantage in offensive area.
While snake in mobility and environmental manipulation.
And slug with its defensive capabilities and one DoT attack.

[morgaine4]

Hmm, Orochimaru seems to be afraid of Katsuyu's acid...obviously another sign that the slug beats the snake, the snake beats the toad, and the toad beats the slug.  A 3-way deadlock.  So what happens when the toad and slug team up to TnJ the snake?

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

My previous argument was based on your "offensive techniques=strength" thinking that you meant the number is what makes the person stronger. The number of jutsu Naruto has pales in comparison to Hiruzen's 1000 jutsus. However if you count the variety of one technique, as one's strength then I agree with you and that is my opinion as well. It's not the number of techniques but the usable methods that matters. Naruto's offensive attacks are based on rasengan, making it bigger, smaller, wider, narrower based on the situations. Ex.) Mini Rasen Shuriken, Oodama Rasengan, Rasengan Barriage. 

 

And I can say that Katsuyu could do the same. Tiny Katsuyu can do a "Mini Zesshi Nensan", split parts of Katsuyu can do a "Multiple Katsuyu Zesshi Nensan Attack" and attack from all directions or Huge Katsuyu can do a "Enormous Katsuyu Zesshi Nensan Attack" and increase the impact. 

 

Hence, I don't necessarily think that Neji's Juuken abilities has more variety in offense/defense compared to that of Katsuyu like you said. The range of her attack, the variety of the size of her attack far exceeds that of what Neji has. 

 

Actually it's my fault since i didnt expressed correctly, i was talking more about offensive capabilities rather than just jutsus.

As for Naruto, yes he can change the form of his rasengan but it's literally useless without sage mode or even bijuu mode, remember that Naruto was really weak before he got sage mode, he didnt trained his taijutsu or any of other capabilities, his sage mode boosted up everything even his speed and he trained his taijutsu.

Bijuu mode made it way further to an absurd level, he's even the fastest Shinobi of the world(Dunno why Naruto doesnt show this again)

His taijutsu it's not so impressive(comparing wiht Pain or Sasuke or even kage level) without sage mode and Kyuubi chakra.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 20 October 2013 - 09:51 PM.

[ramenanmitsu]

Hmm, Orochimaru seems to be afraid of Katsuyu's acid...obviously another sign that the slug beats the snake, the snake beats the toad, and the toad beats the slug.  A 3-way deadlock.  So what happens when the toad and slug team up to TnJ the snake?

Katsuyu and Gamakichi teaming up together to TnJ Manda? I would love to see that 

 

Gamakichi: Yo! Lets achieve world peace!

Katsuyu: What do you say Manda san?

Manda: Give me 200 human sacrifices and then I will consider! 

 

 

Actually it's my fault since i didnt expressed correctly, i was talking more about offensive capabilities rather than just jutsus.

As for Naruto, yes he can change the form of his rasengan but it's literally useless without sage mode or even bijuu mode, remember that Naruto was really weak before he got sage mode, he didnt trained his taijutsu or any of other capabilities, his sage mode boosted up everything even his speed.

Bijuu mode made it very further to an absurd level.

His taijutsu it's not so impressive(comparing wiht Pain or Sasuke or even kage level) without sage mode or Kyuubi chakra.

I don't disagree with anything here.

 

That often seems to be the case with many strong characters. They need outer force to reach extraordinary levels that their base cannot reach. Sasuke with his brother's Mangekyo Sharingan Eyes, Kabuto with the Sage Mode obtained from the snakes and infusing DNA from notable clans,  Danzo/Yamato with Uchiha eyes/Hashirama Mokuton, Orochimaru from inhabiting in a strong clan's body and so on and on. 

 

I guess when talking of base-level, Raikage or Onoki could be the strongest one alive. 

Edited by ramenanmitsu, 20 October 2013 - 09:56 PM.

[rocci]

@morgaine
In jiraiya monogatari, it need the combine effort of tsunade and jiraiya to defeat orochimaru. So yes it would be a successful tnj I think ><

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Hmm, Orochimaru seems to be afraid of Katsuyu's acid...obviously another sign that the slug beats the snake, the snake beats the toad, and the toad beats the slug.  A 3-way deadlock.  So what happens when the toad and slug team up to TnJ the snake?

Sakura just need to summon this 

http://i33.mangaread...uto-3932765.jpg

 

That she TnJ even Naruto http://www.mangaread...et/naruto/626/9

Kyuubi = small cat of nine tails.

 

Good night Naruto tomorrow is your birthday

http://www.mangaread...t/naruto/626/10

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 20 October 2013 - 09:49 PM.