447 replies to this topic

[TouKen4Life3g]

 
I guess it's because his muse, Hinata,  didn't got any a single appearance outside of a random thought by the Burrito

Really........

[Nostradamus]

 

I guess it's because his muse, Hinata,  didn't got any a single appearance outside of a random thought by the Burrito

Could be considering he love Hinata so much.

 

Am I the only person here who thinks that introducing Obito in the story was a bad idea ? 

He was a terrible villain. His backstory is a copy of Naruto's and a loot of other characters. 

Obito is jsut a proof that Kishi can write just one kind of characters.

I say his reintroduction in the story was a really bad idea, especially making him Tobi.

Tobi before turning him into Obito aka a whining little kitten that went on and on with Rin...Rin...Rin...Rin.

[Nar123]

Obito as Tobi was fine but c'mon, it could've been better executed 

 

The concept has potential but as always Kishi fumbled with it and screwed it up 

 

I found Obito fanfics that go in depth about his backstory, his reasons, etc end up making him a much more consistent character than what Kishi did

[TouKen4Life3g]

So pretty much, judgment is based on favoritism. That's class. I don't even address anything like "My favorite character got to shine a bit, which helped drastically making this a good series."

[Nostradamus]

Obito as Tobi was fine but c'mon, it could've been better executed 

 

The concept has potential but as always Kishi fumbled with it and screwed it up 

 

I found Obito fanfics that go in depth about his backstory, his reasons, etc end up making him a much more consistent character than what Kishi did

Sorry but it wasn't. The reveal was poorly handled. He sort of became a different version of Sasuke because of his bipolar tendencies to switch his motivations. One chapter goes on how he started this war because of Rin the next chapter how Rin's death had nothing to do with him starting the war. And guess what the next chapter he switches to Rin.

 

Obito as Tobi could have been something really good. But exactly like everything else in this story IT COULD HAVE BEEN.

And your last part of the comment sums up what Kishi screwed up. Because it's not my job as the reader to write the story. That's the writer's job.

[Nar123]

.

 

Obito as Tobi could have been something really good. But exactly like everything else in this story IT COULD HAVE BEEN.

And your last part of the comment sums up what Kishi screwed up. Because it's not my job as the reader to write the story. That's the writer's job.

 

That's what I said

[TouKen4Life3g]

Sadly, the next chapter is where people just facepalm and lost hope.

[Nostradamus]

 

That's what I said

Yeah sorry I'm tired. Honest mistake.

Edited by Nostradamus, 05 July 2015 - 02:58 AM.

[tricksie]

 

As always, with Kishi, everyone gotta love the Sauce  

Not even Ino can move on from her first crush completely, she still has to have something for him lel 

 

I wonder though. what makes the Sauce so desirable, the guy is a horrible husband, who clearly doesn't give his family the attention it needs 

And Sasuke in the end comes of looking like a real jerk. Not the cool guy. But just a jerk. He snubs his wife in front of his child before he leaves them both for another decade or more. And yeah, Ino is still shown as a fangirl. So Sasuke is shown still being favored by Sakura, Karin and Ino. (and the first two he tried to kill!) Does that qualify as a harem? He's a total Mary Sue/GaryStu hero, while Naruto is reduced to plot grease to move Sasuke's story along. 

 

Kishi is not going to go this logical route with bonds. In fact salad's only bonds outside of her family will be Naruto, since bolt needs to train under Sasuke to make him an SNS child, bolt because they are trying to force another rivalry, even though it makes no sense why she wants to become homage, and Chouchou, because she needed someone to be there for her daddy issues journey.

Hell, I'm just gonna assume that during the war, Sakura's parents died, because after seeing them in RtN, I know that there's zero chance that they would approve of Sasuke. And that's probably why they didn't even get to show up in this spin off that focused so much on family, or more specifically Salads.

I mean, this spin off made it look like all of Sakura's bonds with other people are gone, so it's obvious Kishi doesn't care about the characters outside of the ones he needs to use to churn out all this crap.

Yes, this is so true. Where is Sakura's family in this, now that they're daughter has left to single-handedly restart the Uchiha clan? Just like where is Hinata's family now that she's gone so completely against their traditions and lives just to make Naruto's bentos instead of heading up her clan?

 

So when you think about it like that - sure, why not have Naruto train Salada (even though he has no ability at all with the sharingan) and Sasuke train Bolt, (even though he has zero ability with the rasengan, byakugan or any other skill he might have inherited and has attempted to murder his father on several occasions). 

 

All reason and continuity and foreshadowing is just thrown out the window. What we thought was leading somewhere was just a joke played on the readers.

 

 

Well yeah, but hindsight is 20/20. At the time Obito and Rin were introduced as characters, I thought the author was actually going to bring things full circle. I continued to think this as we saw Jiraiya's final moments (where he recalls all of his failures, namely never winning Tsunade over). Ideally, Obito and Naruto could have had a "we're the same" speech, identifying all of their similarities and that Naruto needs to surpass him. In an ideal version of this manga, there's really no need to elaborate any further on Obito's feelings for Rin. But we never got that, so yeah, it did end up becoming a wasted opportunity.

Just like everything else that has been dropped from the series, the "surpassing the previous generation" idea is a big one that was just dropped. Along with "protecting my most precious people." Naruto could have finally surpassed Jiraiya and, even though I hated ObiRin, Naruto could have succeeded where Obito failed in both categories of surpassing and protecting.

 

But all that was flushed down the toilet. The only thing that remained was his truly unhealthy attachment to Sasuke. And in the end, we know that even that effort on Naruto's part was wasted because Sasuke never changed. He cares for no one. He protects no one. He loves no one. He takes orders from Konoha, but he in no way acts as if he has any allegiance to his old village or anyone there, including his wife and daughter.

 

Naruto lost everyone of his goals — both stated and implied, direct and indirect — while Sasuke was awarded every one of the things he never cared about. And in the end Sasuke is shown still not caring about them. He has a wife, a child, a restarted clan! What does he do? Walks away...for years and years. This was his one stated goal outside of murdering Itachi, restarting his clan. He gets that goal, yet disregards it as if it were a complete nuisance. 

 

It is a completely unsatisfying ending, that only works out for the most implausible pairings. Nothing else was brought full circle for any other character except Sasuke and Hinata. Naruto and Sakura have lost out completely. The story revolved around them, their goals were not met (instead completely subverted for the needs of lesser-deserving characters) so the whole story remains unresolved.

 

Jiraiya would be deeply disappointed.

[rocci]

Am I the only person here who thinks that introducing Obito in the story was a bad idea ? 
He was a terrible villain. His backstory is a copy of Naruto's and a loot of other characters. 
Obito is jsut a proof that Kishi can write just one kind of characters.

It's not a bad idea.
That's because he's uchiha naruto.
Kishi isn't creative, but obito is write specially as naruto parallel.

@nar123
I don't remember that. Maybe I'm miss it.

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

I actually would've preferred if "Tobi" actually was Madara, albeit weakened or something, or actually was Danzo like I had speculated years ago.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

 

Naruto lost everyone of his goals — both stated and implied, direct and indirect — while Sasuke was awarded every one of the things he never cared about. And in the end Sasuke is shown still not caring about them. He has a wife, a child, a restarted clan! What does he do? Walks away...for years and years. This was his one stated goal outside of murdering Itachi, restarting his clan. He gets that goal, yet disregards it as if it were a complete nuisance. 

 

It is a completely unsatisfying ending, that only works out for the most implausible pairings. Nothing else was brought full circle for any other character except Sasuke and Hinata. Naruto and Sakura have lost out completely. The story revolved around them, their goals were not met (instead completely subverted for the needs of lesser-deserving characters) so the whole story remains unresolved.

 

Jiraiya would be deeply disappointed.

 

Tricks, you are awesome Honestly, with Sasuke, I wondered if deep down, he ended up marrying Sakura to spite Naruto, since Naruto seems to show he has lingering feelings for her with his mentioning how he's there as well as Sasuke when Sakura shows up to help with Shin. So that tells me in the long run it doesn't matter.

And it sucks Naruto and Sakura, the series' most prominent main characters, had to get screwed, while favoritism led Sasuke and Hinata to be rewarded, which is ridiculous, and it also is as you said, Jiraiya would be deeply disappointed. Minato and Kushina probably are looking down at Naruto like "What the **** did you do, son? How did you lose your way so badly?"

[narusakurama]

But all that was flushed down the toilet. The only thing that remained was his truly unhealthy attachment to Sasuke. And in the end, we know that even that effort on Naruto's part was wasted because Sasuke never changed. He cares for no one. He protects no one. He loves no one. He takes orders from Konoha, but he in no way acts as if he has any allegiance to his old village or anyone there, including his wife and daughter.

 

 

And idiot  Kishi let it happen  because he , just  like Sasuke fans , believes that it is what makes Sasuke "cool" But  because of that his popularity probably decreased rather than grow , at least with western fans .

[Konoha'sCrimsonFox]

 

And idiot  Kishi let it happen  because he , just  like Sasuke fans , believes that it is what makes Sasuke "cool" But  because of that his popularity probably decreased rather than grow , at least with western fans .

 

Kishi knows that the west hates Sakura the most. Now the question is does Kishi knows that his most prized jackass character is ranked no two in the west; when clearly he's catering to the people who abhor his favorite character?

[Narufan85]

And Sasuke in the end comes of looking like a real jerk. Not the cool guy. But just a jerk. He snubs his wife in front of his child before he leaves them both for another decade or more. And yeah, Ino is still shown as a fangirl. So Sasuke is shown still being favored by Sakura, Karin and Ino. (and the first two he tried to kill!) Does that qualify as a harem? He's a total Mary Sue/GaryStu hero, while Naruto is reduced to plot grease to move Sasuke's story along. 

 

Yes, this is so true. Where is Sakura's family in this, now that they're daughter has left to single-handedly restart the Uchiha clan? Just like where is Hinata's family now that she's gone so completely against their traditions and lives just to make Naruto's bentos instead of heading up her clan?

 

 

Sasuke absolutely comes off looking like a jerk throughout this entire spin-off. And the worst part is that I'm certain legions of fans will find ways to excuse his behavior. After all, it's to be expected when one of the major, unintentional themes of the manga is that certain people (Read: Uchiha) are able to get away with virtually whatever they want without any fear of negative repercussions. 

 

As for Hinata's family: I know I've been a broken record on this, but I just find it absurd that she and Himawabi (or whatever her name is) are completely absent from Gaiden. I guess The Last was for NH and Gaiden for SS.

 

Sakura's family must be meeting with medical specialists to find out why their daughter had all those fainting spells as a child. Wait, a dropped plot line, you say? Kishi is worse dropping plot lines off into nowhere than the Game of Thrones Writers. Sakura's parents are chilling with the Uzumaki history in the Riverlands or on Gendry's boat. 

 

Sorry, conflating my shows, there.

 

 

 

Naruto lost everyone of his goals — both stated and implied, direct and indirect — while Sasuke was awarded every one of the things he never cared about. And in the end Sasuke is shown still not caring about them. He has a wife, a child, a restarted clan! What does he do? Walks away...for years and years. This was his one stated goal outside of murdering Itachi, restarting his clan. He gets that goal, yet disregards it as if it were a complete nuisance. 

 

The only goal Naruto achieved was becoming Homage, but it's done so in such an unsatisfying way. We don't get to see any sort of moment of triumph where he realizes his dream in front of friends he earned through hard work and determination. Nor do we see his teammate carry through on her promise to always stand beside him and support his goals. Both members of Team 7 are rendered weak in order to prop up Kishi's true protagonist.

What irks me most about the fact that he up and leaves at the end of Gaiden is that the family has complete acceptance. Oh, sure, Sarada's totes cool with it now that she's seen her dad. What an unrealistic scenario. 

 

 

It is a completely unsatisfying ending, that only works out for the most implausible pairings. Nothing else was brought full circle for any other character except Sasuke and Hinata. Naruto and Sakura have lost out completely. The story revolved around them, their goals were not met (instead completely subverted for the needs of lesser-deserving characters) so the whole story remains unresolved.

 

Jiraiya would be deeply disappointed.

 

Your comment about Jiraiya just reminds me how startling the shift in tone was after the Pein arc. What I wouldn't give to go back to the halcyon days of watching Jiraiya teach Naruto the rasengan.

[dejavu]

And Sasuke in the end comes of looking like a real jerk. Not the cool guy. But just a jerk. He snubs his wife in front of his child before he leaves them both for another decade or more. And yeah, Ino is still shown as a fangirl. So Sasuke is shown still being favored by Sakura, Karin and Ino. (and the first two he tried to kill!) Does that qualify as a harem? He's a total Mary Sue/GaryStu hero, while Naruto is reduced to plot grease to move Sasuke's story along. 
 

But tricksie...he poked their forehead desu. Danna anata sama truly cares about his waifu and tomatosalad. He wasnt being a jerk. Thats the ultimate gesture of truelab.

He just have to go on a journey where he could pretend they never exist. Pls understand as it hurts my kokoro

[rikakim94]

And Sasuke in the end comes of looking like a real jerk. Not the cool guy. But just a jerk. He snubs his wife in front of his child before he leaves them both for another decade or more. And yeah, Ino is still shown as a fangirl. So Sasuke is shown still being favored by Sakura, Karin and Ino. (and the first two he tried to kill!) Does that qualify as a harem? He's a total Mary Sue/GaryStu hero, while Naruto is reduced to plot grease to move Sasuke's story along. 

 

Yes, this is so true. Where is Sakura's family in this, now that they're daughter has left to single-handedly restart the Uchiha clan? Just like where is Hinata's family now that she's gone so completely against their traditions and lives just to make Naruto's bentos instead of heading up her clan?

 

So when you think about it like that - sure, why not have Naruto train Salada (even though he has no ability at all with the sharingan) and Sasuke train Bolt, (even though he has zero ability with the rasengan, byakugan or any other skill he might have inherited and has attempted to murder his father on several occasions). 

 

All reason and continuity and foreshadowing is just thrown out the window. What we thought was leading somewhere was just a joke played on the readers.

 

Just like everything else that has been dropped from the series, the "surpassing the previous generation" idea is a big one that was just dropped. Along with "protecting my most precious people." Naruto could have finally surpassed Jiraiya and, even though I hated ObiRin, Naruto could have succeeded where Obito failed in both categories of surpassing and protecting.

 

But all that was flushed down the toilet. The only thing that remained was his truly unhealthy attachment to Sasuke. And in the end, we know that even that effort on Naruto's part was wasted because Sasuke never changed. He cares for no one. He protects no one. He loves no one. He takes orders from Konoha, but he in no way acts as if he has any allegiance to his old village or anyone there, including his wife and daughter.

 

Naruto lost everyone of his goals — both stated and implied, direct and indirect — while Sasuke was awarded every one of the things he never cared about. And in the end Sasuke is shown still not caring about them. He has a wife, a child, a restarted clan! What does he do? Walks away...for years and years. This was his one stated goal outside of murdering Itachi, restarting his clan. He gets that goal, yet disregards it as if it were a complete nuisance. 

 

It is a completely unsatisfying ending, that only works out for the most implausible pairings. Nothing else was brought full circle for any other character except Sasuke and Hinata. Naruto and Sakura have lost out completely. The story revolved around them, their goals were not met (instead completely subverted for the needs of lesser-deserving characters) so the whole story remains unresolved.

 

Jiraiya would be deeply disappointed.

 

As usual excellent post tricksie!  As for jiraiya oh man he must think he's gusty ninja novel is a huge waste not only that but he's more of loser than we thought he failed to get the girl or any girl,he wasn't as good as his teammates the rival was better than him,he failed to kill pein,he failed to protect his teacher and student, And finally his student failed to change the corrupted ninja system that caused many wars instead he's just following the same old traditions that the past hokages did. Wouldn't this lead into another cycle of hatred? Unless kishi don't use logic. Oh he also failed to get the girl an got with another girl he never genuinely loved , Turned into crappy father that neglects his own child and wife also a whole new movie is supposed to fix that which is lame.

Edited by rikakim94, 05 July 2015 - 05:51 PM.

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

 

As usual excellent post tricksie!  As for jiraiya oh man he must think he's gusty ninja novel is a huge waste not only that but he's more of loser than we thought he failed to get the girl or any girl,he wasn't as good as his teammates the rival was better than him,he failed to kill pein,he failed to protect his teacher and student, And finally his student failed to change the corrupted ninja system that caused many wars instead he's just following the same old traditions that the past hokages did. Wouldn't this lead into another cycle of hatred? Unless kishi don't use logic. Oh he also failed to get the girl an got with another girl he never genuinely loved , Turned into crappy father that neglects his own child and wife also a whole new movie is supposed to fix that which is lame.

As I mentioned somewhere, perhaps Naruto, if he is the so-called "Child of Prophecy", is actually fulfilling the side of bringing about total destruction rather than "true peace" (the "prophecy" said it could go either way). Or Kishi will retcon things again and make Boruto the new "Child of Prophecy" because of how much hate Naruto himself has gotten now (even though logical people hate Boruto just as much, if not more than Naruto).

[Nar123]

As I mentioned somewhere, perhaps Naruto, if he is the so-called "Child of Prophecy", is actually fulfilling the side of bringing about total destruction rather than "true peace" (the "prophecy" said it could go either way). Or Kishi will retcon things again and make Boruto the new "Child of Prophecy" because of how much hate Naruto himself has gotten now (even though logical people hate Boruto just as much, if not more than Naruto).

 

This child of prophecy BS shouldn't have even existed in first place...

Edited by Nar123, 05 July 2015 - 08:13 PM.

[TheFirstEvil100]

 

As usual excellent post tricksie!  As for jiraiya oh man he must think he's gusty ninja novel is a huge waste not only that but he's more of loser than we thought he failed to get the girl or any girl,he wasn't as good as his teammates the rival was better than him,he failed to kill pein,he failed to protect his teacher and student, And finally his student failed to change the corrupted ninja system that caused many wars instead he's just following the same old traditions that the past hokages did. Wouldn't this lead into another cycle of hatred? Unless kishi don't use logic. Oh he also failed to get the girl an got with another girl he never genuinely loved , Turned into crappy father that neglects his own child and wife also a whole new movie is supposed to fix that which is lame.

Oh but remember he never found his Hinata. at least that's what her fans said.