9679 replies to this topic

[Anguyen92]

You know at one point, when our opposition starts to twist meanings of certain moments and everything, it's getting really hard to keep track of their understanding of the point, which makes it harder for us to agree and respect their perspective and opinion. At least with our pairing, the facts and evidence are pretty simple and effective.

Edited by anguyen92, 16 June 2011 - 06:13 PM.

[catsi563]

one thing to keep in mind is that had NH been the goal, the scene with the hug should have been Hinata not Sakura. But Kishimoto-Sensei clearly made his choice and in a single panel showing Hinatas reaction made it clear what her decision was.

[bthug]

And I seriously think ss fans have a thing for sasuke, pretty gay imo

[CloudMountainJuror]

And I seriously think ss fans have a thing for sasuke, pretty gay imo

Same. Seriously, Sasuke is a jerk (it's not bashing because it's true) and has been established as a villain very clearly so far.

[Phantom_999]

Anyway while we wait for another romantic moment, why don't we list some NS stuff we want to see?
I for one want Naruto and Sakura to marry in a few years of the manga timeline and have their first child!

Edited by Phantom_999, 16 June 2011 - 10:59 PM.

[CloudMountainJuror]

All I request for our couple is that there's an on-screen (er...on-panel?) kiss between them... And of course that they become canon.

[ciardha]

Same. Seriously, Sasuke is a jerk (it's not bashing because it's true) and has been established as a villain very clearly so far.

Yeah this is something I don't understand about male fans in lots of fandoms (and in the west that also includes a far number of the writers and editors on superhero comic and TV series and movie staff). Why do they like the brooding, domineering, antisocial characters over the guys that are fun and charismatic but not an Alpha male? You've got Sasuke vs Naruto, Angel vs Spike in BTVS fandom, Magneto vs Gambit in X-men comics, etc.... Even if the brooding, domineering, antisocial guy is the villian and the charming, charismatic but not Alpha male is the hero?

Edited by ciardha, 16 June 2011 - 11:38 PM.

[Chew]

I'd like to see one of two things:

1) I want to see (although there is already a ton) more NaruSaku development and moments (a double-sided confession with a kiss would be nice )

2)
Kabuto: Madara- Madara what's wrong?!?!
Madara: Even with the Juubi on my side...his power level...his power level...IT'S OVER 9000!!!
Kabuto and Madara: !!!
Naruto:

[CloudMountainJuror]

Yeah this is something I don't understand about male fans in lots of fandoms (and in the west that also includes a far number of the writers and editors on superhero comic and TV series and movie staff). Why do they like the brooding, domineering, antisocial characters over the guys that are fun and charismatic but not an Alpha male? You've got Sasuke vs Naruto, Angel vs Spike in BTVS fandom, Magneto vs Gambit in X-men comics, etc.... Even if the brooding, domineering, antisocial guy is the villian and the charming, charismatic but not Alpha male is the hero?

I'm a male fan myself, and I want Sasuke to die. Badly. I dislike him just that much for how he used to reattach Naruto (worse than anyone else did) and how people just completely disregard that.

[The Tax-Man]

Yeah this is something I don't understand about male fans in lots of fandoms (and in the west that also includes a far number of the writers and editors on superhero comic and TV series and movie staff). Why do they like the brooding, domineering, antisocial characters over the guys that are fun and charismatic but not an Alpha male? You've got Sasuke vs Naruto, Angel vs Spike in BTVS fandom, Magneto vs Gambit in X-men comics, etc.... Even if the brooding, domineering, antisocial guy is the villian and the charming, charismatic but not Alpha male is the hero?

Are you sure you didn't mistake 'male' and 'obsessing fangirl-ish females'?

To be honest, that is most of the Sasuke-loving poplulation. That or fans ignorant of the truth regardless of gender. Even so, Sasuke is definitely NOT a villain. He is an ANTI-HERO people! There is a HUGE difference.

[CloudMountainJuror]

Are you sure you didn't mistake 'male' and 'obsessing fangirl-ish females'?

To be honest, that is most of the Sasuke-loving poplulation. That or fans ignorant of the truth regardless of gender. Even so, Sasuke is definitely NOT a villain. He is an ANTI-HERO people! There is a HUGE difference.

How is he not a villain? And, in turn, how is he an anti-hero?

[The Tax-Man]

How is he not a villain? And, in turn, how is he an anti-hero?

A villain, by definition, is the/an antagonist. Plain. Anti-hero... well he isn't exactly that, but he is close. He isn't your classical villain in that he isn't inherently evil and is closer to the protagonist side than an antagonist. With his story, intentions, conditions, the way this story works etc., he is definitely not a villain. Basically he's better than a plain villain but not even close to being as good as an anti-hero, which he'll probably end up in the end. If he is redeemed, he wont go any farther than that, in my opinion.

Insanity isn't criminality.

[Super Boom]

Even so, Sasuke is definitely NOT a villain. He is an ANTI-HERO people! There is a HUGE difference.

Depends on your perspective, I guess. "Anti-hero" is sort of a loose term, but, from what I've seen, it's either a protagonist who acts through dubious or impure motives (ex. Vegeta from Dragonball Z), or an antagonist who elicits sympathy from the reader/viewer in some way (ex. Lelouch from Code Geass, Light Yagami from Death Note). In my eyes, Sasuke was an anti-hero in the first group up until, or maybe a little before, the Iron Country Arc. After that, Sasuke MIGHT be included in the second group, but I personally feel like his character isn't being written that way. I mean, is even possible to sympathize with him anymore? Or, at the very least, is it possible to justify his actions towards Sakura and Karin?
I think, at this point in the plot, it's safe to call him an actual antagonist, but his conclusion could possibly turn him into a tragic hero. I suppose it's also possible that he's simply a Byronic hero who is currently being written as an antagonist, but we should see how it turns out before making that conclusion.

Edited by Boom...Winning, 17 June 2011 - 12:33 AM.

[The Tax-Man]

Depends on your perspective, I guess. "Anti-hero" is sort of a loose term, but, from what I've seen, it's either a protagonist who acts through dubious or impure motives (ex. Vegeta from Dragonball Z), or an antagonist who elicits sympathy from the reader/viewer in some way (ex. Lelouch from Code Geass, Light Yagami from Death Note). In my eyes, Sasuke was an anti-hero in the first group up until, or maybe a little before, the Iron Country Arc. After that, Sasuke MIGHT be included in the second group, but I personally feel like his character isn't being written that way. I mean, is even possible to sympathize with him anymore? Or, at the very least, is it possible to justify his actions towards Sakura and Karin?
I think, at this point in the plot, it's safe to call him an actual antagonist, but his conclusion could possibly turn him into a tragic hero. I suppose it's also possible that he's simply a Byronic hero who is currently being written as an antagonist, but we should see how it turns out before making that conclusion.

Exactly the term I was looking for. That's really what Sasuke is. Easy to see.

[Anguyen92]

Huh, well what do you know he is that kind of guy, the byronic hero, and btw, it says here that a byronic hero is "Seductive and sexually attractive," shudders......

[CloudMountainJuror]

Huh, well what do you know he is that kind of guy, the byronic hero, and btw, it says here that a byronic hero is "Seductive and sexually attractive," shudders......

If you count "seductive" as killing the chicks that obsessed over you

[Amrikandesi93]

I really just wanna see a solid NaruSaku scene with no interference from another person and nothing to do with nh or ss.

So SS shippers think that Sakura thinking about Naruto in the Pein fight is a SS moment/reference? And the one where she thinks about sasuke evilly surrounded by flames is also a SS moment? Man those moments are the exact opposites of each other! How can anyone think those are SS moments?

I didn't even believe that there were SS shippers or NH shippers before i started going to narutofan and onemanga forums,(back when i read the manga without shipping any pairing) but i still knew that NS was the only way to go, I never once had a thought that SS or NH was even a possibility.

Sorry if that was considered bashing, I just wanted to say that.

[bthug]

Ciardha while ur here I've been wanting to ask u something

I was googling (lol) Narusaku stuff and a post of yours from another site popped up and it was how u were convinced that Naruto and Sakura would have a baby while presumably and adult Naruto is going to fight sasuke, just like Minato vs Madara and how Naruto was born on that day

I was wondering could u further elaborate?

[ciardha]

Are you sure you didn't mistake 'male' and 'obsessing fangirl-ish females'?

To be honest, that is most of the Sasuke-loving poplulation.

Uh no, take a trip over to Narutofan and the Naruto forum on Mangahelpers, or any other general Naruto forum... The overwhelming majority of rabid Sasuke fans- that hate Naruto and constantly bash Sakura, even while they call themselves sasusaku shippers- are male. (it's the naruhina shippers that look to be at least half female).

Like I said I've seen the same phenomenon in other fandoms, quite rabidly in X-men comic fandom and BTVS fandom too. and included professional writers and editors and TV and movie people. Rabid contempt for Naruto, Gambit, and Spike, while fawning adoration as the most uber character ever for Sasuke, Magneto and Angel. All three of the later brooding, domineering and antisocial while the former three are fun, charismatic and not Alpha males with a definite romantic streak.

The female faction is easy to explain- women are still socialized in our culture to want find an Alpha male- lots of women reject this, but enough of the socialization is there to strongly influence some women. But why the guys? That's what I've never understood. Wouldn't you rather like the fun, charismatic guy? Especially in X-men and BTVS fandom where Gambit and Spike were known by even the male writers, editors, directors to be strikingly more popular with the female fans than Magneto and Angel.

Ciardha while ur here I've been wanting to ask u something

I was googling (lol) Narusaku stuff and a post of yours from another site popped up and it was how u were convinced that Naruto and Sakura would have a baby while presumably and adult Naruto is going to fight sasuke, just like Minato vs Madara and how Naruto was born on that day

I was wondering could u further elaborate?

Just the strong paralleling with Minato and Kushina, and what sure looks like foundation laying for Naruto and Sakura getting together and having a baby before the end of the manga. I've talked about it on this forum too, and quite recently.

Edited by ciardha, 17 June 2011 - 02:48 AM.

[crazyefra]

Uh no, take a trip over to Narutofan and the Naruto forum on Mangahelpers, or any other general Naruto forum... The overwhelming majority of rabid Sasuke fans- that hate Naruto and constantly bash Sakura, even while they call themselves sasusaku shippers- are male. (it's the naruhina shippers that look to be at least half female).

Like I said I've seen the same phenomenon in other fandoms, quite rabidly in X-men comic fandom and BTVS fandom too. and included professional writers and editors and TV and movie people. Rabid contempt for Naruto, Gambit, and Spike, while fawning adoration as the most uber character ever for Sasuke, Magneto and Angel. All three of the later brooding, domineering and antisocial while the former three are fun, charismatic and not Alpha males with a definite romantic streak.

The female faction is easy to explain- women are still socialized in our culture to want find an Alpha male- lots of women reject this, but enough of the socialization is there to strongly influence some women. But why the guys? That's what I've never understood. Wouldn't you rather like the fun, charismatic guy? Especially in X-men and BTVS fandom where Gambit and Spike were known by even the male writers, editors, directors to be strikingly more popular with the female fans than Magneto and Angel.



Just the strong paralleling with Minato and Kushina, and what sure looks like foundation laying for Naruto and Sakura getting together and having a baby before the end of the manga. I've talked about it on this forum too, and quite recently.

That's weird, the majority of the SS fans (and NH fans) I've been able to meet have been girls (maybe that's latino girls' mentality or I just don't care).