749 replies to this topic

[TouKen4Life3g]

Even before the ending, sakura love sasuke.
I don't think it's debatable.

Why it's a big deal that sakura love sasuke?
Does it mean naruto has no chance to win sakura hearth?

It will be over if sasuke love sakura back making ss mutual love and not oneside.

In my opinion, it was. I mean it could have been just a crush that can easily change a thought. But Kishi pretty much now said it's love, love that can never be broken. It's like seeing a movie in the very beginning with an actor who starts off with bad acting, you laugh and think it's comedy moment, only to realize that he's really acting and you got to suffer through his horrendous performance. I didn't think her love was all genuine and can never be broken, yet it's terrible and he wants us to take it serious.

I mean I guess you can say it is love, sure. That's fine to me. I am only thinking that it's debatable on how strong her love was. Apparently, it's unbreakable, no matter the murder and bad mouth attempts.

[NeonRanger]

It doesn't really matter whether Kishi said Sakura was in love or "addicted", in the end SS happened because of NH. 

 

The minute Naruto even reached success, the series lost originality. It was going to be milked 'til people are just done with it. Part 3 was inevitable. Whether it be about Naruto during the era of peace, something like Kakashi Gaiden, or, what we have right now, a new generation. 

 

Hinata was increasing in popularity, Sakura was decreasing. Fans pushed Kishi in the end and he was convinced that Hinata was indefinitely a better choice for Naruto, which is why they are canon. Not many cared enough about Sakura, we are in the minority, when it came to her ending so Kishi had to decide himself, which is SS for the sake of a kid. After that Sakura was dropped as heroine.

 

Sakura was pairing fodder the minute Kishi green light The Last. 

Edited by NeonRanger, 09 March 2016 - 11:56 AM.

[rocci]

In my opinion, it was. I mean it could have been just a crush that can easily change a thought. But Kishi pretty much now said it's love, love that can never be broken. It's like seeing a movie in the very beginning with an actor who starts off with bad acting, you laugh and think it's comedy moment, only to realize that he's really acting and you got to suffer through his horrendous performance. I didn't think her love was all genuine and can never be broken, yet it's terrible and he wants us to take it serious.

I mean I guess you can say it is love, sure. That's fine to me. I am only thinking that it's debatable on how strong her love was. Apparently, it's unbreakable, no matter the murder and bad mouth attempts.

What I mean as sakura love sasuke is as in love/romantic love.
That's what happen in the manga, even before the ending and even before kage summit arc.

I don't think her Love is unbreakable or genuine or bitter sweet or whatever romantic story ever make, because the one thing that can break it is naruto confession. Sai confession doesn't count as naruto one.

This is why I never afraid to acknowledge that sakura love sasuke, because it doesn't mean kitten if sasuke doesn't love her back. Because naruto confession will be the game changer. Why do you think there's no naruto confession?

@james
You don't need to tell how bad kishi writing.

[rocci]

@neon ranger
Tbf, naruto is never original from beginning.

It can happen like that, sakura gave up on sasuke, thus making her feeling neutral or just go to naruto.
But I think it will be fine if she still love sasuke as long as it doesn't make her pathetic. Because that's what kishi do with her character. The same thing happen with his patheticness that damaging his character.

That's why sakura lack in development hurt her character more than her popularity.

Oh and sakura is the romantic subplot of this manga.
And the romantic subplot of this manga is naruto sakura sasuke (one side) love triangle. And not Hinata naruto sakura (one side) love triangle.

Edited by rocci, 09 March 2016 - 12:07 PM.

[Tsuki Hoshino]

The Kage Summit Arc is one of the worst Arcs ever for Sakura, pre-War Arc and Ending. It was the Arc that Haters would rub on pro Sakura fans faces. It was also the Arc that grew the most Haters. Kishi was addressed about the Summit Arc in JF. Even the JP fans say that Sakura was not acting as a heroine from that Arc, and that lately Hinata was given more of a heroine role. 

 

In the west, excluding majority SNS shippers, majority of Sakura haters wanted Sakura to do one thing; stab Sasuke. 

 

You have a confession that is controversial against pro/antis, her drugging her own teammates, her not stabbing Sasuke just after he attempted to kill her once, bringing Naruto and Kakash into rescuing her, for her to make the final decision that she will now let Naruto and Sasuke deal with each other, stay in the background, when previously she stated how she will fight together with Naruto for Sasuke. She didn't act like a heroine at all from this arc. 

 

If Sakura even gave Sasuke a cut, not actually stab him, it would have at least gave notice to Sakura's growth, that this is no longer the same Sasuke and that she is over her crush and that she is doing this for Naruto.

 

But she didn't. And worse, she was having flashbacks of her moments with Sasuke part 1, which heavily implies that Sasuke still has a soft spot in her heart. It would have been fine if Sasuke hadn't tried to murder her the first time behind her back. 

 

I agree with antis in that this arc gave no importance to Sakura other than create problems that would have been avoided of dealt with properly. Kishi did not have to plot Sakura drugging her teammates, or write her still being in love with Sasuke. 

 

Agree.

I actually really, really, really liked the Kage arc-well at parts I did...It was a Hit and a Miss for me. I thought she was more heroine like there then she had been in a very long time...She was willing-at the very least to either DIE or kill someone she loved for someone else she loved for the good of others....she was ready to do a "bad" thing to do a good thing. It was the most Ninja moment in a long time in a series that lacked the very thing it was built on.

the person who came off the worst IMO opinion wasn't Sakura but Naruto who saw his aggressive-psycho friend, who once tried to kill him, try to kill the girl he claimed to love, and his teacher and just said "hur der huurr de huuur i will save u! or die trying." Nice reasoning skills that one.


As stated before, Kishimoto is an inconsistent writer. Like a mystery bag, sometimes you get awesome things and other times you get a pile of kitten. 

 

[TouKen4Life3g]

What I mean as sakura love sasuke is as in love/romantic love.
That's what happen in the manga, even before the ending and even before kage summit arc.

I don't think her Love is unbreakable or genuine or bitter sweet or whatever romantic story ever make, because the one thing that can break it is naruto confession. Sai confession doesn't count as naruto one.

This is why I never afraid to acknowledge that sakura love sasuke, because it doesn't mean kitten if sasuke doesn't love her back. Because naruto confession will be the game changer. Why do you think there's no naruto confession?

@james
You don't need to tell how bad kishi writing.

Well, yeah, Sakura loves Sasuke.

My point is that I didn't think it was meant to take it seriously like we really was supposed to root for Sakura to win Sasuke, but all I got is "Leave him. He's not worth it." The story never made me think the former because didn't Kishi claim it to be selfish and pretty much a negative trait to her? So how is this any better? They didn't get stuck on a island and have a day together solo to get all the developments they can get out of it. Where's the growth?

That's another problem. You believe that Naruto's confession could change her mind; however, Kishi never wrote it, so it only came off as a bad writing because you want to get rid of all possibilities or most logical ones to finally have a closure. Instead, we presumed that they did talk and Sakura concluded that Naruto only loves her for rivalry sake. That's magnificent. How is a simple rejection so hard to write? Yes, I know the real purpose but it's downright insulting to not just pairing fans but in general. You pretty much have the mentality of "No one will notice" when really, you wrote it for so long, how can we forget it.

Yes, that does connect to his writing as well. He has that "move forward and never looking back." Only time he does is flashback of SNS, so we can be reminded for 20th time on how deep their bond is.

[Yyubie]

See ??? even some of you here are misunderstood Sakura in Land of Iron/Kage Summit Arc. The moment the idea of killing the person you love CROSS in your brain is the moment you should ask yourself "Is this love?" . There is always ANOTHER way, killing will never solve the problem.

 

Sakura knows HOW FAR Naruto will go for Sasuke, she witness him relying on Kyubi power and transform into 4 tail shes running towards him while crying and getting hit because she doesn't want to see Naruto to be consume by Kyubi, she knows Naruto can no longer continue the mission to pursue Orochimaru after that transformation even Yamato said Naruto is incredible to hold that pain when Sakura suffer from just one hit from 4 tail and she barely can hide it from Naruto.

 

Naruto got beaten to pulp by Karui and then goes begging bowing his head to Raikage, Sakura knows how painful all of that is, she can't bear to see that in her minds it needs to stop.

IF SHE LOVES SASUKE why care that much for Naruto ?? up to the point you rather killing the person you love for just  A BEST FRIENDS at most??? Is that love??? SHE DOESN'T WANT TO LOSE NARUTO SHE RATHER LOSE SASUKE INSTEAD.

 

Ending your best friends suffering is more important than the lives of the person you loves??? i mean come on ... even dumbest person knows Sakura LOVE Naruto, Its just her OBSESSION towards Sasuke makes her BLIND and CLOUDED HER TRUE FEELINGS FOR NARUTO. Even the DATA BOOK confirm She used to have a CRUSH for Sasuke and as for her feelings for NARUTO SHE DON'T KNOW ...

I mean why the hell you write that in her data book??? She don't know her own feelings for Naruto?? whats that suppose to mean?? You could say that's an old Data book from way back there years ago, but that is EXACTLY WHY it MATTERS. The old data still FAR more trustworthy rather than todays interview.

[Tsuki Hoshino]

Well, if its put like that you could question how great Naruto's love for Sakura was considering he seemed to put Sasuke over her...I'm just playing devil's advocate with this, but he was angry for like 30secs every time Sasuke did something threatening/cruel to her.  It didn't seem all that big of a deal to Naruto in retrospect. 

[rocci]

Well, if its put like that you could question how great Naruto's love for Sakura was considering he seemed to put Sasuke over her...I'm just playing devil's advocate with this, but he was angry for like 30secs every time Sasuke did something threatening/cruel to her.  It didn't seem all that big of a deal to Naruto in retrospect. 

That's one of the reason why narusasu has a "legitimate" standing to become canon pairing, even if I despise it.
They're the otp of the author after all.

@touken
Pretty much.

The only one who will root sakura love sasuke is ss fan or nh because they need to get rid of sakura.

[Tsuki Hoshino]

Narusasu does seem closer to canon, with NS behind it if we go by behavior and development...

I don't like it either but i can admit that Naruto put Sasuke above everything, and Sasuke only really saw Naruto. 

It wouldn't be a HEALTHY relationship though. More like toxic and disastrous like every Sasuke/____ one. 

[TouKen4Life3g]

I wouldn't mind yaoi but the problem is that the bond between them doesn't have that merit to say it's strong. It's only strong because one couldn't let go. It's not really strong on seeing how they develop as strong friends or any chemistry they have. There should have been one more arc with them only and make it believable as it can as well as cut short on chasing after Sasuke because the longer it goes on, the more it seems rather ridiculous. It doesn't help that Sasuke doesn't think of him as well.

[Tsuki Hoshino]

I agree that the relationship in GENERAL makes no sense. Naruto looks like an obsessive fool falling all over himself trying to get the time of day from someone who doesn't really care-with the exception of feeling JEALOUS of him and his abilities. 

But like i said, the relationship wouldn't be a healthy one on either side if canon events/behaviors that we have now and nothing more were what we went by.

Of course, we would have to also discount the fact that Naruto is pretty freaking straight and has expressed that multiple times...Sasuke is questionable. 

[totherpage95]

Statement: Kabuto has said that Uzumaki have red hair, thus making Karin as one. In hindsight, it's practically meaningless and asspull.

Agree or disagree?

agree

[NeonRanger]

I wouldn't mind yaoi but the problem is that the bond between them doesn't have that merit to say it's strong. It's only strong because one couldn't let go. It's not really strong on seeing how they develop as strong friends or any chemistry they have. There should have been one more arc with them only and make it believable as it can as well as cut short on chasing after Sasuke because the longer it goes on, the more it seems rather ridiculous. It doesn't help that Sasuke doesn't think of him as well.

 

I agree that the relationship in GENERAL makes no sense. Naruto looks like an obsessive fool falling all over himself trying to get the time of day from someone who doesn't really care-with the exception of feeling JEALOUS of him and his abilities. 

But like i said, the relationship wouldn't be a healthy one on either side if canon events/behaviors that we have now and nothing more were what we went by.

Of course, we would have to also discount the fact that Naruto is pretty freaking straight and has expressed that multiple times...Sasuke is questionable. 

 

I found a rant (coming from an HashiMada shipper) about how SNS is not a perfect ship:

 

 

pikacheeka-movedanswered:

In a word? Delusional.

In detail? There’s no substance there. NaruSasu shippers were more or less guaranteed some sappy heart-to-heart between the two at some point in the series, and because there’s absolutely nothing else to go on in 697 chapters, they’re clinging to it.

The Naruto-Sasuke relationship is easily the worst in the manga, as well as the worst I have ever seen in a work of fiction (ouch; that hurts considering how much I have read). It is purported to be this intense, deep, loving friendship, but it is never portrayed as such (at least not in a remotely realistic or believable manner) in the manga. The Naruto-Sasuke relationship only exists because Kishimoto TELLS us it exists. He does not properly show us; when he tries to show us, it is inconsistent, uncomfortable, forced, and very unrealistic.Kishimoto knows this. He knows he failed at writing their relationship. He has even admitted this, and as recently as 2013 he said that Sasuke does not care about Naruto.

I don’t care if Naruto and Sasuke professed their love for one another in the last chapter. I don’t care if they had wild sex in the last chapter. I don’t care what was said or done between them, because at this point in the manga, it’s too late. Their relationship has been built on years and years of objectification, obsession, avoidance, jealousy, insecurity, disinterest, disgust, purposeful neglect, and, most important, a mutual total disregard for the emotional well-being of the other party. Unlike with other pairings/potential pairings in this series that eventually darkened, these are not stains that can be washed away; these are the pillars that their relationship had been built on from the beginning.

The Naruto-Sasuke relationship in general is an utter travesty. The concept of them as an actual pairing is nothing but sheer delusion.

 

SasuSaku is the worst by far, but I see SNS as the same. But a lot of shippers who ship any Sasuke ship are mostly apologist. For me NS was the only ship that had a two-sided relationship, whether platonic or romantic:

 

 

Oh please. Get this damage control out of the HashiMada tag. Cute and fluffy? Reducing Hashirama, who killed Madara, into a “goofy guy who never turns his back on his friend”?  

Here are just some of the reasons why HashiMada is not at all like NaruSasu, and why it’s significantly more believable and yes, better:

• Hashirama and Madara bonded in a positive manner, developing a normal/believable friendship that eventually became rivalry. Naruto and Sasuke had a relationship founded on animosity and rivalry that never properly developed into a believable friendship. Sure, Kishimoto tried to retcon in a few cute childhood moments later but the SN “friendship” was clearly rivals first, friends later. Don’t bother claiming Hashirama’s “I’m your rival” joke about rockskipping is equatable to Naruto and Sasuke being kitten to each other for years. 
• Hashirama and Madara have a friendship we have seen develop. They spent time as children playing together, telling one another their fears and hopes, fighting together, and dreaming together. Naruto and Sasuke have a friendship we are told just came out of nowhere “because they speak through fists”. Never mind that HM had this friendship developed within mere chapters, while SN had hundreds of chapters to do it, and still failed.
• Hashirama and Madara were initially forced apart by circumstance. Naruto and Sasuke were never forced apart at all. There was no realistic way that Madara or Hashirama could have stayed together after their fathers attacked their siblings. Madara literally had no choice in the matter and it killed him inside. Sasuke cut off his friendship with Naruto out of pride and he only was upset by it when Naruto started stalking him.
• Both Hashirama and Madara have put aside all of their pride for one another multiple times despite Madara struggling with his inferiority complex. Both Naruto and Sasuke have proven they are still more interested in being better than the other than making up. There has never been much interest in the emotional well being of the other in the SN friendship.
• Hashirama respected Madara enough to keep his distance much of the time, and when he reached out, Madara took his hand. Naruto objectified and obsessively chased Sasuke for years, and every time he reached for him, Sasuke slapped him in the face.
• Hashirama wanted to save Madara, and still wanted to be with him in the very end even after Madara destroyed the world, because he genuinely cares about him.Naruto sees Sasuke as a goal and is more interested in “saving” Sasuke so he can move on and become Hokage than he is about saving Sasuke to save Sasuke, and he as much admitted this multiple times. 
• Hashirama has made it a major part of his life to understand Madara. Naruto forces his opinion on Sasuke and he doesn’t care about his side of the story or his reasons for doing things. Again, their emotional relationship comes down to them just punching each other, but never does one show much interest in understanding the past and motivations of the other.
• And, most importantly, Hashirama and Madara SHARED THE SAME DREAM and WORKED TOWARDS A COMMON GOAL.Naruto and Sasuke never had any of that. The closest you can get is that they both wanted to be Hokage (a last minute asspull for Sasuke), but this was for radically different reasons, and independently of one another. Hashirama and Madara had ONE dream, together.

That’s just from a general perspective on their relationship. HashiMada is significantly more complex and believable than NaruSasu. It has significantly more emotional depth to it. It is significantly better-written. 

If you want to take this into pairing land, here you go:

• Hashirama and Madara have a relationship that is not based off of the relationship Kishimoto has with his twin brother, as Kishi has repeatedly said about Naruto & Sasuke. Meanwhile he never said any such thing about HashiMada, and instead just continued to drop the hints of romantic love and sexual tension between them.
• HashiMada has major romantic and sexual undertones in it, and these are literally nonexistent in NaruSasu. If anyone reads them into the relationship, then good for them (sorry but all you can do is repeatedly point to an accidental kiss that they were both disgusted by), but Kishi never intended anyone to do that. 
• Madara never had a woman in his life and indeed said he disliked women, while Hashirama only married someone (who he cared so little about that he literally never mentioned or even thought about her) after he believed Madara to be dead. Meanwhile Naruto and Sasuke…HMM. Nope.

So please stop this.

[Tsuki Hoshino]

I've always said, and will continue to say that NS is the healthiest, well developed, NORMAL relationship in the manga...and  then it got nuked

Any pairing with Sasuke in it is bound to be all sorts of icky...

[NeonRanger]

I can acknowledge that the SNS bond is the most important bond in the manga (Kishi made sure of that), but I wouldn't want it canon the same reason why I didn't want SS; all Sasuke ships are toxic and obsessive. That's why I ship NaruGaa, because it started out rough, but ended in a way that one can find sense in the ship. 

 

And on NF I found the interview where Kishi states that Sasuke doesn't care about Naruto. SNS was just a bond stretch out throughout the manga for what reason, IDK, to a point where you can't even criticize their bond logically without being homophobic. 

 

I've would have been fine with any Sasuke ship overall, if Kishi just made at least one scene where Sasuke actually gave a crap about Naruto/ Sakura/ Karin in part 2 and felt any remorse for what he did. Sasuke only cared about Itachi. Sasuke never gave a crap about Sakura and Karin and it took 698 chapters for Naruto to actually get through to him.  

[TouKen4Life3g]

SNS massive showcase was most likely done for fans wise as in something to drool over or whatever. Not saying he wouldn't done any SNS but the idea of hammering it in most likely stem from it.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

Honestly, the one relationship for Sasuke I see that actually could be two-sided is his bond with Karin, since we saw that he knew how strong Karin was, something he never truly meant with Sakura, and that he also had cared about her, even if he had gone up and down both sides of Psycho Street after Itachi's death and his desire to kill Danzo just to make himself feel better, as well as how he was able to gain a new power like dispersing Amaterasu's flames to save Karin from dying from them. And all Karin wanted was to see Sasuke smile again and for him to be happy, and Kishi screwed that up just because he gave up. X-P

[catsi563]

thread derailed slightly

 

to the original question.

 

Disagree the land of iron arc much  like the rest of the manga had great potential for character development for Sakura and should have been used as a smalls tumble in NaruSakus relationship that they then recover from and become stronger then ever.

 

but again like all things in the manga it was wasted and the moment lost to the ending.
 

what trully irks me about this scene in particular is that its conclusion in the ending gives meat to Haters arguments about Sakura being manipulative and using Naruto. we know this is false but with the ending now impossible to dispute.

[James S Cassidy]

@james
You don't need to tell how bad kishi writing.

Honestly, I do, because everyone wants to forget that the whole reason why this mess even exists is BECAUSE of that bad writing and his inability to take a stand on something or actually make a progress.

 

It doesn't really matter whether Kishi said Sakura was in love or "addicted", in the end SS happened because of NH. 

 

The minute Naruto even reached success, the series lost originality. It was going to be milked 'til people are just done with it. Part 3 was inevitable. Whether it be about Naruto during the era of peace, something like Kakashi Gaiden, or, what we have right now, a new generation. 

 

Hinata was increasing in popularity, Sakura was decreasing. Fans pushed Kishi in the end and he was convinced that Hinata was indefinitely a better choice for Naruto, which is why they are canon. Not many cared enough about Sakura, we are in the minority, when it came to her ending so Kishi had to decide himself, which is SS for the sake of a kid. After that Sakura was dropped as heroine.

 

Sakura was pairing fodder the minute Kishi green light The Last. 

And look what happened.....the series is seen as trash, most of the fandom either hates this series or abandoned it entirely, and every character is seen as garbage or worse. No one likes the main character and the story is so out of whack and out of place that Kishimoto had to get SEVERAL OTHER WRITERS to even begin to try and supposedly "fix the series" which it is not doing any good.

I shouldn't have to read the Hiden novels and watch a stupid movie to "explain" how the ending occurred and even then it solved nothing and made matters worse.

Do any of them still think it was all worth it and a good idea or are they as delusional as the pro-enders?

As I said...no matter what, Sakura was going to be hated, but I put my life savings down right now ($10,000) that if it was the NS pairing that became canon along with Naruto and Sasuke really filling out the dream of making a new world....the series would have seen a lot more positive reviews from the fandom.

And honestly, would have making NS and SK canon really not allowed a part 3? Or is it that they really wanted to make the kids messed up in the head?

All that popularity means nothing now.

Edited by James S Cassidy, 09 March 2016 - 07:24 PM.