831 replies to this topic

[narusaku256]

i know his thinking of sasuke and . chasing over him this whole time he is over doing it but i i always understood that . naruto is doing this cause sasuke was his first friend and he felt how sasuke was lonely . thats why he tries to save him hard cause he is trying to save sasuke like he was saved.. i took it as he is trying to save his first friend that he lost fast. i never took it as he is trying to save his great friend or his best friend. thats why i said did naruto said this anywhere. so did he actually say it or the fans just saw it that way?

If you want to know how people think Naruto should be.....everyone feels like he should be like Hashriama. They don't have objection over him saving Sasuke but they have objection over the way he does it....

Edited by narusaku256, 31 July 2014 - 08:12 AM.

[James S Cassidy]

It's the same problem but the degree is different. That's why I'm asking this question.

You're right. At least Obito was once an actual good guy that was corrupted instead of always just treating people like crap, feeling superior, and pretending only he matters in the world. So when it comes to Obito there is at least something redeemable about him. Can't really say the same for Sasuke.

I think this is why I have more respect for Obito. Sure, he did some bad things, but at least he wasn't a jerkass to people and actually tried to complete his goal unlike you know who being changed due to a simple bedtime story.

Sasuke: The Diet Coke of Evil

Edited by James S Cassidy, 31 July 2014 - 08:31 AM.

[only Naruto]

If you want to know how people think Naruto should be.....everyone feels like he should be like Hashriama. They don't have objection over him saving Sasuke but they have objection over the way he does it....

ok . but how is hashiramas way different  than narutos way . isnt he worst than naruto (trying to kill himself for madara) lol. . . and  after james showed me the panel . i think naruto was trying to make sasuke remember the good moments when he actually was (a jerk but not evil) . and its the same when he reminded him of the bridge moment .and asking him to thank sakura and obito. my point is he is trying to be so nice to sasuke cause he is like a stubborn child  lol.

[James S Cassidy]

ok . but how is hashiramas way different  than narutos way . isnt he worst than naruto (trying to kill himself for madara) lol. . . and  after james showed me the panel . i think naruto was trying to make sasuke remember the good moments when he actually was (a jerk but not evil) . and its the same when he reminded him of the bridge moment .and asking him to thank sakura and obito. my point is he is trying to be so nice to sasuke cause he is like a stubborn child  lol.

Regardless, I think somewhere down the line we all have a moment of facepalming Naruto's logic. For some it is with Obito, others it is with Sasuke. It may be with different people, but it is the same type of logic where people fear Naruto is too forgiving.

Then again, if Naruto wasn't forgiving he would be no better than Sasuke and Madara. He is meant to end the circle of hatred, not continue it. So despite how many hate Naruto's logic (myself included), he is doing exactly what he said he would. At least for once someone in this manga practices what they preach.

Edited by James S Cassidy, 31 July 2014 - 09:00 AM.

[only Naruto]

You're right. At least Obito was once an actual good guy that was corrupted instead of always just treating people like crap, feeling superior, and pretending only he matters in the world. So when it comes to Obito there is at least something redeemable about him. Can't really say the same for Sasuke.

I think this is why I have more respect for Obito. Sure, he did some bad things, but at least he wasn't a jerkass to people and actually tried to complete his goal unlike you know who being changed due to a simple bedtime story.

Sasuke: The Diet Coke of Evil

 i also dont understand how people say sasuke is better than obito . while he is cold and had the same intentions to do the same as obito .( killing his friends and everyone who stand in his way + destroying the village of konoha) what makes me laugh is that the irony made obito stopping sasuke from trying to kill naruto sakura and kakashi in 483. and obito stopped him from trying to destroy the village after pain destroyed it. ( i know obito didnt do them cause he was good but because he had other plans. . my point is that sasuke should be thankful to obito for stopping him ) and for me when sasuke having the intention for killing and destroying  but didnt do them cause he was stopped . doesnt make him better than obito who wasnt stopped by anyone.? . to me evil sasuke = evil obito .    good obito > cold sasuke .

[narusaku256]

ok . but how is hashiramas way different  than narutos way . isnt he worst than naruto (trying to kill himself for madara) lol. . . and  after james showed me the panel . i think naruto was trying to make sasuke remember the good moments when he actually was (a jerk but not evil) . and its the same when he reminded him of the bridge moment .and asking him to thank sakura and obito. my point is he is trying to be so nice to sasuke cause he is like a stubborn child  lol.

Hashirama never went ass licking to madara and neither did he downgrade himself for Madara. Sure he wished Madara should join him, but him leaving the village did not deter Hashirama form what he wanted to do. He wanted to save Madara for sure but his defection never bothered Hashirama's motives. He was never like 'Madara....Madara....Madara!!!!' No! What Naruto is doing is good but he should stop giving Sasuke so much importance. Sure, he needs Sasuke to seal Kaguya but we have always seen Naruto hold his ground against Kaguya alone which is not the case with Sasuke. He NEEDS Naruto. I guarantee you that Shikamaru, Kiba, Gaara and even Shino for that matter have been better friends to Naruto than Sasuke. I need not say how great of a friend Shikamaru and Gaara have been...towards Naruto! 

 

No one against Naruto's idea of saving Sasuke but we have a problem with how he goes about it. He goes on to say, "Afterall....me and Sasuke are great friends" when Sasuke is hell bent on killing Naruto nad tailed beasts and tearing down the whole shinobi system. Nagato, Kurama, Zabuza they were all hell bent on killing Naruto, but Zabuza gave Naruto a purpose and what it was....to be a shinobi! Nagato gave Naruto the biggest aim of his life and he worked his way towards redemption by using his life to give life to the ones he killed, though he was still out of chakra to revive everyone..but still! Kurama....this fox wanted to kill Naruto from day one and I need not tell you how great friends they are right now. e turned his worst enemy into his friend and a burden into his advantage. Currently on the field, there is no strategist who equals Kurama! Not even Sasuke! Kurama's foresight is amazing!!!!! At the start of part 2 when he first saw Sasuke he already told him "Don't kill Naruto! You will regret killing him later!"....Kurama is ready to put his life on the line for Naruto! He doesn't care how much chakra he needs to mould or how much he has to bear, all he doe sis support Naruto in however way he can! Part 1 Sasuke did that I agree.....but what has Par 2 Sasuke did....apart from inflicting pain to him?

Edited by narusaku256, 31 July 2014 - 09:12 AM.

[六道仙人]

so far three different translations for the last part (cool,badass, and handsome)

Thank you for your interpretation though

 

cool, badass and handsome are synonymous lol
 

[only Naruto]

Regardless, I think somewhere down the line we all have a moment of facepalming Naruto's logic. For some it is with Obito, others it is with Sasuke. It may be with different people, but it is the same type of logic where people fear Naruto is too forgiving.

Then again, if Naruto wasn't forgiving he would be no better than Sasuke and Madara.

thank u . thats my point . some people made taking revenge as the right/better thing to do . while forgiving a person who regret what he did and believes he is not worth of saving and making his best to help the good side. as a bad /wrong thing ..? . while it should have been the opposite as i see things maybe am the wrong one here 

[James S Cassidy]

 i also dont understand how people say sasuke is better than obito . while he is cold and had the same intentions to do the same as obito .( killing his friends and everyone who stand in his way + destroying the village of konoha) what makes me laugh is that the irony made obito stopping sasuke from trying to kill naruto sakura and kakashi in 483. and obito stopped him from trying to destroy the village after pain destroyed it. ( i know obito didnt do them cause he was good but because he had other plans. . my point is that sasuke should be thankful to obito for stopping him ) and for me when sasuke having the intention for killing and destroying  but didnt do them cause he was stopped . doesnt make him better than obito who wasnt stopped by anyone.? . to me evil sasuke = evil obito .    good obito > cold sasuke .

That's how I feel and it is where I draw the line to separate them. Just because you do good things doesn't make you a good person and that's what people keep saying: "Sasuke did some good things, so he is not all bad." He still treated Sakura less than dirt and felt himself superior. Not only that, but when he was proven wrong, he threw a hissyfit.

Obito...he was a child, but never acted like a child. When the time came for it, he stood up and was willing to die for it. Yeah, he made wrong choices, but he had heart...all he needed was to find that heart again.

Let me put it this way: If Obito was placed in Sasuke's situation, he would never have gone down that dark path at all.

Edited by James S Cassidy, 31 July 2014 - 09:09 AM.

[narusaku256]

thank u . thats my point . some people made taking revenge as the right/better thing to do . while forgiving a person who regret what he did and believes he is not worth of saving and making his best to help the good side. as a bad /wrong thing ..? . while it should have been the opposite as i see things maybe am the wrong one here 

Sure forgive Sasuke but when? When he genuinely feels bad for what he did, he shows remorse that what he did was absolutely wrong, what he did to Naruto and Sakura was worst and he is now ready to make up for it no matter how. If he is ready to do this, he deserves a redemption!

[Lilac]

I said Obito has done worse than Sasuke has, I wouldn't say "better". He's only attempted murder a few times and killed Danzo (not a great guy) and Itachi (sort of had it coming) Obito has a large body count, which includes Naruto's parents and Neji. If Kishimoto thinks Obito is the coolest guy ever for doing all that, then what must he think of Sasuke?

[James S Cassidy]

Sure forgive Sasuke but when? When he genuinely feels bad for what he did, he shows remorse that what he did was absolutely wrong, what he did to Naruto and Sakura was worst and he is now ready to make up for it no matter how. If he is ready to do this, he deserves a redemption!

I bring this to question a lot, but many seem to cop-out of answering:

If Naruto was put into a choice of either Save Sasuke or Save his entire village and everyone in it, who would he choose?

I get people say "both because Naruto would find a way to do both," but that seems like such a cop-out answer sometimes. I mean, really what happens if you put Naruto in this kind of situation.

[soraandven]

did anyone get this vibe in the final page cuz i did http://gamergirlx64....Kairi-266869897

[Lilac]

I bring this to question a lot, but many seem to cop-out of answering:

If Naruto was put into a choice of either Save Sasuke or Save his entire village and everyone in it, who would he choose?

I get people say "both because Naruto would find a way to do both," but that seems like such a cop-out answer sometimes. I mean, really what happens if you put Naruto in this kind of situation.

 

There's a difference between what one of us would do, and what Kishimoto would do. I honestly don't think he'd ever put Naruto in that situation-The closest he's ever gotten to it, Naruto never wavered and plot happened to avoid it.

[ns.Believe.It]

I bring this to question a lot, but many seem to cop-out of answering:

If Naruto was put into a choice of either Save Sasuke or Save his entire village and everyone in it, who would he choose?

I get people say "both because Naruto would find a way to do both," but that seems like such a cop-out answer sometimes. I mean, really what happens if you put Naruto in this kind of situation.

No doubt Naruto would opt to save the entire village.

 

But the real question is - If Naruto had a choice of saving either Sakura or Sasuke, who would he save? Its really sad that I can't say "He will save Sakura"  confidently.

Edited by ns.Believe.It, 31 July 2014 - 09:33 AM.

[only Naruto]

Hashirama never went ass licking to madara and neither did he downgrade himself for Madara. Sure he wished Madara should join him, but him leaving the village did not deter Hashirama form what he wanted to do. He wanted to save Madara for sure but his defection never bothered Hashirama's motives. He was never like 'Madara....Madara....Madara!!!!' No! What Naruto is doing is good but he should stop giving Sasuke so much importance. Sure, he needs Sasuke to seal Kaguya but we have always seen Naruto hold his ground against Kaguya alone which is not the case with Sasuke. He NEEDS Naruto. I guarantee you that Shikamaru, Kiba, Gaara and even Shino for that matter have been better friends to Naruto than Sasuke. I need not say how great of a friend Shikamaru and Gaara have been...towards Naruto! 

 

No one against Naruto's idea of saving Sasuke but we have a problem with how he goes about it. He goes on to say, "Afterall....me and Sasuke are great friends" when Sasuke is hell bent on killing Naruto nad tailed beasts and tearing down the whole shinobi system. Nagato, Kurama, Zabuza they were all hell bent on killing Naruto, but Zabuza gave Naruto a purpose and what it was....to be a shinobi! Nagato gave Naruto the biggest aim of his life and he worked his way towards redemption by using his life to give life to the ones he killed, though he was still out of chakra to revive everyone..but still! Kurama....this fox wanted to kill Naruto from day one and I need not tell you how great friends they are right now. e turned his worst enemy into his friend and a burden into his advantage. Currently on the field, there is no strategist as who equals Kurama! Not even Sasuke! Kurama's foresight is amazing!!!!! At the start of part 2 when he first saw Sasuke he already told him "Don't kill Naruto! You will regret killing him later!"....Kurama is ready to put his life on the line for Naruto! He doesn't care how much chakra he needs to mould or how much he has to bear, all he doe sis support Naruto in however way he can! Part 1 Sasuke did that I agree.....but what has Par 2 Sasuke did....apart from inflicting pain to him?

calm down    . i barley  considered sasuke as a good friend for naruto .so i wont even dare to say that he is a great friend even in part 1 .. and for me naruto is over doing the way he chase sasuke but like u i also like the idea . but i still consider hashiramas (killing himself for his bad friend madara is worst than narutos obsession with his bad friend  sasuke ).(but we all know naruto he will try killing him self for sasuke )  lol..and i agree with u shikamaru and gaara are better friends for naruto than sasuke. but if naruto lost them u will see naruto more obsessed with them than sasuke . cause that is how naruto see his friends and i dont like it that much but it...does not bother me .

 

 . . and naruto had that  good friend idea about sasuke until the chapter  483 when he tried to kill them  and naruto said that now its all clear. he said to sasuke you are my friend and i ll always try to bring u back but if u attack the village then ill stop u and kill u and die with u cause i failed to save u (here naruto told us ill be like  my idol  hashirama  ) . but when sasuke stopped to attack the village naruto saw a new chance for getting sasuke. back. and he try to do that by the sweet words. to the little sasuke .

[James S Cassidy]

I said Obito has done worse than Sasuke has, I wouldn't say "better". He's only attempted murder a few times and killed Danzo (not a great guy) and Itachi (sort of had it coming) Obito has a large body count, which includes Naruto's parents and Neji. If Kishimoto thinks Obito is the coolest guy ever for doing all that, then what must he think of Sasuke?

So you are basically saying that killing someone  who is "not a great a guy" doesn't count as murder?

Obito's body count is exactly: 4. Neji, Konan, Torune, Kushina,

Torune and Konan weren't exactly "great people," so do you want to count them? If not, then he only killed Kushina and Neji. Everyone else died through different means. Minato self-sacrificed, tons of no names that apparently we really don't count unless you want to count all the no names Sasuke killed, and several others who were killed by either the tree or Kabuto's doing.

Speaking of which, Kabuto brought back so many with his Edo Tensei and they killed a lot of people including that of Madara who was under Kabuto's control at the time. So why does nobody hate him? Why does nobody claim he should face punishment as well? Kind of forgot about that one huh?

You also got the body counts of the Akatsuki members who are willing joined the group and thus they made the body count.

Let's see, you also have the fact that Kaguya and Black Zetsu were basically manipulating everything behind the scenes of both Madara and the Uchiha clan in general so do we technically tally her score up as well?

How to we dish out points? Does it have to be direct action or just influence through indirect means? If that's the case then we can give the body count to Black Zetsu who started several wars for the sake of gaining back Kaguya and such. He basically messed with history.
 

 

 

There's a difference between what one of us would do, and what Kishimoto would do. I honestly don't think he'd ever put Naruto in that situation-The closest he's ever gotten to it, Naruto never wavered and plot happened to avoid it.

It's too bad. It would make for one hell of a plot device. Sasuke always has plot armor on his side.

Edited by James S Cassidy, 31 July 2014 - 09:37 AM.

[only Naruto]

That's how I feel and it is where I draw the line to separate them. Just because you do good things doesn't make you a good person and that's what people keep saying: "Sasuke did some good things, so he is not all bad." He still treated Sakura less than dirt and felt himself superior. Not only that, but when he was proven wrong, he threw a hissyfit.

Obito...he was a child, but never acted like a child. When the time came for it, he stood up and was willing to die for it. Yeah, he made wrong choices, but he had heart...all he needed was to find that heart again.

Let me put it this way: If Obito was placed in Sasuke's situation, he would never have gone down that dark path at all.

agree . cause obito didnt have all the chances and all the people who tried to stop sasuke from going into the dark path . that is why imo sasuke is the most un deserved character to be redeemed in the mangas villians  . because who had the chances he had ?

[narusaku256]

calm down    . i barley  considered sasuke as a good friend for naruto .so i wont even dare to say that he is a great friend even in part 1 .. and for me naruto is over doing the way he chase sasuke but like u i also like the idea . but i still consider hashiramas (killing himself for his bad friend madara is worst than narutos obsession with his bad friend  sasuke ).(but we all know naruto he will try killing him self for sasuke )  lol..and i agree with u shikamaru and gaara are better friends for naruto than sasuke. but if naruto lost them u will see naruto more obsessed with them than sasuke . cause that is how naruto see his friends and i dont like it that much but it...does not bother me .

 

 . . and naruto had that  good friend idea about sasuke until the chapter  483 when he tried to kill them  and naruto said that now its all clear. he said to sasuke you are my friend and i ll always try to bring u back but if u attack the village then ill stop u and kill u and die with u cause i failed to save u (here naruto told us ill be like  my idol  hashirama  ) . but when sasuke stopped to attack the village naruto saw a new chance for getting sasuke. back. and he try to do that by the sweet words. to the little sasuke .

Eh? That was an all cool reply. Hashirama did not kill himself for Madara's sake. He was ready to kill himself because him killing himself would mean the end of Uchiha and Senju war and there would no longer be battles between them but peace! Let Madara tell Hashirama to kill himself just for the sake of it and Hashirama would make his wood dragon enter Madara's ass and then blow it up! XD. What? Good friend idea upto 483? Hell! He said it just not too long ago! It doens't bother me as to how Naruto sees his other friends since they have done something worth so much affection for him, but what has Sasuke done!!!???

 

I bring this to question a lot, but many seem to cop-out of answering:

If Naruto was put into a choice of either Save Sasuke or Save his entire village and everyone in it, who would he choose?

I get people say "both because Naruto would find a way to do both," but that seems like such a cop-out answer sometimes. I mean, really what happens if you put Naruto in this kind of situation.

He said he would save the village and fight Sasuke to death, so if a choice is to be made between Sasuke and village he'd go for the village and....try to save Sasuke as well! But if he can't....well...

[Lilac]

So you are basically saying that killing someone  who is "not a great a guy" doesn't count as murder?

Obito's body count is exactly: 4. Neji, Konan, Torune, Kushina,

Torune and Konan weren't exactly "great people," so do you want to count them? If not, then he only killed Kushina and Neji. Everyone else died through different means. Minato self-sacrificed, tons of no names that apparently we really don't count unless you want to count all the no names Sasuke killed, and several others who were killed by either the tree or Kabuto's doing.

Speaking of which, Kabuto brought back so many with his Edo Tensei and they killed a lot of people including that of Madara who was under Kabuto's control at the time. So why does nobody hate him? Why does nobody claim he should face punishment as well? Kind of forgot about that one huh?

You also got the body counts of the Akatsuki members who are willing joined the group and thus they made the body count.

Let's see, you also have the fact that Kaguya and Black Zetsu were basically manipulating everything behind the scenes of both Madara and the Uchiha clan in general so do we technically tally her score up as well?

How to we dish out points? Does it have to be direct action or just influence through indirect means? If that's the case then we can give the body count to Black Zetsu who started several wars for the sake of gaining back Kaguya and such. He basically messed with history.
 

 

It's too bad. It would make for one hell of a plot device. Sasuke always has plot armor on his side.

 

I think you're missing my point. I never said Sasuke wasn't a murderer. I said Obito has done worse, and Kishimoto still thinks he's a great guy. He wrote Naruto crying over Obito's grave basically while calling him awesome. I just don't have any hope of Sasuke getting what he deserves at the end.

 

I guess you won't be too pleased if Naruto names his children Obito Nagato and Sasuke Madara Uzumaki? (Not that Sakura would let him, but still)

Edited by Lilac, 31 July 2014 - 09:50 AM.