681 replies to this topic

[Don-kun]

 

I meant the opposite.  I know Sakura does not trust Sasuke, so I was suggesting that either Tsunade does not actually trust Orochimaru either, or it's proof that Sakura has "changed" and isn't making the mistake of trusting Sasuke that Tsunade may be making by trusting Orochimaru.

 

Besides, it's looking like Sasuke has "changed" -- perhaps permanently, and not for the better.

 

 

That's exactly what I was talking about.  Jiraiya never gave up on Orochimaru, but maybe Naruto will have to "change" and realize he cannot or should not shield Sasuke, and accept that Sasuke is not who Naruto wants him to be.

 

 

No, I didn't mean Sakura is planning to betray the alliance.  I meant that for some reason she seems to want the others to think she's happy Sasuke has returned and that she trusts him.  She obviously isn't happy and doesn't trust him, but she won't admit it.  

Sakura could have told Sai the truth, right?  None of the other rookies are happy Sasuke is back, nor do they trust him and they were very vocal about it.  Why wasn't Sakura?  She has a reason to pretend she's happy and trusting, but what is it?  Is she trying to protect Naruto?  Does she think he'll be upset again (like he was during her confession) if she really has given up on Sasuke?

What I'm saying is that Sai and Shikamaru seem unsure of what Sakura is doing.  Either they fear she's supportive and trusting of Sasuke -- because she just lied and said she was -- or they fear she's forming a plan of her own again -- because they already know she is lying.  

It could actually be both -- Shikamaru worried she trusts Sasuke, and Sai worried she's planning something again.  The two guys have different pieces of information about Sakura and her actions.  One way or another, something is going on with her and they are uneasy about it.

 

I hope that clarifies things.

 

 

I wasn't trying to suggest that Naruto is definitely going to die if he doesn't change.  But in speculating on the potential meanings of Orochimaru's words, it was implied through Naruto's parallel with Jiraiya.  If Jiraiya had been left out of Orochimaru's speech, then it wouldn't even be considered.  But the fact that Jiraiya died "just the way he was" -- without changing -- directly implies Naruto's unchangeable nature.

 

Likewise, going by parallels again, Tsunade's comment that if Orochimaru had changed before it was too late Jiraiya would have lived.  It suggests that if Sasuke doesn't change soon enough, Naruto could die.

 

We'll have to wait and see if it means anything.

Only for the bold part the rest I understand what you meant and I agree.

 

So in other words you're saying that maybe Shikamaru and Sai might wonder if she blindly believes is Sasuke or she might be trying something on her own (not that she will actually try to do something), well maybe I will agree with the Shikamaru part plus he has good reason to think that way after what happen in the Summit, but the purpose of that panel was to show that Sai knows Sakura is lying to herself regarding Sasuke and she is either doing it for the Alliance and the Rookies or she is ding it for Naruto.

 

Sai said her words might be sincere but she cannot fool me with that fake smile again he knows better, meaning that even if he has no way to know if she was been honest or not, now he can tell she was lying do to her fake smile.

 

Plus you have to remember all the Rookies are giving a OK about Sasuke right now because he means a lot to Sakura and Naruto so by she admitting that she does not trust him will place Naruto in a though position.

[PhenixElite]

@KnS:
But tgere is no logic behind tat parallel. I also doesnt make sense to say that jiraya died because he didnt change. He die because of pain so what would be different if he changed before? Orochimaru had nothing to do with his death so it all makes no sense.

I think orochimarus statement shouldnt be overthought to much its likely that its totally unimportant.

[TouKen4Life3g]

I feel like the Orochimaru's change took too long to the point it's too late for Jiraiya. If Orochimaru changed early on, perhaps Jiraiya could have seen a better hope for himself because when you saw his end, Jiraiya pretty much believed that his life was well, kitten. That's why when he got to fight Akatsuki leader, he felt shame that even when fighting him, he couldn't be useful to take him out for the world. So pretty much, he felt that his life was meaningless, but luckily for him, he found out that he has done something good: Naruto. That all said Orochimaru finally changed (true or not), but Jiraiya is not there, so too late for that. Jiraiya could have probably accept the Hokage position when he was offered. I heard the databook said that he didn't take it because of Orochimaru, but feel free to correct me. That's how I read it.

[T XD]

I think that Sasuke wants the Kages power. Orochimaru coming to aid the Kages and talks what he talked then going to the battlefield is so simple. Orochimaru having these thoughts also tell me that. It seems that all of this is part of his plan or him and Sasuke's plan. I'm not sure about this, but in my opinion, there's something behind in this part. Orochimaru didn't change. He's just interested in other things now.

 

Another thing, Sakura knows that Sasuke is up to something and it seems that she wants to talk to him or even, maybe, fight him. The latter not exactly that way. It's more like she wants to know what he's thinking no matter what, but if she had to fight him to get answers then be it. I think that Sakura wants to take a role in talking to Sasuke more about his intentions and future actions especially that Naruto is part of it too, she'll take a step in this.

Edited by T XD, 20 June 2013 - 11:13 AM.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

I think that Sasuke wants the Kages power. Orochimaru coming to aid the Kages and talks what he talked then going to the battlefield is so simple. Orochimaru having these thoughts also tell me that. It seems that all of this is part of his plan or him and Sasuke's plan. I'm not sure about this, but in my opinion, there's something behind in this part. Orochimaru didn't change. He's just interested in other things now.

 

Another thing, Sakura knows that Sasuke is up to something and it seems that she wants to talk to him or even, maybe, fight him. The latter not exactly that way. It's more like she wants to know what he's thinking no matter what, but if she had to fight him to get answers then be it. I think that Sakura wants to take a role in talking to Sasuke more about his intentions and future actions especially that Naruto is part of it too, she'll take a step in this.

There's no time for a talk about it, Sasuke is going to show his true colors soon and Naruto is already getting clues about what Sasuke want so i think next chapter which will be the end of the volume or not will end up in a cliffhanger about Sasuke true motives.

 

@Don-Kun the rookies are not giving an OK to Sasuke you know very well, Sai, Shikamaru, Shino, Kiba, I dont sure about the womans but pretty much they dont trust Sasuke, Sai just went up there to tell Sakura about this and to know what she's feeling about it.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 20 June 2013 - 11:22 AM.

[Dkey]

Finally got to post something.

 

I noticed something just before Sai talks to Sakura.

 

http://www.mangapand...m/naruto/635/16

 

The juubi got free of the black flames and those clones started to charge on Naruto and Sasuke. And those idiots are right in the middle of it, with no back up. So if Sasuke is planning to back stab Naruto it may very well be the best place, when they are back to back.

But I don't think he will do this right now. Nor is he planning on back stabbing. He kinda needs Naruto. Right now thou I would like for the both of them to get incapacitated by the Juubi's attack so that those 2 be pulled out of the game long enough for the other conflicts in the war to be resolved. Also Kakashi and Obito's chest stabbing, I feel like we are going to see one more but this time with Sasuke and Naruto.

 

The 5 Kages are coming and apart from fighting the Juubi I don't see them have anymore purpose until the end of the war, when Sasuke and Naruto remain. Seeing that Orochimaru went to heal them, and he is still following Sasuke's lead the 5 Kages have a purpose. I agree a Kage Summit part 2 is coming right up.

Edited by Dkey, 20 June 2013 - 12:20 PM.

[Chatte]

Nice observation! I'd like them to have a bit their asses handed down so that Sakura could save both.

[StriderC]

Looks like the fight with the Ten Tails isn't over just yet. I wonder if Tsunade and the other kages will arrive to the battlefield on time to assist them though given their current line up, do they really even need assistance? I still think the Juubi has some fight left in it but  I wonder if Kishi's gonna let it transform again? If it does, that barrier will likely get blown down. LOL 

 

Anyway, I don't think that Sasuke's gonna actually turn on Naruto. If anything, he doesn't want him to get in the way of his plans or whatever, but right now, I'm not sure if he's gonna try and actually wipe out both Naruto and Bee. Can you imagine him trying to overcome Bee once again but this time, instead of trying to capture him, he goes for the kill. At this point, he's quite capable of doing so too. If he actually succeeds in killing Bee and eliminating the bijuu that he houses, it'd be quite something. But this is only if he's able to destroy the other 7. This would set quite a bit in motion.

 

-This would push toward Naruto having to "save" him once again.

 

-The Raikage, and many others responding to this. He'd once again gain many more enemies. 

 

Hashimara influenced his change, but Hashirama did what Itachi did. Itachi killed his dreams, and ruined his life thus influencing his change in character. That was his desire to avenge his clan which turned into his desire to destroy Konoha which turned into his desire to save Konoha. While Hashirama may have influenced his change to save Konoha, he still needs to be saved especially if he pursues Bee at one point. While he may be on working terms with Naruto, Sakura and such, it's likely that it's only to further his own ends. It's debatable whether he truly cares about them again. It was indeed nice that he assisted Sakura, but really, it's hard to peg where he stands. His objective is becoming a little clearer though. 

 

This is what I think is gonna happen when it comes to the battle if things go a certain way. Naruto and Sasuke are gonna fight but the fight will be for more than the Hokage spot. It'll be for Naruto's life, and the end of the Kyuubi. I don't know if this was addressed before since i didn't burrow through all of the pages, but yeah, I think Sasuke's gonna seek to end Naruto's life for the betterment of the world. I actually like this idea when I think about it. 

 

With this, Sakura plays a huge role. Going against the guy she currently doesn't trust for the guy she'd likely fully love at that time. it's possible like many have suggested that she stands against him at one point some time in the future, but without doubt. Her suspicions could definitely lead her quite a way when it comes to Sasuke, and I feel like Kishi's gonna play out on this suspicion with her character. Her training, and gaining a new ability. Her gaining Slug Sage Mode would actually boost her quite a bit, and give her the ability to at least go toe to toe with Sasuke. Of course, this is only a possibility that I wouldn't mind happening. I can never get enough of Sakura showing just how much Naruto means to her. 

 

Anyway, no matter how you spin it, if Sasuke seeks to destroy ALL Bijuu, he'll likely make quite a few enemies considering there are two Bijuu that aren't in the Ten Tails. Of course, Konoha would definitely be against him wanting them terminated but as Sasuke has made clear before, he doesn't give a damn. He'd have to rule Konoha with an iron fist if he wants their cooperation. Things are definitely gonna get interesting from here on out. I look forward to seeing how it all unravels.

Edited by StriderC, 20 June 2013 - 01:22 PM.

[Canadian_DJ]

I doubt sasuke is gonna back stab them and become evil, he already seeked the truth to make his decision and declared that he wouldn't let his brother and the village go to waste.

[StriderC]

I doubt sasuke is gonna back stab them and become evil, he already seeked the truth to make his decision and declared that he wouldn't let his brother and the village go to waste.

Sasuke could end up resembling Danzo when it comes to how they'd run the village and all that jazz if given the position. Danzo didn't really get the chance to get his feet wet. He just sort of splashed a little. LOL I don't think it'd be him "backstabbing" either. More like him feeling he's doing what's right for the village. When he fought Danzo, he felt that at that time, he was doing what was right for his clan. As long as he feels his actions are justified, there's no stopping the guy. 

[Canadian_DJ]

weak chakra reserves my rear end. Shes canonically proven she has wider reserves then many thought  she did. Shizunes statement of her mastering the mass healing technique alone proves this.
 
Not to mention her summoning of Katsuyu.
 
I stand by my original statement I think Sakuras reserves have long been underestimated and mistaken for her actual stamina when theyre 2 different things.
 
If slug sage mode is coming she will have mastered it already  just never put it into play.

This.

If there's a new power up in the near future we all know that its gonna be for sakura.

And im gonna have to disagree with you slextrem, sakura is known for her amazing skills regarging her chakra, regardless of the amount she has, so sakura mastering the slug sage mode definitely will make sense.

[Canadian_DJ]

@strider

Yeah lrobably, but sasuke isnt gonna become evil, something like danzou is plausible but him betraying them is not likely. Sasuke is just thr anti-hero of the story, naruto the hero and sakura the heroine.

I smell a sakura+naruto vs sasuke in the future.

[ramenanmitsu]

I smell a sakura+naruto vs sasuke in the future.

Like your sig?   The more I look at it the more I think it's foreshadowing.

[Don-kun]

 @ Canadian_DJ and StriderC I agree with both of you after Itachi talk and Hashirama Flash back it does not make any sense for him to go back on his evil ways, he might still have a lot of defect but those are manageable, BUT if Sasuke plan of removing all creators from the world and that involve killing Naruto and Bee then I cannot see how that would not be consider evil and Back stabbing, so it would be better to wait and see how that play out.

 

 

There's no time for a talk about it, Sasuke is going to show his true colors soon and Naruto is already getting clues about what Sasuke want so i think next chapter which will be the end of the volume or not will end up in a cliffhanger about Sasuke true motives.

 

@Don-Kun the rookies are not giving an OK to Sasuke you know very well, Sai, Shikamaru, Shino, Kiba, I dont sure about the womans but pretty much they dont trust Sasuke, Sai just went up there to tell Sakura about this and to know what she's feeling about it.

They don't trust Sasuke that's obvious but Naruto told them to leave Sasuke to him so they did that out of respect towards Naruto and Sakura, don't confuse not trusting someone with refusing to work with him since not too long ago many of them were cheering for Naruto and Sasuke combo attack.

 

So again Sakura is either lying to avoid any tension between Team 7 and the Rookies or she doesn't want to leave Naruto alone with this.

Edited by Don-kun, 20 June 2013 - 02:02 PM.

[StriderC]

@strider

Yeah lrobably, but sasuke isnt gonna become evil, something like danzou is plausible but him betraying them is not likely. Sasuke is just thr anti-hero of the story, naruto the hero and sakura the heroine.

I smell a sakura+naruto vs sasuke in the future.

Yeah, he's all for Konoha this time around it seems, but on his path to becoming Hokage, he's likely gonna step on a few feet along the way.  

 

As for the battle, I think it's probably gonna be Sakura vs Sasuke then Naruto vs Sasuke after he interferes. This time around though, Sakura's not gonna have any doubt in her actions. She'll likely look back on how she wanted to leave it all to both Naruto and Sasuke but then with that, she'll have a newfound resolve to do what's right and actually protect Naruto. It could be either what the bolded, or a solo battle. I just hope we see more of Sakura's capabilities as a ninja. I look at ninja here and laugh because I just realized this is what they call themselves...  

[StriderC]

 @ Canadian_DJ and StriderC I agree with both of you after Itachi talk and Hashirama Flash back it does not make any sense for him to go back on his evil ways, he might still have a lot of defect but those are manageable, BUT if Sasuke plan of removing all creators from the world and that involve killing Naruto and Bee then I cannot see how that would not be consider evil and Back stabbing, so it would be better to wait and see how that play out.

They don't trust Sasuke that's obvious but Naruto told them to leave Sasuke to him so they did that out of respect towards Naruto and Sakura, don't confuse not trusting someone with refusing to work with him since not too long ago many of them were cheering for Naruto and Sasuke combo attack.

 

So again Sakura is either lying to avoid any tension between Team 7 and the Rookies or she doesn't want to leave Naruto alone with this.

LOL Look at it from Sasuke's point of view. He's willing to annihilate the very creatures that have caused a ton of damage to the ninja world. Fights for power of the beasts and such, and means for war. Destroying them in Sasuke's eyes is a good thing. If it comes down to having to take on both Bee and Naruto, it's quite possible that Sasuke won't view it as "backstabbing" but bettering the ninja world with the disposal of the creatures that many of the nations have wanted possession over. His ways are still quite corrupt. 

[Canadian_DJ]

Like your sig?   The more I look at it the more I think it's foreshadowing.

Yeah

[ramenanmitsu]

Am I the only one who thinks Sakura is a chakra tank?

 

I don't get why people say she has a little amount of chakra when the only proof for that statement is her feats during part 1, and the third databook "Stamina 2.5" when that was based on her with only partial chakra.

 

Now that she doesn't need to control part of her chakra to her forehead, and can use her full power and full concentration, she has summoned Katsuyu, destroyed the whole battlefield and that's with her own base chakra. Of course, we can assume that her perfect chakra control has helped in her using the smallest amount of chakra for greatest effect. But even taking her perfect chakra control into consideration, what she has proven to do these few chapters proves that she has indeed great chakra reserves. 

Edited by ramenanmitsu, 20 June 2013 - 02:33 PM.

[Dkey]

Sasuke's words and actions are in direct oposition with Auto yet the events aren't favorable for either of them to start fighting. But something is coming yet not sure how long we are going to wait. But Kishi is still hinting on something regarding Sakura. First last chapter she was watching with a sad look at Sasuke and now she wanted to hide her doubts from Sai. If the fragile alliance between Sasuke and Naruto needs to last for a while it makes sense that she would support that truce. But she is also preparing emotionally for when things are going to go south.

So Orochimaru when talking about wind he was referring to conflict?

[StriderC]

Am I the only one who thinks Sakura is a chakra tank?

 

I don't get why people say she has a little amount of chakra when the only proof for that statement is her feats during part 1, and the third databook "Stamina 2.5" when that was based on her with only partial chakra.

 

Now that she doesn't need to control part of her chakra to her forehead, and can use her full power and full concentration, she has summoned Katsuyu, destroyed the whole battlefield and that's with her own base chakra. Of course, we can assume that her perfect chakra control has helped in her using the smallest amount of chakra for greatest effect. But even taking her perfect chakra control into consideration, what she has proven to do these few chapters proves that she has indeed great chakra reserves. 

Given her amazing chakra control, she's able to utilize her chakra a lot better than most ninja so she can make herself a tank with just being able to dish out jutsu. Now that she has a storage room for her chakra, she's definitely capable of a lot more. Imagine if she gains a Slug Sage Mode. 

 

Anyway, as you've listed here, the jutsu she's already used in this battle speaks volumes, and her seal is still intact. She's healed the army, summoned Katsuya, and she doesn't look fazed at all. It's quite amazing actually. I think her stamina is at least at 4-5 in the databooks by now. When you look at the control she already has, it's something that should be praised. Throughout Part 2, she's healed, fought, and continuously stored chakra in that seal without fail. Our girl is quite something. 

Edited by StriderC, 20 June 2013 - 02:40 PM.