505 replies to this topic

[merryGOflava]

I'm saying is Sasuke has to pay the price like the other villains, or will be looked down like the biggest victim of the series, Gaara was a victim but no one looked like this to him and he himself knew it.

well then all I can say is I humbly disagree

I don't think theres a major difference.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Yeah, these Kages are fun to watch XD, especially Hashirama, and I think Minato will make some funny moments. I don't think all the upcoming chapters with Sasuke and the Kages will be just full sessions of explanation of the history of Konoha and other stuff, which I really hope at the same time that Kishi doesn't stretch it with just that :/

As long as they say something new and keep the mood light with Hashirama being all friendly. I do wonder if he will bring up the Uzumaki Clan. After all, it does suggest that they have been around for that long. Let's see how the origin began in more in-depth details.

[Don-kun]

well then all I can say is I humbly disagree

I don't think theres a major difference.

Are you implying that Gaara, Itachi, Nagato and Zabuza were all jerks even when they all got redeemed it's good that they still die since they deserved that faith, but since Sasuke is also a jerk he also needs to get redeemed it's only fair but he most die like the rest?

Edited by Don-kun, 09 February 2013 - 12:44 AM.

[xxRomanceGirlxx]

The thing is it would have been like that if Kishi didn't have to put a lot of emphasis during Killer Bee fight. Around that time, it could have been a great time to kill one of them off. Also, Kishi did it again with Kabuto's fight. We shouldn't get a lot from those who will be wasted in no time. They sure have more than Sound 5, that's for sure, like it or not. My point is that while they're not important to the overall plot, they seemed like they may adapt something coming from Team 7. Again, why keep them or even give them spotlights at times. But everyone got their own opinions.

Eh, I get what your saying. But my point is, if you compare that once instance during the Killer Bee fight to all the T7/SN references scattered around the story, it pales in comparision. I'm fairly certain Kishimoto still has use for them which is why they're still around. Karin especially for whatever reason, since she was proven to be an Uzumaki.

I guess that's why I don't really see much importance to Jugo and Suigetsu in the end unlike I do with Karin. The Team 7 bond trumps all which makes me wonder if that bond is stronger than the Team Taka one. But whatever, I actually have no idea what's in store for the Takas, be it Sasuke-related or not. Just have to wait and see I guess.

[MangaReader]

Are you implying that Gaara, Itachi, Nagato and Zabuza were all jerks even when they all got redeemed it's good that they still die since they deserved that faith, but since Sasuke is also a jerk he also needs to get redeemed it's only fair but he most die like the rest?

That's actually the way I see it really... especially since I just rewatched the Naruto vs Gaara battle (which also was the defining point for me of how far Naruto would go for Sakura). As bad as Gaara was, Naruto saw himself in him and even seemed to forgive him near the end of that battle, stating they shouldn't be fighting to begin with. Gaara and Sasuke pretty much have similar stories at this point

[xxRomanceGirlxx]

Gaara and Sasuke pretty much have similar stories at this point

Difference: Gaara learned his lesson and the path of evil he's one was wrong. He got smarter and more mature. Sasuke has yet to come to this realization, he's still selfish and immature. Which is why, even though I'm more fond of Sasuke than I am Gaara, he's still a better character overall.

[MangaReader]

Difference: Gaara learned his lesson and the path of evil he's one was wrong. He got smarter and more mature. Sasuke has yet to come to this realization, he's still selfish and immature. Which is why, even though I'm more fond of Sasuke than I am Gaara, he's still a better character overall.

No I do realize that, it's just that Sasuke is sorta forced to stay immature for story purposes. Otherwise, they have a pretty similar fate, just Sasuke was still loved by the village where Gaara was despised and feared. He was a killer at a early age where Sasuke has now become one himself (though both have only even killed no names and villains). Also Gaara lost his loved ones (that he could remember) around the same age if not earlier then Sasuke did.

[Chucky-kun]

Naruto-Conquering the future
Sasuke-Conquering the past

[Weltall]

Sorry, I'm a little confused with the bolded. You're saying that I'm telling something illegitimate? I'm not following.

Not wanting Sasuke to have a family is the moral line you impose on him, but that's your own. Kishimoto might not agree with you on it, he could, but I'm not sure if that's what he wants given how he wants us to feel sorry for Sasuke.

The point is the moral line is the one the author establishes. It's ok for you to disagree with the decision but at least I hope you understand why such a decision is made in the first place. It's not that the author doesn't care about the implications it can have on the audience, it's that the author might just think that given the fictional nature of the work that it might not be judged in the same level as it would in real life.


No offense but given that we weren't supposed to feel sorry for Vegeta and that there isn't any message in having him become a good guy that just makes his change way more strange than anything Sasuke could offer.

At least Sasuke has some backing for becoming good again. Vegeta kinda just happened, just for the sake of having him on the good side.

Saying that it's ok for Vegeta to be good but not for Sasuke is a terrible double standard that I can't believe people are actually defending.

Are you kidding me, a double standard ? It's not okay for Vegeta to be good again it's just we simply didn't care and that was never important in the first place while Sasuke's redemption is the most important plot point in the manga but it lost any kind of value because Sasuke has gone too far for many to accept it, it's kishi's job to fix a limit and he failed.

Merrygoflava : I tought my post was clear Gaara had no choice, Sasuke had the choice it may not change anything for you but for people who value personal responsibility the difference is clear. If you really don't see the fundamental differences between the two then that's your problem.

[jworks]

Naruto-Conquering the future
Sasuke-Conquering the past

Simple and profound! Perfectly said

[Codus N]

Amen. God, do I really hate those couples. SS more so but SK just upsets me until it gets better and Sasuke has to work to gain Karin's trust and respect again.

Also, am I the only one who never really saw that much importance in Team Taka? I thought they were just there, not actually being seen again in the grand scheme of things. I mean, I know Sasuke grew to care for them and at one point was reminded of T7 but then he went dark. I'm sure when he turns good, if he didn't die, he would fix things with them but for some reason I always saw T7 being more important relating to Sasuke's bonds. I guess that's the point. There's more emphasis on a Team 7 ending, not a Team Taka ending. I didn't really wonder that much on what happens with them, though I'm sure Karin is more important than the rest of them.

Truth is, Kishi never wanted to create Team Taka in the first place. His editor forced him to. It's pretty evident with how half-hearted he's writing them.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Truth is, Kishi never wanted to create Team Taka in the first place. His editor forced him to. It's pretty evident with how half-hearted he's writing them.

Where did you even hear this? I keep hearing the battle phase one, not about them creating them. I asked and asked and all of them told me it's false. Where is this info?

[Codus N]

Battle phase??

Anyways, it's from an old interview at one of the Jump Fiesta, I think. But really, all you have to do is see how half-hearted he's writing them to validate that interview.

[redragon88]

Are you kidding me, a double standard ? It's not okay for Vegeta to be good again it's just we simply didn't care and that was never important in the first place while Sasuke's redemption is the most important plot point in the manga but it lost any kind of value because Sasuke has gone too far for many to accept it, it's kishi's job to fix a limit and he failed.

Kishi fixed limits with Sasuke, the problems is that you disagree with those limits based on the realistic expectations that you placed within the story.

The message of this story might be a realistic one but the world of Naruto still remains a fantastical world. The more unrealistic the world is the more is gonna play around with the rules of morality. It has the luxury to do so because that world relies on the absurd to function.

Naruto is not a period setting story about ninjas in ancient Japan, it's about a made up world of people with superpowers that call themselves ninjas. If the story was the first then maybe Sasuke being unforgivable would have more push given the realistic environment, but the Naruto world is definitely not normal.

[narusaku4ver]

Kishi fixed limits with Sasuke, the problems is that you disagree with those limits based on the realistic expectations that you placed within the story.

The message of this story might be a realistic one but the world of Naruto still remains a fantastical world. The more unrealistic the world is the more is gonna play around with the rules of morality. It has the luxury to do so because that world relies on the absurd to function.

Naruto is not a period setting story about ninjas in ancient Japan, it's about a made up world of people with superpowers that call themselves ninjas. If the story was the first then maybe Sasuke being unforgivable would have more push given the realistic environment, but the Naruto world is definitely not normal.

Well he failed first when he started talking about Uchiha's being discriminated when on the entire manga he showed the inverse.
He's forcing down our throats this, about Sasuke we knew he would be redeeemed i dont care how i want to see if he will pay for his actions like the other villains it cannot be all "nice and okay".

[T XD]

As long as they say something new and keep the mood light with Hashirama being all friendly. I do wonder if he will bring up the Uzumaki Clan. After all, it does suggest that they have been around for that long. Let's see how the origin began in more in-depth details.

I think that Karin, being an Uzumaki, will have something to do in the future as a resolution for the manga. I don't think that Kishi made her from the Uzumaki just for the sake of it.

Edited by T XD, 09 February 2013 - 01:32 PM.

[narusakurama]

Truth is, Kishi never wanted to create Team Taka in the first place. His editor forced him to. It's pretty evident with how half-hearted he's writing them.

Imo it is more the story he wrote up to that point that forced him to create team Taka . Without it , Sasuke would have been made too overpowered if he was to survive a solo fight vs KillerB , not to mention the fight vs Raikage , Darui and Shi . Team Taka was needed so that Sasuke's story would not become too much of an ass pull . Let us not forget that it was also team Taka that was given the role of finding the scroll that lead to the latest chapters .

[TouKen4Life3g]

Battle phase??

Anyways, it's from an old interview at one of the Jump Fiesta, I think. But really, all you have to do is see how half-hearted he's writing them to validate that interview.

A really good friend, Kanae (Thank you ) helped me and provide me this:
"Are you gonna write the battle of each member of Hebi?
Kishi : Actually I didn't want to. But Shueisha ordered me to do with something about them."

That was before Killerbee, back at the end of 2009. Then you've got 2010's Jump Festa where he does mention Taka quite a bit, and clearly states that what happens in the Sasuke vs Danzou fight would not only determine the course of Sasuke's character, but also Taka's - which shows he already had a plan for them.

So, give or take.

I think that Karin, being an Uzumaki, will have something to do in the future as a resolution for the manga. I don't think that Kishi made her from the Uzumaki just for the sake of it.

And that's what bothering me. This has nothing to do with pairing until further notice, but you got to wonder, what good does Karin being an Uzumaki can accomplish. Why have her out of scene from the current situation? If you ask me, minus Sasuke, of course, it does seem Karin is the most important one out of the team. I mean when Sasuke found out she's an Uzumaki, he questioned Kabuto as if he's asking for us. Basically, it's a shocking reveal for us. You know, I'm surprised that Kishi actually thought through with Karin's flashback. Think about it, why not just have her love Sasuke back at the hideout? Why find the appropriate time as if Kishi has to recap and find the perfect fit. I'm still wondering...

[T XD]

A really good friend, Kanae (Thank you ) helped me and provide me this:
And that's what bothering me. This has nothing to do with pairing until further notice, but you got to wonder, what good does Karin being an Uzumaki can accomplish. Why have her out of scene from the current situation? If you ask me, minus Sasuke, of course, it does seem Karin is the most important one out of the team. I mean when Sasuke found out she's an Uzumaki, he questioned Kabuto as if he's asking for us. Basically, it's a shocking reveal for us. You know, I'm surprised that Kishi actually thought through with Karin's flashback. Think about it, why not just have her love Sasuke back at the hideout? Why find the appropriate time as if Kishi has to recap and find the perfect fit. I'm still wondering...

Yes, Karin is the most important out of Suigetsu and Juugo. Having her out of the scene right now means that her returning will have someting a bit special to it.

They are now at the Uzumaki's palce. Karin is an Uzumaki. If Karin returned to them when they are sill there then it's something we don't see every time in the manga. I really hope that Karin make her entrance to where they are right now cause it will be great with all of her and the Uzumaki thing.

The flashback was more for us to know how they met, but it doesn't eliminate that it has another meaning. As far as I remember, Suigetsu and Juugo didn't have a flash back with Sasuke in it. However, the falshback of Karin and Sasuke is more important than Suigetsu's and Juugo's seeing that it's related to Sasuke.

Edited by T XD, 09 February 2013 - 01:42 PM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Yes, Karin is the most important out of Suigetsu and Juugo. Having her out of the scene right now means that her returning will have someting something a bit special to it.

They are now at the Uzumaki's palce. Karin is an Uzumaki. If Karin returned to them when they are sill there then it's something we don't see every time in the manga. I really hope that karin make her entrance to where they are cause it will be great with all of her and the Uzumaki thing.

The flashback was more for us to know how they met, but it doesn't eliminate that it has another meaning. As far as I remember, Suigetsu and Juugo didn't have a flash back with Sasuke in it. However, the falshback of Karin and Sasuke is more important than Suigetsu's and Juugo's seeing that it's related to Sasuke.

I'm just saying that people assumed they met each other for the first time at the hideout, but it's way back in the exam. It's just seem it has more to it but who knows. What I want to know is how Karin's entrance will be with all this stuff going on. It's convenient that she's left out the moment of learning the origin of ninja, especially since Hashirama is about to explain. It makes me wonder what does Kishi has in mind. After all, she was kept alive for a reason.