106 replies to this topic

[Miss Soupy]

I don't think we should give up our right to discuss the views of the opposing fandoms, but the fandom itself shouldn't be attacked. I've seen a lot of people saying things about the opposing fandoms intelligence, or that they are crazy for viewing things the way they do. That itself has nothing to do with the likelihood of NaruSaku, which is the point of the debate thread and should be part of the discussion. Someone doesn't deserve less respect just because they have a different view than you do, which should be kept in mind by all members.

And I wouldn't consider what James said to be bashing (my opinion). If someone said that about NS fandom, which I'm sure they do, I wouldn't be offended and would have to agree that it happens. That doesn't attack someone personally. Just think of the golden rule: treat others the way you would want to be treated.

[narukunsakuchan]

I agree to the no bashing vow, if you say something then have a logical explanation behind why you say it if you are questioned for it. As people may have seen on my posts before comparing naru/saku to the other pairings that I tried to use logic as much as possible to show I wasn't bashing a pairing but stating what I seen as facts and support for the naru/saku pairing. I think it just got so heated the last few weeks because alot of us were getting ready to pull out the final guns in the hope that this war was over lol.

[Ulgamoth]

I'm 16 years old(...), and while I'm a N/S fan, and I would be a sad panda if some meanie bashed N/S, so I will be thoughtful towards other with different opinions/beliefs.

Go April...

Edited by The Mangekyō Sharingan, 31 March 2010 - 02:17 AM.

[RedDelicious]

Since it isn't April yet, I should take this opportunity to bash Hopestar!
This is a Naruto forum. Instead of saying "I'm in", shouldn't people be saying "believe it!"?

Or at very least, Hopestar should have paraphrased Naruto at the VotE:
"I'm going to make people stop bashing other fandoms, even if I have to break every bone in their bodies!"

[James S Cassidy]

I'd say it's better to not really comment about what the other parts of the Naruto pairing fandom does or doesn't, and just let it be. As it is with politics, it all depends on the point of view. A fan of another pairing might say we're the ones making up stuff, so just remember that the only one who knows hasn't finished drawing his story yet, and we won't know until he does.

True, but even you have to admit that some people are figgin' nuts to see things that aren't there. And by that I mean people who are REALLY pulling at strings. It's especially dangerous when someone spreads a rumor around and people start asking question and then you have to prove it false by proving them wrong. NaruSaku and NaruHina fans alike.

What we count as bashing might be different from mod to mod, so if one mod decides you're good, another might serve you an official warning which takes you one more step towards a ban. Is it really worth taking the chance? You can all get into great conversations without going into what's in the heads of the fans of other pairings, so just stay with how awesome NaruSaku is and why YOU think it's the best choice.

So I have to trust in several mods and admins to make a judgement on what is considered bashing and what is considered not...and remind me again what happens if one you guys goes crazy?

Nothing for nothing, but I have seen mods and admins go crazy one day and ban people for no reason at all because someone proved them wrong. Myself included, which is why I stopped supporting some sites. Some who have power tend to abuse such power. So forgive me if I am not so trusting of mods.

Hope you guys know what you are doing.

As for not knowing what goes through the minds or other fans....well, what if they thought of something we didn't think about?

[Smiter]

I'm 16 years old(...), and while I'm a N/S fan, and I would be a sad panda if some meanie bashed N/S, so I will be thoughtful towards other with different opinions/beliefs.

Go April...

I apologise for the rash banning I did, I had to run off to work and I'm also not a 4chan visitor so I had no idea what you were referring to. Sorry!

And thank you for deciding to be more considerate of other pairings.

Froot, I agree it would be best to stop bashing period. But I think this vow for April is a good idea, as people can concentrate on this for the short term at least. It's a start! Then hopefully we can continue improving, month on month.

I don't think we should give up our right to discuss the views of the opposing fandoms, but the fandom itself shouldn't be attacked. I've seen a lot of people saying things about the opposing fandoms intelligence, or that they are crazy for viewing things the way they do. That itself has nothing to do with the likelihood of NaruSaku, which is the point of the debate thread and should be part of the discussion. Someone doesn't deserve less respect just because they have a different view than you do, which should be kept in mind by all members.

And I wouldn't consider what James said to be bashing (my opinion). If someone said that about NS fandom, which I'm sure they do, I wouldn't be offended and would have to agree that it happens. That doesn't attack someone personally. Just think of the golden rule: treat others the way you would want to be treated.

I agree with your view, there's nothing wrong with discussing how other pairing fandoms view the manga, as long as it's not bashing. There is a real difference between "(insert pairing) fans don't know what they're talking about lol" and "I feel this theory doesn't stand up because... (quote manga evidence)".

It just feels that recent weeks have been really bad, especially in the debate and chapter threads. As KungFuTruffle said, there were even pairing debates in chapters that had little to no pairing material! So maybe we need a break from "??? said this, and ??? said that" for a week or so, then we can look at how to improve things like the debate thread.

I'm thinking about starting a new debate thread with clear rules of engagement. Obviously the "no bashing" rule would remain, but perhaps we could also put in things like:

• If you don't agree, show your logical reasoning why, and present evidence wherever possible.
• When presenting or supporting an argument/theory, please show your reasoning and evidence!
• Even if you like a theory someone else suggested, think carefully about whether it makes sense! Don't be afraid to call out NaruSaku arguments/theories that you feel are flimsy.
• Only manga chapters, databook entries, and Kishimoto interviews may be presented as evidence. Anime cannot be accepted because it often devitates from the canon storyline.

Perhaps we could also have a couple of moderators keeping an eye on the thread, staying as neutral as possible (and playing devil's advocate whenever needed) and pruning any posts that take away from the discussion (e.g. bashing).

Hopefully we'll be able to establish H&E as a place where everyone is respected, no matter what pairings (if any) they support, and all debates and discussions are healthy.

James S Cassidy, I believe it would be acceptable to discuss theories from other fandoms, as long as they are discussed in a logical way. Instead of saying "NaruHina fans make up information" (which is a blanket statement and can be interpreted as bashing), it would be better to calmly dissect their theories and present manga evidence why you feel you don't agree. For example, you could discuss the relationship dynamics and show how you think the manga has portrayed them.

[Toasty Warrior]

Sounds like a good vowel to live by and I'll make sure to keep by it.

[Kamina-Yoshi]

Sorry, but I'm not taking the vow. I'll stick with the official rules of H&E.

[Sakura Blossoms]

Sorry, but I'm not taking the vow. I'll stick with the official rules of H&E.

Then you could have just...not posted in this thread

Since it isn't April yet, I should take this opportunity to bash Hopestar!
This is a Naruto forum. Instead of saying "I'm in", shouldn't people be saying "believe it!"?

Or at very least, Hopestar should have paraphrased Naruto at the VotE:
"I'm going to make people stop bashing other fandoms, even if I have to break every bone in their bodies!"

And what? *Please* tell me that this is a 'joke' post, because member bashing is as forbidden as pairing/fandom bashing.

[Miss Soupy]

@Smiter

You might want to add rules about spam too, since that seems to be a big problem lately as well. Oh, and quoting extremely long posts just to say 'I agree'. XD;;;

[Derock]

@Smiter

You might want to add rules about spam too, since that seems to be a big problem lately as well. Oh, and quoting extremely long posts just to say 'I agree'. XD;;;

We will take note on that.

[Merger Knight]

While I think it'd be better to say "I will not bash at all", I'll still throw my support behind this. The talk has been getting pretty terrible the past few weeks. I just want to discuss the current chapter, but the discussion will inevitably turn toward how one pairing is better than another. Which makes no sense for many chapters, as there isn't any relationship material to talk about.

I didn't think we did that much bashing here to begin with

[Serenity Namikaze]

@Smiter

You might want to add rules about spam too, since that seems to be a big problem lately as well. Oh, and quoting extremely long posts just to say 'I agree'. XD;;;

I wouldn't mind that.

I find a little annoying the post that quote other member long post just to say that they agree. I think that it would be useful to make a rule for that. If member wish to say they agree to a long post, the could just do that :

example --Click here to view--

@silverserenity

I agree.

I have to read the rule again but if there is no rule for that, that could be also useful that people don't post only to say that they agree. If they agree, they could also explain why they agree. That way, the discussion will be more interesting.

I believe it can still be done as long as the long quote is placed under a spoiler tag.

Yes but many doesn't use them to quote long post( maybe because they don't know how to do spoiler tag)

Edited by Derock, 01 April 2010 - 01:17 AM.

[Smiter]

@Smiter

You might want to add rules about spam too, since that seems to be a big problem lately as well. Oh, and quoting extremely long posts just to say 'I agree'. XD;;;

I'll definitely add that, thanks. I can't agree more on the latter. XD; It could be the solution Silver suggested (no quoting posts if you just want to agree, and an explanation why you agree). Maybe I can include a recommendation (not a strict rule) that people use spoiler tags when writing long posts? I'm sure some people already spoiler tag long posts, but I'm not sure how often they do it.

Maybe this Sunday, I will try to start a fresh pairing debate thread with the rules we talked about. Any suggestions and ideas are very welcome!

[Derock]

Maybe this Sunday, I will try to start a fresh pairing debate thread with the rules we talked about. Any suggestions and ideas are very welcome!

We definitely need a new one! Because the thread itself has pass any other threads in this forum (exceed over 250+ pages?!!! HOLY MOLEY!!! )

*still thinking we should had kept this forever instead of 1 month*

[Sakura Blossoms]

*still thinking we should had kept this forever instead of 1 month*

Done

[KonaKonaFan]

I'm in!

[Derock]

Done

My answers has been heard! Thank you!

[Miss Soupy]

Maybe I can include a recommendation (not a strict rule) that people use spoiler tags when writing long posts? I'm sure some people already spoiler tag long posts, but I'm not sure how often they do it.

Honestly, I don't think the initial writing of long posts is a problem. You want people to read posts, but when you put it in spoiler tags it makes it more likely people will ignore it. The main thing is that there are many ways to state someones agreement with a long post that will take up less space. We want to see the initial long post once; we don't need to see it multiple times without any addition. Like what Silver said, if you want to agree, just say @So-and-so I agree! If you want to comment on one part of a long post, just quote it and then delete parts that aren't important to what you want to say. It's not hard to do, I just think some people get a bit lazy and just quote and reply without trying to manage their post at all.

[Smiter]

Honestly, I don't think the initial writing of long posts is a problem. You want people to read posts, but when you put it in spoiler tags it makes it more likely people will ignore it. The main thing is that there are many ways to state someones agreement with a long post that will take up less space. We want to see the initial long post once; we don't need to see it multiple times without any addition. Like what Silver said, if you want to agree, just say @So-and-so I agree! If you want to comment on one part of a long post, just quote it and then delete parts that aren't important to what you want to say. It's not hard to do, I just think some people get a bit lazy and just quote and reply without trying to manage their post at all.

OK, it's noted.