44 replies to this topic

[ramenanmitsu]

@ramen
Mei has range jutsu, the thing sakura and tsunade don't have so far.

You mean she has more jutsus? I agree with that.

Hiruzen has 1000 Justus but Naruto is stronger than him in Sage Mode. I don't think the number of jutsus determine how strong a shinobi is.

[Atheck]

I think there's a misunderstanding. When I mentioned the phrase, "highly resistant body", it was a reference to Katsuyu, who has proven to be an effective tank, not Sakura. Sakura was recoiling from stinging burns on her arm and there isn't much evidence left to deduce what her pain threshold might be. It's certainly below Tsunade's level.

Exhausted or not, the fact that Sakura's chakra was great enough to project three highly taxing dimensional portals proves that her stamina is enormous. Her reserves should give her a very strong advantage in a battle of attrition against most of the other characters on the list.

Edited by Atheck, 17 July 2014 - 10:15 AM.

[rocci]

You mean she has more jutsus? I agree with that.

Hiruzen has 1000 Justus but Naruto is stronger than him in Sage Mode. I don't think the number of jutsus determine how strong a shinobi is.

What I mean for range is jutsu distance. Mei is a medium to long range jutsu user, kind of like temari, tayuya, onoki, and garra.
Using j-rpg term, a Mage class.

But, chakra > jutsu.
Next arc kishi will fulfill sakura battle potential.

[ramenanmitsu]

What I mean for range is jutsu distance. Mei is a medium to long range jutsu user, kind of like temari, tayuya, onoki, and garra.
Using j-rpg term, a Mage class.
But, chakra > jutsu.
Next arc kishi will fulfill sakura battle potential.

Ah I see what you mean. But then again I don't think automatically long range>short range. Neji is short range but most likely stronger than Temari, Kimmimaro was stronger than Gaara, and would have beaten him if not for his disease.

If chakra>jutsu, then Sakura is obviously a chakra beast so I don't think she will lose to Mei on that front. She does have three years of chakra stored in her forehead.

Edited by ramenanmitsu, 17 July 2014 - 10:29 AM.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

And likewise, I think you are underrating her. Unless, you can explain to me how people are 'overrating' her instead of just jumping to attack any comments that remotely talk about her more positive than you like.

First off let me just point out, Atheck pointed her "chakra", "determination", "body endurance" as points of why Sakura is ranked higher.
However on his rank "Kushina" is nowhere to be seen, a Kunoichi, whom was the jinchuuriki of the kyuubi, give birth to Naruto and was capable of creating a barrier and holding off the kyuubi despite the fact her chakra was vanishing.
Those feats are higher than Sakura giving chakra to Obito on the recent chapter.

Second : About MEi, Sakura is not a fighter, she only has her super strenght and her strategy seemed the same as tsunde, get close to land a punch, or use herself as meat shield, every fight Tsunade had fought the strategy was the same, and Sakura followed the same thing.
Why Mei is ranked lower, when she has 3 kekkei genkais and several jutsus.
Obviously all those womans cant be compared to Madara but Sakura/Tsunade had proved many times that they arent Ninjas supposed to fight 1v1 like Mei is.

Sakura may have regeneration but her body inst made of steel, it can be melt with acid, it can be cut in half and etc...
I dont see her skills being suitable for a fighter ninja like others are.(Kushina, Mei).
 

Sorry, I don't want to sound rude. I just want explanations if people are going to call out negatively on other people's judgements.

Me neither but i just feel like injustice to other characters, Sakura does small things, or even show some skills here and there but nothing something huge but everything she does she goes on a pedestal like she's the strongest kunoichi on Naruto, i think that's unfair.
Mei is an example of this, why she's ranked lower than Sakura when she's a highly skilled fighter and is a hokage not even mentioning she has 3 kekkei genkais which even melted Sasuke's sunano'o.
 

I think there's a misunderstanding. When I mentioned the phrase, "highly resistant body", it was a reference to Katsuyu, who has proven to be an effective tank, not Sakura. Sakura was recoiling from stinging burns on her arm and there isn't much evidence left to deduce what her pain threshold might be. It's certainly below Tsunade's level.

Using Katsuyu as a meat shield, will only devour her chakra by summoning it and can obviously be melted as well, it does absorb physical damage but we have yet to see how that works in terms of jutsus.
I dont even need to point out that summoning Katsuyu on a 1v1 fight is completely useless.
 

Exhausted or not, the fact that Sakura's chakra was great enough to project three highly taxing dimensional portals proves that her stamina is enormous. Her reserves should give her a very strong advantage in a battle of attrition against most of the other characters on the list.

Chakra on Naruto is something immensurable, highly taxing might depend on the perspective, for Obito who's dying and with little chakra those portals can be costly to him.
But the same might cant be said for someome like Naruto who has chakra enough to even lend it for free and etc...
Like you said that her reserves give her a slight advantage unless if they keep fighting until one of the sides gets depleted but it's unlikely due to the fact she has only her super streght and nothing else.
Sakura inst a ninja supposed to fight and her training goes on that direction she's meant to survive a team fight not supposed to fight 1v1.
Might even Chiyo be superior than Sakura and Tsunade or not.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 17 July 2014 - 10:52 AM.

[ramenanmitsu]

First off let me just point out, Atheck pointed her "chakra", "determination", "body endurance" as points of why Sakura is ranked higher.However on his rank "Kushina" is nowhere to be seen, a Kunoichi, whom was the jinchuuriki of the kyuubi, give birth to Naruto and was capable of creating a barrier and holding off the kyuubi despite the fact her chakra was vanishing.Those feats are higher than Sakura giving chakra to Obito on the recent chapter.Second : About MEi, Sakura is not a fighter, she only has her super strenght and her strategy seemed the same as tsunde, get close to land a punch, or use herself as meat shield, every fight Tsunade had fought the strategy was the same, and Sakura followed the same thing.Why Mei is ranked lower, when she has 3 kekkei genkais and several jutsus.Obviously all those womans cant be compared to Madara but Sakura/Tsunade had proved many times that they arent Ninjas supposed to fight 1v1 like Mei is. Me neither but i just feel like injustice to other characters, Sakura does small things, or even show some skills here and there but nothing something huge but everything she does she goes on a pedestal like she's the strongest kunoichi on Naruto, i think that's unfair.Mei is an example of this, why she's ranked lower than Sakura when she's a highly skilled fighter and is a hokage.

I think character strength is not only determined by only offensive but judged by defensive capability as well. And I don't see how Kushina not being ranked in as a problem. Atheck didn't say he ranked the characters ONLY by those three points. He just said that in his decision making he prioritized some standards over the other. Sakura has shown some strength other than the aforementioned points. And how are you certain that Kushina trying to seal the Kyuubi within her is more chakra consuming than what Sakura did the previous chapter? Obito who has recently sealed the ten tails in himself, stated that opening another dimension uses a lot of chakra. That's only your subjecting view isn't it?

Mei has only two kekkei genkais. If the number of kekkei genkais determines how strong a character is, Mei should be stronger than Sasuke, and Hinata should be stronger than Minato. And as I said the judgement is not only based ion offensive but defensive as well. Gaara only has a limited attacks with his sand but is considered strong because of his strongest defense.

So you're feeling frustrated that people on this site are praising Sakura than she deserves? I feel the exact same thing oppositely against you. I feel frustrated whenever I see you try to undermine her in any way possible. And I always feel like you're trying to grasp straws find any small panel to bash her as much as possible while dismissing it when other characters are also to blame. You find we're doing injustice to other characters? I think YOU are doing injustice to her character with you posting whenever you find something to talk bad about her. You might think others are overly praising her, but I think you think so because you can't stand people talking positively about her. It can go both ways really. If you can't stand people talking positively about Sakura, maybe you can join the anti-Sakura fanclub? You can't expect the NaruSaku forums to look at Sakura as 'a useless weak kunoichi undeserving of Naruto and a criminal for refusing his feelings'. Many people in this fc likes her after all.

Edited by ramenanmitsu, 17 July 2014 - 11:07 AM.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

I think character strength is not only determined by only offensive but judged by defensive capability as well. And I don't see how Kushina not being ranked in as a problem. Atheck didn't say he ranked the characters ONLY by those three points. He just said that in his decision making he prioritized some standards over the other. Sakura has shown some strength other than the aforementioned points. And how are you certain that Kushina trying to seal the Kyuubi within her is more chakra consuming than what Sakura did the previous chapter? Obito who has recently sealed the ten tails in himself, stated that opening another dimension uses a lot of chakra. That's only your subjecting view isn't it?

Regardless of chakra consumption or not stopping the kyuubi is already an impressive feat more than opening portals.

Second Obito stating it consumes a lot of chakra, is unknown if he's doing that in consideration about the fact he was 10 ten tails or his current state, due to how Kaguya behaves, i dont think it was a lot of chakra when you're the ten tails jinchuuriki.
But however for normal people who doesnt have bijuu's sealed on them and are from that perspective is a lot of chakra.

Third about atheck points, makes no sense for him to use that rank and put people to fight, offensives when looking at this perspective which "strongest kunoichi's" mean offense are also a mean of defense too.
He bought up Katsuyu, her Yin regeneration and chakra reserves and judged them as impressive feats while at the same time not giving credit for offensive capabilities, Sakura/Tsunade doesnt have a body of steel, and chakra reserves means nothing if most of the fights doesnt end with someome being with chakra depleted.
Rarely we have battles were someome loses because of not having enough chakra, the last time it happened was on the valley of the end.
 

Mei has only two kekkei genkais. If the number of kekkei genkais determines how strong a character is, Mei should be stronger than Sasuke, and Hinata should be stronger than Minato. And as I said the judgement is not only based ion offensive but defensive as well. Gaara only has a limited attacks with his sand but is considered strong because of his strongest defense.

Mei and Minato are different cases but shows the same thing.
Mei having three kekkei genkais and several jutsus means that she can adapt to whatever situation while Sakura/Tsunade cannot.
Minato was capable of using his flying raijin to do a lot of things on the battlefield, either to escape, attack or nullify a big jutsu used by an opponent, he also has sealing ninjutsus and a strong attack like rasengan.

Also Gaara is considered strong not because of his defense but because the fact he's capable of doing many thing with his sand is what constitutes his defense, remember how he can mark his opponents with sand, he can make it pierce it's opponents and it's even capable of sealing them.(a powerfull seal btw).
And too the fact he also manages to be able to attack while defending.
 

So you're feeling frustrated that people on this site are praising Sakura than she deserves? I feel the exact same thing oppositely against you. I feel frustrated whenever I see you try to undermine her in any way possible. And I always feel like you're trying to grasp straws find any small panel to bash her as much as possible while dismissing it when other characters are also to blame. You find we're doing injustice to other characters? I think YOU are doing injustice to her character with you posting whenever you find something to talk bad about her. You might think others are overly praising her, but I think you think so because you can't stand people talking positively about her. It can go both ways really. If you can't stand people talking positively about Sakura, maybe you can join the anti-Sakura fanclub? You can't expect the NaruSaku forums to look at Sakura as 'a useless weak kunoichi undeserving of Naruto and a criminal for refusing his feelings'. Many people in this fc likes her after all.

That's simplist, im' not being frustated at people praising Sakura but i just dont see reason to praise her at the cost of undermine the other characters, Sakura sure is strong but not stronger than Mei or Tsunade(yet) as a example.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 17 July 2014 - 11:44 AM.

[ramenanmitsu]

Regardless of chakra consumption or not stopping the kyuubi is already an impressive feat more than opening portals.Second Obito stating it consumes a lot of chakra, is unknown if he's doing that in consideration about the fact he was 10 ten tails or his current state, due to how Kaguya behaves, i dont think it was a lot of chakra when you're the ten tails jinchuuriki.But however for normal people who doesnt have bijuu's sealed on them and are from that perspective is a lot of chakra.Third about atheck points, makes no sense for him to use that rank and put people to fight, offensives when looking at this perspective which "strongest kunoichi's" mean offense are also a mean of defense too.He bought up Katsuyu, her Yin regeneration and chakra reserves and judged them as impressive feats while at the same time not giving credit for offensive capabilities, Sakura/Tsunade doesnt have a body of steel, and chakra reserves means nothing if most of the fights doesnt end with someome being with chakra depleted.Rarely we have battles were someome loses because of not having enough chakra, the last time it happened was on the valley of the end. Mei and Minato are different cases but shows the same thing.Mei having three kekkei genkais and several jutsus means that she can adapt to whatever situation while Sakura/Tsunade cannot.Minato was capable of using his flying raijin to do a lot of things on the battlefield, either to escape, attack or nullify a big jutsu used by an opponent, he also has sealing ninjutsus and a strong attack like rasengan. That's simplist, im' not being frustated at people praising Sakura but i just dont see reason to praise her at the cost of undermine the other characters, Sakura sure is strong but not stronger than Mei or Tsunade(yet) as a example.

Lol, wut? I honestly think your above post is nothing more than baseless opinions so you can undermine Sakura.

Kushina sealing a Kyuubi is more impressive than opening portals? Can you show me the exact data on how much chakra is used for each of these feats? If not, then your opinion is no more reliable than people saying, "Kushina is more stronger than Sakura because I hate Sakura." Seriously.
Baseless assumption no.1

Opening portals isn't difficult but Obito was saying it was because he was talking in consideration for normal people? You created this scenario in your head. Are you seriously going that far so you can prove to the world how Sakura is not impressive?
Baseless assumption no.2

Atheck not putting offensive capabilities?
Baseless assumption no. 3
He was specifically talking about the defensive capabilities because that is the reason Sakura was ranked higher. And you immediately assumed that he didn't put any offensive capabilities in consideration? Why?

Chakra reserves mean nothing because nobody ever got chakra depleted? Your logic makes no sense at all. It's thanks to the chakra reserves that nobody lost like that. I can give you a few examples where chakra reserves were costly. if Hiruzen had the chakra reserves of his youth, he would have won that battle with Orochimaru. If Ino was not exhausted in her battle with Sakura, she might have been able to overpower Sakura. What about Kisame? Do you think Kisame could have become a S-Rank shinobi without his chakra reserves? Were Naruto able to obtain the Sage mode without his chakra reserves?

And my example with Mei and Minato is to prove that kekkei genkais are not the only thing to determine a character's strength. In Sakura's case, she has a strong resistance to physical attacks, she can regenerate, hide herself in Katsuyu's body, Katsuyu's body can split. I put defensive capabilities very important. You have a problem with that? Well bad for you.

And regarding Gaaras wide arrange of capabilities I understand your point regarding THIS case. But the same could be said for Sakura and Tsunade here. They both have long range attacks if they summon Katsuyu and spit acid for a long distance. They can attack while defending themselves, they can hide in Katsuyu while it spits acid, or they can instantly regenerate while attacking.

And you praising other characters at the cost of putting Sakura down is any better?

Edited by ramenanmitsu, 17 July 2014 - 12:09 PM.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Lol, wut? I honestly think your above post is nothing more than baseless opinions so you can undermine Sakura.

Kushina sealing a Kyuubi is more impressive than opening portals? Can you show me the exact data on how much chakra is used for each of these feats? If not, then your opinion is no more reliable than people saying, "Kushina is more stronger than Sakura because I hate Sakura." Seriously.
Baseless assumption no.1

"Baseless assumption".
Well you started it first with the only chakra consumption thing, i just showed that her setting up a barrrier and holding up the kyuubi with her chains after giving birth and losing a bijuu is more impressive than giving chakra to someome whem you was literally rested, also she didnt opened a barrier she give chakra to obito open it.
 

Opening portals isn't difficult but Obito was saying it was because he was talking in consideration for normal people? You created this scenario in your head. Are you seriously going that far so you can prove to the world how Sakura is not impressive?

Baseless assumption no.2
"Obito creating portals" not Sakura, the baseless assumption that you pointed out is the whole fact you're giving the whole credit to Sakura alone, a feat impressive the fact she was capable of giving chakra enough to it but not as much impressive as Kushina as an example.
 

Atheck not putting offensive capabilities?
Baseless assumption no. 3
He was specifically talking about the defensive capabilities because that is the reason Sakura was ranked higher. And you immediately assumed that he didn't put any offensive capabilities in consideration? Why?

That's the problem, he ranked her higher because of defensive capabilities which arent over the top, she can regenerate but her body inst made of steel.
Katsuyu summoning to defend, if she does so how's she's going to attack on his scenario she's supposed to fight not stand still waiting for the opponent to attack makes no sense since she's giving time for them.
 

Chakra reserves mean nothing because nobody ever got chakra depleted? Your logic makes no sense at all. It's thanks to the chakra reserves that nobody lost like that. I can give you a few examples where chakra reserves were costly. if Hiruzen had the chakra reserves of his youth, he would have won that battle with Orochimaru. If Ino was not exhausted in her battle with Sakura, she might have been able to overpower Sakura. What about Kisame? Do you think Kisame could have become a S-Rank shinobi without his chakra reserves? Were Naruto able to obtain the Sage mode without his chakra reserves?

It obviously makes sense, "it's thanks to the chakra reserves that nobody lost like that".
It's not thanks to jutsus that nobody lost like that?
If i remember Itachi won against Sasuke because he used Susano'o when he was about to be destroyed by Kirin, Naruto won against Pain with Rasengan and lots of clones and he didnt win because Pain didnt had any more chakra, because he still had.
Naruto's fight against Obito ten tails, a combined attack with Sasuke and Obito had plenty of chakra.
Kisame had large chakra reserves but he managed to win the battles by sucking away the chakra of his opponents, proof of it was his fight against Bee, chakra reserves means nothing if you're not capable of doing a lot of things to it.(not even mentioning the ammount of jutsus he has).
Sakura has chakra reserves but she can do little with it aside from using her regen jutsu and super strenght.

Your examples Hiruzen vs Orochimaru : Orochimaru wasnt with chakra depleted either, he was caught because Hiruzen used a seal that sacrificed his own soul and managed to catch his arms.
Also he was stabbed with a jedi sword on his chest.
Sakura vs Ino : The solely reason why it ended with a draw, is the fact that they basically were fighting with basic techniques and only Ino had a her clan technique which only worked to make the opponent concede while Sakura broke off with determination and Naruto's chanting.
That fighting ended with a draw due to the level of that girls, neither had jutsus like the other guys.
 
Note : Chakra reserves, on your scenario only matters between two opponents with the same level and jutsus like example "Sakura" vs "Tsunade" then it would matter but still has the facts about experience, tactical, evasion and etc...

And my example with Mei and Minato is to prove that kekkei genkais are not the only thing to determine a character's strength. In Sakura's case, she has a strong resistance to physical attacks, she can regenerate, hide herself in Katsuyu's body, Katsuyu's body can split. I put defensive capabilities very important. You have a problem with that? Well bad for you.

She can regen herself but her body is not made of steel, "she can hide in Katsuyu's body"
Katsuyu's body only absorb physical attacks but it's vulnerable to wind techniques mostly "cutting techniques" and Sakura's body is vulnerable aswell.
 

And regarding Gaaras wide arrange of capabilities I understand your point regarding THIS case. But the same could be said for Sakura and Tsunade here. They both have long range attacks if they summon Katsuyu and spit acid for a long distance. They can attack while defending themselves, they can hide in Katsuyu while it spits acid, or they can instantly regenerate while attacking.

So basically.
I lack speed to land a hit, my body inst made of steel therefore i'm not good against long ranged jutsus.
So i'll waste a lot of chakra to just summon Katsuyu and hide inside it's body while it shoots acid until the opponent concedes...(ignoring the fact it's still vulnerable as much as Sakura is).
Comparable to Gaara doesnt come close really.

Sakura/Tsunade lacks versatibility on their fighting skills on which greatly undermine their strenght, if any her small attack against Madara spoiled her whole fighting strategy, she has to get close to land a hit on the target otherwise it's useless like Kakashi pointed out on the begining of the shippuuden.
That's the solely reason why people wants her to have "slug sage mode" or whatever because she needs speed, and more jutsus a ninja cant just rely on a single attack.
Not even Gaara do this, and even Naruto too, whilist he has Rasengan he managed to have a lot of variants of the same technique.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 17 July 2014 - 12:30 PM.

[ramenanmitsu]

"Baseless assumption".Well you started it first with the only chakra consumption thing, i just showed that her setting up a barrrier and holding up the kyuubi with her chains after giving birth and losing a bijuu is more impressive than giving chakra to someome whem you was literally rested, also she didnt opened a barrier she give chakra to obito open it.Baseless assumption no.2"Obito creating portals" not Sakura, the baseless assumption that you pointed out is the whole fact you're giving the whole credit to Sakura alone, a feat impressive the fact she was capable of giving chakra enough to it but not as much impressive as Kushina as an example.That's the problem, he ranked her higher because of defensive capabilities which arent over the top, she can regenerate but her body inst made of steel.Katsuyu summoning to defend, if she does so how's she's going to attack on his scenario she's supposed to fight not stand still waiting for the opponent to attack makes no sense since she's giving time for them.It obviously makes sense, "it's thanks to the chakra reserves that nobody lost like that".It's not thanks to asspulls jutsus that nobody lost like that?If i remember Itachi won against Sasuke because he used Susano'o when he was about to be destroyed by Kirin, Naruto won against Pain with Rasengan and lots of clones and he didnt win because Pain didnt had any more chakra, because he still had.Naruto's fight against Obito ten tails, a combined attack with Sasuke and Obito had plenty of chakra.Kisame had large chakra reserves but he managed to win the battles by sucking away the chakra of his opponents, proof of it was his fight against Bee, chakra reserves means nothing if you're not capable of doing a lot of things to it.(not even mentioning the ammount of jutsus he has).Sakura has chakra reserves but she can do little with it aside from using her regen jutsu and super strenght.She can regen herself but her body is not made of steel, "she can hide in Katsuyu's body"Katsuyu's body only absorb physical attacks but it's vulnerable to wind techniques mostly "cutting techniques" and Sakura's body is vulnerable aswell.Katsuyu's attack is only effective against other summons, the big Katsuyu is slow and also easy to avoid it.Also no one evern summoned Katsuyu to hide inside it, not even when Tsunade fought against Orochimaru.Also in order to regenerate it still consume Sakura's chakra, she's going to spend a lot of chakra just to spit acid on the opponent on which has a big chance to not hit, and can easily be countered with win cutting jutsu.Sakura/Tsunade lacks versatibility on their fighting skills on which greatly undermine their strenght, if any her small attack against Madara spoiled her whole fighting strategy, she has to get close to land a hit on the target otherwise it's useless like Kakashi pointed out on the begining of the shippuuden.That's the solely reason why people wants her to have "slug sage mode" or whatever because she needs speed, and more jutsus a ninja cant just rely on a single attack.Not even Gaara do this, and even Naruto too, whilist he has Rasengan he managed to have a lot of variants of the same technique.

Please quote where I said that 'Sakura opened the portals' . Please specifically quote the part where I was not aware that it was Obito who opened them. Stop putting words in my mouth. Thank you.

You know what? Impressive is a subjective view. I'm not going to oppose you if you think Kushina is more 'impressive' than Sakura. Feel free to Think so. I'm only going to disagree when you start talking it as facts. You're just stating what you want to think so no reason for me to oppose you there.

So if you don't have a body of steel you don't have strong defensive capabilities. Okay, I guess, Gaara and Neji's defensive capabilities aren't so great after all. Oh but since it's Gaara and Neji, I'm SURE you're going to make an exception for them.

So you think that Sakura is just going to stand there while Katsuyu stands in front of her? You're right, if she DOES stand there doing nothing, playing cards, waiting for the enemy to attack she is going to get killed. Unfortunately for you, that's not going to happen.

Katsuyu is weak to cutting attacks? Panel please.

Katsuyu is only effective to summons? Panels proving her being ineffective to non-summon battles please. And by the way, I think you know that being effective to other summons does not equate to being ineffective to usual battles.

Katsuyu is slow. Panels please.
Just because we have never seen her move, it doesn't automatically mean she is slow.

No one summoned Katsuyu to hide in it? In case you forgot, Tsunade summoned Katsuyu to protect the villagers from Pein. The people were hiding or covered in Katsuyu.

Your point of chakra reserves does not refute my point saying that 'nobody lost the battle because of depleted chakra reserves because they had enough chakra reserves. So the villains lost the battle due to asspulls jutsu? I agree. So? They had enough chakra reserves in the end. I agree. So? What is the point of reinforcing my point?

Sakura can 'only' regenerate and have super strength. Gaara can 'only' use sand techniques. Deidara can 'only' use bombs. Sasori can 'only use puppets.

If you're going to pull out Madara's fight to discuss about Sakura, I'll do the same for Mei. Mei's powers are useless because her attacks doesn't connect with Madara since she's a long range fighter and it gives him time to dodge or repent the attack.

She needs speed? Since she got the Byakugou no jutsu, show me a panel where she was slow? Unless, you're saying that she's slow compared to Madara or Kaguya, I don't remember a panel when she was slow since she opened the seal. In fact, I thought she was fast, when she punched the clone with super strength and caught up to it. It's like hitting a home run and reaching said ball in time. As I said, panels please.

In Sakura's case, she has the defensive capabilities more than the offensive capabilities. And I think that they are equally as important. I don't give a kitten about how many offensive jutsu a person has if it doesn't do any damage towards a person with a strong defense.

[rocci]

I will use power level.
After this chapter, sakura is legitimately a low tier kage level with the possibility to reach mid tier kage level.

[Atheck]

Concussive force doesn't work on Katsuyu, that includes air currents and Fuuton. She admitted that the high speed acceleration of teleportation, the kind which everyone assumed that only someone as physically stalwart as the Raikage could handle, wasn't an issue for her. Almost no one has demonstrated a feat of equal impression, with the possible exception of the strongest jinchuuriki, since then.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

So if you don't have a body of steel you don't have strong defensive capabilities. Okay, I guess, Gaara and Neji's defensive capabilities aren't so great after all. Oh but since it's Gaara and Neji, I'm SURE you're going to make an exception for them.

i'm talking specifically about Sakura, the body of steel is that despite she having a regeneration, it's suless if she's cut in half or melted with acid.
She can endure stabs because of regeneration.
 

So you think that Sakura is just going to stand there while Katsuyu stands in front of her? You're right, if she DOES stand there doing nothing, playing cards, waiting for the enemy to attack she is going to get killed. Unfortunately for you, that's not going to happen.

She inst going to defeat the opponent either unless he has a jutsu to take her down or use another summoning.
And summons has a time limit.
 

Katsuyu is weak to cutting attacks? Panel please.

Orochimaru vs Tsunade/Jiraiya plz.
And how easily her body can be split, it actually wasnt cutting but mandra splitting her by simply pressure her with it's body.
 

Katsuyu is only effective to summons? Panels proving her being ineffective to non-summon battles please. And by the way, I think you know that being effective to other summons does not equate to being ineffective to usual battles.

Provide panels Tsunade using Katsuyu wiht the strategy you pointed out, if i remember when she fought Orochimaru and even Madara she didnt used Katsuyu to hide and wait Madara attack her.
 

Katsuyu is slow. Panels please.
Just because we have never seen her move, it doesn't automatically mean she is slow.

Tsunade vs Orochimaru/Jiraiya she's slow.
 

No one summoned Katsuyu to hide in it? In case you forgot, Tsunade summoned Katsuyu to protect the villagers from Pein. The people were hiding or covered in Katsuyu.

Still she ended without chakra and lost the fight, to be able to withstand a jutsu by the opponent who had more jutsus on it's sleeve.
She was able to withstand at the cost of all of her chakra.
 

Your point of chakra reserves does not refute my point saying that 'nobody lost the battle because of depleted chakra reserves because they had enough chakra reserves. So the villains lost the battle due to asspulls jutsu? I agree. So? They had enough chakra reserves in the end. I agree. So? What is the point of reinforcing my point?

Yes it does because jutsus won the battle not chakra reserves, and mostly important with what they do with it, your examples were poor to describe how chakra reserves decide a fight.
 

Sakura can 'only' regenerate and have super strength. Gaara can 'only' use sand techniques. Deidara can 'only' use bombs. Sasori can 'only use puppets.

You're correct, however his sand techniques are versatiles, Deidara bombs are versatiles at some extent, Sasori's puppets are versatile since it can from using traps to different kinds of jutsus.
HEr regeneration and super strenght aren't versatile since her strategy alongside with Tsunade was using herself as a meat shield and landing a punch, which previously she needed Raikage's speed and Tsuchikage to use a technique to enhance her punch to hit Madara and destroy susano'o.
 

If you're going to pull out Madara's fight to discuss about Sakura, I'll do the same for Mei. Mei's powers are useless because her attacks doesn't connect with Madara since she's a long range fighter and it gives him time to dodge or repent the attack.

I'm not pulling out Madara's fight to explain her powerlevel, i'm talking about her strategy since then and how Tsunade fought previously not just with Madara but other villains aswell, they only fought like that, wanting to land a punch even if it means using it's own body as a shield, i never see them doing something else offensively.
Mei despite being strong was fighting against Madara and should not be used as a means to compare powerlevel, because i'm not judging neitehr Sakura or Tsunade based on their effectiveness against Madara but rather their strategy, how their resources always end up with going to land a punch.
 

She needs speed? Since she got the Byakugou no jutsu, show me a panel where she was slow? Unless, you're saying that she's slow compared to Madara or Kaguya, I don't remember a panel when she was slow since she opened the seal. In fact, I thought she was fast, when she punched the clone with super strength and caught up to it. It's like hitting a home run and reaching said ball in time. As I said, panels please.

Panels never showed she was fast though, she's not fast as a form of overwhelming the opponent, she's not slow neither.
I can say her speed is normal.
those panels about her punching a fodder then jumping and punching him again, this ain't speed since we dont know she was fast either.
None of them praised her speed.
 

In Sakura's case, she has the defensive capabilities more than the offensive capabilities. And I think that they are equally as important. I don't give a kitten about how many offensive jutsu a person has if it doesn't do any damage towards a person with a strong defense.

No one here's is putting focus on offensive capabilities over defensive, i'm seriously talking about versatibility, which Sakura/Tsunade lacks and it restrain their strategies.
 

Concussive force doesn't work on Katsuyu, that includes air currents and Fuuton. She admitted that the high speed acceleration of teleportation, the kind which everyone assumed that only someone as physically stalwart as the Raikage could handle, wasn't an issue for her. Almost no one has demonstrated a feat of equal impression, with the possible exception of the strongest jinchuuriki, since then.

Yes and i expressed it, but wind can cut and that works on Katsuyu's body since it's some form of slimy body.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 17 July 2014 - 02:21 PM.

[ramenanmitsu]

i'm talking specifically about Sakura, the body of steel is that despite she having a regeneration, it's suless if she's cut in half or melted with acid.She can endure stabs because of regeneration.

You're assuming that her regeneration techniques can't heal regenerate her burned skin or regenerate her body when it's stabbed. Actually, we don't have a panel of this. I shouldn't assume she can regenerate burns or cutting in half just as much as you can't assume that she can't because we don't know the full extent of her regeneration abilities. I think it's fair if we drop this.

 She inst going to defeat the opponent either unless he has a jutsu to take her down or use another summoning.And summons has a time limit. 

Well, at least Sakura's summons lasted longer than Naruto's summon.

And wow. That's a lot of purposefully disadvantageous scenario you have in your head towards Sakura. So Sakura is not going to defeat her opponent after she summons Katsuyu regardless of whoever the opponent is? Sasori, Zetsu, Iruka or Moegi. Lol. What kind of an argument is that? This is grasping at straws so you can prove how weak Sakura is by creating an imaginary opponent and assuming she cannot attack him.

Regarding the summons time, it might last long enough to defeat this imaginary opponent or it might not. It depends on the battle. You concluding that it won't last long till the end of the fight is another one of your baseless assumptions.

Orochimaru vs Tsunade/Jiraiya plz.And how easily her body can be split, it actually wasnt cutting but mandra splitting her by simply pressure her with it's body. 

She purposefully split her body. I read the databook and that defense jutsu is called "Katsuyu Daibunkatsu". Her ability to easily split is her defense trait, and it doesn't prove that she can be cut easily.

Provide panels Tsunade using Katsuyu wiht the strategy you pointed out, if i remember when she fought Orochimaru and even Madara she didnt used Katsuyu to hide and wait Madara attack her.

What the kitten? You are the one who said that using Katsuyu is ineffective to non-summon battle. YOU are the one is obliged to provide the panel of YOUR OWN statement.

 Tsunade vs Orochimaru/Jiraiya she's slow.

We didn't see her move. She just stayed there because she didn't have to move or tank any attack that came her way. So that fight doesn't prove anything regards her speed.

 Still she ended without chakra and lost the fight, to be able to withstand a jutsu by the opponent who had more jutsus on it's sleeve.She was able to withstand at the cost of all of her chakra.

She ended without chakra because she had to do creation all rebirth and cover THE ENTIRE kittening village. And you know this.

 Yes it does because jutsus won the battle not chakra reserves, and mostly important with what they do with it, your examples were poor to describe how chakra reserves decide a fight. 

You have completely missed my point. I'm not going to repeat myself for the third time.

You're correct, however his sand techniques are versatiles, Deidara bombs are versatiles at some extent, Sasori's puppets are versatile since it can from using traps to different kinds of jutsus.HEr regeneration and super strenght aren't versatile since her strategy alongside with Tsunade was using herself as a meat shield and landing a punch, which previously she needed Raikage's speed and Tsuchikage to use a technique to enhance her punch to hit Madara and destroy susano'o. 

This is the only valid statement you made so far. I must say I agree. It doesn't change my overall matter on the opinion though.

I'm not pulling out Madara's fight to explain her powerlevel, i'm talking about her strategy since then and how Tsunade fought previously not just with Madara but other villains aswell, they only fought like that, wanting to land a punch even if it means using it's own body as a shield, i never see them doing something else offensively.Mei despite being strong was fighting against Madara and should not be used as a means to compare powerlevel, because i'm not judging neitehr Sakura or Tsunade based on their effectiveness against Madara but rather their strategy, how their resources always end up with going to land a punch.

Then your argument is invalid. If you watched the Sasori fight. You know that acting like a meatshield and then attacking like she did towards Madara, isn't the ONLY strategy she used.

 Panels never showed she was fast though, she's not fast as a form of overwhelming the opponent, she's not slow neither.I can say her speed is normal.those panels about her punching a fodder then jumping and punching him again, this ain't speed since we dont know she was fast either.None of them praised her speed. 

Then that means your previous argument of Sakura needing speed is invalid. Because as you said, there are no panels.

No one here's is putting focus on offensive capabilities over defensive, i'm seriously talking about versatibility, which Sakura/Tsunade lacks and it restrain their strategies.

Yeah so? We put it the offensive capabilities into consideration as well. Unless you can read our minds, shut up and stop accusing us as if we ONLY considered defensive capabilities. Well, you think versatility is better and I think defense capability is more important. We have different opinions. Since your opinions did nothing to convince me you can stop your 'STOP OVERRATING SAKURA!! SHE'S NOT THAT GREAT!' Propaganda now.

Yes and i expressed it, but wind can cut and that works on Katsuyu's body since it's some form of slimy body.

She can divide herself so no problem!

Oh and by the way, 'wind can cut through slimy body' is another one of your baseless assumption.

Edited by ramenanmitsu, 17 July 2014 - 03:41 PM.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

You're assuming that her regeneration techniques can't heal regenerate her burned skin or regenerate her body when it's stabbed. Actually, we don't have a panel of this. I shouldn't assume she can regenerate burns or cutting in half just as much as you can't assume that she can't because we don't know the full extent of her regeneration abilities. I think it's fair if we drop this.

They cannot while taking consecutive damage which is what acid does.
While i'm not just restraining into it.
 

And wow. That's a lot of purposefully disadvantageous scenario you have in your head towards Sakura. So Sakura is not going to defeat her opponent after she summons Katsuyu regardless of whoever the opponent is? Sasori, Zetsu, Iruka or Moegi. Lol. What kind of an argument is that? This is grasping at straws so you can prove how weak Sakura is by creating an imaginary opponent and assuming she cannot attack him.

That's the scenario you bought up.
 

She purposefully split her body. I read the databook and that defense jutsu is called "Katsuyu Daibunkatsu". Her ability to easily split is her defense trait, and it doesn't prove that she can be cut easily.
What the kitten? You are the one who said that using Katsuyu is ineffective to non-summon battle. YOU are the one is obliged to provide the panel of YOUR OWN statement.

A defensive move from Katsuyu not the summoner which si the scenario you bought up, i dont think splitting herself like that protected Tsunade because she wansnt hiding.
 

She ended without chakra because she had to do creation all rebirth and cover THE ENTIRE kittening village. And you know this.

Yes i know, i just pointed out the wasted a lot of chakra to do this, and also the most important fact despite she covered the villagers wiht the Katsuyu she had to heal them too.
Which means that they're affected by it regardless Katsuyu absorb capabilities.
 

Then your argument is invalid. If you watched the Sasori fight. You know that acting like a meatshield and then attacking like she did towards Madara, isn't the ONLY strategy she used.
Then that means your previous argument of Sakura needing speed is invalid. Because as you said, there are no panels.

If you also watched Sasori's fight, you should know that her only strategy there was still to punch Sasori and the other aspect she showed was the fact she made an antidote but when the Sasori went all out she was just one of the puppets from Chiyo, because being her puppet her evasion increased.
Sakura didnt fought alone there, i'm not taking out her merit on that fight, but her strategy there was the same but she wasnt fighting alone.
 The only difference is that on that case she didnt had the seal to allow herself to be used as a meat shield and Sasori had poison, so her strategy kept being the same, get close to punch and she did that with Chiyo's help.

Yeah so? We put it the offensive capabilities into consideration as well. Unless you can read our minds, shut up and stop accusing us as if we ONLY considered defensive capabilities. Well, you think versatility is better and I think defense capability is more important. We have different opinions. Since your opinions did nothing to convince me you can stop your 'STOP OVERRATING SAKURA!! She's not that great!!' Propaganda now. This has gone nowhere.
She can divide herself so no problem!

i'm accusing of people giving too credit for her defensive abilities and forgot she lacks versatibility and is a ninja that is supposed to not fight but support while i emphasized this over and over, her skills roster shows this.
 

Oh and by the way, 'wind can cut through slimy body' is another one of your baseless assumption.

Yep Katsuyu's body is made of titanium.
I'll end with agree to disagree.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 17 July 2014 - 03:51 PM.

[ramenanmitsu]

They cannot while taking consecutive damage which is what acid does. While i'm not just restraining into it.

Sigh......another baseless assumption.

That's the scenario you bought up.

The only scenario I brought up is that she can summon Katsuyu for defensive purposes (like Tsunade did during the Pein attack). That scenario of Sakura not being able to attack the opponent and all that crap is what YOU brought up.

A defensive move from Katsuyu not the summoner which si the scenario you bought up, i dont think splitting herself like that protected Tsunade because she wansnt hiding.

Who the hell talked about Katsuyu Daibunkatsu protecting Tsunade in that fight?

Yes i know, i just pointed out the wasted a lot of chakra to do this, and also the most important fact despite she covered the villagers wiht the Katsuyu she had to heal them too.Which means that they're affected by it regardless Katsuyu absorb capabilities.

I don't understand your point. She used a lot of chakra NOT ONLY because she summoned Katsuyu, but she used the creational rebirth on ALL the villagers. Of course she will exhaust her chakra.

.If you also watched Sasori's fight, you should know that her only strategy there was still to punch Sasori and the other aspect she showed was the fact she made an antidote but when the Sasori went all out she was just one of the puppets from Chiyo, because being her puppet her evasion increased.Sakura didnt fought alone there, i'm not taking out her merit on that fight, but her strategy there was the same but she wasnt fighting alone.

Her only strategy is to punch Sasori? Sure, Naruto's only strategy is always to Rasengan the enemy.

Oh and Sakura isn't fighting alone? I guess we should take out Naruto's battle strategies when he was fighting Kakuzu, Obito and Madara, out of consideration because he wasn't fighting alone either.

.i'm accusing of people giving too credit for her defensive abilities and forgot she lacks versatibility and is a ninja that is supposed to not fight but support while i emphasized this over and over, her skills roster shows this.

I'm equally accusing you of desperately trying your very best to find any thing you can bash and undermine her. You think we're giving her too much credit? I think you're giving her too much blind hatred. I'm basing this from your other posts on this site. And I have a bit of advise if you feel uncomfortable about people talking positively about her. Go to the anti-Sakura FC.

Oh btw, I agree she's more of a supporter than a fighter.

Yep Katsuyu's body is made of titanium.I'll end with agree to disagree.

Oh so now you're putting more words to my mouth instead of providing panels to your statement. How sweet.

And now, that you said you have agreed to disagree, bye-bye!

Edit: in my previous posts I didn't reply to the parts you added AFTER I started my reply. So please do understand that I did not purposefully ignore certain parts of your argument.

Edited by ramenanmitsu, 17 July 2014 - 04:39 PM.

[Atheck]

Katsuyu may be a giant slug, but she's not exactly slow. In the Pain arc, she managed to reach every villager in Konoha within a very short period of time and protect them from Shinra Tensei. In addition, Katsuyu intercepted Animal Realm's rhino summoning and protected the intelligence team almost instantly when it attacked and at point blank range too. These shinobi were pretty capable themselves. Shizune happened to be part of the group that was rescued and she has a 4.0 in speed.

[Chatte]

What is with this Sakura underrating? I feel like I'm on NB... O_o

Also, people keep mentioning how Sakura nor Tsunade have long-ranged attackes, however, do people forget that Sakura was put in the mid-range category in the war?

Not to mention their AOT can very much suffice for their apparent lack of long-ranged attacks. Hell, one advantage they have is that they can use terrain to their advantage..
Come on now, what's with this gross underrating?

Edited by Chatte, 18 July 2014 - 10:36 AM.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

What is with this Sakura underrating? I feel like I'm on NB... O_o
Also, people keep mentioning how Sakura nor Tsunade have long-ranged attackes, however, do people forget that Sakura was put in the mid-range category in the war?

I was exclusively talking about versatibility, Naruto didnt had long-ranged attacks either but he turned his short ranged rasengan into long ranged, it means that his rasengan is versatile whilisth Sakura's punch is not.
 

Not to mention their AOT can very much suffice for their apparent lack of long-ranged attacks. Hell, one advantage they have is that they can use terrain to their advantage..
Come on now, what's with this gross underrating?

Terrain is the same for both sides.
"Gross underrating"

-Sakura/Tsunade strongest Kunoichis, while Mei, Kushina are stronger than them.
 

I'm equally accusing you of desperately trying your very best to find any thing you can bash and undermine her. You think we're giving her too much credit? I think you're giving her too much blind hatred.

Debate is different than bashing, i'm pointing out reasons why she's not the top 1 or top 2, not saying his weak and useless like you're literally sugesting in your posts.
"blinded hatred" - i'm being realistic, i think she lacks skills to be the strongest kunoichi alongisde with Tsunade while other characters like Mei, as an example, showed to be more versatile and strong.
 

I'm basing this from your other posts on this site. And I have a bit of advise if you feel uncomfortable about people talking positively about her. Go to the anti-Sakura FC.

That's the same pattern i also see, you either love Sakura or you're a hater, you cant criticize or point out obvious flaws because she's perfect she doesnt have any weakness, but she's the strongest kunoichi on Naruto's world while only possessing her super strenght as offensive capability and a limited strategy while other characters have lots of variants.
I'm not anti-Sakura either but i think that NaruSaku forum doesnt imply Sakura fan forum.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 18 July 2014 - 03:01 PM.

[rocci]

In the next arc, sakura will become the strongest kunoichi alive.
Compare to sakura(&tsunade) Mei has more versatility(option) of attack than them. But it doesn't mean sakura(&tsunade) would instantly lose to Mei.