105 replies to this topic

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Yes, it is a real interview. 2009 Shonen Jump I believe.

As for the love fodder scene...

It could be that Sakura still holds somewhat of feelings for Sasuke, but at the same time it is more of a matter of conflict. She pictures Sasuke in the dark surrounded by fire as though her past love is burning. It can be seen as her realizing that maybe she doesn't love him and that this is her moving on. 

PLUS and I don't know why everyone keeps forgetting this...we have this.

chapter 573

Why is everyone so adamant about chapter 540 and that crap, but disregard everything she thinks and says in chapter 573? To me, 573 basically tells me that 540 is a red herring and Sakura is going to stay by Naruto til the end of time if she has to. This in spite of Sasuke and in spite of the so called "love" she has for him. It's not like she doesn't know about the upcoming battle at this point.

Why disregard 573 so much? I think it shows a lot more how she feels than chapter 540.

You also have to view this from a writer's stand point in that you have to keep up the drama until the end. You just can't think of this as straight as a story because a story is easily manipulative into what they want you to think and feel.

If the lover-nin mentioned this comment and then she thought of a positive view of Naruto in her head, the pairing war would be over. There would be no more discussion as it would prove alone that NaruSaku is canon right then and there, but because Kishimoto wants to keep it going till the end where he can wrap everything up, then he has to show a red herring to keep you reading to see what happens next. This same logic is the very reason why she doesn't view Sasuke in a positive light either because if she did, then the pairing wars would be over and SS would be canon instead.

Of course, you could also ask "Why did he even make this scene at all if it is just a red herring?" Well, other than for the sake of the drama, it could be used a set up to NS in the end. The fact that at that point she started to see the real Sasuke means she doesn't love him. She was only in love with the idea of him. This false image that is burned away to reveal an evil man behind it. It has to show Sakura changing her feelings and view the truth.

It can happen when you first fall in love with someone only to realize that in truth they are not what you expected of them.

It also interesting, if you think of it like this, that these two pairings of NH and SS would be so easy to bring together and make canon all the way back in part 1. The fact that neither pairing occurs that early and there is always "a wall there" really truly speaks to me saying that they are not meant to happen. Think about that. You know how easy making NH and SS canon would be and yet Kishimoto has done everything in the story to keep these pairings from happening. Meanwhile NS got all this development first hand, lots of emotional scenes, and they are always there. There was no walls between them. The only thing stopping it was the character themselves refusing to accept that they deserve it.

What gets my gears really grinding is when I hear Naruto fans say that whenever Sakura thinks of Sasuke whether in a good or bad light, it is romantic, but if she thinks of Naruto it is ignored all together or it is just platonic. Same for Naruto. If he thinks of Sakura in a positive light...it gets ignored or Naruto gets called stupid. Negative light: they jump on it saying how "smart" Naruto is for not falling for it....Yet, at times, other characters tell Naruto "You don't understand a woman's heart at all." We also have moments where is Naruto says "I love Sakura" or something to confirm his feelings for her...."Oh Naruto is so stupid and doesn't know what he is talking about." However, Naruto mentions Hinata's name even once....."OMG, THEY ARE SO GETTING TOGETHER."

Sorry but 573 also doesnt show much about she wanting to be Naruto's wife or whatesover, in a way that's not the impression the moments gets but rather her desire to help Naruto and be acknowledged because of it.
I mean he saved her life pratically Sakura should be dead if wasnt Naruto and her motivation is there.
540, shows that she stills like Sasuke however on the current standing we dont know where her feelings lie my impression is that she may still like Sasuke but i think she already decided to return Naruto's feelings because she matured by now.

[itsmesakura]

 

You know, before I ever got involved in fandom, I never even knew there was so much controversy over 540. I thought it was obvious what it meant, but I later discovered I was very wrong on that.

 

 

 

The fodder nin tells her that whoever she likes must be a great person, and then Sasuke appears in her mind, surrounded by dark flames. What this says, to me, is that Sakura is acknowledging that Sasuke is not a good person. Not that she's still in love with him. Her expression is sad, and she just looks defeated.

 

We don't know who she was actually thinking about when she said, "There's someone I--". Maybe it was Naruto, for all we know. Or maybe she was just looking for any reason to nicely reject this guy she doesn't know who comes up to her and says he "can't get her off his mind", lol.

 

Remember, the encounter with Sasuke, where he did not hesitate to try to kill her when she got in his way, would not have happened all that long ago in manga time. It's been years for readers but only, what, weeks for Sakura? It's not a lot of time to come to terms with the reality of who Sasuke has become and who she believed him to be. Her childhood image of Sasuke has been shattered, and even now with him on their side, at least temporarily, she does not trust him. Because now she understands, in a way that even Naruto has not been willing to accept, who Sasuke really is.

 

That's what 540 says to me, especially in light of recent events, like Sakura's fake smile. Hopefully it answered your concerns at least a little.

 

I have to agree with you, really... A lot of anti NS were pointing out that "Oh, Sakura still likes Sasuke, she never liked Naruto."

 

But if we look at Sakura's expression she wasn't impressed at all by Sasuke..

 

The ninja said that Sakura's crush must be a great guy, but Sakura thought about Sasuke in a negative light... I think she's wondering, how Sasuke can be one, and she feels that Sasuke is being swallowed over by a bunch of dark energy... In this chapter I think we are not focusing about Sakura's love, but about Sakura's disappointment to Sasuke... That Uchiha guy must have been the first one to come across her mind, but I think thts because of Sakura not realizing her love to Naruto.. I mean, judging from Kishi-San's interview that James S Cassidy posted, Kishi-San  is portraying Sakura as a honest and yet a stubborn girl, in which I think Sakura is sincere in loving Naruto, but she didn't want to get overlapped by emotions, and when she got rejected by Naruto surprisingly, she got angry, and I think her feelings are messed up, and being like the stubborn girl Kishi-San pointed out she got back and like Sasuke but deep down she actually loves Naruto...

 

That's only my thoughts anyway.. I don't know.. I just try to stand inside Sakura's shoes in this one...

[James S Cassidy]

Sorry but 573 also doesnt show much about she wanting to be Naruto's wif-

I got about this far before I just stopped. I realize that here in this post you throw off too many assumptions and put words in my mouth implicating something I didn't.

The biggest problem I have with some members of this forum is how narrow-sighted some have become and it's really starting to grind on me. This is something I expect from NH and SS fans, but when I see respectable NS fans starting to look at this manga that way I find myself very disappointed. All anybody wants to bring up is chapter 540. That's it. That is apparently the only chapter that matters anymore. Chapter 540 this...chapter 540 that. We are in chapter 667 and yet 540 matters more than all the stuff that has happened at this point? Why? All because some lover-nin brought the topic up?

Why is 540 so damn important that no other chapter matters? I say this because that's all some people wish to talk about. You might say I am wrong, but then why is it always brought up in conversation? Apparently, 573 matters little to anyone, but I didn't know that 540 also trumps 631, 663, and 649 and many other moments in this manga that seem to just suggest otherwise.

Despite having Sakura feel bad about it; despite thinking of Sasuke in a bad light, despite Sakura stating; showing, and mentally thinking of Naruto, people still insist that 540 makes it seem like she is still in love with the guy and see it as +1 proof that SS is canon half the time. I don't get it. Why so emphasis in driving this chapter home as the end all and be all of proof that SS is canon? And please, don't tell me "That's not what we are saying at all" because you wouldn't be bringing it up as often if you truly felt that way. The fact that I see this chapter being brought up AGAIN despite everything that has happened since then is a testament to the paranoia.

Why is it that whenever Sakura thinks of Sasuke, some here see it as romantic implications meanwhile all the times she thinks of Naruto is nothing more than just a friendship caring? Why can't Sakura care about Sasuke as just a teammate or a friend? People are too busy looking at this at face value and never really looking at it at a much deeper prospect....or for that matter what it means as a writing practice.

No matter how many long posts I write explaining why people are looking at this scene wrong, they continue to ignore it in favor of paranoia. How do you know it wasn't just a red herring? Not the first time we got one and certainly not the last. Look at Karin not recognizing the chakra belonging to Kabuto. Is that not a red herring as well to try and throw you off the trail? I also bring up the fact that if she thought of Naruto right here, it would be that NS was canon and the pairing wars would be over and yet no one comments on this one. No one has yet responded to their thought about this concept.

People have ignored my possibilities and just go on thinking 540 is still a +1 for SS. Meanwhile, I am sitting here saying "It is more of a negative than a positive." Think about this, you don't view the one you truly love in a negative light. EVER. Look at Karin's love for Sasuke. Even after he treated her like crap and almost killed her, she still is madly in love with him. If that is a testament to what love is in this manga, then certainly that shows that Karin is more in love with Sasuke than even part 1 Sakura. With that being said, who is Sakura with right now? Does that mean nothing at this moment or does 540 still trump it?

I just don't get it. Maybe I never will. All I can say is is I think people are letting their paranoia get the better of them and need to relax. Let the story flow as it is. After 615, 631, and 649, I have no worries anymore. I know what the outcome of this manga is going to be. If any other outcome occurs in the pairings wars other than NS, then I know Kishimoto is a terrible writer when it comes to love stories and that he only looks at what "looks good" and not "is good."

So far almost every prediction I have made since 663 has come true and I have done it with about a 5% margin of error.

 

 

Remember, the encounter with Sasuke, where he did not hesitate to try to kill her when she got in his way, would not have happened all that long ago in manga time. It's been years for readers but only, what, weeks for Sakura? It's not a lot of time to come to terms with the reality of who Sasuke has become and who she believed him to be. Her childhood image of Sasuke has been shattered, and even now with him on their side, at least temporarily, she does not trust him. Because now she understands, in a way that even Naruto has not been willing to accept, who Sasuke really is.

 

That's what 540 says to me, especially in light of recent events, like Sakura's fake smile. Hopefully it answered your concerns at least a little.

 

I am not entirely sure, but hasn't it only been like a week? The war itself has been going on barely, what, 2 days? Not even.

Edited by James S Cassidy, 08 March 2014 - 12:38 PM.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

I got about this far before I just stopped. I realize that here in this post you throw off too many assumptions and put words in my mouth implicating something I didn't.

The biggest problem I have with some members of this forum is how narrow-sighted some have become and it's really starting to grind on me. This is something I expect from NH and SS fans, but when I see respectable NS fans starting to look at this manga that way I find myself very disappointed. All anybody wants to bring up is chapter 540. That's it. That is apparently the only chapter that matters anymore. Chapter 540 this...chapter 540 that. We are in chapter 667 and yet 540 matters more than all the stuff that has happened at this point? Why? All because some lover-nin brought the topic up?

Why is 540 so damn important that no other chapter matters? I say this because that's all some people wish to talk about. You might say I am wrong, but then why is it always brought up in conversation? Apparently, 573 matters little to anyone, but I didn't know that 540 also trumps 631, 663, and 649 and many other moments in this manga that seem to just suggest otherwise.

Despite having Sakura feel bad about it; despite thinking of Sasuke in a bad light, despite Sakura stating; showing, and mentally thinking of Naruto, people still insist that 540 makes it seem like she is still in love with the guy and see it as +1 proof that SS is canon half the time. I don't get it. Why so emphasis in driving this chapter home as the end all and be all of proof that SS is canon? And please, don't tell me "That's not what we are saying at all" because you wouldn't be bringing it up as often if you truly felt that way. The fact that I see this chapter being brought up AGAIN despite everything that has happened since then is a testament to the paranoia.

Why is it that whenever Sakura thinks of Sasuke, some here see it as romantic implications meanwhile all the times she thinks of Naruto is nothing more than just a friendship caring? Why can't Sakura care about Sasuke as just a teammate or a friend? People are too busy looking at this at face value and never really looking at it at a much deeper prospect....or for that matter what it means as a writing practice.

No matter how many long posts I write explaining why people are looking at this scene wrong, they continue to ignore it in favor of paranoia. How do you know it wasn't just a red herring? Not the first time we got one and certainly not the last. Look at Karin not recognizing the chakra belonging to Kabuto. Is that not a red herring as well to try and throw you off the trail? I also bring up the fact that if she thought of Naruto right here, it would be that NS was canon and the pairing wars would be over and yet no one comments on this one. No one has yet responded to their thought about this concept.

People have ignored my possibilities and just go on thinking 540 is still a +1 for SS. Meanwhile, I am sitting here saying "It is more of a negative than a positive." Think about this, you don't view the one you truly love in a negative light. EVER. Look at Karin's love for Sasuke. Even after he treated her like crap and almost killed her, she still is madly in love with him. If that is a testament to what love is in this manga, then certainly that shows that Karin is more in love with Sasuke than even part 1 Sakura. With that being said, who is Sakura with right now? Does that mean nothing at this moment or does 540 still trump it?

I just don't get it. Maybe I never will. All I can say is is I think people are letting their paranoia get the better of them and need to relax. Let the story flow as it is. After 615, 631, and 649, I have no worries anymore. I know what the outcome of this manga is going to be. If any other outcome occurs in the pairings wars other than NS, then I know Kishimoto is a terrible writer when it comes to love stories and that he only looks at what "looks good" and not "is good."

So far almost every prediction I have made since 663 has come true and I have done it with about a 5% margin of error.
 
 
 
I am not entirely sure, but hasn't it only been like a week? The war itself has been going on barely, what, 2 days? Not even.

I'm talking about 540 because people bought up 540, not 573 or further chapters, we were discussing 540 not their relationship as whole you should read carefully the thread and the posts, you cant use 573 to dismiss what happened on 540 it's doesnt make any sense.
Also the thread is about Sakura's confession on which 540 is the result of what Sasuke actions inflicted on Sakura, not 573, 631 and etc...
Your claims are totally invalid when you said that you dont agree with me because it's like you're reading the manga from 667 towards the chapter 1.
The confession and 540 are connected.
 

I have to agree with you, really... A lot of anti NS were pointing out that "Oh, Sakura still likes Sasuke, she never liked Naruto."
 
But if we look at Sakura's expression she wasn't impressed at all by Sasuke..
 
The ninja said that Sakura's crush must be a great guy, but Sakura thought about Sasuke in a negative light... I think she's wondering, how Sasuke can be one, and she feels that Sasuke is being swallowed over by a bunch of dark energy... In this chapter I think we are not focusing about Sakura's love, but about Sakura's disappointment to Sasuke... That Uchiha guy must have been the first one to come across her mind, but I think thts because of Sakura not realizing her love to Naruto.. I mean, judging from Kishi-San's interview that James S Cassidy posted, Kishi-San  is portraying Sakura as a honest and yet a stubborn girl, in which I think Sakura is sincere in loving Naruto, but she didn't want to get overlapped by emotions, and when she got rejected by Naruto surprisingly, she got angry, and I think her feelings are messed up, and being like the stubborn girl Kishi-San pointed out she got back and like Sasuke but deep down she actually loves Naruto...
 
That's only my thoughts anyway.. I don't know.. I just try to stand inside Sakura's shoes in this one...

I know that this is not towards me but the logic that both you and baneko-chan i really dont get it.

Sakura is not impressed by the current Sasuke but how that actually dismiss the fact she didnt liked him anymore?
She saw him on a negative light like you said but once again it doenst dismiss.

Then later you say "Sasuke is the first one who comes at her mind" then you made the assumption "it's because she hasnt realized her love for Naruto yet".
Well it's invalid and being honest she has realized what she felt towards Naruto but i dont think it was love romantically speaking off.
On her confession she says it, she expresses what Naruto did to her and he was at her side but yet she wasnt in love with him.
And the reason is because there's something missing on their relationship on which i think most of the people hasnt realized it.
Naruto didnt acknowledged Sakura.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 08 March 2014 - 02:37 PM.

[Gojira]

I think people are misinterpreting Kishi's statement saying Sakura was being honest when....there was nothing really honest about the Fake confession

 

I think when Kishi says he was trying to portray her as an honest yet stubborn girl I think he meant in general not in that scene specifically also wouldn't that end the shipping wars right there and then if he flat out confirmed Sakura was being honest about loving Naruto?

 

@James Cassidy the problem is that chapter 540 directly contradicts Sakura's confession that she loves Naruto. The context some people are giving is that she still loves Sasuke but is acknowledging her growing feelings with Naruto when if that was the case Naruto would be shown in her thoughts as well. The reason its a big deal is that despite all the build-up and hype in the entire Part 2 chapter 540 pretty much takes a dump on all that, its not more important than the pro NS scenes we got going on currently but it just seems unlikely that she switches love interests off-panel. 

[BakeNeko-Chan]

I think people are misinterpreting Kishi's statement saying Sakura was being honest when....there was nothing really honest about the Fake confession

 

I think when Kishi says he was trying to portray her as an honest yet stubborn girl I think he meant in general not in that scene specifically also wouldn't that end the shipping wars right there and then if he flat out confirmed Sakura was being honest about loving Naruto?

 

@James Cassidy the problem is that chapter 540 directly contradicts Sakura's confession that she loves Naruto. The context some people are giving is that she still loves Sasuke but is acknowledging her growing feelings with Naruto when if that was the case Naruto would be shown in her thoughts as well. The reason its a big deal is that despite all the build-up and hype in the entire Part 2 chapter 540 pretty much takes a dump on all that, its not more important than the pro NS scenes we got going on currently but it just seems unlikely that she switches love interests off-panel. 

 

Uh, no. In the interview James posted, Kishi is responding directly to the accusation that Sakura used Naruto's feelings for her. He not speaking in general.

 

 

One of the interviewers: “Sakura had always been worried about Naruto, but her actions towards Naruto seem to have a different feel from before, she seems very anxious about Naruto…How does she feel about Sasuke-kun?”

Kishimoto: “As for Sakura… Sasuke… what about Sasuke? Naruto is close and she worries about Naruto as well, but as expected, she [loves or loved] Sasuke.

Interviewer: "Because of this, she acted quite haughty towards that guy. She used Naruto’s love for her and told him she loved him."

Kishimoto: "On the contrary…. I felt like depicting an honest girl, with a surprisingly stubborn impression.”

And Kishimoto also comments:

"So... she became such a character, but... well... from here on, maybe I should draw her showing a bit more spirit.
I figured I had placed her in a heroin-like situation
But from the readers I was told harshly that she wasn't heroin-ish at all
Perhaps I should show depict her a bit more like a heroin
Because you say 'Hinata Hinata,' I say 'She's not Hinata'"


Every time someone says Sakura's confession was fake or that she lied to Naruto or used him, I bring up this interview. This interview where they straight up ask Kishimoto and he says that she was being an "honest, but stubborn girl." He even laments that he was told by the fans that wasn't what they thought and he thought he depicted her true. If Kishimoto said she was being honest, then the confession was not fake. There really should be no more arguing at this point in time.

[Jenskott]

I think people are misinterpreting Kishi's statement saying Sakura was being honest when....there was nothing really honest about the Fake confession

 

 

Again this?

 

I am sorry telling this, but your statement is not logical. You have decided her confession HAs to be fake -and that is because you repeatedly refer to it like the Fake Confession-, so if the author tells she was being honest, people HAS to be misinterpreting him.

 

However, logic has that if the author says she was being honest, you are the one is misinterpreting the scene. I am sorry being blunt.

 

I think when Kishi says he was trying to portray her as an honest yet stubborn girl I think he meant in general not in that scene specifically

 

 

You think wrong. In the interview, the interviewer and Kishimoto talk about that scene, specifically. The former tells what he thought about that scene, and Kishimoto replies he thought he portrayed Sakura like a honest girl in that scene.

 

also wouldn't that end the shipping wars right there and then if he flat out confirmed Sakura was being honest about loving Naruto?

 

 

Nothing will ever end up the shipping wars. Check the Harry Potter fandom: Ron and Hermione and Harry and Ginny hooked up in the sixth book and were married for the end of the seventh. Seven years after, people still argues about it.

 

Have you seen The Slayers pairing wars? Lina outright tells at the climax of the second season that she cares about Gourry more than about the world. Fans still argue about it. Ranma 1/2 fandom? The main couple was painfully obvious, and Takahashi confirmed it flat out. People still argues about it. Evangelion? Anno said Asuka was in love with Shinji. People still argues about it. Mazinger-Z? In a manga scene Kouji tought about winning Sayaka over. There still are fans argue Kouji was not in love with Sayaka. Spider-Man? Peter got over Gwen's death, dated MJ, fell in love with her, proposed her and they got married (until the latest retcon... but that is another history). Gwen/Peter shippers still deny he loved MJ or he loved her more than Gwen...

 

The series' creator stating outright what the feelings of a character are SHOULD stop a shipping war... but it never does.

 

It is funny, but from what I have seen, endless and bitter shipping wars never happen in the fandoms of shows/books/comics finished before the middle or late nineties. Shippers of those fandoms get along well.

 

@James Cassidy the problem is that chapter 540 directly contradicts Sakura's confession that she loves Naruto. 

 

No, it does not.

 

It suggests perhaps Sakura still has feelings towards Sasuke, but it tells nothing -positive or negative- about her feelings towards Naruto.

 

I repeat: She having a crush on Sasuke does NOT mean she can not love Naruto.

 

Someone may fall in love with another person even if he/she loves or has previously loved another. Kenshin -from Rurouni Kenshin- loved Tomoe; but he fell in love with Kaoru. Superman had a crush on Lana Lang, but he fell in love with Lois Lane. An important plot point of Maison Ikkoku was Yusaku was afraid of Kyoko would never love him because she could not forget her late husband. That subplot was solved when Yusaku both accepted Kyoko would never forget Soichiro and understood she also loved him.

Edited by Jenskott, 08 March 2014 - 05:47 PM.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

I think people are misinterpreting Kishi's statement saying Sakura was being honest when....there was nothing really honest about the Fake confession
 
I think when Kishi says he was trying to portray her as an honest yet stubborn girl I think he meant in general not in that scene specifically also wouldn't that end the shipping wars right there and then if he flat out confirmed Sakura was being honest about loving Naruto?

Agree with you, people took Kishi's words too literal and even twisted it, like they dont know the different between "honest" and "honest expression".
Sakura had lied to Naruto and Naruto had lied to Sakura on different occasions in order to protect each other.
Sakura evaluated her feelings for Naruto during the confession, she didnt loved Naruto but chose him because he was better for her but that's not the outcome people expect they want her to love him and it's proved because of the missing crucial development NaruSaku has still to receive, Sakura received wakeup calls from other characters but the crucial aspect of this whole moment was that she started evaluating her feelings for Sasuke and that opens a door for her to move on.
She knows that chasing Sasuke is not worth it when there's a guy like Naruto who likes her but however it's denial to ignore all this and keep trying to show people that she loves Naruto now.
 

Again this?
 
I am sorry telling this, but your statement is not logical. You have decided her confession HAs to be fake -and that is because you repeatedly refer to it like the Fake Confession-, so if the author tells she was being honest, people HAS to be misinterpreting him.
 
However, logic has that if the author says she was being honest, you are the one is misinterpreting the scene. I am sorry being blunt.

 
You think wrong. In the interview, the interviewer and Kishimoto talk about that scene, specifically. The former tells what he thought about that scene, and Kishimoto replies he thought he portrayed Sakura like a honest girl in that scene.

Portrayted as an honest =/= being honest.
That's all i have to say to you.
If you still have doubts check the same interview and you'll see that he pretty much confirms that she still love Sasuke.
Both by him and later by Sakura herself when she's about to stab Sasuke.
You can twist it as much as you want but your logic is wrong.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 08 March 2014 - 05:51 PM.

[BakeNeko-Chan]

Portrayted as an honest =/= being honest.
That's all i have to say to you.
If you still have doubts check the same interview and you'll see that he pretty much confirms that she still love Sasuke.
Both by him and later by Sakura herself when she's about to stab Sasuke.
You can twist it as much as you want but your logic is wrong.

 

And who are you to decide that? Like Jenskott said, you and Pepsi are operating on the assumption that Sakura's confession must be fake and thus any other interpretation is wrong and illogical. That is your opinion so do not present it as if it is an indisputable fact when it's not.

[Jenskott]

Portrayted as an honest =/= being honest.

 

 

So, he was trying to protray her like a person honest... by making her being dishonest?

 

If he was portraying her like a person honest, then she WAS being honest.

 

That's all i have to say to you.

 

 

Then why did you keep writing and talking to me? If that was all that you had to tell me, then you should have stopped writing after this line.

 

If you still have doubts check the same interview and you'll see that he pretty much confirms that she still love Sasuke.

 

 

If you still have doubts check the same interiew and you'll see that NOWHERE he confirms she still loves Sasuke. Nowhere.

 

And nowhere he tells she is not in love with Naruto... which is the point.

 

Both by him and later by Sakura herself when she's about to stab Sasuke.

 

 

Point one: we are talking about the confession scene and if she lied when she told she was in love with Naruto; point two, Kishimoto told she was honest, and he never told she loved Sasuke; point three, that scene does not prove she loved Sasuke and it does not prove she was not in love with Naruto.

 

The point of this discussion is if Sakura lied when she told she loved Naruto. The point is not if she still loves Sasuke.

 

You can twist it as much as you want

 

 

... what is nothing.

 

I am twisting nothing, I do not want to twist anything and I have no reasons to twist anything, not only because the facts are on my side but also because I do not really care for this debate. My caring about shipping disputes would have to be ten times biggest than it is to even begin to entertain the possibility of twisting something to make an argument.

 

but your logic is wrong. 

 

 

No, it is not. And, honestly... in your last post you have ignored facts, made up with facts, jammed facts in a preconceived conclusion and missed the point of the argument. So, PLEASE, do NOT tell me my logic is wrong.

 

And honestly, but your whole post has felt rude, and even hostile: "That's all i have to say to you"? "You can twist it as much as you want"? Why that wording? I will assume you would not mean it and I have misread your tone. But if you meant it... well, honestly, when I write I try to offend nobody, and I apologize if someone has felt offended by my words. Sincerely, I meant no insult. In return, I request politeness. So, if you do not intend talking to me politely, I ask you do not talk to me at all.

[Inferno180]

Over the confession, it was ambiguous to say the least, as kishi said she is an honest girl but is stubborn.

 

She didn't want to be a burden or make naruto suffer because for all instances, we know naruto is stubborn and the promise was inadvertently almost like a death sentence and sakura didn't want this to ride on her friend.

 

Once more, as many NH and SS fans try to label 469 as the failfession or death of NS, they constantly forget the whole purpose and driving method of why sai told sakura about this. If anything, Sai was more or less the mediating force for why things turned out that way, even given how he himself said I am partially to blame for this. Really people who hate sakura and blindy assume she will love sasuke or naruto will just go with hinata, they forget this or completely missed the driving factors here: Sakura did the actions from the confession because of the info regarding sasuke and naruto.

 

Sakura was in a torn position because:

Sasuke, the guy she "loves" has caused all sorts of crap, he attacked bee and the cloud village, joined the akastuki, and was planning on attacking the leaf, later the 5 kage summit. This obiously made sakura sad.

Naruto on the other hand, her best friend, as revealed by sai, was trying so hard to get sasuke back, it was almost to the point it would end up killing him. Part of that drive to get sasuke back was because naruto has feelings for her yet she was basically in love with a criminal. Though in respect, sakura didn't realize until naruto told her that he was pursuing sasuke for reasons on his own aside from the promise, and any smart fan would know this to be true as he intended it before the promise was even made and as shizune told sakura too.

 

Really it was bad timing, the village was in ruins, the akastuki was on the move after naruto, the cloud village just had an international incident due to sasuke, it was a tough and impossible situation for her.

 

Though in respect, Sakura didn't go about it the best way, she saw for herself how sasuke had fallen which was an impact on her, but also how naruto still stood against it regardless. Really in all truth, its the events from the land of iron that have gone onto what we saw with sakura in the past year, not letting naruto handle it all on his own, vowing to help however she can. If anything has been evident, its moments from 573 and 630 that just keep ringing up again as all help each other again and again.

 

As much as SS fans are moaning right now over Sakura being with Naruto, if one thing has been true its been this in the war arc:

Sakura has been focused on Naruto and only Naruto, though she helped sasuke a bit, her concern has been on naruto, she knows she can trust him, yet its 635 which divides this up greatly, for still "loving" sasuke, she highly doesn't trust him.

 

Really I'll just say it, NS has gone further in this war than 615 for NH or whatever counts for SS in the recent times.

 

Its like this:

630, Sakura gives the speech of everyone helping naruto, this is directly desended of how she learned not to just leave all the work on naruto alone, as one shinobi said, he was doing it to protect them, rather it was how sakura said he considered them all comrades and that everyone had to pull their weight, she was doing her role. This is the exact opposite of how she used to just depend on him, rather than depend on him she is simply doing the opposite, she is doing whatever she can for him. Hell this can resonate with the Yamato speech of old times.

 

631, aside from the sakura-kushina parallel or foreshadow build, its how she advocated to naruto to fight, even with sasuke present, she advocates to naruto to let her fight, again just doing what she can in her power to help. Yet what we do see from her to sasuke in this chapter? She is wary and skeptical of him, I mean the guy tried to kill her only a couple days or weeks before depends how long the gap in time between the land of iron and 4th war actually is, given the construction of the leaf village in 617, by the anime at least, its inferred that perhaps about a month passed between the land of iron and the start of the 4th war. By the manga, its hard to imagine because either yamato helped assemble many buildings before leaving, the builders are very skilled and build stuff rapidly (maybe ninja construction workers who summon everything into place?) but in anycase, she was cautious of sasuke.

 

632. though it was shorter in terms of what she did, she unleashed her powers in that potenial to help her teammates. This was a her moment chapter.

 

635, short simple, sakura doesn't trust sasuke

 

662, sasuke is basically nowhere in her thoughts over this, but sakura is alarmed at what happened to naruto and even begins crying over the aspect of losing him

 

663, I would say this is the more critical of the 2 recent moments, no not the CPR, its the memories she had of him saying he would be hokage and her saying how she cannot let him die, thats the true point of the moment, now at this point in the story, its rather confirmed that sakura wants naruto to be hokage no matter what, its no surprise she will support naruto over sasuke in the hokage ordeal in the end. She vowed to not let him die.

 

Basically this is where we are right now, as for naruto's recovery left on a cliffhanger, well sakuras reaction to naruto being okay is another potential NS moment coming up.

[Hanabi]

i'm not sure, but i heard on another site the word kishimoto used to describe sakura during that event is "realistic girl" instead of "honest girl"

Edited by Hanabi, 08 March 2014 - 07:39 PM.

[Qia]

i'm not sure, but i heard on another site the word kishimoto used to describe sakura during that event is "realistic girl" instead of "honest girl"

 

Even if we were to use realistic rather than honest, there's still a question on what the confession means in that case. Does Kishi mean that it's realistic for a girl to be willing to use her best friend's feelings in order to get him to come home with her and be safe and not to be the one that's causing him pain? Or is it realistic for a girl, especially if we were to stick with Sakura's words after the confession, to come all the way there just to confess her feelings and, hopefully, get a friend to realize the truth: that it's too dangerous for him to keep doing what he is with enemies like the Akatsuki still after him. Therefore, it's best if he just gives up on that one friend he's chasing after and just go home because she wants him to be not only safe but to take the pain of the promise that he'd made to her away. 

 

So see? Switching the term realistic and honest still doesn't give us a clear interpretation to her confession. 

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

And who are you to decide that? Like Jenskott said, you and Pepsi are operating on the assumption that Sakura's confession must be fake and thus any other interpretation is wrong and illogical. That is your opinion so do not present it as if it is an indisputable fact when it's not.

Arent you doing the same?
How many people jumped on this thread to say that we cant label it as fake and trying to push saying she was honest.
If you dont agree just start with agree to disagree.
 

Even if we were to use realistic rather than honest, there's still a question on what the confession means in that case. Does Kishi mean that it's realistic for a girl to be willing to use her best friend's feelings in order to get him to come home with her and be safe and not to be the one that's causing him pain? Or is it realistic for a girl, especially if we were to stick with Sakura's words after the confession, to come all the way there just to confess her feelings and, hopefully, get a friend to realize the truth: that it's too dangerous for him to keep doing what he is with enemies like the Akatsuki still after him. Therefore, it's best if he just gives up on that one friend he's chasing after and just go home because she wants him to be not only safe but to take the pain of the promise that he'd made to her away. 
 
So see? Switching the term realistic and honest still doesn't give us a clear interpretation to her confession.

Only you not "us".
The reason why it's complex is because you guys are mostly trying to prove that she's in love with Naruto on her confession or even better trying to prove that the things she said there wasnt a lie.
Her confession wasnt meant to be a love confession and it wasnt.
There are many things on her confession that doesnt resemble it, even before it we have her crying and being forced to take a decision for Naruto's sake.
She decides to "force" Naruto to give up on his chase on Sasuke using Naruto's feelings.
However despite being a bad action she cant be bashed for this which is why Kishi took up the microphone during the VA's interview when Sakura's VA almost bashed Sakura's character.
People(NH/SS) only saw the negative side of her confession while most of NS fans were most focused on trying to take down the fact she lied on her confession.

The confession is plain and simple, while the scene "sucked", it showed Sakura being noble and capable of sacrificing greater things for Naruto, she went to sacrifice her love for Sasuke and at the same time put her own life at the stake for the sake of lessening Naruto's pain(heroine situation) but no, no one cares about it because the goal is to prove that Sakura is in love with Naruto now or meanwhile the other side wants to show that Sakura is deceitfull.
Take it as you wish and i'll end with agree to disagree because she lied on her confession and the manga and the interview supports the fact she lied there with even Kishi confirming Sakura's love for Sasuke once again.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 08 March 2014 - 08:26 PM.

[Qia]

Arent you doing the same?
How many people jumped on this thread to say that we cant label it as fake and trying to push saying she was honest.
If you dont agree just start with agree to disagree.
 
Only you not "us".
The reason why it's complex is because you guys are mostly trying to prove that she's in love with Naruto on her confession or even better trying to prove that the things she said there wasnt a lie.
Her confession wasnt meant to be a love confession and it wasnt.
There are many things on her confession that doesnt resemble it, even before it we have her crying and being forced to take a decision for Naruto's sake.
She decides to "force" Naruto to give up on his chase on Sasuke using Naruto's feelings.
However despite being a bad action she cant be bashed for this which is why Kishi took up the microphone during the VA's interview when Sakura's VA almost bashed Sakura's character.
People(NH/SS) only saw the negative side of her confession while most of NS fans were most focused on trying to take down the fact she lied on her confession.

The confession is plain and simple, while the scene "sucked", it showed Sakura being noble and capable of sacrificing greater things for Naruto, she went to sacrifice her love for Sasuke and at the same time put her own life at the stake for the sake of lessening Naruto's pain but no, no one cares about it because the goal is to prove that Sakura is in love with Naruto now or meanwhile the other side wants to show that Sakura is deceitfull.
Take it as you wish and i'll end with agree to disagree because she lied on her confession and the manga and the interview supports the fact she lied there with even Kishi confirming Sakura's love for Sasuke once again.

 I don't get the first statement. 

 

Also, I don't believe that it's complex because I'm trying to prove that she has feelings for Naruto. I believe it's complex because we haven't been given an answer on whether she was telling the truth or not. The confession being fake is an interpretation not a fact (and I know it's also the other way around if you believe she was honest). Her confession is complex because it brings up too many questions. Was she telling the truth? Was she lying? If she was lying, then why didn't we see her apologizing to Naruto? I mean, she would have used his feelings for her after all. What was Kakashi going to say as she was speaking during her confession ("Sakura...you..."  You what?). Why was Sakura blushing? (if it was manipulation and for the sake of keeping Naruto safe, then she shouldn't have felt embarrassed right?). Why was she THAT offended after her confession about Naruto questioning why she would come all this way just to tell him that? ("you think it's easy for a girl to confess her feelings?") Or is it that Sakura's just that good at manipulation and acting? 

 

Again, her using Naruto's feelings? An interpretation. If her confession was fake, then she really was using Naruto's feelings and there's no way around that, even if you say Kishi was trying to defend her with those words (which we really don't know what he had in mind when he said that). 

Edited by Qia, 08 March 2014 - 08:38 PM.

[Hanabi]

 

Even if we were to use realistic rather than honest, there's still a question on what the confession means in that case. Does Kishi mean that it's realistic for a girl to be willing to use her best friend's feelings in order to get him to come home with her and be safe and not to be the one that's causing him pain? Or is it realistic for a girl, especially if we were to stick with Sakura's words after the confession, to come all the way there just to confess her feelings and, hopefully, get a friend to realize the truth: that it's too dangerous for him to keep doing what he is with enemies like the Akatsuki still after him. Therefore, it's best if he just gives up on that one friend he's chasing after and just go home because she wants him to be not only safe but to take the pain of the promise that he'd made to her away. 

 

So see? Switching the term realistic and honest still doesn't give us a clear interpretation to her confession. 

i don't see much of a difference between your first and second example, but yeah, girl = romance-centric people in kishimoto's opinion, i think.

Edited by Hanabi, 08 March 2014 - 08:38 PM.

[Qia]

i don't see much of a difference between your first and second example, but yeah, girl = romance-centric people in kishimoto's opinion, i think.

 In the first one she's just using his feelings as an advantage. In the second she really just went there to confess the feelings that she does have for him, keeping in mind that it would also mean that he wouldn't have to chase after Sasuke for her anymore (hence why after she says I love you, she goes on to say that he doesn't have to chase after Sasuke for her anymore because of that). In both cases it presents a realistic girl: realistically all she knows is that she causes him pain with the promise and that, if she confesses, there's a chance that her friend will know longer be in danger and in pain because of her. And then realistically, in the second one, if she confesses the feelings that she has for him then it sort of knocks two problems out of the way, right? Because after finding out he has feelings for her, it's realistic for a girl just to go all the way there to express them rather than wait knowing he's in danger. Is that more understandable or? 

Edited by Qia, 08 March 2014 - 08:46 PM.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Also, I don't believe that it's complex because I'm trying to prove that she has feelings for Naruto. I believe it's complex because we haven't been given an answer on whether she was telling the truth or not. The confession being fake is an interpretation not a fact (and I know it's also the other way around if you believe she was honest). Her confession is complex because it brings up too many questions. Was she telling the truth? Was she lying? If she was lying, then why didn't we see her apologizing to Naruto? I mean, she would have used his feelings for her after all.

The answer is given when she's going to kill Sasuke, and even a bit before.
She loved him and she knew she wasnt capable of killing him but wanted to do it because she felt guilty of forcing her selfish desire into Naruto (POAL).

 

What was Kakashi going to say as she was speaking during her confession ("Sakura...you..."  You what?). Why was Sakura blushing? (if it was manipulation and for the sake of keeping Naruto safe, then she shouldn't have felt embarrassed right?). Why was she THAT offended after her confession about Naruto questioning why she would come all this way just to tell him that? ("you think it's easy for a girl to confess her feelings?") Or is it that Sakura's just that good at manipulation and acting?

Kakashi's quote can mean anything, and the blushing is because she was embarrassed into that situation she wasnt alone with Naruto there was a lot of people there.
 

Again, her using Naruto's feelings? An interpretation. If her confession was fake, then she really was using Naruto's feelings and there's no way around that, even if you say Kishi was trying to defend her with those words (which we really don't know what he had in mind when he said that).

THe problem is that the opposite fandom and even Sakura's VA on which made kishi took up the microphone interpreted that she was doing that for her own sake, that she was being selfish once again and deceitfull if you look at Sakura's VA quote, you'll get the answer she said that she was being harsh with Naruto and was using his feelings for her own benefit.
Sakura used Naruto's feelings but not with evil intentions or wanting to be manipulative, it was with the same reason why she hid the fact he hit her during the 4 tails bridge.
She was doing it for Naruto's sake and for his safety in a way to redeem her own mistakes, she knew there that Sasuke would not come back and that he was a criminal that needed to die the only thing she wanted was to at least lessen Naruto's pain and make him happy if it fails she goes to the plan B which was the sacrifice, killing Sasuke and taking up the blame by herself in order to make Naruto hate her.

But that would be at the cost of her own feelings the answer i get on that moment is that despite all the things Naruto did to her she wasnt in love with him and it missed an important aspect which is acknowledgement from Naruto.
Which is the solely reason why there's no confrontation after that because if it had Kishi would have to make Naruto acknowledged Sakura's actions there and etc...

For me chapters like 540 and etc... only enforces the idea that she likes Sasuke however she doesnt want to be with him because he's not worth it, giving Naruto the active role on this pairing in order to keep it going in terms of development.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 08 March 2014 - 08:55 PM.

[BakeNeko-Chan]

Arent you doing the same?
How many people jumped on this thread to say that we cant label it as fake and trying to push saying she was honest.
If you dont agree just start with agree to disagree.
 
 

 

Oh please, don't give me that. I only gave my opinion on the confession and 540, I never claimed it was the absolute fact. I never made any claims that I'm right and any other interpretation is illogical -- which you did by the way. I never told you that you were wrong for having a different opinion, did I? If I did, prove it.

[sushi.]

I think it's a mistake, there's no midterm when it comes to being honest or lying, you cant say it's complex(which for me it's not complex) just to force the benefit of doubt about what she said there, you cant pick next chapters to prove what she said might be true or fake even if Sakura ends up with Naruto in the end it wont change that the confession was a lie because it was.
She loved Sasuke and her motivation and the reason she did that confession was explained all the times.
She wasnt doing the confession because she wanted to be with Naruto but because she wanted to keep him out of danger, it's explained thoughout the series that her role is to support Naruto and she wants to do her best for it.
She decided to do the confession for Naruto's sake not hers that's make her confession fake, because it wanst out of romantic love but rather to help her friend.

There is a discussion here about how complex it was, and let me rephrase my words. It is not that complex, and I don't find it hard to understand or confusing. But Sakura shows so many different feelings, some of what she said might be a lie, and some might be true. So dragging everything she said under one word is just simplifying it.

 

IMO, the confession was neither fake, nor real.