30 replies to this topic

[tricksie]

We'll have to agree to disagree on this, too. The way I look at it, anything that's between the title cover and the first word of the story is standing between the reader and the story content -- regardless of whether it's on the same page or not. In a printed book you still have to page through material you may not be interested in to get to the story. The electronic equivalent is an author note before the chapter begins because there is no other place to put it (except the summary, which is inappropriate), and even if you place notes at the end, it's still between the reader and the next chapter. My thinking is, if you can ignore notes at the end of a chapter, you can just as easily ignore them at the beginning. Just my opinion.

For what it's worth, I thought maybe I was on crack or something for thinking most readers I know don't mind notes at the beginning of fan fiction chapters -- it wouldn't be the first time I've been mistaken in my impressions, lol. So I pitched the question to the readers on my private blog earlier (which includes folks from the original fiction writers group I belong to), and so far all have said they're fine with notes at the beginning unless they're long. Then again, most of us are ex-Potter or Doctor Who people, so maybe we're a different stripe. Like I've said, readers and writers of the Naruto fandom seem to have very different tastes and expectations than what I'm used to, and I'm still trying to adjust.

Out of curiosity, have you written for other fandoms, tricksie?

You got me. No other fandoms. Only professionally.

Without going into detail, it has been my job for a lot longer than you've been writing fanfic to know what the reader wants, determine the visual heirarchy that will snag a user and keep h/her there, and organize the rest of the content accordingly. For newspapers, books and websites. I've happily shifted gears in my life, but the work ethic clearly remains, even in my personal projects like fanfic! lol!

Like I said, it may sound like I'm being overly concerned...but when you know you only have one chance to catch that reader, why bog it down with pithy or flat out silly author's notes that skew your reader's judgement of your work before the first word? In noveling, so much emphasis is put on the first sentence, first sentence, first sentence. But with fanfic, in a serialized form, the "first sentence" happens again and again. You are just as likely to gain new readers as you are to loose them with each update.

Each update, new readers make snap decision about whether to read a story that has a certain amount of reviews/words to their liking. They make decisions to read based on an author's commitment level to the story.

And each update, old readers make the decision to stick with the story based on how caught they are by that new "first sentence." Be it chapter 5 or 25. Is it still worth reading? Are they turned off by the direction it's going? How many times have you read an author's note at the beginning of a chapter to see things like "I've got a poll up," or "I've decided to do a time skip," or that dreaded (or beloved) word, "harem." Boom. Right there. You're done. No more reading. It doesn't matter if it's the best chapter you'll read out of any fanfic ever. You've already made your snap decision without dipping into the content at all.

Young writers don't realize what a disservice they do themselves by slapping author's notes at the beginning of the story. Depending on the whims of the readers, the story itself may never get a chance.

I'm not trying to be argumentative. It is only one of many factors that go into a finished work, and is a fairly unique problem to ff.net. But if you've worked so hard at writing something original, something that people want to read, why chance it by putting in something at the beginning that might turn them off?

[KnS]

You got me. No other fandoms. Only professionally.

Without going into detail, it has been my job for a lot longer than you've been writing fanfic to know what the reader wants, determine the visual heirarchy that will snag a user and keep h/her there, and organize the rest of the content accordingly. For newspapers, books and websites.

My motivation for asking was a genuine interest in whether any other material had ever inspired you to write fan fiction. I certainly did not intend to appear as if I were questioning your authority over the subject matter or the superiority of your experience. I know I'm just an amateur kicking words around.

I'm not trying to be argumentative. It is only one of many factors that go into a finished work, and is a fairly unique problem to ff.net. But if you've worked so hard at writing something original, something that people want to read, why chance it by putting in something at the beginning that might turn them off?

Ironically, the results of my private blog poll revealed that the responders (there have been 18 so far) feel differently. One fellow summed up the general attitude about beginning author notes succinctly by saying, "I approve of warnings or classifications; some fan fiction content is outside my interests or personal comfort zone. If not clear from the summary, notes at the beginning that reflect the direction or potential quality of the content can save me wasting time and a poor investment." For whatever that's worth. Which is nothing, really. It's just interesting to me how differently people can view the same thing.

[tricksie]

My motivation for asking was a genuine interest in whether any other material had ever inspired you to write fan fiction. I certainly did not intend to appear as if I were questioning your authority over the subject matter or the superiority of your experience. I know I'm just an amateur kicking words around.

No worries about any of that. I just hate sounding like I have such strong opinions without backing it up with 'why.' Writing original fics is a whole new ballgame. I'm still plodding away at all my projects, fanfics included!

[Nefertieh]

I always read the author's profile and author's notes, just to be sure their story is worth my time. An author that has a lot of 'copy and paste if you agree' is really an alarm bell for a thirteen year old who has just learned to use the keyboard. I find it interesting to see an author who has a little blurb about each of their stories on their profile, and their thoughts on their story. They don't have to introduce themselves, but I think reviewers are more motivated to review if they feel like they know the author a bit. It's kind of like how celebrities give out interviews regarding their personal lives when they promote their new movies.

The author's notes that work the best are usually short ones that talk about the author's feelings towards the chapter. What themes did you want to explore? Why? I absolutely hate it when the author has a title indicating which character's "point of view" the chapter is told from. It is incredibly distracting and condesending.

For fanfics in general, I think a lot of authors put most of their focus in the first few lines of each chapter, only to leave the ending completely uninteresting. The stories that really stand out are the ones that have a very powerful ending in each chapter, to make that chapter feel complete. It doesn't have to be a cliff hanger, it can be a hook ending, an answer to a question near the beginning, or a new revelation.

Answering to each review in the author's notes is technically against the rules on ff.net, which is why the website introduced the messaging system.

I don't really care about age or gender if something is written well, though I have found that females tend to write emotional scenes better, while males tend to lean a little heavily on action sequences. As for me, well... I just like to tell a good story.

I have noticed that as well. However, it can be a bit of a problem when the female authors focus too much on emotional scenes that the story seems to have no other plot. Vice versa for male authors -- too much focus on how demi-god their main character is, while the girl will fall in love with him without even talking to him.

Edited by Nefertieh, 02 September 2012 - 04:54 AM.

[Dalton.T.R]

Man you guys are crazy about the whole fanfics thing. Not that I'm not guilty about reading them, but doesn't it get kind of old after a while? Sure I wrote my fanfic as well, but I got the idea... Why take the work of someone else and completely change their story and post it on the internet whenever I can creat my own book seriese? I'm not meaning to bash or anything, but it just got old reading "NaruSaku, NaruSaku, NaruSaku, NaruSaku or whoever else you support over and over again. Now what if you wrote your own book and people started writing fanfics over that? IMO, that'd be a pretty damn good feeling if I do say so myself. If you have the immagination for a fanfic, why not write your own book?

Again, not trying to be rude if you thought I was.

[KnS]

I always read the author's profile and author's notes, just to be sure their story is worth my time. An author that has a lot of 'copy and paste if you agree' is really an alarm bell for a thirteen year old who has just learned to use the keyboard.

This is basically the same answer I got from my unofficial blog poll, only they were speaking mostly of author notes.

For fanfics in general, I think a lot of authors put most of their focus in the first few lines of each chapter, only to leave the ending completely uninteresting. The stories that really stand out are the ones that have a very powerful ending in each chapter, to make that chapter feel complete. It doesn't have to be a cliff hanger, it can be a hook ending, an answer to a question near the beginning, or a new revelation.

I agree. The first few lines are important, but they don't do you much good if the author then slides into a lifeless middle and ending -- whether the lifelessness is caused by meandering, no plot, contrivance, cliché, or mind-numbingly purple prose. And I love the sort of chapter endings you describe there -- the kind that tie in something from the beginning.

Man you guys are crazy about the whole fanfics thing. Not that I'm not guilty about reading them, but doesn't it get kind of old after a while? Sure I wrote my fanfic as well, but I got the idea... Why take the work of someone else and completely change their story and post it on the internet whenever I can creat my own book seriese? I'm not meaning to bash or anything, but it just got old reading "NaruSaku, NaruSaku, NaruSaku, NaruSaku or whoever else you support over and over again. Now what if you wrote your own book and people started writing fanfics over that? IMO, that'd be a pretty damn good feeling if I do say so myself. If you have the immagination for a fanfic, why not write your own book?

Again, not trying to be rude if you thought I was.

No, I don't think it's a rude question at all. Very logical and practical, actually.

My personal answer? I am working on original material. I have two novels (vastly different in tone and content) and one short story in development. One of my close friends is an editor for a book publisher, and she reads what I get completed on my original work (very useful to submit to this process -- painful sometimes, but useful), otherwise I don't talk about it. ;)

World building is a very different challenge. It takes time, careful thought, preparation -- in other words, more than writing skills. It's hard work, and I already have a demanding, stressful day job as well as some fairly significant health issues that slow me way, way down. I use fan fiction as a means to exercise the writing muscle, so to speak, so I don't get completely out of shape while I'm thinking and world building, writing original character bios, and working on the prose itself.

Like you said, fan fiction is a lot easier and anyone can do it. But it's still fun for me, and I don't take it or myself seriously. I did give it up for a while, when my health problems were at their worst, but a couple of friends who were into Naruto dared me to write for it so I decided to try. Somehow I'm eight stories deep already.

But then, I always have more ideas than I have time or energy.

[Konohakitten]

Man you guys are crazy about the whole fanfics thing. Not that I'm not guilty about reading them, but doesn't it get kind of old after a while? Sure I wrote my fanfic as well, but I got the idea... Why take the work of someone else and completely change their story and post it on the internet whenever I can creat my own book seriese? I'm not meaning to bash or anything, but it just got old reading "NaruSaku, NaruSaku, NaruSaku, NaruSaku or whoever else you support over and over again. Now what if you wrote your own book and people started writing fanfics over that? IMO, that'd be a pretty damn good feeling if I do say so myself. If you have the immagination for a fanfic, why not write your own book?

Again, not trying to be rude if you thought I was.

I agree with some of KnS's reasons for writing fanfictions. Just like KnS I do also have my own story that's in the works but I dont share it with anyone except my husband and that's it. It's still in its infant stages so there is no real reason to share it with anyone. Anyhow writing fanfictions is just for fun, I don't take it as serioursly as some other ppl do. For me writing helps me relax and clear my mind. I can be super critical with my story, so much to where it isnt fun working on it. In those instances I go to my fanfic story. Basically I write fanfics to help me relax while still keeping my writing skills up to date. As a mother of two I really need some time to myself and writing is the perfect way to escape for a little. I know fanfiction is something anyone can do but it's my perfect way to unwind at the end of the day.

Edited by Konohakitten, 03 September 2012 - 01:51 AM.

[Dalton.T.R]

No, I don't think it's a rude question at all. Very logical and practical, actually.

My personal answer? I am working on original material. I have two novels (vastly different in tone and content) and one short story in development. One of my close friends is an editor for a book publisher, and she reads what I get completed on my original work (very useful to submit to this process -- painful sometimes, but useful), otherwise I don't talk about it.

World building is a very different challenge. It takes time, careful thought, preparation -- in other words, more than writing skills. It's hard work, and I already have a demanding, stressful day job as well as some fairly significant health issues that slow me way, way down. I use fan fiction as a means to exercise the writing muscle, so to speak, so I don't get completely out of shape while I'm thinking and world building, writing original character bios, and working on the prose itself.

Like you said, fan fiction is a lot easier and anyone can do it. But it's still fun for me, and I don't take it or myself seriously. I did give it up for a while, when my health problems were at their worst, but a couple of friends who were into Naruto dared me to write for it so I decided to try. Somehow I'm eight stories deep already.

But then, I always have more ideas than I have time or energy.

Oh I gotcha now! You use fanfics to... "prepare" or plan out your actual story in a way. I gotcha. Yeah, I know what you mean about the stresfull job and stuff... for some reason I can't spell today... Anyways, I've got my own seriese planned out as well. The main point doesn't start till later, and the part I really want to write at that. Basically I've gone all out with this. My own language, animal speciese, military vehicle design, and just drawing scetch by scetch of my own land. And like you said, job, health and personal issues kind of get in the way.

Since you seem to know how to get ahold of an actual publisher, can you give me a link to a website sometime? The last thing I wanna do is self-publish my work and for obvious reasons lol. Can't spell for crap today.

[KnS]

I know fanfiction is something anyone can do but it's my perfect way to unwind at the end of the day.

I hope the way I phrased that -- "fan fiction is a lot easier and anyone can do it" -- didn't come across as condescending. I sure didn't mean it that way at all. I just meant that it's open to everyone to try, and it's easier since writers don't have to do all the heavy lifting because it's based on someone else's world.

With two children I can imagine you need some "me time" and a creative outlet. Wow.

You use fanfics to... "prepare" or plan out your actual story in a way.

I just use them to keep writing something, otherwise I get rusty and then my original work suffers.

Since you seem to know how to get ahold of an actual publisher, can you give me a link to a website sometime? The last thing I wanna do is self-publish my work and for obvious reasons lol. Can't spell for crap today.

Well, just because my friend is an editor doesn't mean much. She can help me become a better writer on the side, but she can't pull any strings for me. And honestly I've never asked her. But she does find out about open manuscript calls by different publishers and stuff like that, so I can see what I can find out and let you know.

Edited by KnS, 03 September 2012 - 02:21 AM.

[Nefertieh]

A fanfiction is very different from a novel, and in many ways it is better than a published work. Think of fanfiction as a new type of literature. Your audience is far more critical about your characterization, your plot and you get feedback on potentially every detail you make.

[Nick Soapdish]

I usually skip over author's notes and jump right into the story. I might come back to them afterwards, especially if something about the story piques my curiosity. But recently, I actually scrolled down to the end of the story to read the author's note before reading the story, mainly because the story had been on hiatus for a couple years and I was curious about its rebirth. After a story, I'll check out the author profile as well.

It somewhat related, but I often don't like prologues in novels either. This is going to sound very opinionated of me (because it is ) especially coming from somebody who hasn't taken an English course since high school, but I'm not sure if authors (you know, who do this professionally and all) always think about the purpose behind the prologue. Fantasy authors often seem to be sticking it in to introduce the ancient history behind the story and make it "epic". But the information can often be introduced later in the story and more gradually. Plus, the language is often stilted - as though from a history textbook instead of "real". So the dialogue isn't natural and the events lose drama. So it mainly serves to slow the entry into the story. Prologues that start with an action scene tend to work better IMO, but the examples that come to mind are from movies - which I guess is somewhat similar.