55 replies to this topic

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Honestly, I think the biggest reason why she's so hated and Hinata's so loved is because of how Sakura is in part one. They hate her, and since Hinata is pretty opposite of her, they root for her full on. And once they see that, their opinion of her is scarred forever and when she changes, they hide behind reasons that they themselves don't really agree with because PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO SEE THAT SHE HAS CHANGED.

A lot of the time when you dislike someone, you don't want to see them get better, you want to see them get worse, no matter what comes out of your mouth. "Ohhhhhh, I wouldn't hate her if so and so and so." Screw that, you would still hate her. Why do I feel this way? Because I've seen so many people admit it. One even admits it and than proves it with many of the posts, and then says something along the lines, "Right on with the Sakura hate. Boo Sakura, go Hinata."

Goodness, all the time, I think, "Man, Sakura wouldn't have so many haters if it weren't for part one. Yet it's the reason why I like her so much." Granted, I liked her in part one too.

Was she really all that bad anyway? One girl says, "Man, she's horrible, I don't remember being that bad to anyone except my mother." Yes, because treating your mother badly is more respectable than treating a friend like that.

That's how I feel about people hating Sakura about part one, and even after all that, I still feel it's a legit reason...

TLDR: There are legitimate reasons for hating Sakura, just as there are legitimate reasons for loving her.

I really dont like her in part one for the way she treated naruto she was like sasuke's parrot and i didnt liked hinata because she didnt recognize naruto's strength she always think that he will lose, the proof is she think that he would lose to neji and falls to the ground to no watch the fight.

No, you were attracted to her since the first day you met her. You came to love her the more you got to know her and the more time you spent with her. That first step is not love. It is attraction, infatuation, fascination. And that is what Sakura had for Sasuke. There was no condition for her "love" other than his looks and his coll factor. Love and infatuation are not the same thing. Just like a crush and a commitment are not the same thing.

i thought u were talking about naruto's love towards sakura, because i thought u say that naruto's love towards sakura was infatuation wich i disagree, but i agree with you that sakura's love towards sasuke is a crush that she thinks it's love was because of this factor and the rivalry with Ino.

but it's better that way if narusaku would became canon we would see a development between then, but i cant blame her because kushina treated minato the same way yes she thought he was a coward.

Edited by Smiter, 30 July 2012 - 07:46 PM.

[PachucoDesigns]

i thought u were talking about naruto's love towards sakura.

No, I am talking about Sakura's love for Sasuke. And I am talking about what started Naruto's love for Sakura. He developed real love for her. Sakura is growing away from Sasuke and toward Naruto because she now sees the difference.

[Traci]

Oh, that's what you think, is it? Trust me, I have. And I can tell you two things right now: there is no such things as love at first sight, that is called infatuation. And there is no such thing as unconditional love, it is a ridiculous concept.

By rain or shine, I meant within reason. Not if the person tries to hurt you. Granted, you weren't talking to me lol, so ignore.

Yeah, but then that doesn't really honor the difference between infatuation and love. And there is a difference.

I can agree about the difference between infatuation and love, since you can't really love someone you don't know, but I'm not sure about what you're trying to say.

I really dont like her in part one for the way she treated naruto she was like sasuke's parrot and i didnt liked hinata because she didnt recognize naruto's strength she always think that he will lose, the proof is she think that he would lose to neji and falls to the ground to no watch the fight.

I understand if you hate Sakura for part one even though I didn't think she was all that bad. What I don't understand is why people KEEP hating her. (Well actually I do understand. It's because of first impressions like Pacheco said and it irritates me so, even though I do it too ), I know there are people who have a very bad grudge on her for that, and a lot of people won't admit it because that would give the impression that Sakura doesn't deserve all their hate, and they don't want that. And then there are also people who don't realize and then there are people who would hate her even without part one.

Edited by Traci, 30 July 2012 - 01:23 PM.

[PachucoDesigns]

By rain or shine, I meant within reason. Not if the person tries to hurt you. Granted, you weren't talking to me lol, so ignore.



I can agree about the difference between infatuation and love, since you can't really love someone you don't know, but I'm not sure about what you're trying to say.

What I'm trying to say is this: infatuation is easy. All it really takes is a personal taste for qualities of physical attraction and the natural human tendency to cherry pick the charming points of a person and piece them together into a fantasy. You like how you think they act, and you love how they look. Love doesn't happen until you are exposed to all of the truths of this person. Their ups, their downs, their goods, their bads, their likes, their dislikes, their morality, their flaws, their shining points. And once you notice all of them rather than ignoring them, and can still say that they complete you after weighing the pros and cons, then you have found love. One is a trivial first step to a much larger outcome. Sakura had no reason for loving Sasuke, and she ignored his faults in favor of the fantasy. She came to love Naruto because through all of the faults she saw in him first, she was forced to see his charm and strength of character shine through.

[Traci]

What I'm trying to say is this: infatuation is easy. All it really takes is a personal taste for qualities of physical attraction and the natural human tendency to cherry pick the charming points of a person and piece them together into a fantasy. You like how you think they act, and you love how they look. Love doesn't happen until you are exposed to all of the truths of this person. Their ups, their downs, their goods, their bads, their likes, their dislikes, their morality, their flaws, their shining points. And once you notice all of them rather than ignoring them, and can still say that they complete you after weighing the pros and cons, then you have found love. One is a trivial first step to a much larger outcome. Sakura had no reason for loving Sasuke, and she ignored his faults in favor of the fantasy. She came to love Naruto because through all of the faults she saw in him first, she was forced to see his charm and strength of character shine through.

Thanks for explaining. Is this why the divorce rate in America is like 40% to 50% or something? God, if that's true, that statistic makes me scared about marrying...

[PachucoDesigns]

Thanks for explaining. Is this why the divorce rate in America is like 40% to 50% or something? God, if that's true, that statistic makes me scared about marrying...

Yeah, I would say that's exactly why it's so high. Because many people don't bother to look into these things before they tie the knot, and then they learn they made a horrible mistake later down the line.

[tricksie]

Yes, traci, there is a biiiiig double standard in Naruto as far as acceptance of one character's behavior and abhorrence of another's same actions/feelings.

However, I don't just blame the reader. The plot is set up so that Naruto can do no wrong. He is the hero, and we are primed to be sympathetic toward him and easily forgive him any flaws. And that some readers want to apply that simplified view toward NH. We should be sympathetic and just handwave any flaws because she is such a sweet, one-sided character.

Sakura is not. She has undergone a change in the course of the manga. Her character has developed. She steps out of the character fairy tale that Hinata is in and now becomes realistic. Where people get dumped, their honest love scorned, and they have to move on. But some readers still want that fairy tale. And they blame Sakura for being too complicated.

It's a shame we don't have a steady bread-crumb trail from the beginning on WHY Naruto likes Sakura, and how that has built/changed. (It would have been good for us, but not good for all the other ships, so I can understand why it's not.) Naruto just pops onto the seen in Page One, already having established that at some point in the dark expanse of Naruto-verse history before Page One, he began liking Sakura. So we don't get to see him develop from that angle.

Naruto retains those fairytale traits in his character, but he goes after the "realistic" girl. For people wanting to read this as a fairytale (NH, SS), that's very unappealing. Same thing for SS - for that relationship to work, Sakura can't evolve. She can't have character development. She has to pine away for Sasuke until he returns, where she is rewarded for her long-suffering by his finally realizing he loved her all along (or one of the many variations on that theme).

Oh, that's what you think, is it? Trust me, I have. And I can tell you two things right now: there is no such things as love at first sight, that is called infatuation. And there is no such thing as unconditional love, it is a ridiculous concept.

Let me enlighten you on these two things. Love at first sight? Have a child. There are many facets of love, not just romantic. Your opinion on unconditional love? Not interested. Please stay on topic. Traci asked a valid question, and the thread doesn't need to be closed because it's been hijacked into a personal opinion forum.

Edited by tricksie, 30 July 2012 - 02:03 PM.

[Traci]

Yeah, I would say that's exactly why it's so high. Because many people don't bother to look into these things before they tie the knot, and then they learn they made a horrible mistake later down the line.

I also think it might be because people just can. People don't look at you badly because you're divorced because it's so common. There's the fact that people generally don't have to worry about finances when they get divorced because of child support and stuff. But yes, I think people getting married six months into a relationship or while they're still in the infatuation stage is the root of the problem. I feel like if people didn't marry so early, then divorce wouldn't be such a problem. Gotta wait until the newness of the relationship wears off and you see things for what they are.

* Goodness, I gotta stop being impatient and editing my posts lol.

Edited by Traci, 30 July 2012 - 02:22 PM.

[PachucoDesigns]

Let me enlighten you on these two things. Love at first sight? Have a child. There are many facets of love, not just romantic. Your opinion on unconditional love? Not interested. Please stay on topic. Traci asked a valid question, and the thread doesn't need to be closed because it's been hijacked into a personal opinion forum.

You know full well that I meant romantic love, don't be obtuse. And for the record, if you chose to have that child, you loved it before it was even born. I would say that sight wouldn't have much to do with that matter at that point, wouldn't you? You don't have to know that child, because there is nothing yet to know other than you will care for it and raise it to do well in this world. And as for your lack of interest in my "opinion" on unconditional love? Don't care. It is still relevant to the topic. It is why Sakura's love for Sasuke was not love at all, and why her growing love for Naruto is the real deal.

[Traci]

Yes, traci, there is a biiiiig double standard in Naruto as far as acceptance of one character's behavior and abhorrence of another's same actions/feelings.

However, I don't just blame the reader. The plot is set up so that Naruto can do no wrong. He is the hero, and we are primed to be sympathetic toward him and easily forgive him any flaws. And that some readers want to apply that simplified view toward NH. We should be sympathetic and just handwave any flaws because she is such a sweet, one-sided character.

Sakura is not. She has undergone a change in the course of the manga. Her character has developed. She steps out of the character fairy tale that Hinata is in and now becomes realistic. Where people get dumped, their honest love scorned, and they have to move on. But some readers still want that fairy tale. And they blame Sakura for being too complicated.

It's a shame we don't have a steady bread-crumb trail from the beginning on WHY Naruto likes Sakura, and how that has built/changed. (It would have been good for us, but not good for all the other ships, so I can understand why it's not.) Naruto just pops onto the seen in Page One, already having established that at some point in the dark expanse of Naruto-verse history before Page One, he began liking Sakura. So we don't get to see him develop from that angle.

Naruto retains those fairytale traits in his character, but he goes after the "realistic" girl. For people wanting to read this as a fairytale (NH, SS), that's very unappealing. Same thing for SS - for that relationship to work, Sakura can't evolve. She can't have character development. She has to pine away for Sasuke until he returns, where she is rewarded for her long-suffering by his finally realizing he loved her all along (or one of the many variations on that theme).


Let me enlighten you on these two things. Love at first sight? Have a child. There are many facets of love, not just romantic. Your opinion on unconditional love? Not interested. Please stay on topic. Traci asked a valid question, and the thread doesn't need to be closed because it's been hijacked into a personal opinion forum.

I agree with you for the most part. Especially the part about "Sakura can't evolve." I feel Kishimoto is keeping Sakura in love with Sasuke to keep the ship alive (Granted I could say the same thing about all the Big 3 in Naruto). He has to keep the pairing drama up.

But when Pacheco was talking about love at first sight, I think he was just talking about romance... Yeah, we were being a little off topic, sorry about that... I like hearing other people's views? ^.^'

[shadow_Uzumaki]

Most importantly, there are a lot of rabid fans out there who are still stuck with Part 1 Sakura pre-Chuunin Exam characterization. Like someone mentioned, Sakura's character development is one of the most fantastic in the series, and quite a bit still ignore that.


Still, she's quite a 'satellite character,' her character revolves around Sasuke and Naruto, still can't quite stand on her own at times, especially when romance is concerned.

[Traci]

Most importantly, there are a lot of rabid fans out there who are still stuck with Part 1 Sakura pre-Chuunin Exam characterization. Like someone mentioned, Sakura's character development is one of the most fantastic in the series, and quite a bit still ignore that.


Still, she's quite a 'satellite character,' her character revolves around Sasuke and Naruto, still can't quite stand on her own at times, especially when romance is concerned.

I can agree, but I don't blame her for this. Just like I don't blame Hinata for being a satellite character either. I'm sure that both characters lives don't actually revolve around Sasuke and/or Naruto, it just seems that way because it's all Kishimoto unfortunately cares to show (or has enough time to show). But if people hate Sakura for being a satellite character, fine, but I hope there is no double standards about it.

You know what really bugs me? Kishimoto creating so many new characters when he could just flesh out the ones he already has? I was hoping for tons of Konoha 11 growth in Shippuden and I was really disappointed. Really wanted to see all of them having more significance in the manga instead of it just being all Naruto, Sasuke, Itachi, Madara, Kabuto, and Tobi.

[tricksie]

You know full well that I meant romantic love, don't be obtuse. And for the record, if you chose to have that child, you loved it before it was even born. I would say that sight wouldn't have much to do with that matter at that point, wouldn't you? You don't have to know that child, because there is nothing yet to know other than you will care for it and raise it to do well in this world. And as for your lack of interest in my "opinion" on unconditional love? Don't care. It is still relevant to the topic. It is why Sakura's love for Sasuke was not love at all, and why her growing love for Naruto is the real deal.

You clearly don't know what you're talking about. Please keep your posts focused on the topic. Or don't post. Either one. Otherwise I'm sure that this thread will be closed like the others where posters were unable to keep harsh opinions out of the debate.

Edited by tricksie, 30 July 2012 - 03:23 PM.

[Orenji]

You know full well that I meant romantic love, don't be obtuse. And for the record, if you chose to have that child, you loved it before it was even born. I would say that sight wouldn't have much to do with that matter at that point, wouldn't you? You don't have to know that child, because there is nothing yet to know other than you will care for it and raise it to do well in this world. And as for your lack of interest in my "opinion" on unconditional love? Don't care. It is still relevant to the topic. It is why Sakura's love for Sasuke was not love at all, and why her growing love for Naruto is the real deal.

Well if we're going to get technical, in most cases for the father of the child, it is love at first sight. Just saying..

And while our opinions on unconditional romantic love differs, I just want to say why I do believe that it exists. It may fade, as we can all probably agree that some love just does not last forever. I hate when people say "Oh, you must not have really loved him/her" when someone breaks up or gets a divorce. The love two people shared at one point could have been the most real, but like stated before, sometimes it just doesn't last forever. Some of us just get lucky and do find that someone who is able to keep our love for them so strong throughout all the years. And when you are willing to do anything for that special someone, that is romantic unconditional love, which is what I believe Naruto has for Sakura. It takes a while to get to that point of unconditional love, but to me that point can definitely be reached.

I agree on love at first sight as well. I don't believe in it for the same reasons PachucoDesigns stated. But it is a cute and lovely thought though (:

I've had arguments with other members about Sakura's love for Sasuke before, and all of them always said that her love is shallow so it's not real. It does not matter what her love is like or what it is based off of. It could have been based off of Sasuke's nose hairs, but it would still be real to her. Of course we can all see that what most would believe to be real "love" is happening between Naruto and Sakura, which sounds nice but if that were all that there was to it, why wouldn't they be humping like rabbits?

But yeah, I agree with whoever said it, the double standard comes from the fact that Sakura was not a very likeable character in the beginning, and a lot of Hinata fangirls/boys (which tends to be A LOT) were mad at Sakura for taking Naruto's attention away from such a sweet person as Hinata. But Sakura's love for Sasuke and Hinata's love for Naruto are essentially the same.. Not too much based off of anything. But that does not make either of their feelings not real. The main comic point of this triangle was Hinata --> Naruto --> Sakura --> Sasuke.

[Darth Krypt]

Tricksie, I think you're making things worse. You know what will prevent this thread from closing? All of us just drop the argument and keep on topic. That goes for Pachuco to. Seriously no one should reply about this after my post. If you still want to, then obviously you're asking for it to be closed. No more.


Back to topic.

Honestly, I really hated Sakura during part 1. You could say I was a Sakura hater. I disliked how she treated Naruto and always fangirling over Sasuke when he doesn't deserve it. This was made evident after Naruto saved her from Gaara and she quickly assumed Sasuke was the one who saved her after she woke up. But after part 2, like most of you guys said, she went through a lot of development which did start in part 1 but more noticeable after the timeskip. Now I'm an NaruSaku fan. It shows how much change in character she went through that caused me to change my opinion on her drastically. People who still hate Sakura fail to see this. Either they are to proud to change their opinion or they aren't smart enough to pick up on the character development.

Haters gonna hate so a double-standard from them is inevitable.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Tricksie, I think you're making things worse. You know what will prevent this thread from closing? All of us just drop the argument and keep on topic. That goes for Pachuco to. Seriously no one should reply about this after my post. If you still want to, then obviously you're asking for it to be closed. No more.


Back to topic.

Honestly, I really hated Sakura during part 1. You could say I was a Sakura hater. I disliked how she treated Naruto and always fangirling over Sasuke when he doesn't deserve it. This was made evident after Naruto saved her from Gaara and she quickly assumed Sasuke was the one who saved her after she woke up. But after part 2, like most of you guys said, she went through a lot of development which did start in part 1 but more noticeable after the timeskip. Now I'm an NaruSaku fan. It shows how much change in character she went through that caused me to change my opinion on her drastically. People who still hate Sakura fail to see this. Either they are to proud to change their opinion or they aren't smart enough to pick up on the character development.

Haters gonna hate so a double-standard from them is inevitable.

Feels embraced so much true.

i hated sakura on part 1 and i didnt liked hinata i thought it would appear a third girl someome from the same clan as naruto or some village that he belonged.

Edited by dovahkiin, 30 July 2012 - 03:49 PM.

[Traci]

Eh. Maybe the reason I loved Sakura in part one because I was like 9 or 10 years old when I first got introduced to Naruto. Then again, out of all the books I've read and the anime and shows I've watched, I have never outright hated a character lol. Maybe I disliked a character, but none actually comes to mind. Am I really really tolerant of horrible characters or something? I have hated characters as a person but not as characters. What I mean by that is, if that character was in real life, I would hate them, because I hate murderers. But I don't actually hate the character.

Light Yagami, nope. Bella Swan, nope. Not even Scrappy Doo, lol.... Not characters but real life people, but I don't hate Justin Beiber or Rebecca Black either. All they've taught me is that people can hate you for ridiculous reasons.

Anyway, I do hate (well not loathe with a passion of course. dislike is probably a better word) books, movies, and anime, but never the actual characters. Weird, huh. Meh. Maybe I never get too emotionally invested into fiction, so that's why. Maybe I haven't been exposed to enough things.

Edited by Traci, 30 July 2012 - 04:19 PM.

[PachucoDesigns]

Well if we're going to get technical, in most cases for the father of the child, it is love at first sight. Just saying..

And while our opinions on unconditional romantic love differs, I just want to say why I do believe that it exists. It may fade, as we can all probably agree that some love just does not last forever. I hate when people say "Oh, you must not have really loved him/her" when someone breaks up or gets a divorce. The love two people shared at one point could have been the most real, but like stated before, sometimes it just doesn't last forever. Some of us just get lucky and do find that someone who is able to keep our love for them so strong throughout all the years. And when you are willing to do anything for that special someone, that is romantic unconditional love, which is what I believe Naruto has for Sakura. It takes a while to get to that point of unconditional love, but to me that point can definitely be reached.

I agree on love at first sight as well. I don't believe in it for the same reasons PachucoDesigns stated. But it is a cute and lovely thought though (:

I've had arguments with other members about Sakura's love for Sasuke before, and all of them always said that her love is shallow so it's not real. It does not matter what her love is like or what it is based off of. It could have been based off of Sasuke's nose hairs, but it would still be real to her. Of course we can all see that what most would believe to be real "love" is happening between Naruto and Sakura, which sounds nice but if that were all that there was to it, why wouldn't they be humping like rabbits?

But yeah, I agree with whoever said it, the double standard comes from the fact that Sakura was not a very likeable character in the beginning, and a lot of Hinata fangirls/boys (which tends to be A LOT) were mad at Sakura for taking Naruto's attention away from such a sweet person as Hinata. But Sakura's love for Sasuke and Hinata's love for Naruto are essentially the same.. Not too much based off of anything. But that does not make either of their feelings not real. The main comic point of this triangle was Hinata --> Naruto --> Sakura --> Sasuke.

Well, I wouldn't say that. Because if he loved the mother enough to have a kid with her, or if he loved the idea of having a kid, then he probably felt love the same way the mother did before it was born.

No, look, I don't think you understand what I'm saying. What I'm saying has nothing to do with morality or cynicism. It's just that the statement itself doesn't make sense. There can be no such thing as love without a condition. If you love someone, yet not someone else, then there has to be a condition defining that separation. If you love your child, the fact that he/she is your child is the condition. If you love your wife, the years you spent with her companionship and the memories thereof are the conditions. If you love your dog, then the fact that he is your dog and that you believe he returns your love are conditions. If you love all dogs, then your sentimentality toward the idea of dogs as companions is a condition. That's all I'm saying.

Honestly, if we are supposed to remember that these are young teenagers, then I propose their emotions are confused by default for lack of experience. I won't hold any of their feelings against them for the simple fact that they are still in a developmental stage, and (I hope) it will all work itself out in the long run.

[Orenji]

Well, I wouldn't say that. Because if he loved the mother enough to have a kid with her, or if he loved the idea of having a kid, then he probably felt love the same way the mother did before it was born.

No, look, I don't think you understand what I'm saying. What I'm saying has nothing to do with morality or cynicism. It's just that the statement itself doesn't make sense. There can be no such thing as love without a condition. If you love someone, yet not someone else, then there has to be a condition defining that separation. If you love your child, the fact that he/she is your child is the condition. If you love your wife, the years you spent with her companionship and the memories thereof are the conditions. If you love your dog, then the fact that he is your dog and that you believe he returns your love are conditions. If you love all dogs, then your sentimentality toward the idea of dogs as companions is a condition. That's all I'm saying.

Honestly, if we are supposed to remember that these are young teenagers, then I propose their emotions are confused by default for lack of experience. I won't hold any of their feelings against them for the simple fact that they are still in a developmental stage, and (I hope) it will all work itself out in the long run.

Well, I am neither a mother of father so I really have no experience in the matter, only what I have seen through my friends or family.

Ahh, I see what you are saying now. I was just thinking of unconditional love in a different sense I guess. (:

Tricksie, I think you're making things worse. You know what will prevent this thread from closing? All of us just drop the argument and keep on topic. That goes for Pachuco to. Seriously no one should reply about this after my post. If you still want to, then obviously you're asking for it to be closed. No more.

There is nothing wrong with a little debate. If everyone can argue/debate in a civil manner, it shouldn't be a big deal. Don't turn it into something that its not.

[shadow_Uzumaki]

I can agree, but I don't blame her for this. Just like I don't blame Hinata for being a satellite character either. I'm sure that both characters lives don't actually revolve around Sasuke and/or Naruto, it just seems that way because it's all Kishimoto unfortunately cares to show (or has enough time to show). But if people hate Sakura for being a satellite character, fine, but I hope there is no double standards about it.

You know what really bugs me? Kishimoto creating so many new characters when he could just flesh out the ones he already has? I was hoping for tons of Konoha 11 growth in Shippuden and I was really disappointed. Really wanted to see all of them having more significance in the manga instead of it just being all Naruto, Sasuke, Itachi, Madara, Kabuto, and Tobi.

I don't hate the fact that Sakura's a satellite character, in fact, her interactions with Sasuke and Naruto do manage to shape her from fangirl to the confident, young woman we see. Now, if she could only make her mind up...Blah.

However, in some cases, I think that Hinata's stifled by Naruto and her shyness. The difference between the two is that, while Sakura does revolve around our Pro- and Deuteragonist (Naruto and Sasuke respectively), we see enough of her interacting with other separate characters enough that she's not always going on about Naruto and Sasuke.

In contrast, Hinata always seems to revolve around the fact that she must get stronger for her Naruto-kun or what have you. I kinda blame Kishi on this one for not resolving the Naruto-Hinata thing earlier. Like you mentioned, I'm sure her life doesn't totally revolve around Naruto, but it's the most common characterization that Kishi always uses, so she seems very static or flat....