44 replies to this topic

[CloudMountainJuror]

i hate it when the main character in the story dies. especially when its a long series like this.

and i hate unrequited love!!!! HATE IT!!!! >:U no pairings would make me so sad!!

all the wars...for nothing!! we must win this battle!

I don't mind the main character dying under certain circumstances.
Example:

Spoiler for Code Geass --Click here to view--

Lelouch's death, although sad, was mind-blowing and epic. It provided the best ending to any anime/manga series that I've seen/read yet, period.

[Fenris]

I don't mind the main character dying under certain circumstances.
Example:

Spoiler for Code Geass --Click here to view--

Lelouch's death, although sad, was mind-blowing and epic. It provided the best ending to any anime/manga series that I've seen/read yet, period.

id still be crushed if naruto died, i literally grew up with him D:
Plus he has to be hokage

[CloudMountainJuror]

id still be crushed if naruto died, i literally grew up with him D:
Plus he has to be hokage

Like I said, some things are more important than personal desires.

[merryGOflava]

I don't mind the main character dying under certain circumstances.
Example:

Spoiler for Code Geass --Click here to view--

Lelouch's death, although sad, was mind-blowing and epic. It provided the best ending to any anime/manga series that I've seen/read yet, period.

its not the same!!

naruto is the happy main character that never gives up!! and achieves his dreams!!

i have never saw code geass but lelouch seem like a emo dude. those can die cause they already seem like a tragic character... but the happy ones? NEVER!!

it breaks my heart!! remember when kamina died?? that shouldnt have been allowed darnit!!

Edited by merryGOflava, 05 December 2011 - 12:24 AM.

[Super Boom]

unrequited love? didn't kishi say something like that would happen?
is that good for ns or..

I thought he said the opposite, something like "...at least one of them will be requited in the end." But I'd say it's probably a better idea to just take that with a grain of salt anyway.

I don't mind the main character dying under certain circumstances.
Example:

Spoiler for Code Geass --Click here to view--

Lelouch's death, although sad, was mind-blowing and epic. It provided the best ending to any anime/manga series that I've seen/read yet, period.

Response to spoiler --Click here to view--

If he did die, sure, but I recall reading that the creator intentionally left Lelouch's fate ambiguous. I originally assumed he died in the end, but there's some LONG fan-theories regarding how, based on the rules the anime set up, Lelouch would have obtained immortality after killing his father. Supposedly CC's last words in the series were intended to be part of that ambiguity.I'm not sure what to make of it really, so I generally leave it up to individual interpretation.

Anyways, even though he was the main character, I don't think it's really valid to compare him to Naruto. Even though it wasn't originally a shounen (it was adapted into a manga after the anime), if you juxtapose them into the standard archetypes, Lelouch has a lot more in common with Sasuke. It's probably why I was rooting for Suzaku the whole series. I've never really cared for those condescending bishounen "ends justify the means"-type characters.

Edited by Boom...Winning, 05 December 2011 - 12:38 AM.

[CloudMountainJuror]

I thought he said the opposite, something like "...at least one of them will be requited in the end." But I'd say it's probably a better idea to just take that with a grain of salt.

Response to spoiler --Click here to view--

If he did die, sure, but I recall reading that the creator intentionally left Lelouch's fate ambiguous. I originally assumed he died in the end, but there's some LONG fan-theories regarding how, based on the rules the anime set up, Lelouch would have obtained immortality after killing his father. Supposedly CC's last words in the series were intended to be part of that ambiguity.I'm not sure what to make of it really, so I generally leave it up to individual interpretation.

Anyways, even though he was the main character, I don't think it's really valid to compare him to Naruto. Even though it wasn't originally a shounen (it was adapted into a manga after the anime), if you juxtapose them into the standard archetypes, Lelouch has a lot more in common with Sasuke. It's probably why I was rooting for Suzaku the whole series. I've never really cared for those condescending bishounen "ends justify the means"-type characters.

I guess I just prefer more realistic endings, then. I guess that makes me a lesser fan of shunen, considering everyone here seems to want a perfect happy ending.

[Phantom_999]

I don't mind the main character dying under certain circumstances.
Example:

Spoiler for Code Geass --Click here to view--

Lelouch's death, although sad, was mind-blowing and epic. It provided the best ending to any anime/manga series that I've seen/read yet, period.

GUESS you must HAVE the depressing, pessimistic, cynical stuff to be content, huh Zacra?

Like I said, some things are more important than personal desires.

Then that applies to you too then right? Just cause you want Naruto to be non sappy and predictable, which is a personal desire, doesn't mean everyone wants it. Sure I want it to be happy and that is personal want but that's generally because Shonen manga aren't usually dark and full of gloom and doom. Well except for Death Note and Mirai Nikki.

Edited by Phantom_999, 05 December 2011 - 12:41 AM.

[FoolishYoungling]

If pairings don't happen then Kishi may be killed.. not by me of course, but someone else.. probably from here.

@Fenris-chan: Lol... your not marrying Sakura! A cat fight shall determine this! Raise your arms and get ready!

[merryGOflava]

I guess I just prefer more realistic endings, then. I guess that makes me a lesser fan of shunen, considering everyone here seems to want a perfect happy ending.

realistic endings dont mean the main character must die. a realistic ending is something that makes sense.

[Super Boom]

I guess I just prefer more realistic endings, then. I guess that makes me a lesser fan of shunen, considering everyone here seems to want a perfect happy ending.

I wouldn't say all shounen stories are written that way, but I think it's safe to say most Dragonball-inspired ones are. Which is admittedly a lot.

Anyways, I admit that I tend to prefer happy endings when I read fantasy fiction, but if the author can write it well enough, I really don't have an issue with an ending like the Code Geass ending you described. But I don't see that as being very likely in Naruto. Not impossible, but it doesn't really strike me as Kishi's intention, considering his track record for almost killing off characters, only to bring them back immediately afterwards.

Edited by Boom...Winning, 05 December 2011 - 12:59 AM.

[CloudMountainJuror]

realistic endings dont mean the main character must die. a realistic ending is something that makes sense.

Which is my point: the end of the story can make perfect sense even if no pairings happen or if Naruto dies. It all depends on how it'll be handled.

GUESS you must HAVE the depressing, pessimistic, cynical stuff to be content, huh Zacra?

Then that applies to you too then right? Just cause you want Naruto to be non sappy and predictable, which is a personal desire, doesn't mean everyone wants it. Sure I want it to be happy and that is personal want but that's generally because Shonen manga aren't usually dark and full of gloom and doom. Well except for Death Note and Mirai Nikki.

No, I have to have stuff that just makes sense. For example, I really like FMAB, and that has pretty much a perfect, happy ending. I do prefer the original FMA, but that's besides the point here.

In addition, Lelouch's death...depressing? Pessimistic? It brought the world into an age of peace. It was only sad for those of us that grew to like Lelouch.

And that wasn't what I was referring to, Phantom. I meant that sometimes, people have to give up their dreams in order to do what is right. Naruto doesn't seem to have realized that yet completely (I hope he does). Also, being predictable = Naruto becoming Hokage in the end. That's predictable.

Look, I guess that my main point is that Kishi can do whatever he wants with his story as long as he handles it well. Please, Kishi, handle it well.

Edited by zacrathedemon5, 05 December 2011 - 01:18 AM.

[merryGOflava]

Which is my point: the end of the story can make perfect sense even if no pairings happen or if Naruto dies. It all depends on how it'll be handled.



No, I have to have stuff that just makes sense. For example, I really like FMAB, and that has pretty much a perfect, happy ending. I do prefer the original FMA, but that's besides the point here.

And that wasn't what I was referring to, Phantom. I meant that sometimes, people have to give up their dreams in order to do what is right. Naruto doesn't seem to have realized that yet completely (I hope he does). Also, being predictable = Naruto becoming Hokage in the end. That's predictable.

Look, I guess that my main point is that Kishi can do whatever he wants with his story as long as he handles it well. Please, Kishi, handle it well.

but....why should he? if becoming hokage wont hurt anyone why should he give it up?

[CloudMountainJuror]

but....why should he? if becoming hokage wont hurt anyone why should he give it up?

I'll specify, because I did come across in the wrong way:
He doesn't have to. I mean that if he had to make a choice between becoming Hokage, or doing what is more beneficial for everyone, that he would do the latter. That's what we haven't seen from him yet: sacrificing what he wants in order to do what's right.

We've seen a start of it with his speech to Sasuke, but we haven't seen him act on it yet.

[Fenris]

...I still think pairings / naruto will live in the end will happen....

[CloudMountainJuror]

...I still think pairings / naruto will live in the end will happen....

It probably will, but I hope that Kishi at least handles it well.

[Fenris]

It probably will, but I hope that Kishi at least handles it well.

There's been too much happening for pairings not to end in the manga, imo. Naruto and Sakura will become canon in the war, at least I see it that way, it wont be official girlfriend/boyfriend material, but it will be something that proves their love for each other, both sides.
Anyway, whether Naruto's death or not... I can see it as he'll be presumed dead for awhile but then be revived somehow, like in the OVA, how Sakura thought he was dead /Insert flashbacks and OVA music here/ Then he woke up in the end. /Insert huge, adorable, spoiler NS moments /

[sardns]

no pairings at all > NaruHina happening

[Phantom_999]

Which is my point: the end of the story can make perfect sense even if no pairings happen or if Naruto dies. It all depends on how it'll be handled.



No, I have to have stuff that just makes sense. For example, I really like FMAB, and that has pretty much a perfect, happy ending. I do prefer the original FMA, but that's besides the point here.

In addition, Lelouch's death...depressing? Pessimistic? It brought the world into an age of peace. It was only sad for those of us that grew to like Lelouch.

And that wasn't what I was referring to, Phantom. I meant that sometimes, people have to give up their dreams in order to do what is right. Naruto doesn't seem to have realized that yet completely (I hope he does). Also, being predictable = Naruto becoming Hokage in the end. That's predictable.

Look, I guess that my main point is that Kishi can do whatever he wants with his story as long as he handles it well. Please, Kishi, handle it well.

In other words reality right? But reality IS cynical, pessimistic, and depressing. Okay you want want an ending at least well thought out and planned, not like it was pulled out of the ass and over corny and random, right? I understand but, happy endings can't be realistic in a sense cause realism requires just as much negativity and S*** happening to the plot. For a complete happy ending you need to have logic defying nonsense or it ISN'T happy, cause someone will always be sulking in the dark otherwise. For instane, Code Geass' ending. It was realistic and in the bigger picture ideal and happy but on a personal level, was it sad and depressing? Of course, Lelouch died and it caused some sort of misery because the main character dying is usually taken as tragic, even if the greater good happened because of it. Now I COMPLETELY agree with self sacrifice and giving up dreams for the greater good. But you won't see that in shonen manga cause achieving your dream and staying alive IS doing the greater good. Cheesy and predictable, not to mention unrealistic, I know but hey Shonen is about hope, friendship, love, determination, achieving goals, etc. etc. not really on self sacrifice and "becoming a villain to be a hero", what can you do right? Over all I'm just saying that shonen manga are what they are so people feel happy and hopeful reading it while also feeling awe and inspired toom so I know what you're saying, just don't expect TOO much of that with shonen manga okay?

Edited by Phantom_999, 05 December 2011 - 03:03 AM.

[CloudMountainJuror]

In other words reality right? But reality IS cynical, pessimistic, and depressing. Okay you want want an ending at least well thought out and planned, not like it was pulled out of the ass and over corny and random, right? I understand but, happy endings can't be realistic in a sense cause realism requires just as much negativity and S*** happening to the plot. For a complete happy ending you need to have logic defying nonsense or it ISN'T happy, cause someone will always be sulking in the dark otherwise. For instane, Code Geass' ending. It was realistic and in the bigger picture ideal and happy but on a personal level, was it sad and depressing? Of course, Lelouch died and it caused some sort of misery because the main character dying is usually taken as tragic, even if the greater good happened because of it. Now I COMPLETELY agree with self sacrifice and giving up dreams for the greater good. But you won't see that in shonen manga cause achieving your dream and staying alive IS doing the greater good. Cheesy and predictable, not to mention unrealistic, I know but hey Shonen is about hope, friendship, love, determination, achieving goals, etc. etc. not really on self sacrifice and "becoming a villain to be a hero", what can you do right? Over all I'm just saying that shonen manga are what they are so people feel happy and hopeful reading it while also feeling awe and inspired toom so I know what you're saying, just don't expect TOO much of that with shonen manga okay?

That was probably the best argument/post you've replied to me with yet. Well done explaining that one, Phantom. I guess I just won't really enjoy a lot of shounens then, if they all are cheesey, predictable, and unrealistic like you said. I can see how they inspire and whatever, but I believe that a story can be inspirational without being all of the above. That's me, anyways.
Regardless, thank you for this post. It was well done, unlike some others, and I can fairly say that you've "won" this little discussion.

P.S. Maybe this also explains why Code Geass is my favorite anime/series so far... Because the other series I watch/read aren't meant to be necesarilly realistic.

[Nate River]

At some point, I might have cared if it ended no pairings, but if I did that has long since passed. I wouldn't care in the slightest. Most of it, is plain old apathy. I just don't care, so long as the ending is coherent. The rest is that I've come across more than a hand of die hard shippers that I hold in significant enough contempt that I'd smile a bit at watching the author giving a giant F-you to them all. So yeah, plain old spite.

If Naruto died, it would depend on the circumstances and what themes are conveyed in his death.

That said, I don't expect either.