102 replies to this topic

[kirabook]

Aw. Definitely made me AWWW a lot.

[Paptala]

It was interesting, for sure. This chapter confirmed Gaara's father is going to be redeemed, imo. It seems like the message Kishi is sending now is that nothing is as horrible/terrible as it initially appears to be. That there is goodness inside even the most horrible of memories.

I feel like Kishi is really pushing this "everyone understanding one another" thing.

With understanding comes peace of mind, if not forgiveness. The ability to move forward with ones life.

Which makes me feel that despite Shikaku's warning to Naruto not to talk to Madara, Naruto is going to come to understand Madara and his reasons for doing what he did, just like he did with Nagato. The goal he's striving for now is the day where everyone can come to understand one another after all.

Edited by Paptala, 13 July 2011 - 12:33 AM.

[Insurrection]

Not to raise a different issue so quickly but did anyone else see the bottom part of the final page?

Special Pre-Movie Release cover and color pages.

[Verilance]

On a side but somewhat related note Gaara was about the same size I was when I was born

[Gravenimage]

Not to raise a different issue so quickly but did anyone else see the bottom part of the final page?

Special Pre-Movie Release cover and color pages.

It's obvious that it's about the fifth movie (blood prison) that will premiere in Japan next week.

[shadow_Uzumaki]

Well, the difference between Madara and Gaara's father is that Madara's doing what he's doing for personal desires. Gaara's father did what he did for the sake of his village. Not to say that what his father did was right, but even Gaara himself said it, "But now, I do not hate you. I even understand what you're trying to do...," Gaara's father just went about it the wrong way and he admits it in the end, proclaiming he doesn't have an "eye for value." Well, unless he sucker-punches Gaara willingly after telling Gaara that his mother loved him. Remember, Ei had the same ideas too, that's why he intercepted Naruto and Bee.

[ciardha]

On a side but somewhat related note Gaara was about the same size I was when I was born

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Were you premature too?

I think it's great that a male manga writer has a strong emotional bond with his mother and feels free to express it through the mothers and sons in his manga in such a positive way. (Part of it is Japanese socialization- instead of the western way where guys are sneered at for even having a close positive bond with their mothers and called "mamas boys"- in Japan it's expected both sons and daughters will continue to have a close emotional bond with their moms throughout their lives.)

On top of that is Kishimoto told the story way back in part 1 how he thought of his mom as an awesome and heroic person when he was a boy- when she calmly rescued him when he fell into a pile of muck on a field trip and couldn't get himself out. Even his teacher just stood and stared at him, but his mom just calmly stepped into the muck and pulled him out, no scolding just straightforward action. (Bet she shot the teacher a nasty look though for being such a lame example for the kids of how an adult caretaker is supposed to react in that situation) Kishimoto said when his mom pulled him out of the muck he thought she was the most awesome and heroic person.

[tricksie]

On a side but somewhat related note Gaara was about the same size I was when I was born

Really? How big were you, and how early? If you don't mind me asking. Gaara is definitely a lil' peanut!

edit: also, I'm anxious to see how Temari and Kankuro fit into the family picture. Were they happy? Did they believe their dad, etc.

Edited by tricksie, 13 July 2011 - 01:41 AM.

[Verilance]

yes 3 months premature weighed 2 pounds 3 ounces.

now I am big at around 230lbs+ the joke is "once I was born I started eating and haven't stopped since"

[alexander]

Well, the difference between Madara and Gaara's father is that Madara's doing what he's doing for personal desires. Gaara's father did what he did for the sake of his village. Not to say that what his father did was right, but even Gaara himself said it, "But now, I do not hate you. I even understand what you're trying to do...," Gaara's father just went about it the wrong way and he admits it in the end, proclaiming he doesn't have an "eye for value." Well, unless he sucker-punches Gaara willingly after telling Gaara that his mother loved him. Remember, Ei had the same ideas too, that's why he intercepted Naruto and Bee.

Why I'm starting to have a feeling that this series is starting to pass the message that "a father can completely f*c* up his kid childhood as long as this is for an good cause", seriously, since Minato choice 40 chapters back, I got quite shocked of how much of the people here think doing this sort of things is alright, well, sucks to be me, I guess...

[Paptala]

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I think it's great that a male manga writer has a strong emotional bond with his mother and feels free to express it through the mothers and sons in his manga in such a positive way. (Part of it is Japanese socialization- instead of the western way where guys are sneered at for even having a close positive bond with their mothers and called "mamas boys"- in Japan it's expected both sons and daughters will continue to have a close emotional bond with their moms throughout their lives.)

On top of that is Kishimoto told the story way back in part 1 how he thought of his mom as an awesome and heroic person when he was a boy- when she calmly rescued him when he fell into a pile of muck on a field trip and couldn't get himself out. Even his teacher just stood and stared at him, but his mom just calmly stepped into the muck and pulled him out, no scolding just straightforward action. (Bet she shot the teacher a nasty look though for being such a lame example for the kids of how an adult caretaker is supposed to react in that situation) Kishimoto said when his mom pulled him out of the muck he thought she was the most awesome and heroic person.

That makes a lot of sense now, why every single in mother in Naruto is adored by their child in this manga, and why the main characters mothers play such strong roles in their lives. Seriously, every male in this manga flat out adores their moms (except maybe Shikamaru and Kiba, though that's more for comical effect and the respect and care is definitely still there).

Given that, I find it a bit strange that so many of the rookie's families have been introduced and played roles in the manga and Sakura's parents / family has been completely and utterly absent from the manga (aside from her side comment about them in chapter 3 when talking about how her parents would never let her get away with the stuff Naruto pulls). It bothers me quite a bit that Kishi never bothered to have her family be a part of the story at all.

Why I'm starting to have a feeling that this series is starting to pass the message that "a father can completely f*c* up his kid childhood as long as this is for an good cause", seriously, since Minato choice 40 chapters back, I got quite shocked of how much of the people here think doing this sort of things is alright, well, sucks to be me, I guess...

I think that has more to do with Japan's cultural norms than anything else. Japan is a community oriented society, emphasizing the importance of what's best for the greatest number of people and for the community as a whole, rather than an individualistic society (such as the U.S.) which emphasizes the importance of the individual and individual strengths.

I mean, think of the sort of decisions that Goku for instance made in regards to his own family ; abandoned them for 7 years, leaving ChiChi to raise Gohan AND a newborn as a single parent, in order to prevent any more enemies coming to threaten the Earth - he fully expected Gohan, at age 11, to step into his shoes as defender of the planet in his absence as well. Again, placing the needs of the many over the needs of the few. Same with when he left his family at the end of the series to go train Uub for an unspecified number of years.

Edited by Paptala, 13 July 2011 - 02:27 AM.

[tricksie]

yes 3 months premature weighed 2 pounds 3 ounces.

now I am big at around 230lbs+ the joke is "once I was born I started eating and haven't stopped since"

lol - wow, you really were about gaara's size then, right? you just had a head start on everyone else!

@paptala - interesting point about Sakura. But I've always thought she was the unintentional orphan of the group.

And yeah, the dad thing. It's interesting to consider it may be a cultural thing. In many western fairytales, the dad is the good person and the mother/stepmother turns out to be bad, so it's the opposite. But Gaara's dad reminds me of Hinata's dad, somewhat, in this manga.

I feel like Gaara's dad will be redeemed too. Somehow. Dammit.

Edited by tricksie, 13 July 2011 - 02:33 AM.

[alexander]

And yeah, the dad thing. It's interesting to consider it may be a cultural thing. In many western fairytales, the dad is the good person and the mother/stepmother turns out to be bad, so it's the opposite. But Gaara's dad reminds me of Hinata's dad, somewhat, in this manga.

I feel like Gaara's dad will be redeemed too. Somehow. Dammit.

Don't you mean the step mother? lol

That's what pisses me off the most, no matter how much horrid an mostruous thing a character do, he aways end up redeemed by some few kind words, I mean, a character don't aways need to be mr. forgivin in order to move on with his life.

[harry4e]

Interesting chapter, never really thought Gaara's mother didn't love him, I had alway thought it was a plot by his uncle to drive him insane, which now appears was actually a ploy from his idiot father to test to see if his was strong enough to handle anything thrown at him. I compltely forgot than it was Gaara's mother who gave him his name, I though it meant his first name but is appears that it was the surname, and from the sound of it from the flashback, the sand protect him wasn't a power he gained from the Bijuu, but the Bijuu might be telling the truth and it really was his mother protecting him.

Note: Selling gold created from using a bloodline limit? I thought that pink crystal bloodline in the three tales filler arc was silly, but seeing someone capable of creating Gold, makes me think the crystals were not tha silly and I ouldn't be surprised if we see a ninja with Diamond bloodline limit.

It's a shame really but we are seing some really some strange and powerful bloodline limits, and I would have preffered to see introduced slowly as the story progressed, maybe as ninja's that Team seven would have fought as they worked their teamwork, instead of seeming them all in dead ninja's of yesteryears being forced into combat against their will.

[shadow_Uzumaki]

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I think it's great that a male manga writer has a strong emotional bond with his mother and feels free to express it through the mothers and sons in his manga in such a positive way. (Part of it is Japanese socialization- instead of the western way where guys are sneered at for even having a close positive bond with their mothers and called "mamas boys"- in Japan it's expected both sons and daughters will continue to have a close emotional bond with their moms throughout their lives.)

On top of that is Kishimoto told the story way back in part 1 how he thought of his mom as an awesome and heroic person when he was a boy- when she calmly rescued him when he fell into a pile of muck on a field trip and couldn't get himself out. Even his teacher just stood and stared at him, but his mom just calmly stepped into the muck and pulled him out, no scolding just straightforward action. (Bet she shot the teacher a nasty look though for being such a lame example for the kids of how an adult caretaker is supposed to react in that situation) Kishimoto said when his mom pulled him out of the muck he thought she was the most awesome and heroic person.

Ah, so that explains why Kishi's mother characters are badasses in their own right. There's Kushina who held back a demon to protect her son by letting it stab her and holding the claw in place and then returns as an echo of her own chakra to chain Kyuubi the hell up; and now Karura (sp?) who continues to protect Gaara even after her death. It'd be interesting if Kurenai will join this legion of badass Mama Bears. Oh jeez, and that leads me to imagining Sakura when she has her own children....Woe betide anyone who even looks at them funny...

[The Tax-Man]

Note: Selling gold created from using a bloodline limit? I thought that pink crystal bloodline in the three tales filler arc was silly, but seeing someone capable of creating Gold, makes me think the crystals were not tha silly and I ouldn't be surprised if we see a ninja with Diamond bloodline limit.

If InuYasha can made diamond then why not? Anyway, that is a very good point. The same effect could have been reached with iron or steel. Gold wasn't necessarily. What's the point? Maybe to show it isn't important? I really don't know.

[harry4e]

If InuYasha can made diamond then why not? Anyway, that is a very good point. The same effect could have been reached with iron or steel. Gold wasn't necessarily. What's the point? Maybe to show it isn't important? I really don't know.

I think Gold was used to emphasize in the flashback the pressure Suna was under with the reduction in revenue being earned from their ninja's and had to use Gold to support the village economy. It doesn't justify what he did but goes a long way to explain why he did what he did, and also explains why they allied themselves with Orichimaru during the invasion.

[Codus N]

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The Fourth Kazekage is a monster, and even if there's a redemption for him in the manga, there won't be with me. He lied to his family at every opportunity, he endangered his village by making Gaara release the Ichibi in his grief, he ordered Yashamaru to his death despite the man being the only thing keeping Gaara from going completely insane, and he did it all for some vague "Greater Good" concept. The road to hell indeed.

At least we know that the Yashamaru we saw in Gaara's memories was real, and not an act. I hope Gaara realizes that.

The Second Mizukage is quickly becoming one of my favorite zombies. He bounces from pissed off to excited fanboy faster than even Naruto.

Yep, that's how I feel too. But I think the point of Gaara meeting his father here was to have his father tell him that he was indeed loved by his mother and he was lying the entire time. Gaara won't forgive him, but at least he'll come to a better understanding with his father like he said in this chapter. The point of this fight was to have Gaara try to understand what his father was trying to do, but not forgive him.

This chapter really felt like the Minato-Naruto convo all over again. Minato wasn't seeking forgiveness from Naruto. He knew very well what he's done is unforgivable for Naruto. But at the very least, he wants Naruto to understand WHY he did it and that he BELIEVED in him. Same thing with Gaara, his dad wanted him to know that his mother really loved him. He realizes himself that his actions are inexcusable, but at the very least, he wants his son to know that his mother indeed loved him. That's the point of his convo. Like Minato's point was to have Naruto understand the reasons behind his actions. If Minato was there, "Hey, you're not the only one. Even I'm a pretty bad father myself"

lol - wow, you really were about gaara's size then, right? you just had a head start on everyone else!

@paptala - interesting point about Sakura. But I've always thought she was the unintentional orphan of the group.

And yeah, the dad thing. It's interesting to consider it may be a cultural thing. In many western fairytales, the dad is the good person and the mother/stepmother turns out to be bad, so it's the opposite. But Gaara's dad reminds me of Hinata's dad, somewhat, in this manga.

I feel like Gaara's dad will be redeemed too. Somehow. Dammit.

Nah, he won't be redeemed, but they will come to an understanding. That's the whole point of this meeting.

Ah, so that explains why Kishi's mother characters are badasses in their own right. There's Kushina who held back a demon to protect her son by letting it stab her and holding the claw in place and then returns as an echo of her own chakra to chain Kyuubi the hell up; and now Karura (sp?) who continues to protect Gaara even after her death. It'd be interesting if Kurenai will join this legion of badass Mama Bears. Oh jeez, and that leads me to imagining Sakura when she has her own children....Woe betide anyone who even looks at them funny...

Yeah, you're right if her kid gets teased like she did back in her academy days, you can be sure she'll teach those kids a lesson.

Y'know, now that I think about it, does anyone think GaaMatsu is becoming a bit more plausible?? I just remembered that Karura has the same hair colour as Matsuri, but with different shades. Same with Sakura and Kushina. Same colour, different shades.

Edited by Codus N, 13 July 2011 - 02:24 PM.

[Super Boom]

This chapter really felt like the Minato-Naruto convo all over again. Minato wasn't seeking forgiveness from Naruto. He knew very well what he's done is unforgivable for Naruto. But at the very least, he wants Naruto to understand WHY he did it and that he BELIEVED in him. Same thing with Gaara, his dad wanted him to know that his mother really loved him. He realizes himself that his actions are inexcusable, but at the very least, he wants his son to know that his mother indeed loved him. That's the point of his convo. Like Minato's point was to have Naruto understand the reasons behind his actions. If Minato was there, "Hey, you're not the only one. Even I'm a pretty bad father myself"

I guess the situations are pretty similar from the dad's sides, since they both seemed to regret their actions, but it's hard to compare pushing your brother-in-law to kill your son for some 'true worth' nonsense with Minato's decision. He was pretty much looking at two options: crappy choice and crappier choice. Especially considering that the Kyuubi's resurrection would have probably resulted in more deaths before sealing it in a new Jinchuriki (which probably would have been Naruto anyway due to his Uzumaki blood). Or the Akatsuki getting ahold of it that much faster.
Unless Minato secretly had a 'seal Kyuubi away without me dying no jutsu', I have a tough time seeing him as the bad guy in that whole scenario. He basically picked the lesser of two evils, at least IMO. Besides, I can't see Gaara idolizing his father they way Naruto seems to fanboy over Minato now, at least not in a way that wouldn't seem awkward.

But I suppose the whole 'Minato being justified or not' argument has been debated here ad hominen already.

the importance of what's best for the greatest number of people and for the community as a whole[/b], rather than an individualistic society (such as the U.S.) which emphasizes the importance of the individual and individual strengths.

I mean, think of the sort of decisions that Goku for instance made in regards to his own family ; abandoned them for 7 years, leaving ChiChi to raise Gohan AND a newborn as a single parent, in order to prevent any more enemies coming to threaten the Earth - he fully expected Gohan, at age 11, to step into his shoes as defender of the planet in his absence as well. Again, placing the needs of the many over the needs of the few. Same with when he left his family at the end of the series to go train Uub for an unspecified number of years.

I think that's a good point, Japanese society seems to place more emphasis on the whole than the individual parts. It's probably why characters who seem to follow a utilitarian worldview don't seem to be shown in the same light that a lot of Western fans seem to see them in.

Also, interesting point about Goku. He also made a crappy decison for the greater good (choosing not to be resurrected), but I don't recall him getting too much flack over being a bad father. Though I guess it was sort of pointless, since he just came back to life anyway to fight the next big villain.

EDIT - @Codus: GaaMatsu? Yeah, I can see that similarity, with the similar hair shades. Though I guess I'd be more inclined to agree if we saw more of her. I mean, as far as I know, Matsuri's only appeared in an anime filler arc and the first Part II arc, which was a pretty minor role as I recall.

Edited by Boom...Winning, 13 July 2011 - 03:15 PM.

[CloudMountainJuror]

Y'know, now that I think about it, does anyone think GaaMatsu is becoming a bit more plausible?? I just remembered that Karura has the same hair colour as Matsuri, but with different shades. Same with Sakura and Kushina. Same colour, different shades.

Isn't Matsuri just an anime character? I don't remember ever seeing her once in the manga and I read the entire Gaara retrieval arc When she popped up in the anime out of nowhere in that arc I was like, "Wait, who the heck is she? Am I supposed to know who she is?".

Edited by zacrathedemon5, 13 July 2011 - 04:07 PM.