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POAL: What Does It Mean?


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#21 goldenarms

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Posted 13 April 2015 - 05:12 AM

Serious question: l just said l'd never get over that part so what exactly do you think your idiotic rationalization is going to accomplish? Do you think l've never thought about that perspective and that now you've spelled it out to me it'll all make sense? No, it's completely absurd and insulting. She DIED in front of him FFS. Whatever.

 

See this is why Kishimoto didn't have to try. He could churn out the worst nonsense and people would gladly swallow and justify it later.

 

Slow down.

 

I just offered an explanation how Naruto could misunderstand Hinata's feelings, which is based off some situations that I personally underwent. Whether you want to accept it or not is none of my concern. I'm just putting it out there that it CAN be possible, even when you're supposedly in tune with feelings. Like knee-jerk reactions, or bad habits that you've cultivated for years.

 

And, to be fair, Sasuke "died" for Naruto all those years ago in wave. I'm pretty certain that he isn't going to think Sasuke wants to bone him and make butt-babies*, no matter how many yaoi fangirls will try to convince you otherwise. XD

 

* Yes, there is at least one Naruto yaoi fanfic that decided real biology was wack, so they described, in all seriousness, how men can get pregnant and give birth to babies from their butts. Take that to bed with you. :|



#22 Tiller

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Posted 13 April 2015 - 06:32 AM

For Naruto to "misunderstand" Hinata's feelings for him after she selfishly tried to commit suicide in front of him well "defending" him against Pain, (and I only use that word because I don't know what else to call it when you knowingly throw yourself in front of a bullet, well also knowing that that person you are throwing yourself in front of will likely die anyways) would require him to be one of the stupidest individuals to have been born on the face of the planet who didn't have a developmental disability. Which isn't possible.

 

Any attempted explanation beyond that is just self indulgent drivel.



 


#23 BlackBird19

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Posted 13 April 2015 - 06:34 AM

The POAL is further proof that Kishi just wrote his characters personalities to be consistently contradicting. Much like his story. Naruto is supposed to be both highly empathetic and understanding while being completely oblivious and ignorant. Well which is it? That moment showed that Naruto understands love, even the romantic kind. He felt his heart break while understanding that Sakura was in love Sasuke. Then came to the decision that he would do whatever it took to make the girl he loved happy no matter what. Then after that we're supposed believe he's oblivious to romantic feelings. No, he was oblivious to Hinata because he was already in love with someone else and spent very little time around any other girl. That's all. Plus in the manga it was never shown or explained when Naruto fell out of love with Sakura. Not once. There was just the half-assed explanation of a rivalry offered in the movie.



#24 dejavu

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Posted 13 April 2015 - 09:56 AM

The POAL is further proof that Kishi just wrote his characters personalities to be consistently contradicting. Much like his story. Naruto is supposed to be both highly empathetic and understanding while being completely oblivious and ignorant. Well which is it? That moment showed that Naruto understands love, even the romantic kind. He felt his heart break while understanding that Sakura was in love Sasuke. Then came to the decision that he would do whatever it took to make the girl he loved happy no matter what. Then after that we're supposed believe he's oblivious to romantic feelings. No, he was oblivious to Hinata because he was already in love with someone else and spent very little time around any other girl. That's all. Plus in the manga it was never shown or explained when Naruto fell out of love with Sakura. Not once. There was just the half-assed explanation of a rivalry offered in the movie.


All the contradictions...
the inconsistencies..
and ridiculous cover-ups (may it be thru a movie, fillers and novels )that only make them look more pathetic

All those just tell me that the manga i grew up to love isn't really Kishimoto's alone. It was a result of a man full of potential but lacks backbone.

Or maybe i am wrong and whatnot..at the end of the day this manga doesn't appear to be the same manga i was reading for 10years now. And it aint just narusaku but everythin on it doesnt feel right anymore.

The POAL is just one of the biggest elephant in the room that they want us to forget so it doesn't mean anything now.. coz giving it a meaning will just put Naruto in a bad light and he would appear like a totally different person. Actually all of these are like a separate series with characters that looks similar but they ain't the same even the story

#25 Illnevergiveup3

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Posted 13 April 2015 - 06:05 PM

The POAL was to me showing how much Naruto truly loves Sakura-Chan. It was the red string of fate that was supposed to bring them together. Then thing that was supposed to show her that Naruto is the one for her and not Sasuke. And that's the obvious direction Kishi was heading until things went down South.

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#26 goldenarms

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Posted 14 April 2015 - 05:56 AM

For Naruto to "misunderstand" Hinata's feelings for him after she selfishly tried to commit suicide in front of him well "defending" him against Pain, (and I only use that word because I don't know what else to call it when you knowingly throw yourself in front of a bullet, well also knowing that that person you are throwing yourself in front of will likely die anyways) would require him to be one of the stupidest individuals to have been born on the face of the planet who didn't have a developmental disability. Which isn't possible.

 

Any attempted explanation beyond that is just self indulgent drivel.

 

You know something interesting? Some months back, I had this sudden, and saddening, bit of insight re-reading Kushina's wish list for Naruto and his responses. He clearly replied to every thing she had said, no matter how mundane it was, except for when it came down to her request that he finds a woman like her to marry. He totally dodges it like it was the draft. The wish list comes up much later on, and Naruto acknowledges the request's existence, but, again, refuses to comment on it in any way, shape, or form.

 

I found that interesting for a long time. Why would he do that? Within an in-universe mindset, why would Naruto blatantly not talk about the kind of girl he should/would be with even within the privacy of his own thoughts?

 

And then the answer came to me -- Naruto honestly believed that he would never meet a girl that would want to marry him. And the idea of that was something that troubled him so much, he would do whatever it took to ignore it, act like the issue wasn't even there. Of course, no child wants to disappoint his parents, especially one that only just now met them in the last few months post-mordem, so, rather than  saying something that shocking, he opted to not address it, like it'll quietly go away if he just didn't think about it.

 

Which now repaints Naruto's response to Edo!Minato when he asked if Sakura was his girlfriend. Because the first time I read the page, I commented on how Naruto looked when asked the question. Long story short -- deer-in-headlights. And he hemmed and hawwed for a few seconds before answering in possibly the most contradictory pattern he would ever comment in: "Yeah! ...well, more or less..."

 

I don't know about you guys, but that just felt like a blatant lie to me, even to himself. The startled look in his eyes, the bit of sweat, the hemming and hawwing before confirming, then kinda-sorta taking it back immediately... that was nothing like Naruto when he was 12 when Konohamaru asked him if he and sakura were an item.

 

And that's whan I re-read the Kushina part and discovered that Minato's parting words were, "Listen to your chatterbox mother." And in light of this theory that Naruto truly felt that he would go unloved and unmarried for all of his life, Naruto effectively lied to Minato for the sake of upholding the image of his mother's wishes and to put Minato's mind at ease, even though he himself did not feel it would ever come to pass.

 

That's my theory, based on information from the manga, excluding any reasons that occur outside the Naruto world (pretty much anything involving Kishimoto, sh*tty writing, editorial pressure, Studio Pierrot and the like). Do you feel that it's at all possible for Naruto, in-universe, to feel such things? Why or why not?


Edited by goldenarms, 14 April 2015 - 05:57 AM.


#27 tricksie

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Posted 14 April 2015 - 02:43 PM

 

You know something interesting? Some months back, I had this sudden, and saddening, bit of insight re-reading Kushina's wish list for Naruto and his responses. He clearly replied to every thing she had said, no matter how mundane it was, except for when it came down to her request that he finds a woman like her to marry. He totally dodges it like it was the draft. The wish list comes up much later on, and Naruto acknowledges the request's existence, but, again, refuses to comment on it in any way, shape, or form.

 

I found that interesting for a long time. Why would he do that? Within an in-universe mindset, why would Naruto blatantly not talk about the kind of girl he should/would be with even within the privacy of his own thoughts?

 

And then the answer came to me -- Naruto honestly believed that he would never meet a girl that would want to marry him. And the idea of that was something that troubled him so much, he would do whatever it took to ignore it, act like the issue wasn't even there. Of course, no child wants to disappoint his parents, especially one that only just now met them in the last few months post-mordem, so, rather than  saying something that shocking, he opted to not address it, like it'll quietly go away if he just didn't think about it.

 

Which now repaints Naruto's response to Edo!Minato when he asked if Sakura was his girlfriend. Because the first time I read the page, I commented on how Naruto looked when asked the question. Long story short -- deer-in-headlights. And he hemmed and hawwed for a few seconds before answering in possibly the most contradictory pattern he would ever comment in: "Yeah! ...well, more or less..."

 

I don't know about you guys, but that just felt like a blatant lie to me, even to himself. The startled look in his eyes, the bit of sweat, the hemming and hawwing before confirming, then kinda-sorta taking it back immediately... that was nothing like Naruto when he was 12 when Konohamaru asked him if he and sakura were an item.

 

And that's whan I re-read the Kushina part and discovered that Minato's parting words were, "Listen to your chatterbox mother." And in light of this theory that Naruto truly felt that he would go unloved and unmarried for all of his life, Naruto effectively lied to Minato for the sake of upholding the image of his mother's wishes and to put Minato's mind at ease, even though he himself did not feel it would ever come to pass.

 

That's my theory, based on information from the manga, excluding any reasons that occur outside the Naruto world (pretty much anything involving Kishimoto, sh*tty writing, editorial pressure, Studio Pierrot and the like). Do you feel that it's at all possible for Naruto, in-universe, to feel such things? Why or why not?

 

That's a cool way to think about it, and if the ending hadn't gone down the way it did, I would think that something like that would be possible. That Kishimoto was layering some depth in Naruto's character in his responses to his mother and his father. In fact, I entirely expected some focus to be on Naruto at the end — his hopes, his character development, and what he wanted from his future life in light of his past experiences — but the focus never shifted back to Naruto. The story just ended without anything in his story arc being resolved except that he became Hokage.

 

So, for me, I think the two responses to the his parents show Naruto when the story direction was pointing two different ways. With Kushina, it was clear Naruto was thinking about Sakura and would have answered accordingly if it wasn't omitted for suspense purposes.

 

With Minato, we know now that scene was put in as a red herring to mislead readers, even though Naruto, Sakura and Minato were all behaving in character. It's not a misdirect because they were acting strange or not true to themselves — it was misleading because Kishimoto threw over the whole ending afterwards. But knowing from Kishimoto himself that that scene was a lie, it's harder to look at it as the true NS moment it appears to be on the surface. Instead it shows Naruto now that the direction of the story has changed. I don't think Naruto's lying or nervous or acting to Minato as anything other than his normal self who was completely focused on Sakura. The only thing difference was that at that point, Naruto was a pawn. He had already been moved into position to become Hinata's husband to continue the story. 

 

I think Naruto thought he would be loved and it would be Sakura, and he answered accordingly. The only thing is he didn't know (as we didn't know) that by that point his story was already over.

 

I see the interactions as coming from two parts of the story — the first where the the focus was on moving toward a satisfying resolution of the story, the second where the focus was on leaving everything as open as possible so they could continue the story on.

 

Like I said, I think it's a cool theory, and I would say that there was depth in it still when Naruto was talking to Kushina. But in the end, I think Kishimoto just didn't care. He was deliberately writing everything to mess with the readers. There's no depth of emotion there. Kishimoto could have just as easily written Naruto as giving Sakura a marriage proposal in front of Minato, and Kishi would have still ret-conned the whole thing with the epilogue of NH ending up together with no explanation.



#28 goldenarms

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Posted 15 April 2015 - 10:23 PM

 

That's a cool way to think about it, and if the ending hadn't gone down the way it did, I would think that something like that would be possible. That Kishimoto was layering some depth in Naruto's character in his responses to his mother and his father. In fact, I entirely expected some focus to be on Naruto at the end — his hopes, his character development, and what he wanted from his future life in light of his past experiences — but the focus never shifted back to Naruto. The story just ended without anything in his story arc being resolved except that he became Hokage.

 

So, for me, I think the two responses to the his parents show Naruto when the story direction was pointing two different ways. With Kushina, it was clear Naruto was thinking about Sakura and would have answered accordingly if it wasn't omitted for suspense purposes.

 

How so? What kind of indicators do you base that on?



#29 Don'tMindME

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Posted 17 April 2015 - 02:45 AM

I'm with you golden. I think a lot of people on here give way more more romantic meaning to parts of Naruto then they actually represent. The POAL always seemed to me far more about Naruto promising himself that he would bring back Sasuke then anything with Sakura. 

 

Don't get me wrong, I wanted to see NS happen but with REAL development with the two actually concerning their feelings, but that never actually happened after early part 2. And I never took the POAL and Naruto's claim to Minato to ever be actual NS moments, and with how things turned out I was right for doing so.With the NH hand hold scene happening only a little while before, by the time of the girlfriend comment I already knew which way the story was heading. 


Edited by Don'tMindME, 17 April 2015 - 03:22 AM.


#30 Hiraishin

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Posted 17 April 2015 - 01:58 PM

No no no. The POAL wasn't a promise to himself (wtf?), it was a promise to SAKURA. That's why when she came up he talked about her feelings and how he understands them (because he knows unrequited love, too) before telling HER (not himself) "I'll definitely bring Sasuke back! Promise of a lifetime!" And later when Sakura visits him in the hospital after the VotE and she looks sad, he says he'll fulfill his promise (because he said it was a promise of a lifetime).
Not to mention when Lee showed up to help him against Kimimarou Lee reminded him of the promise he made to SAKURA, and in 693 Naruto tells Kakashi he made a promise to Sakura.

That makes no sense, making a promise to himself when sakura's right there and she put her faith him..
After Naruto made the promise Sakura thinks about how Naruto always understood her and always helped her. That coming after the moment he made the promise makes no sense if it was to himself. :\
He was already resolved to bring Sasuke back before Sakura begged him to.

The POAL was what cemented naruto's feelings as real, true love. That's why when Sai told Sakura Naruto loves her, she thinks back to the moment he made the promise, and when he tells her he'll keep his promise.

The POAL had nothing to do with his desire to save Sasuke (which naruto says himself in 469, if it wasn't already clear before - plus shizune says "naruto's not just doing it because he promised sakura!" Another thing proving the promise was for Sakura and his desire to help sasuke is independent of it), and everything to do with Sakura and Naruto's feelings for her. It is one of the most touching moments in the series (imo) and one of the most profound NS moments/scenes, proving Naruto's feelings and another show of his selflessness. Please don't try to erase that.

Edited by Hiraishin, 17 April 2015 - 02:04 PM.

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#31 Illnevergiveup3

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Posted 17 April 2015 - 04:10 PM

No no no. The POAL wasn't a promise to himself (wtf?), it was a promise to SAKURA. That's why when she came up he talked about her feelings and how he understands them (because he knows unrequited love, too) before telling HER (not himself) "I'll definitely bring Sasuke back! Promise of a lifetime!" And later when Sakura visits him in the hospital after the VotE and she looks sad, he says he'll fulfill his promise (because he said it was a promise of a lifetime).
Not to mention when Lee showed up to help him against Kimimarou Lee reminded him of the promise he made to SAKURA, and in 693 Naruto tells Kakashi he made a promise to Sakura.

That makes no sense, making a promise to himself when sakura's right there and she put her faith him..
After Naruto made the promise Sakura thinks about how Naruto always understood her and always helped her. That coming after the moment he made the promise makes no sense if it was to himself. :\
He was already resolved to bring Sasuke back before Sakura begged him to.

The POAL was what cemented naruto's feelings as real, true love. That's why when Sai told Sakura Naruto loves her, she thinks back to the moment he made the promise, and when he tells her he'll keep his promise.

The POAL had nothing to do with his desire to save Sasuke (which naruto says himself in 469, if it wasn't already clear before - plus shizune says "naruto's not just doing it because he promised sakura!" Another thing proving the promise was for Sakura and his desire to help sasuke is independent of it), and everything to do with Sakura and Naruto's feelings for her. It is one of the most touching moments in the series (imo) and one of the most profound NS moments/scenes, proving Naruto's feelings and another show of his selflessness. Please don't try to erase that.

I agree with every word you said.

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#32 dejavu

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Posted 18 April 2015 - 12:21 PM

No no no. The POAL wasn't a promise to himself (wtf?), it was a promise to SAKURA. That's why when she came up he talked about her feelings and how he understands them (because he knows unrequited love, too) before telling HER (not himself) "I'll definitely bring Sasuke back! Promise of a lifetime!" And later when Sakura visits him in the hospital after the VotE and she looks sad, he says he'll fulfill his promise (because he said it was a promise of a lifetime).
Not to mention when Lee showed up to help him against Kimimarou Lee reminded him of the promise he made to SAKURA, and in 693 Naruto tells Kakashi he made a promise to Sakura.

That makes no sense, making a promise to himself when sakura's right there and she put her faith him..
After Naruto made the promise Sakura thinks about how Naruto always understood her and always helped her. That coming after the moment he made the promise makes no sense if it was to himself. :\
He was already resolved to bring Sasuke back before Sakura begged him to.

The POAL was what cemented naruto's feelings as real, true love. That's why when Sai told Sakura Naruto loves her, she thinks back to the moment he made the promise, and when he tells her he'll keep his promise.

The POAL had nothing to do with his desire to save Sasuke (which naruto says himself in 469, if it wasn't already clear before - plus shizune says "naruto's not just doing it because he promised sakura!" Another thing proving the promise was for Sakura and his desire to help sasuke is independent of it), and everything to do with Sakura and Naruto's feelings for her. It is one of the most touching moments in the series (imo) and one of the most profound NS moments/scenes, proving Naruto's feelings and another show of his selflessness. Please don't try to erase that.


so much truth in there! Sadly the creator himself threw that away..i am sure kishi remembers the POAL but decided to dispose of it and render it meaningless just so it could fit the most forced ending Ive ever seen in the history of manga.

This is why its sad and infuriating at the same time because they just trampled Naruto's character. From the hospital scene, the POAL, the "how can i..." scene with Sai, the "fail"confession of Sakura in the land of iron. Upto that face he made in 699..

It was clear that his love for Sakura aint just about rivalry. Them saying that, THAT is the case just buried Naruto and forcibly change him into something he is not. He was reduced to a stepping tool in his own story. When he should be the one changing everybody.

I remember witnessing POAL for the first time not as an ns fan but as a ss/nh fan. And it moved me. It didnt make me leave ss and nh fandom but it made me respect NaruSaku esp Naruto.

He was suppose to be the hero, the sincere boy who loves and cares too much, the lonely boy until he met Iruka and Sasuke (so pls throw that filler crap that hinata was there all along that just ruins the core foundation of this manga..ita like saying all the things that happened in the manga were dreams and now he wakes up), he was the selfless boy, the one who doesnt go back to his words, the one who never gives up.. and now this?

The POAL made Sakura realized that Naruto understands her, that she was wrong to think of him as she did in chap 3 (bench scene).. but them rendering Sakura as a tool to satisfy his rivalry with Sasuke just made him the person Sakura thought he was.

#33 Dario

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Posted 19 April 2015 - 01:42 AM


The POAL made Sakura realized that Naruto understands her, that she was wrong to think of him as she did in chap 3 (bench scene).. but them rendering Sakura as a tool to satisfy his rivalry with Sasuke just made him the person Sakura thought he was.

That's probably the most tragic part of all that mess, right? Part 1 Sakura was right. That's probably why Kishimoto didn't think she needed to change. 



#34 Aizen-Sama

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Posted 19 April 2015 - 09:17 AM

Everytime I see "POAL" it reminds me of the North Pole and polar bears.

#35 ThroughWithLove

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Posted 20 April 2015 - 12:09 AM

It means Naruto is a sucker and Sakura was right about him all along.


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#36 Aizen-Sama

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Posted 20 April 2015 - 01:11 AM

"POAL" means:

 

P*ssy's

Obvious

Absent

Love



#37 dejavu

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Posted 20 April 2015 - 10:45 AM

It means Naruto is a sucker and Sakura was right about him all along.


And thats why he ended up with Hinata. They both suck.
and so is everyone in this series, creator and staff included.

#38 Aizen-Sama

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Posted 20 April 2015 - 11:20 AM

And thats why he ended up with Hinata. They both suck.
and so is everyone in this series, creator and staff included.


Don't forget the fandom. ;) This whole sh*thole can burn in hell. Burn it all!!




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