169 replies to this topic

[kirabook]

Yes, Rin was his motivation, but what did he do with that motivation? He didn't outright seek to kill everyone who speaks his name the wrong way (Sasuke). He didn't seek to get stronger for the sake of being strong (Sasori, Orochimaru), he got strong because he wanted to grant everyone a dream, including his dream.

In this genjutsu, it seems that everyone will finally get what they desired, which is actually what the Road to Ninja movie hinted at. It won't just be him that gets Rin, Kakashi will get what he wants, Minato and Kushina will get what they want, everyone's dream will be fulfilled and the world will be at peace. No one will die, no one will fight, no one will suffer. Everything will be happy.

If you compare Obito's goals to Sasori's you'll realize Sasori didn't have a goal. He killed to kill, he had no greater motive other than becoming the best puppet master ever.
Compared to Orochimaru's, Orochimaru wants to live forever to learn every jutsu possible, selfish and self centered. He's doing nothing for no one but himself. His actions lead to nothing but self fulfillment.
Compared to Sasuke, Sasuke 'thinks' he's totally going to restore the Uchiha name by slaughtering an entire village of people. Besides Obito, he's the only Uchiha left. Who is he really "restoring"? Himself, and only himself. Of course, it looks like he's going to change his mind soon, but either way, he wants nothing but to make himself feel better. Even after discovering most of the truth and why it happened that way, he still does what he wants to do to fulfill his own needs.
Compared to Nagato, pretty much exactly the same. There was a greater goal that he wanted to achieve, even if people died along the way.

We all know what Obito has done up to this point, and we aren't forgiving him of his past actions, but considering the fact that, above all else, he wants to make the entire world better *even though the way he's doing so is horrible*, it's still easier to sympathize with him compared to villains who have been selfish pretty much all the way up to their death. It's human nature to have empathy for someone who suffered so much, even though you might feel guilty for empathizing with a criminal, you can't deny the fact that if something horrible has happened to them that made them that way. They might not be as "evil" as one believes. Just mentally scarred.

Either way, Obito is on the other side. We know his story now, and it makes this battle just that much more difficult to swallow in my opinion.

[tricksie]

So, Kishimoto answered questions, just not the ones we were expecting. I thought it might keep the focus on Rin and that Kakashi might interrupt to add his side of the story. But it's not to be. The focus now moves from Obito's motivation to Obito's journey, sidestepping any questions about what really happened. Basically, as an audience, we are now fully involved in Obito's world, like coming under a genjutsu. There is most certainly a reality out there, and Kakashi holds that key. But right now, we are traveling with Obito.

I didn't like how Nagato's eyes were so carelessly excused away by Madara. 'Oh that? I merely found him as a child and transplanted his eyes. You know, piece of cake.' An old, old man, finding the best descendant of of the senju line as a child, then transplanting your eyes into his head to incubate them until you can find him again....sounds like a helluva lot of work to me.

And I have to admit, I was a little confused when Obito's hand went through Rin. I thought Obito had discovered that it was all a genjutsu. (I'm still not exactly clear how he could kill all those people then suddenly not be able to touch her. Seems like an extra bit of torture on Kishimoto's part.)

[Hak]

I really don't find that much to symphasize with Obito. I find it very selfish to have a motivation of fullfilling his own dream. I also find it very possible that Madaras motivation is the death of his brother, hinted that Madara killed him himself. I've said this before, that it looks like the great great Uchiha clan can't live in regret. They are utterly unable to comprehend such a feeling.

What if the reason why Kakashi killed Rin still exists in the Tsukiyomi world or Rin rejects him? What then? Will Obito mod the genjutsu according his needs? I really don't believe that the genjutsu world will be everybodys dreamworld, it's just that farfetched and unimaginable to the selfines of these two Uchihas. Well to most Uchihas seen, maybe Mikoto and Shisui excluded.

[Nate River]

So, Kishimoto answered questions, just not the ones we were expecting. I thought it might keep the focus on Rin and that Kakashi might interrupt to add his side of the story. But it's not to be. The focus now moves from Obito's motivation to Obito's journey, sidestepping any questions about what really happened. Basically, as an audience, we are now fully involved in Obito's world, like coming under a genjutsu. There is most certainly a reality out there, and Kakashi holds that key. But right now, we are traveling with Obito.

I try to feel for the guy, but I have trouble. I simply cannot look past everything thing he has done up to this point and ignore all the blood on his hands long enough to feel sorry for the guy. So many people have died and suffered because he cannot deal with reality as it is. He doesn't dwell on the fact his friend is the one that killed her, it seems the real focus is that she is just simply dead and he cannot really accept that. After all, he doesn't even seek out the reason that Kakashi did what he did. If someone else had killed her, would it have mattered?

I have a feeling he is being had by Madara as well. We still don't have an answer for why Madara wants it and it seems off that a guy who has inflicted a bunch of pain and misery throughout his life as he has would be overly concerned with iradicting it. Of course, it's not like he has to work all that hard to convince Obito to buy into it.

I didn't like how Nagato's eyes were so carelessly excused away by Madara. 'Oh that? I merely found him as a child and transplanted his eyes. You know, piece of cake.' An old, old man, finding the best descendant of of the senju line as a child, then transplanting your eyes into his head to incubate them until you can find him again....sounds like a helluva lot of work to me.

And I have to admit, I was a little confused when Obito's hand went through Rin. I thought Obito had discovered that it was all a genjutsu. (I'm still not exactly clear how he could kill all those people then suddenly not be able to touch her. Seems like an extra bit of torture on Kishimoto's part.)

I know. What are the odds, right? It still makes no sense because it doesn't really explain how it happen. I guess it was before Madara had to attach himself to the device? I don't know. It's not real clear. Did Nagato just happen to wonder by if that was case? Was Madara seeking him out with this in mind or did he just stumble upon it? How would he even know a guy like Nagato was around for him to look for in the first place? After all, he is the only guy alive who can do what Madara wanted him to do. What luck I guess.

Almost as bad as the ret-con on Kakashi's eyes last week. That was awful.

So much handwaiving involved with this.

Yes, Rin was his motivation, but what did he do with that motivation? He didn't outright seek to kill everyone who speaks his name the wrong way (Sasuke). He didn't seek to get stronger for the sake of being strong (Sasori, Orochimaru), he got strong because he wanted to grant everyone a dream, including his dream.

In this genjutsu, it seems that everyone will finally get what they desired, which is actually what the Road to Ninja movie hinted at. It won't just be him that gets Rin, Kakashi will get what he wants, Minato and Kushina will get what they want, everyone's dream will be fulfilled and the world will be at peace. No one will die, no one will fight, no one will suffer. Everything will be happy.

No one will die? Rin's already dead. Any "Rin" in his world will be an illusion. She still lost her life and mortality as a concept will not cease to exist because people are living in a dream. They themselves will eventually die even if they never percive those around them dying. At that's simply assuming what Obito says actually pans out they way he thinks. Communism's history is one of big promises of how equal we will all be only for reality to consistently inflict ungodly body counts on nations that employ it and all for a promise that never pans out.

I tend to view people who profess to know what my best interests are with enourmous suspicion. Especially, from the standpoint Obito does. What Obito seeks to do is absolute tryanny wrapped in a nice words. Living would lose all meaning, and everyone existance would be dependent on those controlling the genjutsu. Would each person live in their own person fantasy where nothing is real? Would it be one single reality and if so how does everyone get what they want? Moreover, this skirts the massive amount of pain and suffering he has inflicted on his way there. Necessary sacrifices, I guess?

I can already see where this is going to go and what kind of talk no jutsu Naruto will use.

At least with Sasuke, he did not go after anyone who spoke his name wrong. He targeted only the person who he, justifiably, believed had wronged him. Sasuke's own goals only expanded after Obito got a hold of him and pushed him in that direction. This does not absolve Sasuke of his own choices, but if we are going to sit here and compare to the two, Obito's hands are all over that too. The caveat at this point, is I do not know exactly what Sasuke will do now and he could end up in the same boat as Obito, but until he does, I think Obito is a far worse human being than Sasuke. It's not even close for me.

At this point, Obito is a pathetic soul who seeks to inflict his own version of reality on everyone else because he cannot accept the results of his own. Sasuke and Gaara were actively wronged by the people around them, Obito doesn't appear to have been wronged in the same way, he simply cannot accept that someone he cared about, died.

Compared to Sasuke, Sasuke 'thinks' he's totally going to restore the Uchiha name by slaughtering an entire village of people. Besides Obito, he's the only Uchiha left. Who is he really "restoring"? Himself, and only himself. Of course, it looks like he's going to change his mind soon, but either way, he wants nothing but to make himself feel better. Even after discovering most of the truth and why it happened that way, he still does what he wants to do to fulfill his own needs.
Compared to Nagato, pretty much exactly the same. There was a greater goal that he wanted to achieve, even if people died along the way.

How is Obito different here? Obito is not seeking to do this because it's for the betterment of everyone. He is seeking to do this for himself. Everyone else is a "lucky" beneficiary. He wants a reality in which Rin is alive, first and foremost. He comes across as wanting to eliminate pain and suffering because he cannto cope with either. He isn't doing it for the masses.

[HalfStarStudios]

Looks like Kishi finally ruined Obito.

Other than Obito being dropped from my favorite villain, this chapter wasn't that bad. We did get a lot of info. It seems Obito didn't need the Rinnegan to summon Gedo Mazu. Madara also can summon the Gedo Mazu. Madara had the Hashi nipple before his death. We found out how Black Zetsu was created and I was right, he's apart of Madara's will. We found out Madara is the one who first summoned Gedo Mazu and brought him to Earth. We found out that Gedo Mazu is indeed the Juubi's body.

[CloudMountainJuror]

Very good chapter, although I was hoping for more motivation for Obito to do what he does than just Rin's death... it's forgivable, though, because Kishi handled it well enough for us to buy it.

I don't see this flashback or the ones of Kabuto as trying to get us to feel sorry for the characters. Hell nah. I see them as just explanation as to why they do what they do. Forget feeling sorry for them, these are all about understanding. We may not agree with them, we may not even feel sorry for them, but we understand why they're doing what they do.

[Nate River]

Very good chapter, although I was hoping for more motivation for Obito to do what he does than just Rin's death... it's forgivable, though, because Kishi handled it well enough for us to buy it.

I don't see this flashback or the ones of Kabuto as trying to get us to feel sorry for the characters. Hell nah. I see them as just explanation as to why they do what they do. Forget feeling sorry for them, these are all about understanding. We may not agree with them, we may not even feel sorry for them, but we understand why they're doing what they do.

It was what I expected.

I don't know. I do think we are supposed to sympathize with them to a degree, but I don't think Kishimoto is trying to portrayed them as justified. It's an explanation, but he almost always employs the tragic one. I don't think were supposed to feel nothing about it.

As for Obito, I don't understand. I get the train of logic and know how he got there, so in that sense I know why. But I don't understand using personal tragedy as a basis for making others suffer.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

It was what I expected.

I don't know. I do think we are supposed to sympathize with them to a degree, but I don't think Kishimoto is trying to portrayed them as justified. It's an explanation, but he almost always employs the tragic one. I don't think were supposed to feel nothing about it.

As for Obito, I don't understand. I get the train of logic and know how he got there, so in that sense I know why. But I don't understand using personal tragedy as a basis for making others suffer.

I think in the end, Nate, what Obito is doing is just because deep down he doesn't care what he does as long as he sees Rin again. And Madara used that to his advantage to make Obito do what he wanted, given he had a feeling something like this would happen. That's how I've seen it. In the end, I imagine Obito will be freaked out if he learns WHY Kakashi had to kill Rin. After all, Sasuke snapped when he learned about Itachi from Obito and didn't mellow out for the most part until Itachi told him the WHOLE story. So I'm sure Obito may be in the same boat.

If there're villains in Naruto not worth feeling pity for, it'd be Orochimaru and Madara so far. Obito is just someone being used by his pain, like he used Nagato for his goals.

[CloudMountainJuror]

It was what I expected.

I don't know. I do think we are supposed to sympathize with them to a degree, but I don't think Kishimoto is trying to portrayed them as justified. It's an explanation, but he almost always employs the tragic one. I don't think were supposed to feel nothing about it.

Agreed, he doesn't want to portray them as justified. I see where you're coming from about the "feel nothing about it"; I think of it as a safety catch. If we don't end up feeling sorry for, say, Nagato, then at least we understand his motives. The same applies to Kabuto and Obito. Understanding is the most important aspect, the feelings are just icing on the cake.

As for Obito, I don't understand. I get the train of logic and know how he got there, so in that sense I know why. But I don't understand using personal tragedy as a basis for making others suffer.

That's what makes him a villain. He's being hypocritical. He wants to make himself feel better, but by creating war. It's not the ethical route; that's why he's a "bad guy".

[Codus N]

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it was a good chapter, finally the truth behind Zetsu, Nagato, everything. When Obito was first revealed as Tobi i was annoyed because it was yet another example of an Uchiha being evil, but now knowing his back story hes turning into a really great tragic villain. I thought that whole reveal was unnecessary with Kabuto that we learn his history and I feel it was executed rather poorly but it works so much better with Obito simply because its so easy to see Naruto go down that path.
I am hoping we will get to see Obito take control of Mist though because I feel as though that was simply retribution for their part in Rin's death.
I still want to know whats up with Rin and why Kakashi had to kill her, but thats something Kakashi will have to explain and we probably wont get that for a while.

Is Madara simply manipulating Obito or is there someone he wishes to bring back as well, possibly his brother.

There's so many different parallels to Team 7 now I would not be surprised if the next plot twist was that Hashirama and Madara were part of a team and there was a female in there who was the Sakura of their group and that's who Madara wants to bring back and who Sasuke and Orochimaru are going to see.

I wouldn't be surprised if that happened. Some sort of third party between them and a female, to boot. And let's not forget she is something of an "observer" of the world. That seems to be like a "take that" to those so-called "feminists" who keep saying Kishi is a sexist bastard

Yes, Rin was his motivation, but what did he do with that motivation? He didn't outright seek to kill everyone who speaks his name the wrong way (Sasuke). He didn't seek to get stronger for the sake of being strong (Sasori, Orochimaru), he got strong because he wanted to grant everyone a dream, including his dream.

In this genjutsu, it seems that everyone will finally get what they desired, which is actually what the Road to Ninja movie hinted at. It won't just be him that gets Rin, Kakashi will get what he wants, Minato and Kushina will get what they want, everyone's dream will be fulfilled and the world will be at peace. No one will die, no one will fight, no one will suffer. Everything will be happy.

If you compare Obito's goals to Sasori's you'll realize Sasori didn't have a goal. He killed to kill, he had no greater motive other than becoming the best puppet master ever.
Compared to Orochimaru's, Orochimaru wants to live forever to learn every jutsu possible, selfish and self centered. He's doing nothing for no one but himself. His actions lead to nothing but self fulfillment.
Compared to Sasuke, Sasuke 'thinks' he's totally going to restore the Uchiha name by slaughtering an entire village of people. Besides Obito, he's the only Uchiha left. Who is he really "restoring"? Himself, and only himself. Of course, it looks like he's going to change his mind soon, but either way, he wants nothing but to make himself feel better. Even after discovering most of the truth and why it happened that way, he still does what he wants to do to fulfill his own needs.
Compared to Nagato, pretty much exactly the same. There was a greater goal that he wanted to achieve, even if people died along the way.

We all know what Obito has done up to this point, and we aren't forgiving him of his past actions, but considering the fact that, above all else, he wants to make the entire world better *even though the way he's doing so is horrible*, it's still easier to sympathize with him compared to villains who have been selfish pretty much all the way up to their death. It's human nature to have empathy for someone who suffered so much, even though you might feel guilty for empathizing with a criminal, you can't deny the fact that if something horrible has happened to them that made them that way. They might not be as "evil" as one believes. Just mentally scarred.

Either way, Obito is on the other side. We know his story now, and it makes this battle just that much more difficult to swallow in my opinion.

QFTx1000. Sasuke is nothing compared to Obito. Sasuke, Oro, Sasori were all people who sought out selfish goals, whereas Obito & Nagato had the best of intentions at heart for the world but simply took the wrong methods in order to reach their goals. This makes them far more sympathetic as they believed they were doing the right thing for a lot of people, but simply misguided in their ways.

Quite honestly, I think we will at least have one more chapter of this flashback. Next chapter will cover what Obito's been doing up until the series started. The bloodline purge in Kiri, Obito spying on Kakashi and how disappointed he is at Kakashi becoming a shell of his former self, Obito attacking Konoha, and finally the Uchiha massacre.

Since most of these have already been shown before, each part will be done shortly, like small snippets.

Lastly, am I the only one thinking that Kakashi will actually join Obito in his cause as a plot twist?? think about it, Kakashi must be feeling as hopeless as Obito is right now and he 's probably thinking Obito's plan is the right way and not only that, it'll fulfill one of his wishes: to run away from his failures and consider it never happened. I'm sure Kakashi would also like to see Rin alive as well. So I'm betting Kakashi will be so jaded and disillusioned by the end of this flashback and join Obito.

[Don-kun]

@kirabook
Sorry, but Obito is a Villain is not the main hero of the story so he is bound to fail, so what happen next? How does he repay all what happen? All those people he killed, what he will do another jesucresto like what Nagato did with Konoha?
That's my main point, Obito only wanted to do this because Rin died after she die he refuse to accept reality and went to Madara to take on the Moon eye plan, he only thought about the plan when she died and start to remember all the thinks he was told by the Zetzu, so no there is no justification of his action, we see why he did it but is not something we will emphasize because his reason are selfish.

Obito wish was to return with Kakashi and Rin now that Rin is gone he wants to put everyone under a genjutsu to create peace but mostly to see Rin again, that alone make his motive selfish and stu***.

Like I said and I'm very sure when I said that because of Obito's parallel to Naruto is the why many are inclined to dismiss his actions and feel sorry for him forgetting that he is the founder of all evil in Naruto, was because of Obito releasing the 9 tails is why Konoha never trusted the Uchihas again.

[Nate River]

I think in the end, Nate, what Obito is doing is just because deep down he doesn't care what he does as long as he sees Rin again. And Madara used that to his advantage to make Obito do what he wanted, given he had a feeling something like this would happen. That's how I've seen it. In the end, I imagine Obito will be freaked out if he learns WHY Kakashi had to kill Rin. After all, Sasuke snapped when he learned about Itachi from Obito and didn't mellow out for the most part until Itachi told him the WHOLE story. So I'm sure Obito may be in the same boat.

If there're villains in Naruto not worth feeling pity for, it'd be Orochimaru and Madara so far. Obito is just someone being used by his pain, like he used Nagato for his goals.

Based on what Suigetsu said, I think Sasuke is probably headed toward a similar conclusion as Obito. The primary difference is that Sasuke will never get the same chance to leave as much blood in his wake. I added the caveat earlier because I think Sasuke is going to end up in similar place as Obito once he gets his answers. Straight revenge isn't the motivation anymore and Sasuke will need something that poses an active threat to people so Naruto's justifications for going after him don't evaporate.

Don't forget Danzou.

[Gravenimage]

Based on what Suigetsu said, I think Sasuke is probably headed toward a similar conclusion as Obito. The primary difference is that Sasuke will never get the same chance to leave as much blood in his wake. I added the caveat earlier because I think Sasuke is going to end up in similar place as Obito once he gets his answers. Straight revenge isn't the motivation anymore and Sasuke will need something that poses an active threat to people so Naruto's justifications for going after him don't evaporate.

Don't forget Danzou.

Who knows if in the end Sasuke ends up embracing Madara's logic of the moon's eye plan leading for Naruto to stop him.

[Paptala]

First of all, regardless of anything, I just want to say that the panels of Obito cradling Rin were beautiful.

I have to say that seeing your best friend (did he even consider Kakashi his best friend?) kill the girl you love is not as horrible as some other people's sob stories (like watching your brother slaughter your entire clan, or witnesses the death of your parents and best friend/replacement family), and that Obito became disillusioned all too quickly (it took Nagato years and multiple losses to get the point where he was at), but that does not change my opinion that Sasuke is not more sympathetic than Obito.

Obito is willing to kill whomever is necessary in order to create a dream world, because he was disillusioned by Rin's death at Kakashi's hands into thinking that reality is horrible, and that no one will ever be happy in this reality. He didn't have anyone to try and help him pick up the pieces or offer him solace afterwards - he was alone with his thoughts/beliefs and Zetsu.

Sasuke wants to kill a whole village of innocent people because they dare to be happy in the face of Itachi's sacrifice - basically, he wants to everyone to be as miserable as he is. He had plenty of people offering him love and affection and understanding for his pain and he turned his back on those offers time and time again.

Obito didn't push Sasuke into making the choices he did regarding Konoha - Obito picked him up, and told him the truth. Then Sasuke decided that he wanted to go after Konoha on his own. The only thing Obito had Sasuke do was hunt the hachibi, and that didn't result in any deaths at all (though certainly the intent was there).

I can't say I feel a huge amount of sympathy for Obito considering what other characters (such as Gaara) went through and overcame, but Sasuke is definitely not any more sympathetic just because he has a lesser body count.

Here's hoping that the flashbacks are over now - it seems that they might be.

Edited by Paptala, 17 October 2012 - 03:37 PM.

[Codus N]

Almost as bad as the ret-con on Kakashi's eyes last week. That was awful.

No one will die? Rin's already dead. Any "Rin" in his world will be an illusion. She still lost her life and mortality as a concept will not cease to exist because people are living in a dream. They themselves will eventually die even if they never percive those around them dying. At that's simply assuming what Obito says actually pans out they way he thinks. Communism's history is one of big promises of how equal we will all be only for reality to consistently inflict ungodly body counts on nations that employ it and all for a promise that never pans out.

That was not a retcon. Show me which chapter and page had Kakashi saying: "oh this, I awakened it while you were away training." No, what Kakashi said was "recently.... I developed a new jutsu." Now, see how different it is?? Kakashi said he developed it, not awakened it. It was a subtle hint from Kishi that Kakashi had it since a long time ago. Kakashi likely realized he awakened it and had it since a long time ago during the timeskip. He just didn't know when , since it's obvious he forgot that he killed Rin. That's why Kakashi said he developed it, not awakened it.

On the second point, I think you sort of miss her point. She was saying that in a genjutsu world, no one will die, and be alive. That's precisely what the Moon's eye plan is. That what the "good" part is. What I'm trying to say is, that (I think) she essentially agrees with you, just that she's explaining Obito's reasoning and why he thinks he's right.

Also, I think what he's saying about how he wants to create a world where "heroes don't make excuses over graves" may very well be true. So he's not doing this just for himself but also for Kakashi. I believe we'll be seeing Obito spying on Kakashi when he makes his daily visits to the memorial next chapter, to show that Kakashi is another part of his motivation.

That's what makes him a villain. He's being hypocritical. He wants to make himself feel better, but by creating war. It's not the ethical route; that's why he's a "bad guy".

I agree. While it's true that he certainly believes he has the best intentions at heart, like Nagato, he's just simply running away from reality. I sympathize with him because he has all these noble causes for a lot of people, yet he's simply misguided in his methods. That's what makes him a very sympathetic villain.

[Fenris]

Oh god when Obito was holding Rin... that was so freakin' sad.

[Codus N]

First of all, regardless of anything, I just want to say that the panels of Obito cradling Rin were beautiful.

Obito is willing to kill whomever is necessary in order to create a dream world, because he was disillusioned by Rin's death at Kakashi's hands into thinking that reality is horrible, and that no one will ever be happy in this reality. He didn't have anyone to try and help him pick up the pieces or offer him solace afterwards - he was alone with his thoughts/beliefs and Zetsu.

Sasuke wants to kill a whole village of innocent people because they dare to be happy in the face of Itachi's sacrifice - basically, he wants to everyone to be as miserable as he is. He had plenty of people offering him love and affection and understanding for his pain and he turned his back on those offers time and time again.

Obito didn't push Sasuke into making the choices he did regarding Konoha - Obito picked him up, and told him the truth. Then Sasuke decided that he wanted to go after Konoha on his own. The only thing Obito had Sasuke do was hunt the hachibi, and that didn't result in any deaths at all (though certainly the intent was there).

I can't say I feel a huge amount of sympathy for Obito considering what other characters (such as Gaara) went through and overcame, but Sasuke is definitely not any more sympathetic just because he has a lesser body count.

Here's hoping that the flashbacks are over now - it seems that they might be.

I believe Sasuke is less sympathetic because of precisely the reason I bolded in your post. Sasuke was given many chances to go back and accept the villagers' love but instead went on their backs and wants to murder them when they were simply trying to help him.

Obito, on the other hand, wasn't given any chances at going back because of circumstances. He could've returned to the village if he wanted to like Sasuke, but the point of his story is that nobody lent him a helping hand when he needed it most whereas Sasuke had more than enough. Had Kakashi learned he was alive, there would've been a chance for him to go back because Kakashi would be the only person to lend him a hand that he needed.

This is why he's a lot more sympathetic in my eyes.

I don't think the flashbacks are over. I think the last page hinted at showing Obito's actions up until the series began. My guess is, we'll see snippets of his trailblazing crimes next chapter and also him spying on Kakashi during one of his regular visits to the memorial. the scene with kakashi will probably demonstrate that Kakashi is also another big motivation for his plan.

[chouzu_tao]

I liked the chapter, more so than the other Obito flashbacks so far, well with the exception of the first Obito flashback where you see his relationship with Rin. My question is: After hearing about Madara's plan to have Nagato revive him... why doesn't he just say 'screw it' and have Nagato also revive Rin? Was it because he was too blind by grief to realize this, because Madara promised to bring her back in the Genjutsu world? Either way... after a while you gotta figure he'd be like... "Wait a minute, I don't want genjutsu Rin I want real Rin. Boom! Nagato, in order to bring about peace you must resurrect this girl." Done!

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Your reply does make sense but Obito's actions are pathetic, he has only become this way because Rin died same with Nagato is like they only have one person in the world that matters to them. Also where that places characters like Kakashi, Tsunade (in some ways), Naruto, Iruka, Shikamaru, Dariu, Sai, Asuma, Konohamaru, character who lost someone dear to them but never wished to kill thousands just because they were blinded by their dream, also remember that Obito planted a bomb on baby Naruto, help kill all the Uchihas, who knows if there were babies between them and all of that was because Rin died making him give up on reality.
Talk about a pathetic man, I might of liked Obito in Kakashi Gaiden, but I despise this Obito after looking and all the crap he has done plus all the reason of the evil stuff were because of him. Why? Because Rin Died.

Yeah, I agree with a lot of the folks who are finding it hard to sympathize with Obito. Even with Nagato, I can understand a bit more because not only did they take his parents away, but he had to survive with only two friends in the world in a war-torn impoverished country. He has plenty of reason to be angry. Obito seemingly comes from a well-do family with no real tragedies or struggles. So far his only reason for doing all of this is that his friend (I won't call him best friend because they weren't friends until the end) killed the girl he loves. But with that said I suppose his age should also be taken into consideration. Darn, I should keep it short, I always talk myself into self-contradiction. Even though the shinobi children are forced to grow up quickly, Obito was still a child, and a child who doesn't understand something and is extremely frustrated by it usually will react violently without proper guidance. While it took Nagato a very long time before he became a villain, he was aided by Jiraiya before being poisoned by Obito. Sasuke was able to withstand the darkness for a bit with the help of team 7 before Orochimaru poisoned him. Naruto probably would've become Menma had it not been for Iruka and Team 7. Obito had Madara from the get-go after his tragic event.

Stupid self-contradicting rants.

Also, of these to similar ones which one is greater than the other? > or > ?

Edited the quote didn't copy.

Edited by chouzu_tao, 17 October 2012 - 04:01 PM.

[harry4e]

Wow...Ive never liked Sasuke but I could understand why he took the path he did, I don't like Orichimaru but even his history you could sort of understand where he went wrong but Obito? two months ago if I was asked for my list of top ten favourite charactors in Naruto he'd make the list somewhere, ask me today after I read this week, and he'd be on the top of the kitten list, He killed hundred of people because the girl he liked (but never even had the gutsto confess to) died, Not because his entire clan was destroyed and he was forced to witness it, not because he was hated by the village for something he had no control over, not because he was kicked out of his clan because they disagreed with him...he helped kill his entire clan, he killed his sensie's wife, forced Minato to sacrifice himself in the hope his son will defeat Obito, He amassed an army of thousands and went to war with the world killing thousands because of a girl...I hope he dies a slow painful pathetic death worthy of only the lowest form of life on the planet.

If there is one person in the Manga not worthy of redemption it's this guy...I seriously hope Kishi does not still plan to have him saved...he doesn't deserve it on bit. Even Sasuke is more worthy of redemption more than Obito, atleast you can understand why Sasuke is so messed up, he witnessed his entire clan dying in Itachi's Genjutsu, that's not something an eight year old could forget, Obito wants to burn the world just so he can live a happy life in a genjutsu...sad and pathetic.

[Codus N]

I liked the chapter, more so than the other Obito flashbacks so far, well with the exception of the first Obito flashback where you see his relationship with Rin. My question is: After hearing about Madara's plan to have Nagato revive him... why doesn't he just say 'screw it' and have Nagato also revive Rin? Was it because he was too blind by grief to realize this, because Madara promised to bring her back in the Genjutsu world? Either way... after a while you gotta figure he'd be like... "Wait a minute, I don't want genjutsu Rin I want real Rin. Boom! Nagato, in order to bring about peace you must resurrect this girl." Done!

Obito had Madara from the get-go after his tragic event.

Edited the quote didn't copy.

Actually, I've posted a theory from another source a while back that Obito's aim with the Rinne Tensei was for Rin, not Madara. Hence why he hesitated on giving answers to Madara when they met again. Like you said, it was probably because he was blinded by grief that he didn't realize he could just screw Madara's plans. But it wasn't until he grew and matured that he decided just that. The grief probably faded away mostly with time, and was replaced with indifference. Thanks to having a cooler head, he decided to modify his plan.

On the next point, read my previous post above. Nagato is probably the most sympathetic villain the series had to offer, but Obito fits right in the middle, IMO.