I loooved the hype that came around the mysterious masked man. It was really fun to speculate and experience :^)
Naruto Villains Discusion
#21
Posted 13 August 2017 - 05:28 PM
#22
Posted 14 August 2017 - 09:37 PM
I think there were some potential good villains with the edo tensei, but they kinda got ruined by ether turning out to be good, reformed good or just didn't last long enough to make a lasting impact.
Sadly, the final villains consist 1/3-1/4 of the story. That's enough to ruin the momentum.
Through granted with Madara at least had been built up as menacing presences due Obito pretending to be him and all the mystic around him, sadly that was ruined when he was replaced by black zetsu and kaguya.
#23
Posted 16 August 2017 - 09:46 AM
Edited by Wyle23, 16 August 2017 - 09:48 AM.
#24
Posted 19 September 2017 - 06:52 AM
These were THE legends of Naruto and my 3 most favorite villains.
Orochimaru: He was a sinister snake and the embodiment of pure evil. He tried to take Sasuke's body, almost destroyed the Hidden Leaf, and was responsible for the death of the 3rd Hokage. It was clear Kishimoto didn't know what to do with him in Part 2 Naruto so he had Sasuke kill him. He should've stayed dead because he's become a joke now.
Pain: He was the literal "God" of the Naruto universe at that point. He was the leader of the Akatsuki, killed Jiraiya, killed Kakashi, and nuked the Hidden Leaf. He was the perfect final fight for Naruto. *sigh*
Madara: The main reason I came back and stayed for the 4th Ninja Arc. He was hyped since we saw his statue at the Final Valley. The 9 tails mentioned how Sasuke resembled Madara from the Elder Days. The masked man went around using the name "Madara": We've been hearing the name for hundreds of chapters and his reveal did not disappoint. The only person to wound Naruto and Sasuke fatally and make a trash arc bearable. As a reward he was thrown in the dumpster...
As for the worst villains: Obito (total whiny disappointment), Zetsu (black blob program file). Oh yea and Kaguya, Do I really need to say it? Worst pullout I've ever seen in the name of a movie and part 3 series.
Naruto on Obito: "He was the COOLEST guy..." (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
#25
Posted 19 September 2017 - 01:56 PM
These were THE legends of Naruto and my 3 most favorite villains.
Orochimaru: He was a sinister snake and the embodiment of pure evil. He tried to take Sasuke's body, almost destroyed the Hidden Leaf, and was responsible for the death of the 3rd Hokage. It was clear Kishimoto didn't know what to do with him in Part 2 Naruto so he had Sasuke kill him. He should've stayed dead because he's become a joke now.
Pain: He was the literal "God" of the Naruto universe at that point. He was the leader of the Akatsuki, killed Jiraiya, killed Kakashi, and nuked the Hidden Leaf. He was the perfect final fight for Naruto. *sigh*
Madara: The main reason I came back and stayed for the 4th Ninja Arc. He was hyped since we saw his statue at the Final Valley. The 9 tails mentioned how Sasuke resembled Madara from the Elder Days. The masked man went around using the name "Madara": We've been hearing the name for hundreds of chapters and his reveal did not disappoint. The only person to wound Naruto and Sasuke fatally and make a trash arc bearable. As a reward he was thrown in the dumpster...
As for the worst villains: Obito (total whiny disappointment), Zetsu (black blob program file). Oh yea and Kaguya, Do I really need to say it? Worst pullout I've ever seen in the name of a movie and part 3 series.
Well we all know why Kaguya was made.
#26
Posted 19 September 2017 - 02:34 PM
... to have a possible set up villian type for the new generation?
#27
Posted 19 September 2017 - 02:42 PM
... to have a possible set up villian type for the new generation?
Thing is there was no need for a next generation it asll ended with peace but look at Bolt still bad guys around, so much for Naruto doing his job.
At least other shows and stories know that peace is a thing that can't reallyu happen,
#28
Posted 19 September 2017 - 04:33 PM
That is the thing though, we know true peace is not a thing, and Kishimoto doesn't offer an answer to achieving permanent peace. We do know though that they, including Naruto, have worked hard to make peace last with unity and cooperation, to their credit.
My problem with this was that the idea of Naruto finding the answer to peace in the SHINOBI world, in HIS world (not ours), was given so much emphasis that for him not really giving an answer and for Kishi to just sort of let this slide makes it seem like one of the huge failures of Naruto's character, at least for me. I absolutely cannot accept seeing flashbacks, like the particular one with Jiraiya, more than once depicting Naruto as being the key to this answer, only to be given only half the solution to the problem. Makes this part of the story seem incomplete.
#29
Posted 19 September 2017 - 08:22 PM
I get where you come from, but regardless of what world we talk about, perfect peace is impossible, because a human being in any world is fundamentally flawed.
That said, Naruto's resolution of cooperation and unity did have significant positive impacts, Konoha changed, Technology flourished, we have inter-nation marriages, nations working cooperatively together, no war at least up to the present. The brightness of Boruto you could say is the impacts of this. There are still missions, still work, because you can't just snap your fingers and have peace like that forever and forever. You are still going to have people that do bad things, realistically speaking, even in the quadrants of the Shinobi world.
Kishimoto does not chose to present an Utopia, instead putting in a realistic image. Perseverance of peace takes effort, it is not something you set up and are done with.
If perfect peace is impossible then why did Jiraiya and Nagato believe that Naruto could be the one to find an answer? Even if it's not the greatest one it would be something that works for his world since that is the task and role he's been given to accomplish and that's established in the story at the end of the Pain Arc. (I mean, we're also talking about a fictional story about people who can spit fireballs and poison out of their bodies here). And even if humans are flawed it's not like Naruto is any ordinary human...he's literally the reincarnation of a God (or God's son I suppose) and related to the sage of the six paths. If there's an exception to this rule it would be him. Saying that he doesn't need to provide an answer is like saying that Jesus Christ in Christianity shouldn't need to provide an answer to us humans since he, himself, was made a human according to the bible (I hate to bring up religion here but I can't deny the similarities lol).
Unless of course I'm supposed to assume that Naruto's answer is the same as Asura, that answer being love. But if it is, it's not clearly stated in the manga at any point that this is also Naruto's answer. In fact, it's not even shown how exactly he accomplished spreading love and bringing peace to the ninja world once the war is over. After all, as Obito/ Madara stated (I forget which) it was merely a temporary alliance.
In other words, why didn't we at least get to see this "effort" that Naruto made? Considering the importance of this particular theme, it seems strange that it would be left out. Feels like a cop out tbh.
Edited by Qia, 19 September 2017 - 08:24 PM.
#30
Posted 19 September 2017 - 09:44 PM
In other words, why didn't we at least get to see this "effort" that Naruto made? Considering the importance of this particular theme, it seems strange that it would be left out. Feels like a cop out tbh.
To me, it felt like Narutos' resolution to that was to make friends with everyone (or make everyone to make friends with everyone, in case of the Kages) and kill those who are not willing to follow after one of his "Talk no Jutsus".
However, this didn't seem to work on Nawaki (that was his name, wasn't it?).
#31
Posted 25 September 2017 - 11:19 PM
So given little we know of the new Boruto villain wannabe akatsuki group Kara, the only positive thing I can say about them at this moment of time is that they have a structure of an inner circle group who leads them and what appears to be an outer circle of field operatives. So there are more then just a few boss level villains, which was always a problem with akatsuki having just having the 10 members throughout most of part 2 given how little enemies for those not named Naruto or Sasuke to fight.
#32
Posted 01 October 2017 - 08:04 AM
Best/Favorite VIllain: Part 1 Orochimaru, Pain and Hidan
Least favorite: Kaguya, without a doubt
#33
Posted 14 October 2017 - 07:56 PM
Best/Favorite Villains:
Orochimaru (Part 1)
Gaara
Itachi (before the "I'm actually a good guy" pull)
Kisame, Deidara, Sasori, Kakuzu, and Hidan
Pain (at least before Talk no Jutsu)
Danzo
Madara
Least Favorite:
Sasuke
Obito
Black Zetsu
Kaguya.
#34
Posted 14 October 2017 - 08:30 PM
#35
Posted 15 October 2017 - 12:55 AM
Oh Orochimaru didn't get a redemption arc, BUT he's all chummy with Naruto now believe it or not!
#36
Posted 15 October 2017 - 02:50 AM
madara though i still think he was war party hardy first, philosophy later, still has the interesting past. i liked the story itachi told how he 'stole' his brothers eyes out of desperation to escape blindness because he was so desperate in his pitiful misery. pein still is better though because he's not an uchiha and is centered exclusively aroun the main titled character. he had a mystery too but it didn't involve uchiha (at the time) and looking back at it now i think it was freaking stupid how he just gave this random uzumaki kid his eyes and wait for him to grow up to use rinne tensei for him when he never met him black zetsu or not. too conviluted for its own good. its not clever, its just desperate to put the pieces together when they clearly don't fit. now like i said in another thread, you can take away the rinnegan, his PS, those meteors and he'd still be just as interesting. same goes for pein and his abilities because abilities weren't what made him great. it was their philosophies.
while we're on the uzumaki clan how dare kishi give sasuke all this info and he gets to see the sight? i mean come the freak on he doesn't even CARE. anyway
zabuza was a boss. haku was wise for his age and the fact he looked feminine didn't matter to me when i first saw him because his CHARACTER is what mattered.
gaara's fight with naruto in part 1 is my absolute favorite. the fact naruto transformed gamabunta into the nine tails was so freaking...not gonna say the "e" word because its so overused.
sasuke as a villain didn't work. i hated tobi as 'madara' and he was such a lame loser he tried so hard to be better than Nagato but just failed in every aspect.
as for kabuto, i had hopes for him and even wondered what his "old self" was back from the forest of death but i get some wash up crybaby who gets offed by a deus ex machina. thanks itachi.
speaking of itachi i liked him as a villain. remember his little ryhme about the mangekyou? "if you activate it, including me; the total of ms users will total 3." i was hoping that meant something but NOPE.
#37
Posted 15 October 2017 - 03:12 AM
Oh Orochimaru didn't get a redemption arc, BUT he's all chummy with Naruto now believe it or not!
Didn't he also like record/videotape a "congrats!" message for the wedding?
Naruto on Obito: "He was the COOLEST guy..." (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
#38
Posted 15 October 2017 - 05:06 AM
Danzō, Orochimaru, and Itachi were all heinous. I loved them as villains but hated them as characters (except Itachi). I really have a problem with how most of the villains get redemption arcs. I’m glad Orochimaru and Danzō didn’t get any. However, I hated how Itachi got one. He was cool, cunning, calculated. He didn’t play around. Then, we learn he was a good guy after all which kind of ruined it for me :/
As mentioned, Orochimaru didn't get any center-of-attention moment, but the fact that he remains free to do whatever he wants and even was stated to have succeeded in achieving immortality shows that he still got off easy.
Danzo wasn't too bad (in terms of character), but the main problem is that he was introduced quite late and then we barely got to see him until after Pein. I feel like if we got introduced to him during part one (like maybe after Itachi makes his little visit to Konoha) and he was a more constant presence, he could have been a lot more interesting as a villain given his extreme patriotism (I actually don't doubt that he loved Konoha. The problem is that he only loved Konoha, the village, itself and not the people, who are what actually make it great). Instead, in the end, it felt more like he was simply being used as an excuse to "justify" Sasuke's behavior.
madara though i still think he was war party hardy first, philosophy later, still has the interesting past. i liked the story itachi told how he 'stole' his brothers eyes out of desperation to escape blindness because he was so desperate in his pitiful misery. pein still is better though because he's not an uchiha and is centered exclusively aroun the main titled character. he had a mystery too but it didn't involve uchiha (at the time) and looking back at it now i think it was freaking stupid how he just gave this random uzumaki kid his eyes and wait for him to grow up to use rinne tensei for him when he never met him black zetsu or not. too conviluted for its own good. its not clever, its just desperate to put the pieces together when they clearly don't fit. now like i said in another thread, you can take away the rinnegan, his PS, those meteors and he'd still be just as interesting. same goes for pein and his abilities because abilities weren't what made him great. it was their philosophies.
while we're on the uzumaki clan how dare kishi give sasuke all this info and he gets to see the sight? i mean come the freak on he doesn't even CARE. anyway
zabuza was a boss. haku was wise for his age and the fact he looked feminine didn't matter to me when i first saw him because his CHARACTER is what mattered.
gaara's fight with naruto in part 1 is my absolute favorite. the fact naruto transformed gamabunta into the nine tails was so freaking...not gonna say the "e" word because its so overused.
sasuke as a villain didn't work. i hated tobi as 'madara' and he was such a lame loser he tried so hard to be better than Nagato but just failed in every aspect.
as for kabuto, i had hopes for him and even wondered what his "old self" was back from the forest of death but i get some wash up crybaby who gets offed by a deus ex machina. thanks itachi.
speaking of itachi i liked him as a villain. remember his little ryhme about the mangekyou? "if you activate it, including me; the total of ms users will total 3." i was hoping that meant something but NOPE.
Yeah, with the way Madara was talked about (and a bunch of the earlier flashbacks showing him WITHOUT using the Mangekyo, much less Eternal Mangekyo, Sharingan, and much less the Rinnegan, as well as Hashirama WITHOUT some magic Sage Mode, since they were being handed around like candy by the end) and built-up, along with Itachi being called "the second coming of Madara", they made it seem like he was someone who was, even without the Sharingan, EXTREMELY skilled. And we even got a showcase of how powerful he was with just the normal Sharingan initially before they just rushed him into the Eternal Mangekyo and then the Rinnegan. Then it just felt like a lot of his power was coming from the Rinnegan and then Rikudo power more so than himself..
I didn't mind "Tobi" as "Madara" initially because it still had mystery around it, like how was he still "alive", or did he pull an Orochimaru and somehow transferred his soul into another body (like Obito's, Tobirama, Danzo, or whoever), but then after the Kage Summit...yeah...
#39
Posted 15 October 2017 - 10:01 AM
Didn't he also like record/videotape a "congrats!" message for the wedding?
EXACTLY.
#40
Posted 15 October 2017 - 05:28 PM
He got a redemption, without a redemption arc. Classy, even for Kishi.Oh Orochimaru didn't get a redemption arc, BUT he's all chummy with Naruto now believe it or not!
Edited by sushi., 15 October 2017 - 05:29 PM.
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