31 replies to this topic

[Tiller]

We had faith in Kishimoto as a creator. That was our biggest problem. As far as what's wrong with Kishimoto it's obvious now that this stupid story was altered depending on what Kishimoto thought was popular at any given time.

 

It explains why things went downhill so fast after his first editor left. Kishimoto simply isn't that talented without a guiding hand to control him.

[James S Cassidy]

We had faith in Kishimoto as a creator. That was our biggest problem. As far as what's wrong with Kishimoto it's obvious now that this stupid story was altered depending on what Kishimoto thought was popular at any given time.

 

It explains why things went downhill so fast after his first editor left. Kishimoto simply isn't that talented without a guiding hand to control him.

Talented artist and character creator, but not good at story telling without a hand hold. Which makes me even more willing to believe that the whole "NH was planned from the start" will always be complete bull. SP made NH and Kishimoto just followed through without care.

Sometimes I think maybe he wanted to ruin it on purpose just to get out of the game.

[rikakim94]

Do you guys think kishi really deserve the death of an author trope? I think he does because never in my life of all the animes,tv series.mangas/books I,ve seen and read reconnected itself at the last minute of that said franchise. 

[Tiller]

Do you guys think kishi really deserve the death of an author trope? I think he does because never in my life of all the animes,tv series.mangas/books I,ve seen and read reconnected itself at the last minute of that said franchise. 

I'm not sure. I don't follow post modernism.

[ns.Believe.It]

Talented artist and character creator, but not good at story telling without a hand hold. Which makes me even more willing to believe that the whole "NH was planned from the start" will always be complete bull. SP made NH and Kishimoto just followed through without care.

I really really doubt if SP had the interest or even the power to decide end game pairings. Why blame SP for Kishimoto's decisions ? SP are just animators who work on the story that is given to them. 

 

Another strong reason why I refrain from putting any blame on SP is because of their history. If we are to believe that SP wanted and bullied Kishi into making NH canon, surely the anime would have had episodes and moments dedicated to NH...?

 

But that has never been the case ! Sure, I have seen them putting Hinata on a pedestal BUT I have rarely seen them dedicating filler moments for NaruHina. Its in fact the opposite, majority of their fillers actually support NS. 

 

I cannot believe, for one second, that SP would say 'NO' to animating a NS romance movie if Kishimoto had chosen NS as endgame. SP have never been one to shy away from highlighting the NS bond. 

Edited by ns.Believe.It, 21 December 2014 - 06:45 AM.

[ThroughWithLove]

Very true. Hinata gets a lot of focus in filler, but we did get plenty of NS filler, such as Sakura getting really jealous when Naruto was kissing that filler villain!

[ns.Believe.It]

Very true. Hinata gets a lot of focus in filler, but we did get plenty of NS filler, such as Sakura getting really jealous when Naruto was kissing that filler villain!

Exactly ! 

 

You know what, I refuse to blame SP for this ending. I was skimming along the Shippuden episode list and I was reminded of one very important thing-- SP have given many many moments for NS in almost every filler arc.

 

Its true that they over-exaggerate Hinata but they rarely did episodes dedicated to NH. And SS... its pretty clear SP weren't the biggest fans of that garbage pairing. In the last couple of years they have underplayed NH moments( 631) , ignored SS completely while at the same time emphasized NS more and more.

 

The very recent Mecha-Naruto filler comes to mind. That 'Sakura-flower' scene was done so romantic  

 

The movie has been production from two years before and its safe to say SP knew all along which pairings would become canon. Despite this they did not give anything for NH/SS, instead they chose to highlight more and more of Naruto and Sakura's wonderful bond. What does that tell you? It tells me they like NS more than NH/SS. 

 

While I was looking at the episode list, memories of all those NS fillers came to me.

 

Remember the Sora arc where Naruto and Sakura protect each other without worrying about their own lives?

Remember the food pills, the notes that Sakura wrote for Naruto and Naruto holding those notes close to his heart ?

Remember Sakura and Sai's conversation about Naruto during the RasenShuriken training? 

Remember Sai's words-'' Sakura, you are always worried about Naruto arent you? '' in the four-tails arc? Hinata was in that arc and her understanding of Naruto was used as a comedy while Sakura was shown to really understand and care about Naruto.

Remember all those fillers after Pein arc with Naruto and Sakura walking around the village and Sakura giving that special smile of hers for Naruto when he ran off to help rebuild Ichiraku's ?

 

I could go on and on and on because SP gave us so many sweet moments. I can't not acknowledge this.

 

Remember Sakura's 'I couldn't kill the guy I used to love'? And even more importantly, remember Naruto Shippuden episode 235? That single most beautiful episode which captured the very essence of Naruto's selfless love for Sakura? 

 

Studio Pierott understood and acknowledged Naruto's feelings better than Masashi Kishimoto himself. They understood what was better for Sakura. They have never, till now , undermined the NS bond unlike a certain mangaka. And because of this, I find myself respecting SP more than I respect Kishimoto.

[rocci]

Talented artist and character creator, but not good at story telling without a hand hold. Which makes me even more willing to believe that the whole "NH was planned from the start" will always be complete bull. SP made NH and Kishimoto just followed through without care.

Sometimes I think maybe he wanted to ruin it on purpose just to get out of the game.

He's bad at character creation.

[Nar123]

Exactly ! 
 
You know what, I refuse to blame SP for this ending. I was skimming along the Shippuden episode list and I was reminded of one very important thing-- SP have given many many moments for NS in almost every filler arc.
 
Its true that they over-exaggerate Hinata but they rarely did episodes dedicated to NH. And SS... its pretty clear SP weren't the biggest fans of that garbage pairing. In the last couple of years they have underplayed NH moments( 631) , ignored SS completely while at the same time emphasized NS more and more.
 
The very recent Mecha-Naruto filler comes to mind. That 'Sakura-flower' scene was done so romantic  
 
The movie has been production from two years before and its safe to say SP knew all along which pairings would become canon. Despite this they did not give anything for NH/SS, instead they chose to highlight more and more of Naruto and Sakura's wonderful bond. What does that tell you? It tells me they like NS more than NH/SS. 
 
While I was looking at the episode list, memories of all those NS fillers came to me.
 
Remember the Sora arc where Naruto and Sakura protect each other without worrying about their own lives?
Remember the food pills, the notes that Sakura wrote for Naruto and Naruto holding those notes close to his heart ?
Remember Sakura and Sai's conversation about Naruto during the RasenShuriken training? 
Remember Sai's words-'' Sakura, you are always worried about Naruto arent you? '' in the four-tails arc? Hinata was in that arc and her understanding of Naruto was used as a comedy while Sakura was shown to really understand and care about Naruto.
Remember all those fillers after Pein arc with Naruto and Sakura walking around the village and Sakura giving that special smile of hers for Naruto when he ran off to help rebuild Ichiraku's ?
 
I could go on and on and on because SP gave us so many sweet moments. I can't not acknowledge this.
 
Remember Sakura's 'I couldn't kill the guy I used to love'? And even more importantly, remember Naruto Shippuden episode 235? That single most beautiful episode which captured the very essence of Naruto's selfless love for Sakura? 
 
Studio Pierott understood and acknowledged Naruto's feelings better than Masashi Kishimoto himself. They understood what was better for Sakura. They have never, till now , undermined the NS bond unlike a certain mangaka. And because of this, I find myself respecting SP more than I respect Kishimoto.

I still can't respect SP for their Hinata worship and bias ( episode of her confession for example).
But yeah, ultimately kishi is the one at fault

[Jenskott]

 

 

I talked this over with Ramen sometime ago and he said that it is not possible for shonen to force some manga writer into their ending. Especially when its a very very popular manga writer. Even Ramen had considered this possibility. But he said that famous manga writers cannot be forced to write an ending based on how others want. Shonen jumo cannot do that. He better illustrated his point saying that there was this one manga which was put on hold just because its writer was addicted to video games. Sj could do nothing until the writer himself wanted it....so.... 

 

I do not know about Shonen Jump editors but Shonen Sunday (another manga magazine published by Shogakukan editorial. SJW is published by Sueisha) editors have indeed forced at least a mangaka to change his/her story. Rumkiko Takahashi's (creator of Inu Yasha, Ranma 1/2, Maison Ikkoku, Urusei Yatsura, Rin-Ne...) editor forced her to change Urusei Yatsura's official couple. Later editors intended to force her to change her stories' official couples but for that point Takahashi was already successful enough to say "No".

 

Anyway I am not sure of how much I believe your friend's story. Everything that I have previously read about the subject states that editors have plenty control. Thery certainly will demand that the mangaka behaves like a professional and makes his/her work, and in some instances an editor and a mangaka have locked themselves into a hotel room so that the former can force the latter to meet his/her deadline.

 

A writer putting his work on hold because he is too busy playing games? I'm sorry, unless I see proof, I am not buying it.

[ThroughWithLove]

 

I do not know about Shonen Jump editors but Shonen Sunday (another manga magazine published by Shogakukan editorial. SJW is published by Sueisha) editors have indeed forced at least a mangaka to change his/her story. Rumkiko Takahashi's (creator of Inu Yasha, Ranma 1/2, Maison Ikkoku, Urusei Yatsura, Rin-Ne...) editor forced her to change Urusei Yatsura's official couple. Later editors intended to force her to change her stories' official couples but for that point Takahashi was already successful enough to say "No".

 

Anyway I am not sure of how much I believe your friend's story. Everything that I have previously read about the subject states that editors have plenty control. Thery certainly will demand that the mangaka behaves like a professional and makes his/her work, and in some instances an editor and a mangaka have locked themselves into a hotel room so that the former can force the latter to meet his/her deadline.

 

A writer putting his work on hold because he is too busy playing games? I'm sorry, unless I see proof, I am not buying it.

 

I believe it. A great example is the manga Berserk. It has only 340 chapters, but has been going on for like 20 years now even though each chapter is maybe 30 pages at best. Thing is, the author is pretty much a manga king in Japan, so they cut him slack and let him release the manga at whatever pace he wants. Same seems to be the case for the manga known as Liar Game, which is only 198 chapters at the moment, but has already been through 6 extended hiatuses. When your series is popular enough, you get to do whatever you want. If Eichiro Oda wanted to, he could immediately take a 6 month break on One Piece and no one would be able to say anything about it.

Edited by ThroughWithLove, 21 December 2014 - 06:02 PM.

[narusaku256]

 
I do not know about Shonen Jump editors but Shonen Sunday (another manga magazine published by Shogakukan editorial. SJW is published by Sueisha) editors have indeed forced at least a mangaka to change his/her story. Rumkiko Takahashi's (creator of Inu Yasha, Ranma 1/2, Maison Ikkoku, Urusei Yatsura, Rin-Ne...) editor forced her to change Urusei Yatsura's official couple. Later editors intended to force her to change her stories' official couples but for that point Takahashi was already successful enough to say "No".
 
Anyway I am not sure of how much I believe your friend's story. Everything that I have previously read about the subject states that editors have plenty control. Thery certainly will demand that the mangaka behaves like a professional and makes his/her work, and in some instances an editor and a mangaka have locked themselves into a hotel room so that the former can force the latter to meet his/her deadline.
 
A writer putting his work on hold because he is too busy playing games? I'm sorry, unless I see proof, I am not buying it.

Sure dude Its upto you whether you want to believe it or not. But the guy whom I discussed this with is a very very very trustworthy and reliable guy. So I can'y really defy his word and debunking it out of story. This guy knows a lot more about manga than we do. So I trust him To each their own, brother And I guess....it was the same Berserk manga @ThroughWithLove was talking about. I'll post a link...just a sec..

Edit: Here's the link - http://www.narusaku....c=14325&&page=6

Annnndddd.....the manga it seems is Hunter x Hunter and not Berserk XD

Edited by narusaku256, 21 December 2014 - 08:01 PM.