28 replies to this topic

[Broken Figurine]

My professor once pointed out that in communities where there are staunch anti-gay feelings, who would choose to be treated like a second-class citizen? Who would choose to be bullied and ostracized? Gay teen males have startling suicide rates. It's not something that is treated like a preference for cake over donuts. A lot of closeted members of the LGBTQ would live to heterosexual standards; getting married to the opposite sex, living their lives subscribing to gender norms, etc. They do it, but they're not being honest--it's what society drives them to do and it has far reaching consequences for everyone involved. 

 

To an extent, you are born with your orientation and gender identity. There are studies that back it up, and various tests and scales that have tried to standardize these two things. They have to do with hormones and brain development; the hippocampus of most queer men are smaller than women. The performance for bisexuals, interestingly enough, when it comes to cognitive tasks falls between average male and female marks but have superior line and spacing discrimination? So, there are studies to back it up it's more than just 'choice' and a 'deviant lifestyle'. In academics it's generally accepted that yes, gender and orientation are more complex than we've once understood it. 

 

Speaking personally, I have been bi since I can remember. When I was young it was hard to define, because as a child you're not thinking about relationship and 'who you like' but ever since those thoughts started, I realized that it wasn't just boys I had feelings for or could see myself marrying. The only real conscious decision I made, when I was a teenager, was that I was going to accept that part of myself. It certainly is fluid too--for whatever reason, lately I've been leaning more toward women. I dunno why, I didn't sit down and decide "okay, I liked them equally before but now I'll be paying attention to women and wanting a girlfriend more." 

 

It doesn't define us, and people handle their sexuality in different respects. It is however a big part of some people, especially during puberty and those years in life where we're trying to find intimacy. A lot of people dream of love, romance, and have fantasies that satisfy them in whatever way. To feel guilty, or be in fear of your life over those things that should be personal and precious is really sad. 

[Kyuudaime]

My professor once pointed out that in communities where there are staunch anti-gay feelings, who would choose to be treated like a second-class citizen? Who would choose to be bullied and ostracized? Gay teen males have startling suicide rates. It's not something that is treated like a preference for cake over donuts. A lot of closeted members of the LGBTQ would live to heterosexual standards; getting married to the opposite sex, living their lives subscribing to gender norms, etc. They do it, but they're not being honest--it's what society drives them to do and it has far reaching consequences for everyone involved. 

 Broken Figurine beat me to it. Imagine how it was handled centuries ago too by certain groups, I can't see anyone choosing to live a life styles like that knowing they'd probably get killed over it.

[sushi.]

 

I'm not making it up. I have a lesbian friend who got sexually abused by her ex-boyfriend. You think I would bring this point up out of nowhere without prior experience? If you don't think it would happen to you it doesn't mean it won't happen to others.

 

And of course I know choice doesn't exactly mean not born that way. I am just trying to answer the OP's question which is whether homosexuality is innate or not.

How could I know of your lesbian friend? You didn't mention her. Was I supposed to guess? You said a traumatic experience can trigger a change in orientation, but your example doesn't hold ground. I don't know the details about your friend, but many gays have been with a different gender before finding out they like the same. Then there are those who are attracted to both.

 

I misunderstood your definition of 'choice'. Of course I did. There is no 'choice as in not born that way'. I scratched my head while reading it because the word has no such meaning, not even close. You should've used the word 'innate' instead, like you did now.

Edited by sushi., 07 June 2014 - 02:17 PM.

[KonaKonaFan]

It might be a little rude, but it's true. In Washington D.C I was taking a photo of one of the attractions (I believe it was the Lincoln Memorial) I lost balance, tripped, and accidentally collided into a guy. I faced him, said I was sorry. He snorted meanly and glared at me and said "Never...EVER touch me again."  

 

I didn't say they're all bad, but the ones I've run across give the others a bad name. First impressions last the longest after all.

 

I've had encounters with homos at work and touring around other places. I've been around enough to make an assumption I think.

AAAAALRIGHT

 

1. You just met this guy, how do you know he was gay?

 

2. As others have pointed out, your experiences with gay people, or apparently people you assume to be gay? Don't paint an entire group of people.

 

3. "Homos"? Seriously? 

 

4. No one has been around long enough to make those kind of assumptions, bud.

 

@Darth Krypt Perhaps she's bi?

 

EDIT: Guess I haven't answered the topic question.... I obviously do not believe it's a choice. 

Edited by KonaKonaFan, 07 June 2014 - 01:46 PM.

[Shadow Wolf]

Everybody is different. I have a few gay friends and all of them have different circumstances and events. I can't say if soneone is born this way or if they choose to be (after all, I have heard that some people do have biological differences and similar reports/aricles related to this). In this case, I just think this way: We all want happiness, so we will do what makes us happy a long as we do not harm or disrespect someone else. In my case I want to be happy with a girl/woman, but if one of my friends finds happiness with a person of the same sex, or if anyone else, really, then who am I to judge them or to question them. After all, no matter the "how" (again, as long as this how supports respect and freedom) we are seeking the same thing: happiness.

So to answer the question: Again, different scenarios and circumstances, so some may be by choice and some may be by biological structures.

Edited by Shadow Wolf, 08 June 2014 - 01:57 PM.

[Jenskott]

It is funny. Up to few years ago I used to think that saying homosexuality was a choice was offensive to homosexual people. I do not remember why I thought that.

 

Anyway, I have not read the thread -and I hope that the discussion has not gotten nasty-, and I did not plan on replying for fear of getting mixed into a possible flame war, but only in case I think I should tell this:

 

I am born and raised Catholic. All of my relatives are Catholic and my -late and dear- uncle was a priest. Since I was a child, all of them have always told me whatever two mutually consenting adults do is their bussiness. No one has ever told me, suggested or implied that being homosexual is sinful or wrong. No catholic I personally know thinks that it is sinful or wrong. I live in a Catholic country, and although no everybody agree with that mindset, the great majority of people -including me, in case of it is not obvious- thinks that there is nothing wrong with being homosexual.

 

And that is all what I will tell about the subject.

[Dalton.T.R]

AAAAALRIGHT

 

1. You just met this guy, how do you know he was gay?

 

2. As others have pointed out, your experiences with gay people, or apparently people you assume to be gay? Don't paint an entire group of people.

 

3. "Homos"? Seriously? 

 

4. No one has been around long enough to make those kind of assumptions, bud.

 

@Darth Krypt Perhaps she's bi?

 

EDIT: Guess I haven't answered the topic question.... I obviously do not believe it's a choice. 

1-2: pretty sure a guy wearing women's clothing and talking in the 'gay' voice means he's probably a homosexual

 

3: What? kitten: Short for Homosexual. don't like it? Too bad.

 

4: When you meet all kinds of people in your line of work, you get an idea of who are the nice people, and who are the mean people Gays have come off as the rudest people I've met. First impressions are the ones that last to a person, and frankly, I don't like gays anyway. 

[sushi.]

Night Hawk: I'm quite speechless tbh. I don't know what to say to an intentional bigot. There is no hope for you. I can completely understand why they are rude to you. So you can be homophobic all you want, but please keep quiet about it. Keep it your darkest secret.

shh

[Nate River]

I can see where this is headed.

Thread closed.