92 replies to this topic

[Dragunov]

I WILL GO DOWN WITH THIS SHIP. THAT IS ALL.

[Don-kun]

NaruSaku all the way, I cannot stand the other two mostly because of the Emo guy and the fans.

[TerrorKing]

I would have to say hardcore. Not because I don't want to take into consideration that some other pairing might happen instead, but because not only is NS the only pairing that I currently ship seriously, it's also the only pairing that I've ever felt really passionate about. Furthermore, if NS didn't happen, Naruto would pretty much be ruined for me. I know that romance isn't the focus of the story and there are other aspects of the story that I find just as interesting, but still if for some reason NS doesn't become canon it would just feel so...wrong like...what was the point of all that mutual development and all those parallels to JiraTsu and MinaKushi then?

[James S Cassidy]

From what I've seen in other fandoms, the moderate shippers will stop coming before long and get caught up in their next fandom, losing interest in Naruto- "it's over, why bothering hanging out in a fandom forum for something like that, _____ is more interesting anyways". The more enthusiastic fans will stay and keep talking about the story, writing fanfic, doing fanart, etc... about what happened afterward, etc...continued

I am going to say this cause this is a harsh truth. The bashers and the nay-sayers keep things interesting. Without them, we wouldn't be thinking as deeply as we do about our pairing choice. As much as an annoyance as they can be from time to time, they keep us thinking and reevaluating our choices. Someone even push the reason why we like the pairing in the first place and some are so weak in believing that they lose faith in the pairing when any problem occurs. For most of us, we keep our faith because instead of deterring us, they make us even more passionate about the pairing.

So, in reality, we need these nay-sayers to be there because we need to prove to ourselves that this pairing is right. Not just try to prove it to them. Maybe this is why I argue with nay-sayers from time to time. It helps me realize truths and support my couple even more. If we win or lose, you're right the lesser fans will leave immediately due to them finding a new cause to fight for. Fans like me, will stay because it's not just the pairing, it's the people.

I want to say that the people who lose faith because "There are no NaruSaku moments lately" is such a sad sight to see. It's not wrong, but it's sad that their commitment is so weak that they need support every now and then just to stay a float. Makes me wonder what they are really passionate about that has the same withdrawls. I have seen SasuSaku fans be more passionate and they have less to work off of.

I am remembering the Halo websites that I used to visit. When Halo 3 and ODST ended, we believed this was the end and site died down for a while. A lot of members stopped coming. Then Halo 4 was announced and now the whole site is a buzz again and since there is going to be a new Halo trilogy, I am going to assume the site will be active for another ten years. The same could happen here with new Naruto content or it will jsut be a site for us OGs to come and discuss even more.

I'm not going around bashing Martha just because I liked Rose and the Doctor better, and I'm not bashing Rose because I like Donna and the 10th Doctor most of all, even more than the 9th Doctor and Rose ( Donna and the 10th Doctor are hysterically funny together- even though they are both studiously avoiding falling in love with each other because they both have had the recent painful experience of losing a person they loved, they are determined to just be good friends. But there's a vibe on both sides that it's more than just friendship. Rose and the 9th Doctor really felt romantic.)

I actually don't like River Song. Something about her just....doesn't sit right. And most of the Doctor Who fandom seems to hate her as well. I mean really hate her. I liked Amy and Rose better because while Rose was kind of ditzy, she was the heart. And Amy, well I loved her cause she was a well rounded character.

Imagine if we had Amy Pond and David Tennant Doctor together. XD The most favorite doctor with the most favorite assistant...well at least with the newer generation.

[harry4e]

I'd say i'm somewhere between Moderate and Hardcore. Maybe slowly creeping more towards moderate....the lack of NaruSaku interaction in the past four years, Since the invasion you can probably count the moments of relevence between the two on one hand.

[God of All Shinobi]

I'm very moderate, I used to love Sakura and after I saw the horrible things some of Hinata's fan said about her, I grew to hate Hinata's fandom, and when I realized Hinata has done very little compared to Sakura, I really got mad. I liked putting NAruto and sakura together because I want Naruto to get what he worked for, when Jiraiya gave his dying words and reflected on how Tsuande rejected him, and that really moved me and turned me to the NAruSaku fandom. As you can guess J man was my fav char, and Pain is the next.

[desaix]

Not really sure what you'd call me. I'm not extremely passionate about it -- certainly not enough to try and argue it out in debate threads or anything like that -- but at the same time NaruSaku fanfiction and the possibility of NaruSaku still happening is pretty much the only thing holding me into the series during what I feel is the current long dry-spell of interesting material in canon (I've been disappointed in Part 2 as a whole; most of the fanfics I read are either Part 1 rewrites\time travel fics or start roughly around the time of Naruto's return to the village, or Sai's introduction at the latest. Or are set post-war, without any major story-relevance to the more recent manga arcs). If NaruSaku failed in the manga, I'd almost certainly stop reading it, and probably stop reading Naruto fanfiction, but I wouldn't moan and cry and write angry letters about it.

Edited by desaix, 04 June 2012 - 11:06 PM.

[kidNinja]

I'm very moderate, I used to love Sakura and after I saw the horrible things some of Hinata's fan said about her, I grew to hate Hinata's fandom, and when I realized Hinata has done very little compared to Sakura, I really got mad. I liked putting NAruto and sakura together because I want Naruto to get what he worked for, when Jiraiya gave his dying words and reflected on how Tsuande rejected him, and that really moved me and turned me to the NAruSaku fandom. As you can guess J man was my fav char, and Pain is the next.

I think what's worse, is that she returned his feelings right before he left to fight Pain. I think he was going to ask her to marry him, she was about to say something, most likely her saying that she loved him but he cut her off and left. It was quite tragic.

[ciardha]

I am going to say this cause this is a harsh truth. The bashers and the nay-sayers keep things interesting. Without them, we wouldn't be thinking as deeply as we do about our pairing choice. As much as an annoyance as they can be from time to time, they keep us thinking and reevaluating our choices. Someone even push the reason why we like the pairing in the first place and some are so weak in believing that they lose faith in the pairing when any problem occurs. For most of us, we keep our faith because instead of deterring us, they make us even more passionate about the pairing.

So, in reality, we need these nay-sayers to be there because we need to prove to ourselves that this pairing is right.

Maybe you need it, but I don't. To me it majorly takes away of the joy in the fandom and the shipping.

Also you've grown up with that being the only kind of fandom you've experienced. This kind of rabid hatred directed at the main female character just did not happen in fandoms before the late 1990's. It made for a much more happy fandom experience. There was a bit of minor back and forth between shipping factions in the early 1990's, like in the Ranma 1/2 fandom and even Marvel and DC comic fandoms. It seemed a bit annoying at the time but it was so much more low key than what emerged in fandoms across the board around 1998. Also the male characters were usually criticized just as much as the female characters. I remember in Ranma 1/2 fandom in the early-mid 90's it was all- Shampoo is sexier and a better fighter than Akane, Ryouga doesn't put Akane down like Ranma does. City Hunter fandom was similar. Even in Marvel and DC fandoms it was like that with rival ships, based on actual things in the stories, as they happened in canon, not the freakishly off canon nasty stuff you see now. That kind of thing not the rabid ugly stuff that outright stunned me when it started cropping up in fandoms right around 1998, it was so nasty and rabid and always targeted at the main female character- unless she was a total cheerleader to the main male character.... The nastiness we've seen since around 1998 in fandoms just feels mentally ill to me. The only thing comparable I saw before was in real world music fandoms- and again the women were the only targets of the rabid misogynist (and racist in some cases too- as was the case with Yoko Ono) attacks. Only women who played the traditional subordinate or sexual object roles weren't attacked. That ugliness was absent in fandoms based on stories, movies, TV shows, etc... up till around 1998.

I think it came out of the backlash which started in the early 1980's and never has really gone away (there was easing of it from around 1992-96, but that was crush by an even uglier backlash that still hasn't ended, but gets more and more extreme, although the past year has shown the progressive sector pushing back somewhat, so hopefully this hateful era will soon end and new progressive era will rise.) against the progressive evolution in western culture that happened from the late 1960's-late 1970's.

You see the old style in older fiction based fandoms. Like in Star Trek fandom between classic Trek and Next Generation- the who's the better captain thing is a friendly rivalry, The Star Wars, New Hope trilogy fandom is another, Speed Racer/Maha Go Go Go fandom, Gatchaman fandom, Space Cruiser Yamato fandom, Rose of Versailles fandom, Maison Ikkoku fandom, Elfquest fandom, Diane Tregarde fandom, etc... I love the ships I got from those fandoms and my memories of the fandom are 100% joyful.

I see this rabid ugliness directed at the main female character in various fandoms since the late 1990's as seriously harming the fandoms- I know a number of other female fans in their late 30's to late 40's will outright stay away from any fandom forums until the series is done because they are so sick of this rabid hatred of the main female character. It's caused me to avoid western comic book forums, even ones supposedly devoted to the ship I like because I got completely sick of the constant ugly bashing of the female of the ship. I'll ship my ship in peace thank you very much. I stay in contact with like minded shippers, who either do the same as I do, or at most rarely go to those forums. It gets really old trying to put out the nasty flaming attacks on the female character. It totally ruins the joy of shipping and the fandom period.

[narulsaku]

i became a NS fan when i was 9 . And i will be till death

[xxRomanceGirlxx]

I'd say a hardcore NaruSaku fan. I've always loved pairings in shows or a series and I have a tendency to become a hardcore shipper of pairings once I get into them. If they have particular interactions or something about it that I like, I the couple with all my heart ! I was like that with Inuyasha/Kagome and the same with Naruto/Sakura. If NaruSaku doesn't happen, I will be very angry and more than a little disappointed. But I'll move on and hope one of the other pairings I love become canon in a different setting of a book or TV series. Life goes on

[Dalton.T.R]

I will die with this ship if it takes a direct hit!

[sardns]

NS is like one of the only two ships I support in Naruto, so I guess I'm hardcore in support but not in any other aspect. And if NS didn't happen in the end, I would not disown Naruto because I love the series too much for one ship to ruin it for me although a small part of my Naruto-loving soul might die if that happened.

Edited by sardns, 08 June 2012 - 04:10 PM.

[Toasty Warrior]

I can't really say I'm a moderate NaruSaku fan, so I'd definitely have to say I;m hardcore, but not to the point where I'd bash the other couples. I do respect the other fandom's opinions, but sometimes they just get out of hand and need to be told off which I don't mind doing. I'll definitely say I'd much rather go down with NaruSaku even if it doesn't become canon, but I'm positive we've got the momentum going for us since Naruto and Sakura have had the most interaction and that's what keeps my faith in the couple strong and the other fans that also strongly support it.

We're like one big family. We can fall back on each other and reassure the others that NaruSaku will still happen no matter what.

[James S Cassidy]

Maybe you need it, but I don't. To me it majorly takes away of the joy in the fandom and the shipping....It totally ruins the joy of shipping and the fandom period.

And yet you are always debating even now. Even now you debate with me because of conflict and go on to write this page of how repressed females are in the manga that we read and show how it has evolved over the years. At least that's how I read it. Could be wrong.

I may be younger than you Ciardha, but I think there is something you miss about it all or by the meaning I propose. You say it weakens your resolve, I say it strengthens it. Without conflict how are we ever to evolve? In order to understand what is good, we need evil. In order to understand what is right, we need to know what is wrong. So even if you hate it, you need it to describe the very way people live, not just in how we debate.

I am going into deep waters territory so get your scuba gear. Without conflict we don't get understanding and without that we have no reasoning. One could argue that right and wrong is purely from the view of the person, but this is just splitting hairs. You say it ruins the joy of shipping, yet it is the very reason why we debate about any of it. And honestly, Ciardha, if you hate conflict so much then really why are you even posting on this site? Because we both know you enjoy to discuss your ideas just as much as any one of us. It could be something specific about Sakura's character or it could be something more along the lines of generic discussion like what we are doing here.

The main thing I am getting at is, without these things to test our resolve how are we ever going to discover ourselves as a person? Look at Naruto. He has faced villains who believed they were doing the right thing and they have tested Naruto's own ideas of his own morality and yet he still stand resolved to solve the problems he is faced. Despite being put down he only gains more strength from it. Otherwise, he would have accepted everything someone has told him instead of coming up with his own ideas.

Do I need conflict? I think that is an unfair question because everyone needs conflict to grow and mature. And it can be something stupid and can be something more amazing, but it's all the same if you think about it. Do we like it? I don't really think anyone likes conflict, but we all need it.

I also think it is a bit foolish for you to say "majorly takes away of the joy in the fandom and the shipping" because that just means you are letting them get to you. You are letting their petty insults get to you because you don't want to deal with it and fair enough you have a choice to ignore it, but do you really ignore it? I don't think you would be complaining about it if you truly did ignore it.

For me, I don't want it, but I understand that it is apart of it. To accept it, is to understand it. And as we understand more, the more it strengthens our resolve in what we feel or believe. So it may weaken your resolve, Ciardha, but it strengthens mine and the more they push me the more I am willing to prove them wrong by using better methods.

[Nate River]

Hardcore....

Well, I am admin on a paring forum and I'm pretty vocal from time to time (though about mostly non-pairing things at this point). At the same time, I'm not sure how much I'd care if they did not get together. There was a point where I did, but now...meh. I suppose I would to the extent that I don't see a lot of ways he can do something else without screwing the execution up, but aside from the it's not something that would bother me a lot.

[Malverstation]

In terms of the fandom: Hardcore. In terms relative to life: Moderate. I love NaruSaku hardcore but I know when it becomes an obsession in my life, I need to step away from it. I have always been big about putting real life people above fictional characters. If my NaruSaku obsession is taking away from family time, something is wrong. This is why I can not say I am hardcore or moderate but both. I have been with NaruSaku for the last 3 years...longer than any of the other pairings I been fond of.

[ciardha]

And yet you are always debating even now. Even now you debate with me because of conflict and go on to write this page of how repressed females are in the manga that we read and show how it has evolved over the years. At least that's how I read it. Could be wrong.

I may be younger than you Ciardha, but I think there is something you miss about it all or by the meaning I propose. You say it weakens your resolve, I say it strengthens it.

No, not weakens the resolve, just takes a lot of the joy out of it. I've seen the exact same thing happen in various Marvel and DC comic ships, other manga series, BTVS fandom since the change to rabid ugliness. Older fans, especially older female fans, who remember when fandoms weren't this ugly to main female characters, will withdraw. I hate it too. I know this is not a positive fandom experience.

There's a difference between debate and flame wars. Before the change in fandom there was a stark difference, there is pretty much none now- at least when you look at it through the lens of fandoms before the change and fandoms after. Simple debate with no rabid ugliness isn't necessarily bad or good, it's pretty much neutral. Like in Star Trek fandom with the friendly rivalry between Classic Trek and Star Trek: Next Generation. I don't get into the whole "Who is the better captain- Kirk or Picard? but some people do. It seems like a pointless waste of time to me. I'd rather be discussing what social issues were raised in particular episodes and how the way the episode was written was a reflection of the social culture of the time period it aired, etc...

I'm discussing this with you because we are using the old style debate platform, we are talking civilly. But all the same I'm finding myself getting tired of it. I'm not in a fandom to fight over something- especially a shipping fandom. I'm in a shipping fandom because I love the couple. I'd rather be sharing information, not debating. To me, and other older fans, fighting isn't what we have any interest in. I come here because I want to share information and learn from others, look at strongly pro ns fanart, socialize with other strong ns shippers, etc...

I'm a passionate fan but I don't eat, breathe, sleep ns 24/7. I'm a geek on so many subjects, and not just fandoms- I also love history (lots of subcategories too) , meteorology, astronomy, customizing dolls, etc... And I don't let go of an old geek fandom when I get into a new one, the new one just is layered on top, like an onion. Get me started on the Rose of Versailles series and I'll be as passionate as I am for the Naruto series. They both share a slow developing ship where the man loves the strong willed woman from the start. At first she doesn't think of the guy who loves her romantically, but crushes on a cool, elite guy (in contrast to Naruto, that guy is much more like Road to Ninja genjutsu Sasuke.... ) but gradually falls for the guy who loved her all along who has been by her side from the start. It also starts subtle on the social issues but eventually those social issues become a paramount part of the plot.... (Rose of Versailles is much shorter than Naruto though- only 10 volumes). I'm very much a shipper of Lady Oscar and Andre- I customized dolls as them the same as I did Naruto and Sakura.

Edited by ciardha, 10 June 2012 - 08:41 AM.

[catsi563]

Also to add to the argument a little. I dont agree that you need conflict in a fandom to evolve or grow.

One can change or evolve ones point of view or perspective on a fandom or pairing ship through simple debate or the raising of questions in a straightforward or calm manner.

its one thing for someone to disagree with my take on a pairing and to offer a reasonable and reasoned answer or point of view to counte rmine. this can cause me to rethink my pov even if my answer causes someone else to re think theirs.

But I dont need to rip someones guts out in the process or take an absurd position based on hatred of a minor character, or even worse a completely ridiculous hatred of a main female character that is oft based on spurious arguments or even worse out right ignorance.

Like Ciardha said that isnt fun and it sucks the fun out of a site like this or any other. I come here for the good natured discussions I can ahve about what is one fo my favorite pairings, and I even on occasion get to bring up oen of my other favorite pairings and engage in sometimes vigorous debate with others about it especialy when it relates to NaruSaku. But I always keep in mind that its debate and that in the end im agreeing to disagree when i cant change someones mind which is perfectly acceptable.