62 replies to this topic

[bthug]

WOW that would be insane, I bet if that is true sasuke might break that news to Naruto and see how he reacts, but Naruto might shrug it off....we should start another thread like that.
Back to the topic on hand

Naruto's Pain
1) Never had parents, has to wonder why
2) People HATED him, treated like trash and was past age 12 probably until his fight with Pain, did the common folk appreciate him.
3) Not "gifted" in any sense of the word
4) Had to do stuff when like enrolling in school, making meals, sleeping at night and waking up ALL BY HIMSELF and he has every single day( until he marries Sakura )
5) Has literally a monster inside him trying to break out every single time he might get too emotional.
6) Numerous people want to kill him i.e. the AKATSUKI
7) Until recently had to keep a promise to his loved one.
8) Has to save his friend
9) Has to save the world and end hatred

[Torxe]

I'd say Naruto had it worse ofcourse Sasuke didn't have it exactly easy but if he would have got some help (the whole revenge thing could point to some kind of trauma) he would have gotten over it and make friends and go on with his life.

(Imagine Sasuke in a psychopath clinic => )

But no instead of that he needs to act all emo and get stronger to kill his brother in order to get stronger he betrays the ones that resembles the closest thing he had to family at the time to join Orochimaru. Later he betrays Orochimaru (although he deserved it a lot) and went to kill his brother, along the way he picks up some comrades with who he doesn't even start to become friends, he kills his brother and learns the truth and betrays his brother only to get revenge on the ones that made him kill Itachi by ordering Itachi to murder all the Uchiha while simultaneously acknowledging to be enemies with his former teammates. And while he does that he betrays his comrades as well.

To get to my point I think Sasuke didn't have it so bad, if he was just willing to get over it (however hard it may be) he could have had a close to normal life. If he just wanted to keep a positive attitude. Look at Naruto he was born with a demon inside of him no-one could help him with that, he didn't even know what happened or why everyone hates him. I highly doubt this is one of those "ignorance is bliss" situations. But Naruto has kept a positive attitude and now he has a life far better than Sasuke. But that positive attitude didn't do much good when he was still a kid because everyone shunned him, only when people were forced to interract with him when he became a genin they started to see he ain't all that dangerous as everyone thought. Sasuke had this chance all along. People (fangirls) would flock around him all the time, plenty of opportunity to get some comforting.

Srr for the rambling don't know for sure if anyone is going to get my point out of this but in case of problems, just ask ?

[bthug]

It is better to have loved and lost, then to have never have loved at all.

[merryGOflava]

It is better to have loved and lost, then to have never have loved at all.

i guess thats true :o but naruto is loved now and sasuke loved and lost and isnt getting the love anymore....hmmmm but naruto still didnt have family......

[bthug]

The love Naruto gets now is completely earned, and people wanted to help sasuke, but he refused.

[Arrakesh]

WOW that would be insane, I bet if that is true sasuke might break that news to Naruto and see how he reacts, but Naruto might shrug it off....we should start another thread like that.
Back to the topic on hand

Naruto's Pain
1) Never had parents, has to wonder why
2) People HATED him, treated like trash and was past age 12 probably until his fight with Pain, did the common folk appreciate him.
3) Not "gifted" in any sense of the word
4) Had to do stuff when like enrolling in school, making meals, sleeping at night and waking up ALL BY HIMSELF and he has every single day( until he marries Sakura )
5) Has literally a monster inside him trying to break out every single time he might get too emotional.
6) Numerous people want to kill him i.e. the AKATSUKI
7) Until recently had to keep a promise to his loved one.
8) Has to save his friend
9) Has to save the world and end hatred

10) Until recently he didn't even know who his parents were...
11) His entire clan and village were destroyed in the past ninja wars (Uzumaki Clan)
12) He was all alone in the world without a single adult to assist him (no relatives either, cousins, grandparents whatever - What ever happened to Kushina's and Minato's parents?)
13) Even those who knew the truth about him (his parents death and Minato's wish to Naruto be considered a hero in Konoha) didn't do anything to lift his loneliness and left him to fend for himself.

Honestly, I wonder how he lived till he was old enough to live by himself. WE have seen his room, when he was around 12 yo, but no one showed us how he lived when he was 6 or younger. Gaara had his uncle looking after him (in a fasion, though later he tried to kill him), but who was looking after Naruto? Orphanage perhaps?

[Anguyen92]

^^ Yeah, orphanage probably.

Anywho, to answer the question, I say Naruto. That dude had a crappy lifestyle and yet he still yearns and dreams of making it to the big time. If Sasuke would just suck it up like Naruto did and not act all emo and hatred and such, well things would have been very different, in fact, odds are there might have been a, glup, sasusaku if he actually learn to complement people and treat them like his equal, because the better they look, the better he looks.

He had everything on a pedastal in terms of respect while Naruto had nothing, he had to crawl his way to the top, including his relationship with Sakura which makes more of a compelling story. Its like the stoic vs the epicure.

Edited by anguyen92, 25 June 2011 - 09:21 PM.

[flaglmr18]

What about the fact that Naruto had to deal Jiraiyas death and when he confronts Nagato, who killed his teacher, he lets him live.

[Phantom_999]

Can't say personally they are both the worst kinds of pain and in reality if anyone felt this kind of pain they'd be driven insane! So I say neutral

[merryGOflava]

Can't say personally they are both the worst kinds of pain and in reality if anyone felt this kind of pain they'd be driven insane! So I say neutral

yea i say neutral too. i mean both had kinda the same thing happen, but different circumstances.

like sasuke knew his parents but they were killed, when he was young.

naruto didnt know his parents when he was young but they were also killed.

they both had it bad, its hard to say which is worst.

[Nee-sama]

I think if you were to ask them this question they would agree that it's hard to say which had it worse. The one thing that is definite is that Naruto has had more things working in his favor recently than Sasuke has, so he has been able to cope with his trauma better than Sasuke. So, at present you could easily say that Sasuke has it worse, but as kids they had parallel dramas.

[Madz]

Psychological-wise, it's much much worse to see your whole familly massacred at the age of 7. There is no debate in this. This sort of sudden, horrifying trauma would seriously make a kid of 7 go berseck.

Naruto had it bad, too, and the third is to be fully blamed for this - he did not do his duty to protect Naruto enough, as he had promised to the fourth. Though from what I see, Naruto had not been violently aggressed, per se, but very outcasted. The process is slow, but still bad.

Garaa had it best in all three, because he had two caring sibblings by his side, though they were too scared of him.

[Greed-Sama]

Psychological-wise, it's much much worse to see your whole familly massacred at the age of 7. There is no debate in this. This sort of sudden, horrifying trauma would seriously make a kid of 7 go berseck.

Naruto had it bad, too, and the third is to be fully blamed for this - he did not do his duty to protect Naruto enough, as he had promised to the fourth. Though from what I see, Naruto had not been violently aggressed, per se, but very outcasted. The process is slow, but still bad.

Garaa had it best in all three, because he had two caring sibblings by his side, though they were too scared of him.

Gaara had it best? Yes he had two siblings, but when your own father tries to kill you (through the use of an assassin), you develop severe trust issues. At least Itachi didn't try to slaughter Sasuke had such a young age. Yes, I agree that Sasuke's life sucks at present, but he is perfectly aware of the path he chose so it's hard to feel sympathy for him.

Isn't the saying "It's better to have loved than never have loved at all." Not exactly the same premise, but I think it doesn't always need to be romantic love.

[Madz]

"It's better to have loved than never have loved at all" CANNOT be compared to losing someone through death. It's NOT the same thing at all, specially not for a 7 years old kid.

Personally, I see too many loopholes in Kishi's picturing Naruto as the 'lonely, outcasted, poor kid."
The third had the duty to ensure that Naruto was happy and cared for- he failed. Why? Mystery. His grandson Konohamaru was more cared for, having a personal sensei since very small to ensure that he was out of danger. Why he did so for Konohamaru but not for Naruto? because no-one wanted to take the mission? We don't know.

Jiraiya could have been present for Naruto, seeing how he was fond of Minato and Naruto was his GODSON, for pete's sake. But where was he all the time that poor Naruto was outcasted? Roaming the world. He appeared after 12 years, and by FLUKE met Naruto, and by FLUKE decided to train him.

Take a two kids in the actual world, the orphan one, who is out casted by his peers people - is certainly a case to be taken seriously. But the 7 years old kid who one day, coming from school, discovered his whole familly murdered? he would be immediately taken into urgent intensive care of dozens of psyciatric/ therapist / or whatever care uptil as long as possible. This is a simple fact.

Edited by Madz, 29 June 2011 - 09:23 AM.

[Arrakesh]

The above post has made very good points regarding the entire situation, but I still disagree about who had it worst.

I will not say that Sasuke's shock was not far greater, because it really was. However, if we compare both childhoods Naruto still had much worse. Sasuke had one big shock along with one big loss, but before that, he had a normal life, and afterwards everyone looked at him with compassion. It was his own choice to not let anyone get close to him, and also his choice to choose vengeance instead of any other path.

Naruto on the other hand never had anyone close to him as he was growing up. He was denied his roots, his history, even the names of his own parents. Those who had sworn to watch over him did nothing on his behalf, but watched from afar because it was the "best for the village" - such a great way to honor Yondaime's sacrifice. Naruto had no friends and was hated by everyone, yet he had no clue why. As I said, Sasuke's shock was far greater, but till he was seven his life was normal, and even after the event, he knew exactly what had happened and who was to blame for his condition. Naruto had to deal with his condition for as long as he can remember, and never knew why he was the target for so much hatred.

Imagine for a moment which is worse, to lose everyone you know and love, or to never have had anyone to know and love you? I agree it is not easy to deal with a loss such as Sasuke's and to say otherwise it would be to greatly understate the meaning of it. It was indeed a fateful blow against Sasuke, yet he knew love and acceptance.

From day one, Naruto has been hated by everyone in the village. Imagine going to the market and being thrown out simply because you are you, no other reason than that. Besides, isn't the main motto of the leaf that they are all one big family, as Sandaime said time after time? Where was this family when Naruto needed it? Even Iruka only approached Naruto because of Sandaime's orders. And worse, even Sandaime only ordered Iruka because Naruto was nearly out of control. Seems to me they were all more concerned about the Kyubi than about Naruto.

Also, one other thing we are forgetting here is about their backgrounds. They are shinobis, not the average suburb family. This point is made several times in the manga. In other words, it is necessary for them to know how to deal with death and loss, it's the shinobi life. I may be asking too much of sasuke here, but remember that Kakashi was Chunnin by the age of six, and Jounin at thirteen. Kakashi's world also feel apart, his father killed himself, after everyone turn their backs on him, and yet, he didn't go evil or anything.

Anyway, perhaps I am ranting at this point, but I still find a lot harder to deal with prejudice for one's entire life, than to deal with loss. The loss is one's own, and no matter how bad it is, it's up to that person to deal with, one way or another. Prejudice is a different matter, you must fight the entire world, and is even harder is you don't know why you are fighting it.

[Phantom_999]

Gaara had it best? Yes he had two siblings, but when your own father tries to kill you (through the use of an assassin), you develop severe trust issues. At least Itachi didn't try to slaughter Sasuke had such a young age. Yes, I agree that Sasuke's life sucks at present, but he is perfectly aware of the path he chose so it's hard to feel sympathy for him.

Isn't the saying "It's better to have loved than never have loved at all." Not exactly the same premise, but I think it doesn't always need to be romantic love.

I don't really agree with that statement the "its better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all" I mean both of those circumstances can bring out the worst in people. To love and to lose it leads to hatred which in turn leads to revenge, jealousy( if you lose someone to someone) and heartbreak, causing heated fury and desire to hate everything. While never loving leads to lack of compassion for others, despair and complete emptiness, and this causes someone to destroy and inflict pain onto others without batting an eye. So I really don't agree with Shakespeare's poetic crap because even though that's not always the case both of those situations bring out the worst in people generally

[Arrakesh]

I don't really agree with that statement the "its better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all" I mean both of those circumstances can bring out the worst in people. To love and to lose it leads to hatred which in turn leads to revenge, jealousy( if you lose someone to someone) and heartbreak, causing heated fury and desire to hate everything. While never loving leads to lack of compassion for others, despair and complete emptiness, and this causes someone to destroy and inflict pain onto others without batting an eye. So I really don't agree with Shakespeare's poetic crap because even though that's not always the case both of those situations bring out the worst in people generally

I see your point, but you are mistaken love by passion. Remember that one of love's greatest statement is to "seek the loved one happiness above your own". This saying means mostly that those who know love can at least get seom confort from the memories of it, while those who have never felt it have nothing to hold on. Just look at the last chapter (544) when Bee tells Kaikage that Naruto has two suns inside him. Naruto only got that once he was able to "talk" with his parents, and eventhough they are long dead, he knows now (and feels it too) how much they loved him; they even sacrificed themselves for him.

Again, I do not see the same applying to Sasuke, especially since his parents didn't trully love him. He was always second best to Itachi. his father never paid him the proper attention untill Itache turned against the clan. Also his father only cared about the Uchiha pride, and his sons were meant to care as much as him (which Itachi didn't obviously). The only one who really loved Sasuke was Itachi, but due to the whole mass murder issue, Sasuke forsake that love and began hating him. It is my belief that Sasuke hates himself far more than he hates anything else, since he was the one who "killed "Itachi, and also spent a decade hating him for now reason at all. This hatred blinded him to the simple true that he cannot have both his father's way and Itachi's way. That's why he is totally lost, or as it was said in another post somewhere, he is completely cukoo now, and makes no sense of anything...

[Greed-Sama]

I see your point, but you are mistaken love by passion. Remember that one of love's greatest statement is to "seek the loved one happiness above your own". This saying means mostly that those who know love can at least get seom confort from the memories of it, while those who have never felt it have nothing to hold on. Just look at the last chapter (544) when Bee tells Kaikage that Naruto has two suns inside him. Naruto only got that once he was able to "talk" with his parents, and eventhough they are long dead, he knows now (and feels it too) how much they loved him; they even sacrificed themselves for him.

This is mostly what i meant by my statement. Thank you for clearing that up. At least Sasuke had someone at some point in his life. He also had his "fangirls" and while not truly friends, he could have made an effort and filled in the void with Ino or even Sakura, but no he chose revenge.

@Madz, while yes you make a point about the therapeutic issues. Konoha isn't the real world. They are Shinobi. They live in a military state, and while Sasuke hadn't experienced death until that point, the village would probably even recognize that he might have a problem.

Edited by TheOmegaMan, 29 June 2011 - 06:08 PM.

[Toasty Warrior]

I still say Naruto had it worse than Sasuke because no one no matter what deserves to be ignored and treated that badly for something he didn't do and didn't even have a say in. Sure Sasuke witnessed his whole family murdered before him, but at least he knew what love was until his parents were murdered while Naruto never had such a thing and that's one thing you should never deny a child, a loving and caring atmosphere.

[catsi563]

to be honest though its completely irrelelvant who had it worst though.

Sasuke and Naruto can easily be said to have it bad one lost everything at birth and was outcast entirely for no apparent reason he could fathom causing him to seek the end of that being outcast. One had everything from birth but lost it all at an too young age, but inspite of all the caring people gave him chose to become an outcast himself.

The truth is that the story is about the choices both made. the latest episodes emphasize this with Narutos silent admonition that their roles and places could easilly be reversed.Its these choices which define them and which drive them to their destined roles in the story.