101 replies to this topic

[Darth Krypt]

They do what they have to do. Since the studios thrive on ratings, they have to try their best to satisfy all parties in order to keep them interested. There are alot of people who prefer to watch the anime rather than read the manga. So they use this to their advantage to modify certain details to serve their purpose. I won't be surprised if the ending shows Naruto not being with any girl even though the manga will show otherwise (with Sakura, duh).

Take Death Note for example. The manga shows Light being in a degrading situation till the end and this does not make Light fans happy so they changed the ending to make it look more respectable.

EDIT: I asked my friend who only watch the anime and asked her after she watched this episode whether she thinks Sakura really likes Naruto. She said yes.

Edited by Darth Krypt, 22 April 2011 - 06:25 AM.

[Codus N]

wow i agree with Derock and Kushina.
Pierrot do kitten up alot of moments but Graven, Ciarda on this episode y'all freaking out about nothing.
but this episode just shows how much Sakura cares and loves Naruto.

Eh, perhaps I shouldn't just sit back and get annoyed here, but find out Studio Pierrot's email address and start sending them my complaints about them messing around with manga canon. It's knowing what anime companies do with manga adaptions that turns off a lot of adult manga readers in US and Japan to anime. Most of my 40 something friends that still read manga rarely watch anime anymore, and I've heard similar things from older Japanese manga readers too...

Exactly. Stop freaking out everyone. Remember that the ones we're seeing are subbed by HorribleSubs. I wouldn't put it past them to make it lean towards SS. Stop making me repeat myself. If however, those subs are indeed translated by Crunchyroll, then I will just say this. Yes, the anime screwed up. But we have the manga to look forward to. So don't worry about it.

@ciardha: you might as well ask BONES to buy the anime rights considering they're a top-tier animation studio. And they NEVER screw with manga stories. (Watch FMA:B)

I am very annoyed with this episode as well. There is a TOTAL SS vibe to it, which is not to that extreme in the manga.

Thanks, Kushina, for having printed the comparisons, and if I have to analyse them, it's coming out even worse!


[Manga] "She thought she'd lessen your burden by giving up on Sasuke and confessing her love for you..."
[Episode] "By telling you she'd given up on Sasuke, and declaring her love for you, she was freeing you from the burden of the promise you made."

This is a MAJOR problem. In the Manga, it says "By GIVING UP on Sasuke and confessing her love for you", it's an ACTION, something which she is DOING, whereas in the episode, it's a statement, "by TELLING you she'd given up on Sasuke" is coming out like she is LYING to Naruto, which is NOT the case as Kishi has stated.


[Manga] Naruto: "She likes/loves Sasuke so much--"//Sai: "That's why. I don't think she can just stand by and watch as he plunges headlong towards evil. She wants to save him from a life of evil because she loves him... And I think she's prepared to do whatever it takes. Even if that means killing the one she loves."
[Episode] Naruto: "She's crazy about Sasuke--"//Sai: "It's because she loves him so much that she can't bear to watch Sasuke become turn more and more evil. It's because she loves him so much that she wants to save Sasuke from this path of evil. Even if that means killing the one she loves with her own hands."

The only line added was, "That's how committed she is to her love for Sasuke."

This part is bugging me as well, just for the mere number of times it has been stated she 'loves' / "is crazy about" Sasuke. In the manga it's 3 times, in the anime it's FIVE times, which too many additions of "so much" !!!!

I just simply do not like how they have made this episode at all.

Like I said, don't worry about it's likely HorribleSubs took some liberty with the translations. If however, these are indeed Crunchyroll's translations, then screw them. Who cares??

[Grace]

@ciardha--Um. First off, what version of Fushigi Yuugi did you watch? I've read the manga and watched the anime; the only ones I might say were off were the OVA spin-offs about the "second half" of the manga. Otherwise it was pretty damn accurate for the first 52 episodes (main series).

Second, as I mentioned in my first post: companies (I mentioned higher-ups) will sometimes tweak things to garner ratings or popularity. What you're suggesting is that the animators themselves are letting their personal wishes for the series affect things. I'm surprised you're not suggesting the voice actors purposely change their lines to suit themselves too

@Madz-- "This is a MAJOR problem. In the Manga, it says "By GIVING UP on Sasuke and confessing her love for you", it's an ACTION, something which she is DOING, whereas in the episode, it's a statement, "by TELLING you she'd given up on Sasuke" is coming out like she is LYING to Naruto, which is NOT the case as Kishi has stated.

Or maybe it's referring to the fact that Sakura really hadn't given up on Sasuke and was just telling Naruto that....y'know, like what happened in the manga, as we see later when she can't bring herself to kill him. As I said before, while this can all be taken in a romantic light, we've been over the possibility of her "loving" and "getting over" him being related to who he was as a child; as her teammate and friend.
(And even if it is meant to be taken only in a romantic way, it's not like it changes a whole lot since this plot point leads into her troubles with killing him/realizing he's changed too much to be the guy she used to love later.)

"This part is bugging me as well, just for the mere number of times it has been stated she 'loves' / "is crazy about" Sasuke. In the manga it's 3 times, in the anime it's FIVE times, which too many additions of "so much" !!!!

*facepalm* So because they said it two more times means it's suddenly much more potent or something? Just saying it once gets the point across, doesn't it--saying it any more after that is keeping in context. I honestly can't think of why 5 times instead of 3 is worth so much angst.

There's so much overreacting here that I'm at a loss =/

[Madz]

Kushina...

yeah, I know I'm overreacting and over reading...
The thing is, as a fanfic writer, I pay very careful attention to these small details in the manga before writing a story. For me, if it was said Sakura "love" Sasuke one times, it does not hold the same weight than if it was told many more times in the same sentence. For me, underlining something has an importance...
English is NOT my primary language (heck, it's not even my secondary language), so I admit I do tend to over analyse what's written - sorry!

[Grace]

Kushina...

yeah, I know I'm overreacting and over reading...
The thing is, as a fanfic writer, I pay very careful attention to these small details in the manga before writing a story. For me, if it was said Sakura "love" Sasuke one times, it does not hold the same weight than if it was told many more times in the same sentence. For me, underlining something has an importance...
English is NOT my primary language (heck, it's not even my secondary language), so I admit I do tend to over analyse what's written - sorry!

Ah, a language difference does count for something... XD
I was just honestly confused over the huge reaction given, but I can kind of understand what you're coming from. Not sure I agree entirely, but I get what you're saying.

[Kobayashi]

I was wondering guys can i see japanese chapter translation of conffession chapter and then chapter in which Sai talks to Naruto. If this has been already discussed can you post me links to where is the location of translated japanese chapters with no bias.
Also can you please send me link to Kishimoto interviews year 2009,2010 and 2011, and discussion threads on this forum cause i was unable to find them, also i was trying to find interviews over the google but could not find correct ones, i would always end up reading interviews translated by Naru-Hina fans. Thanks in advance to anyone who takes their time to send me link.

[ciardha]

Yes, this is very true. I used to be so pissed off at the first part of the Inuyasha anime because they were obvious Inuyasha and Kikyo shippers. They literally invented entire episodes concentrating on the couple.

I think that was part of it, but also it fits the pattern that anime companies drag out, or outright even make up ships (ala Rei practically having cat fights with Usagi over Mamoru in Sailor Moon, where in the manga Rei thought he was attractive, but once she saw Usagi was totally into him, she immediately backed off. Rei was a polite but reserved wealthy girl in the manga- also in the more recent short live action version- which because of Takeuchi's close involvement with the script writing ended up staying much truer to canon character personalities. Unfortunately an active manga writer or one without Takeuchi's clout, and having regained full rights to Sailor Moon, has neither the time or power to make sure the typical games aren't played with their stories.)

Anime companies make up ships, or string out one sided ships, because they think that makes a more popular anime formula- more drama! But it all it really ends up doing is- fooling viewers that don't read the manga about where things are going, which causes big time fandom strife and major irritation for the manga writers.

[catsi563]

And in this case the Anime team has gone out of its way to convince EVERYONE including naruto and the audience that Sakura is inevtiably and irrevocably in love with Sasuke and will never be in love with Naruto.

this has its own set of issues attached to it in which case when Naruto and Sakura finalyl come together, from the animes perspective it will come off as sudden and surprising.

people will look back to this episode and naruto and sais comments and say WTF? what happened to Sakuras"" deep and abiding"" love for Sasuke?

It very well could end up like the first FMA series where the story violently shifts from canon into a complete AU with no resolution or even a completely made up one.

[Greed-Sama]

And in this case the Anime team has gone out of its way to convince EVERYONE including naruto and the audience that Sakura is inevtiably and irrevocably in love with Sasuke and will never be in love with Naruto.

this has its own set of issues attached to it in which case when Naruto and Sakura finalyl come together, from the animes perspective it will come off as sudden and surprising.

people will look back to this episode and naruto and sais comments and say WTF? what happened to Sakuras"" deep and abiding"" love for Sasuke?

It very well could end up like the first FMA series where the story violently shifts from canon into a complete AU with no resolution or even a completely made up one.

You know when I first came into the Naruto fandom I watched entirely the anime all the way up to the Pain arc. I still thought Naruto was in love in Sakura, and that Sakura's "love" for Sasuke was waining more and more by the minute and shifting to Naruto especially in the Sai arc. Of course I also knew what was and wasn't filler, but still I don't see the issue with the anime's tweaking of it. They are still getting right to me, albeit with some minor changes.

And as for the FMA series. While it did go off on it's own AU it did have a resolution just not the resolution everyone wanted. Both stories have their merits in certain things, and that's all I'll say on the matter.

[K9ofChaos]

I agree with Derock and Kushina. We've been through this whole thing before. Some people seem to be overreacting to the whole thing. I honestly didn't see this as a butchering of narusaku as a pairing. It was pretty much the same as the sleepyfans translation. Not to mention that love as an english word has more then one meaning. The definition of love isn't just the "OMG HOTNESS I WANNA BANG YOU" kind of love but could mean the "I like you as a friend and teammate kind with no romantic undertones" kind of love.



My interpretation of the scene with Sai is that he was referring to Sakura's "love for Sasuke" as more of the kind of love you'd have for a friend and teammate and nothing more. But there's also some people who believe that Sai was referring to Sakura's "love for Sasuke" as lingering feelings from the past which is an opinion that I don't necessarily agree with but is an opinion of some people nonetheless. The only thing this episode made me do was ponder what the interpretation was meant to be and how I was supposed to interpret that scene though that's just me being OCD on my part.



Usually I'd read the whole thread before posting but I just skimmed through some post so I don't know the whole scope of viewpoints about this episode. The bottom line of what I'm trying to say is that I think there's nothing to worry about here and this was just a normal episode produced by people who're just doing there jobs.



NOTE: If any of you can find a reference to something on this post, then you win a cookie.

[The Tax-Man]

I agree with Derock and Kushina. We've been through this whole thing before. Some people seem to be overreacting to the whole thing. I honestly didn't see this as a butchering of narusaku as a pairing. It was pretty much the same as the sleepyfans translation. Not to mention that love as an english word has more then one meaning. The definition of love isn't just the "OMG HOTNESS I WANNA BANG YOU" kind of love but could mean the "I like you as a friend and teammate kind with no romantic undertones" kind of love.



My interpretation of the scene with Sai is that he was referring to Sakura's "love for Sasuke" as more of the kind of love you'd have for a friend and teammate and nothing more. But there's also some people who believe that Sai was referring to Sakura's "love for Sasuke" as lingering feelings from the past which is an opinion that I don't necessarily agree with but is an opinion of some people nonetheless. The only thing this episode made me do was ponder what the interpretation was meant to be and how I was supposed to interpret that scene though that's just me being OCD on my part.



Usually I'd read the whole thread before posting but I just skimmed through some post so I don't know the whole scope of viewpoints about this episode. The bottom line of what I'm trying to say is that I think there's nothing to worry about here and this was just a normal episode produced by people who're just doing there jobs.



NOTE: If any of you can find a reference to something on this post, then you win a cookie.

THANK YOU!!!

Seriously, people! Take a chill pill!!! Nothing is wrong. The overall meaning is the same. I've watched the anime and never read the manga up until the manga was at the Jiraya vs. Pain arc. Honestly, I reached the same conclusion as people who only read the manga. Except I thought NaruHina or SasuSaku had an even less of a chance. There is absolutely nothing wrong. Besides, don't you think it'd be boring if every single piece of dialogue was the same? And it's okay if they drag out filler. Nothing changes. In the end, they have to follow the manga exactly.

[Verilance]

And in this case the Anime team has gone out of its way to convince EVERYONE including naruto and the audience that Sakura is inevtiably and irrevocably in love with Sasuke and will never be in love with Naruto.

this has its own set of issues attached to it in which case when Naruto and Sakura finalyl come together, from the animes perspective it will come off as sudden and surprising.

people will look back to this episode and naruto and sais comments and say WTF? what happened to Sakuras"" deep and abiding"" love for Sasuke?

It very well could end up like the first FMA series where the story violently shifts from canon into a complete AU with no resolution or even a completely made up one.

Just to be precise the original FMA anime came up with a different ending because Arakawa-sensei asked them to, though she told them roughly how her series would end she did not want her readers to be spoiled by watching the story unfold and together they came up with how the original FMA anime ending.

Edited by Verilance, 23 April 2011 - 02:27 AM.

[ciardha]

And in this case the Anime team has gone out of its way to convince EVERYONE including naruto and the audience that Sakura is inevtiably and irrevocably in love with Sasuke and will never be in love with Naruto.

this has its own set of issues attached to it in which case when Naruto and Sakura finalyl come together, from the animes perspective it will come off as sudden and surprising.

people will look back to this episode and naruto and sais comments and say WTF? what happened to Sakuras"" deep and abiding"" love for Sasuke?

This is exactly the problem when anime companies mess around with manga canon.

I can remember this causing a big problem amongst Ranma 1/2 fandom in the 1990's- the whole Shampoo shipper issue, plus how they overplayed the RyougaxUkiyo thing- in the manga it was just one short arc and basically was just a friendship. Where Takahashi had Ryouga develop feelings for a girl named Akari- they even date in the manga, and Ukiyou developed a kind of mildly tsundere relationship with Konatsu (who is totally left out of the anime). I can remember negative fandom reaction to Akari in US fandom, directly because the anime had overplayed the RyougaxUkiyou pairing. They also overplayed Shampoo in comparison to what time she had in the manga, thus the rabid ShampooxRanma 1/2 fans that trashed Akane

The anime with the RyougaxUkiyo pairing reached the US, via Viz (dubbed only for several years), years before the manga storyline got to that arc (back then Viz was releasing Ranma 1/2 in western comic book style format, and back then it was also way easier to get fansubs of anime than get fan translations of the manga- back in the early 90's the public internet was completely text based, so you didn't have online scanalations, and even the fan translations were a month or more delayed, because there wasn't any real connection between Japanese manga readers and Americans, it was usually some lucky person who lived close to a Japanese grocery (one of the few places you could find manga, in the original Japanese in the 1980's and early 90's.) and could read Japanese that would write out a translation of the chapters.

Edited by ciardha, 23 April 2011 - 03:01 AM.

[tricksie]

Just to be precise the original FMA anime came up with a different ending because Arakawa-sensei asked them to, though she told them roughly how her series would end she did not want her readers to be spoiled by watching the story unfold and together they came up with how the original FMA anime ending.

good to know. I'm watching the fma series right now, starting from the beginning, and without having read the manga beforehand. Just a few episodes when I get the chance. But I knew from a while ago that the anime went a different direction from the manga.

For what it's worth, I was put off by the episode. Sai doesn't reinforce Sakura's confession, he undermines it. Sakura's actions speak volumes. But Sai turns it into a choice about Sasuke instead of a choice about Naruto. When really, this whole chapter/episode/arc is about Sakura choosing Naruto over Sasuke.

The choice is important because when Naruto does save her, she's already made her decision. It isn't based on his heroism, but her recognition of him as her friend and partner. I can only guess that the anime will show her as lovestruck after he saves her, and that's when she makes her change. Essentially turning her from fangirl of Sasuke ot fangirl of Naruto. Ugh.

[Madz]

^^
Exactly my sentiments, Tricksie - though you expressed it even much better than I could.

[Super Boom]

Hmm, this is my first comment, so hopefully I'm not doing this wrong, lol.
I don't really read the manga (yeah, I'm one of those people), so this is my first time seeing this scene. And boy, was I devastated. I mean, I can force myself to tolerate NaruHina, but SasuSaku? NEVER!

But I thought about it, and a few thoughts came to mind. Sai mentioned that Sakura knew how Naruto would respond to her statement, but did it anyway. If Sakura knew how he'd react, then why'd she lie and take advantage of his feelings? That's way OOC for Sakura to do to him, even she only sees him as a friend, like all the NHers and SSers claim. If she only cared about removing the POAL from him, why did she have to lie about loving him? Just saying she had given up on Sasuke should have been enough. On top of that, if she knew how he'd react, why'd she get so mad at his response to her confession? To me that tells me her love confession was at least partly genuine, and she wanted to put it out there before going to fight Sasuke.

Anyway, I don't doubt she has some leftover feelings for her first crush/love, but the more I think about it, the less I doubt she has feelings for Naruto. Anyhoo, I'm sure most of you have debated this to death when it came out in the manga, so I'm probably not bringing anything new to the table.

[ciardha]

For what it's worth, I was put off by the episode. Sai doesn't reinforce Sakura's confession, he undermines it. Sakura's actions speak volumes. But Sai turns it into a choice about Sasuke instead of a choice about Naruto. When really, this whole chapter/episode/arc is about Sakura choosing Naruto over Sasuke.

The choice is important because when Naruto does save her, she's already made her decision. It isn't based on his heroism, but her recognition of him as her friend and partner. I can only guess that the anime will show her as lovestruck after he saves her, and that's when she makes her change. Essentially turning her from fangirl of Sasuke ot fangirl of Naruto. Ugh.

Thank you! You laid it out far more clearly than I did. Their motivation is clear, pandering to the sasusaku shippers, but every time they do this (either by overplaying her part 1 fangirling for Sasuke- having her act toward Naruto in ways the character never do or would have thought of, and keeping her a Sasuke fangirl until the mostly likely as you said abrupt shift making it look like she's gone from fangirling one to the other, ends up having a negative effect on how anime only viewers will see her character, not the journey Kishimoto wrote for her from a naive one sided crush on a boy who had no interest in her, to falling in real love with Naruto, who has grown in how he loves Sakura. This also undermined Naruto's change here too- in the manga when Sai tells him Sakura has moved on from Sasuke and fallen in love with Naruto, Naruto sees her as she truly is now in his mind for the first time.

[Kobayashi]

Thank you! You laid it out far more clearly than I did. Their motivation is clear, pandering to the sasusaku shippers, but every time they do this (either by overplaying her part 1 fangirling for Sasuke- having her act toward Naruto in ways the character never do or would have thought of, and keeping her a Sasuke fangirl until the mostly likely as you said abrupt shift making it look like she's gone from fangirling one to the other, ends up having a negative effect on how anime only viewers will see her character, not the journey Kishimoto wrote for her from a naive one sided crush on a boy who had no interest in her, to falling in real love with Naruto, who has grown in how he loves Sakura. This also undermined Naruto's change here too- in the manga when Sai tells him Sakura has moved on from Sasuke and fallen in love with Naruto, Naruto sees her as she truly is now in his mind for the first time.

Yeah you are right but that is mangastream translation, in sleepy fans translation it says "she thought shed lesen your burden by giving up on Sasuke and conffesing her love to you". It is the same in general but when you turn around words you get totally different meaning. To me this sleepy fans version says that she was somewhat forced to give up on Sasuke and conffess to Naruto cause she had no other choice. But that is just mine impression. I wonder what does original says?