12811 replies to this topic

[rocci]

 
I agree about Gaara. Though Obito's could have been better. At least he didn't wish to die a monster.

Redemption darth vader style. The same thing happen with nagato too.

[rocci]

"Better dead than to be a dad" - sasuke uchiha.

[luffyq1]

Naruto going Kyuubi for Hinata is the biggest proof NH has. Basically they say he knew Kakashi was dead, knew Jiraiya was dead, and knew the villagers were dead but it was only when Hinata got poked by Pain that Naruto went psycho.

i think the last is the biggest proof nh has.

[Aizen-Sama]

"Better dead than to be a dad" - sasuke uchiha.

Epic quote.

[Nar123]

Actually anything other than Sasuke paying for his crimes would be sh*tty writing.

 

You just can't forget a guy creating havoc, killing people, maiming the raikage.......
He should have been punished, I never liked that guy but Kishi's pampering for that self absorbed prick made me completely hate his guts.

 

IMO he should have lost his vision at least, then he should've go on a trial for terrorism during KS arc. He could've shown his thoughts and then the kages could work up his sentence. 

After he is cleared up it would be nice to see him working together with Naruto in building a better system for the world

 

 

The only good redemption story is garra.
Nagato because of book.
Obito because naruto win tug of war.
Sasuke because it only 3 chapters left before the ending.

 

 

Bolded: True enough.

Nagato's redemption was badly done, I agree. Though I can buy that he just wanted to desperately believe on Naruto's ubber idealism. One thing I couldn't stomach though was the Deux Ex Machina Rinne Tensei move and the fact that Naruto's answer remained vague until the end

Obito's redemption was undeniably weak, it was dragged  too much and when he eventually parted the impact was not the same. And the asspull he generated through Kakashi was just the worst

Yep, this pretty much sums up. Sasuke's redemption felt rushed

 

 

Anyway, obito will meet his dead because he's a mass murder.
While sasuke not dead because he's not mass murder.

 

 

Cold hard facts these are, but they are the truth.

Sasuke wouldn't have died at the end unless his crimes were completely heinous

[AHK]

 

 

2) Gaara  was basically an orphan in his village since his father didn't "care" for him and his siblings were afraid of him, the only person who cared for him (his uncle) tried to kill him. Like Rocci said, he is Naruto if Iruka betrayed him for some reason, he is Naruto  with the lack of any bond, and that's exactly why Naruto was able to get thorugh him, Naruto showed him his strenght came from his bonds and thanks to this he was able to defeat Gaara. IMO this was really the only "good " TnJ in this story

 

 

3)Nope, both of them followed Jiraya's dream of peace. Nagato was awfully realistic and as such used extreme ways to reach that dream however this eventually lead to his despair, Naruto was idealistic and his never give up attitude was able to instill some hope in Nagato. The only thing that lacked in this conversation was that it lacked Naruto's ultimate resolve, Naruto's idealistic approach wouldn't work and the story should have shown him that. In the end Naruto should have acquired a balance between the idealistic and realistic approaches. Nagato did not distancied himself from his problems...you mean that because he used the powers of the Rinnegan? LOL you know that the six paths of Pein are him don't you?

 

4) Kakashi said that but what was shown to us through Obito's backstory was a different thing, it was more focused on Rin than anything else, maybe if it had showed us more things related to Obito himself and not his crush on the girl...

Besides Naruto and Obito have obvious similarities but their "deep connection" that the manga showed  was that Obito gave up on his dream of Hokageship, Naruto did not, IMO it's a lot more shallow than the other two. That's why I agree that even though Obito is an anti Naruto,  he is the worst out of all of them.

Naruto's statement regarding Sasuke however came from naruto himself not a third party and it rings true in a certain manner, if their choices had been a little different Naruto could end up as a konoha enemy ( if the years of abuse took it's toll and he had no one) and Sasuke could end up as a konoha protector ( if Itachi's plan worked)

 

5) The problem was how Kishimoto showed this motivation, at first was " Well it's not because Rin is dead..." then it became "it's because Rin's dead ! ", at the same time while Hashirama , Madara and the others had their motivation expanded upon, Obito's one was terribly stupid, okay then his crush died...well best thing to do is to start a war and trap everyone in a genjustu !! If Kishimoto wanted that reason to be valid he had to work on how Obito's situation with the Uchiha was, and exactly why Rin was so important to him. If Kishi had done that I could buy why Obito acted the way he did, and yes of course he had also to fix Obito's sudden change of motives in the story, it made no sense whatsoever 

Comparing Obito's badly executed motive with those of other better executed characters makes no sense really. Besides Minato didn't really want to change the system, he just believed on Jiraya's dream of peace, the same thing with Naruto (unfortunately he never grew up beyond that).

It's funny though because if you think like that then you have to agree that's Sasuke motive for trying to change the system was valid too since his motive to do it made more sense than Obito's

 

 

 

Wow 

 

 

...It's just makes more funnier because you ended up calling Sasuke's motive weak,LOL

his motive was born after understanding the whole Uchiha situation (even though that was done in such a stupid contrived way ) and how the system was corrupted, granted his methods in how to approach it was wrong but his overall goal was a noble one.

Itachi's just a Konoha/old system apoligist, dare I say Sasuke's best choice in the manga was trying to change the system that brought forth such misforute and misery, and he didn't just do it because of personal reasons ( though those were included) he did it so because he knew it  what it had to be done after learning the whole Uchiha story.

 

The revolution goal was by far the best  solid goal that Sasuke had, it's a shame that between killing Itachi and this one he just flip flopped around and was an overall fickle character. 

 

 

Obtio is an anti Naruto, but his is a horrible one. His character was not developed at all, his redemption felt weak to me and lots of people in the fandom. His characterisation was pretty much terrible, it's a shame that the Obito from kakashi gaiden became this one

2.) Lol no. Gaara had someone looking after him that actually cared about him. He had family, and by the time Naruto had gotten friendly with Iruka, he had friends. 

3.) Once again, Nagato and Naruto weren't similar. The only thing that they had in common was that they trained under Jiraiya. Im not an idiot, I know that Pain was Nagato, hence the statement that Nagato distanced himself from his problems. After Yahiko's death, Nagato's use of the intermediary bodies were an attempt to make his interactions with the world impersonal. He never directly chose to face his problems, rather he elected to instead mediate indirectly. The only time he ever faced his problem head on was when talking to Naruto. Naruto on the other hand, faced his problems up front and personal, and made no attempt to distance himself from the source of his pain, as did Nagato. 

4.) Kakashi's story did not ever suggest that the two were dissimilar. Obito was the black sheep of the clan and the class, the same as Naruto. Obito was regarded as a failure, same as Naruto. Once again, Obito himself, as did Kakashi, said that him and Naruto were exactly alike. 

5.) Really? Madara started a war because he watched his loved ones die. Hashirama wanted to change the system because he watched his loved ones die. Rin was Obito's only light, as Obito said. His circumstances were the same as his. It wasn't badly executed at all, it was literally the same. The only difference was that when Hashirama and Madara's loved ones died, they had people to turn to, Obito did not. 

 

Once again, Sasuke's motive was weak because it made zero sense. He wasn't motivated by Itachi, he was motivated by himself. He didn't truly care about Itachi, else he would have actually decided to adhere to Itachi's will, instead of claim that he was doing everything for Itachi, then spit on his wishes at every turn. Itachi was not a Konoha apologist, he just wanted out. He wanted the conflict to be over. The revolution was stupid because it wasn't what Sasuke wanted, he had absolutely no kittening idea what the hell he was doing, else he wouldn't have been as easy to flip. Nothing Sasuke did ever made any sense, and the his idea of the revolution didn't make sense either. At least with the IT, the goal actually made sense. Sasuke wanted to stop conflict by making conflict, he's a damn idiot. The only thing Sasuke cared about was himself. Obito's redemption was far more meaningful, and he was the only, only candidate that was qualified to be called an anti-Naruto. 

 

But anyway, I'm done. I've been up since 430 and have to work in the morning. 

The only good redemption story is garra.
Nagato because of book.
Obito because naruto win tug of war.
Sasuke because it only 3 chapters left before the ending.

Anyway, obito will meet his dead because he's a mass murder.
While sasuke not dead because he's not mass murder.

Sasuke helped start a war that killed thousands upon thousands, he's as much of a mass murder as Obito. 

Edited by AHK, 01 May 2015 - 03:45 AM.

[BlackBird19]

@AHK: I wasn't saying that kishi didn't intend for Obito to be anti-Naruto, I was just pointing out a couple of reasons why it didn't come off so well. Because according to canon Hinata and Sasuke, not Sakura were the loves of his life and he watched both get stabbed in front of him thinking they were dead and still didn't wreck everything, killing anybody who got in his way. 

[Aizen-Sama]

Sasuke helped start a war that killed thousands upon thousands, he's as much of a mass murder as Obito. 

Well Sasuke didn't directly kill them. There's a difference.

[Shashank95]

Well Sasuke didn't directly kill them. There's a difference.

The one who instigates the crime is as much to blame as the one who commits it. If he didn't go ahead start this mess, would the people have died.

 

That is a weak excuse to pardon Sasuke.

[rocci]

@AHK: I wasn't saying that kishi didn't intend for Obito to be anti-Naruto, I was just pointing out a couple of reasons why it didn't come off so well. Because according to canon Hinata and Sasuke, not Sakura were the loves of his life and he watched both get stabbed in front of him thinking they were dead and still didn't wreck everything, killing anybody who got in his way. 

This is interesting.
Naruto found garra dead body and he goest three tails.
Naruto is the type that will show "care" when someone hurt infront of his eye.
So it's not only exclusive to sasuke and Hinata.

With that said, sakura never get in the situation in what I called "dramatic stab". Because it will lead to a NS situation.

The dead of rin is what I called villain trigger. It's equivalent with
yashamaru dead for garra.
Yahiko dead for nagato.

[rocci]

The one who instigates the crime is as much to blame as the one who commits it. If he didn't go ahead start this mess, would the people have died.
 
That is a weak excuse to pardon Sasuke.

I blame juubi then.

[narusaku256]

when you think about it, primal dialga already exists in pokemon mystery dungeon so...xD

Then the same logic can be applied to other legendaries as well, right?

[AHK]

Well Sasuke didn't directly kill them. There's a difference.

Obito didn't directly kill anybody in the fourth war either, that was all the zetsu clones, Madara, and the juubi

If I were to hand you a loaded gun, and you kill someone kneeling in front of you with the gun that I handed you, both of us are guilty. The same applies.

[Nar123]

2.) Lol no. Gaara had someone looking after him that actually cared about him. He had family, and by the time Naruto had gotten friendly with Iruka, he had friends. 

3.) Once again, Nagato and Naruto weren't similar. The only thing that they had in common was that they trained under Jiraiya. Im not an idiot, I know that Pain was Nagato, hence the statement that Nagato distanced himself from his problems. After Yahiko's death, Nagato's use of the intermediary bodies were an attempt to make his interactions with the world impersonal. He never directly chose to face his problems, rather he elected to instead mediate indirectly. The only time he ever faced his problem head on was when talking to Naruto. Naruto on the other hand, faced his problems up front and personal, and made no attempt to distance himself from the source of his pain, as did Nagato. 

4.) Kakashi's story did not ever suggest that the two were dissimilar. Obito was the black sheep of the clan and the class, the same as Naruto. Obito was regarded as a failure, same as Naruto. Once again, Obito himself, as did Kakashi, said that him and Naruto were exactly alike. 

5.) Really? Madara started a war because he watched his loved ones die. Hashirama wanted to change the system because he watched his loved ones die. Rin was Obito's only light, as Obito said. His circumstances were the same as his. It wasn't badly executed at all, it was literally the same. The only difference was that when Hashirama and Madara's loved ones died, they had people to turn to, Obito did not. 

 

 

 

But anyway, I'm done. I've been up since 430 and have to work in the morning. 

Sasuke helped start a war that killed thousands upon thousands, he's as much of a mass murder as Obito. 

 

2)Didn't you read what I wrote? Gaara's family wasn't worth anything in his life, his father didn't care for him, his siblings were afraid. His only bond was with his uncle, the one who eventually tried to kill him which only ended up further alienating him .

Naruto had no friends, his first real bond was with Iruka (and maybe a rivalry bond with Sasuke could be considered) 

 

3)You're going throughit in the wrong away.

In first place this thing about him becoming "impersonal" is based on your opinion, as far as we know the use of gedo mazo crippled him and forced him to use the Pein bodies to make better use of his own powers. 

In second place, you completely missed the point. Of course they both trained under Jiraya, but not only this, they both adopted Jiraya's philosopy of ideal peace. It's just that that Nagato worked based on extreme realism, and Naruto remained an idealist like Jiraya.

So this makes their whole interaction already more interesting than Obito's one. This actually is complex and has potential, the fight between realism and idealism is there and it ends up with Nagato trusting Naruto.

A good writer would make Naruto develop more after this, make him recognize that the world wouldn't be fixed with idealism only. However as we both know Kishi is not a good writer

 

4)Once again, Obito's situation within the Uchiha clan was NEVER explained, we can only guess, the same with the Uchiha involvement in the kyuubi attack, what you are doing is making up likely headcanons to cover up Kishimoto's lack of explanation

And you are ignoring my points, those being

-Obito's flashback focusing too much on his crush on Rin and never on the more important things about his character

-His connection with Naruto being their past similarities and desire of being hokage, IMO, a lot more simplistic than what was presented

with Gaara and Nagato. That's why Obito is the worst anti Naruto

 

5)Madara started a war because he though the only true peace could come with total domination, afterwards he discoverd the moon's eye plan and tried to use it. Besides we have a whole detailed flashback explaining Hashirama and Madara's relationship and how everything went at the time, in comparision Obito's flashback is pitful

Now I ask of you...Why was Rin Obito's only light? Don't you question why Sakura loved Sasuke so much?  It's the same thing here. Kishi didn't explain why Obito's feelings for Rin were so much more than a single crush. If he had expanded Obito's backstory this could work, however he never did it so, that's why so many people got like "WTF" upon witnessing his reason

It's simple, if you say Obito's backstory and motive were executed well, it's the same as saying you accept the Sakura that loves Sasuke without reason? 

Now now I'm not trying to compare Obirin with SS, Obirin was supportive and kind while SS was anything but. It's just that it it has one thing  in common with SS...it  lacked the reason , it lacked something that explained why Obito felt that way for Rin, he was still only 13, he had a crush... okay but why should we as readers believe he had something more? What was shown to us? 

 

 

Some points about Sasuke's motive

 

Once again, Sasuke's motive was weak because it made zero sense. He wasn't motivated by Itachi, he was motivated by himself. He didn't truly care about Itachi, else he would have actually decided to adhere to Itachi's will, instead of claim that he was doing everything for Itachi, then spit on his wishes at every turn

 

 

-I never said he was motivated by Itachi, I said he was motivated by his knowledge of the past, by the fact that the system is corrupted, Sasuke wanted to make it so disasters like the one with the Uchiha never happened again

 

 

. Itachi was not a Konoha apologist, he just wanted out. He wanted the conflict to be over.

 

 

-Itachi was a konoha apologist deep down, he was loyal to the village, I think you just missed the entire point of his character in trying to negate this

 

 

 The revolution was stupid because it wasn't what Sasuke wanted, he had absolutely no kittening idea what the hell he was doing, else he wouldn't have been as easy to flip.

 

 

-Now what you are doing is justifying Kishi's mistakes. You forgot that Sasuke had a point... the system was corrupted and it needed to change, it's just that his methods of becoming a dictator and shouldering all the hatred was wrong. Just because Kishi disregarded the whole revolution idea in the end it doesn't it mean it doesn't make sense considering the story

Kishi disregarded NS too, so by your POV does this means NS made no sense considering the manga ?

 

 

 

Nothing Sasuke did ever made any sense, and the his idea of the revolution didn't make sense either.

 

 

-Sasuke was right in trying to change the system, his methods however were all wrong. Naruto lacked the vision Sasuke had regarding the shinobi system but he had more peaceful methods. The best thing that could happen is the joining of their forces in looking for a alternative to the shinobi system 

 

 

At least with the IT, the goal actually made sense. Sasuke wanted to stop conflict by making conflict, he's a damn idiot. The only thing Sasuke cared about was himself. Obito's redemption was far more meaningful, and he was the only, only candidate that was qualified to be called an anti-Naruto. 

 

 

 

-Your POV fails because you don't understand how the shinobi world got this peace in first place...through conflict, it was only through Obito's actions that the whole world was united for the first time to fight against his plans. 

So yeah, Kishimoto couldn't even make Naruto the one who raised the alliance through some kind of TnJ to get peace, lol, it had to happen because of the villain

And the IT is horrible, you do know that thing was just something to transform everyone into a zetsu for god knows what don't you? 

 

Obito redemption was kitten, Sasuke redemption was kitten. End of story

 

Calling Obito the only one worthy of being called an anti-Naruto paints you as a fanboy, don't do that. I agree that Obito is an anti Naruto, it's just that he was not the best executed one, that place is for Gaara

Edited by Nar123, 01 May 2015 - 04:29 AM.

[Aizen-Sama]

If I were to hand you a loaded gun, and you kill someone kneeling in front of you with the gun that I handed you, both of us are guilty. The same applies.

Kill people?! O.o Would you like to be my partner in crime? Just kidding. XD

Edited by Aizen-Sama, 01 May 2015 - 04:22 AM.

[Nar123]

The dead of rin is what I called villain trigger. It's equivalent with
yashamaru dead for garra.
Yahiko dead for nagato.

 

The difference being that Obito's relationship with Rin lacked the depth that Yahiko had with Nagato and Yashamaru had with Gaara

[Nar123]

Obito didn't directly kill anybody in the fourth war either, that was all the zetsu clones, Madara, and the juubi

If I were to hand you a loaded gun, and you kill someone kneeling in front of you with the gun that I handed you, both of us are guilty. The same applies.

 

Obito was controlling the Juubi, he was the one handling the gun

Sasuke's only crime were his terrorist actions during the KS arc and the Killer Bee fight, and those had to be addressed in the end at least

 

His role in the war was in the side of the Alliance. Though it would be possible to redeem Sasuke even if he went full villain with the right portrayal 

Edited by Nar123, 01 May 2015 - 04:28 AM.

[AHK]

2)Didn't you read what I wrote? Gaara's family wasn't worth anything in his life, his father didn't care for him, his siblings were afraid. His only bond was with his uncle, the one who eventually tried to kill him which only ended up further alienating him .
Naruto had no friends, his first real bond was with Iruka (and maybe a rivalry bond with Sasuke could be considered) 
 
3)You're going throughit in the wrong away.
In first place this thing about him becoming "impersonal" is based on your opinion, as far as we know the use of gedo mazo crippled him and forced him to use the Pein bodies to make better use of his own powers. 
In second place, you completely missed the point. Of course they both trained under Jiraya, but not only this, they both adopted Jiraya's philosopy of ideal peace. It's just that that Nagato worked based on extreme realism, and Naruto remained an idealist like Jiraya.
So this makes their whole interaction already more interesting than Obito's one. This actually is complex and has potential, the fight between realism and idealism is there and it ends up with Nagato trusting Naruto.
A good writer would make Naruto develop more after this, make him recognize that the world wouldn't be fixed with idealism only. However as we both know Kishi is not a good writer
 
4)Once again, Obito's situation within the Uchiha clan was NEVER explained, we can only guess, the same with the Uchiha involvement in the kyuubi attack, what you are doing is making up likely headcanons to cover up Kishimoto's lack of explanation
And you are ignoring my points, those being
-Obito's flashback focusing too much on his crush on Rin and never on the more important things about his character
-His connection with Naruto being their past similarities and desire of being hokage, IMO, a lot more simplistic than what was presented
with Gaara and Nagato. That's why Obito is the worst anti Naruto
 
5)Madara started a war because he though the only true peace could come with total domination, afterwards he discoverd the moon's eye plan and tried to use it. Besides we have a whole detailed flashback explaining Hashirama and Madara's relationship and how everything went at the time, in comparision Obito's flashback is pitful
Now I ask of you...Why was Rin Obito's only light? Don't you question why Sakura loved Sasuke so much?  It's the same thing here. Kishi didn't explain why Obito's feelings for Rin were so much more than a single crush. If he had expanded Obito's backstory this could work, however he never did it so, that's why so many people got like "WTF" upon witnessing his reason
It's simple, if you say Obito's backstory and motive were executed well, it's the same as saying you accept the Sakura loves Sasuke without reason? 
Now now I'm not trying to compare Obirin with SS, Obirin was supportive and kind while SS was anything but. It's just that it it has one thing  in common with SS...it  lacked the reason , it lacked something that explained why Obito felt that way for Rin, he was still only 13, he had a crush... okay but why should we as readers believe he had something more? What was shown to us? 
 
 
Some points about Sasuke's motive
 

 
-I never said he was motivated by Itachi, I said he was motivated by his knowledge of the past, by the fact that the system is corrupted, Sasuke wanted to make it so disasters like the one with the Uchiha never happened again
 

-Itachi was a konoha apologist deep down, he was loyal to the village, I think you just missed the entire point of his character in trying to negate this
 
 

 
-Now what you are doing is justifying Kishi's mistakes. You forgot that Sasuke had a point... the system was corrupted and it needed to change, it's just that his methods of becoming a dictator and shouldering all the hatred was wrong. Just because Kishi disregarded the whole revolution idea in the end it doesn't it mean it doesn't make sense considering the story
Kishi disregarded NS too, so by your POV does this means NS made no sense considering the manga ?
 
 
 

 
-Sasuke was right in trying to change the system, his methods however were all wrong. Naruto lacked the vision Sasuke had regarding the shinobi system but he had more peaceful methods. The best thing that could happen is the joining of thier forces in looking for a alternative to the shinobi system 
 
 

 
-Your POV fails because you don't understand how the shinobi world got this peace in first place...through conflict, it was only through Obito's actions that the whole world was united for the first time to fight against his plans. 
So yeah, Kishimoto couldn't even make Naruto the one who raised the alliance through some kind of TnJ to get peace, lol, it had to happen because of the villain
And the IT is horrible, you do know that thing was just something to transform everyone into a zetsu for god knows what don't you? 
 
Obito redemption was kitten, Sasuke redemption was kitten. End of story
 
Calling Obito the only one worthy of being called an anit-Naruto paints you as a fanboy, don't do that. I agree that Obito is an anti Naruto, it's just that he was not the best executed one, that place is for Gaara

I'll probably get to the rest of this after I get off work tomorrow, but let me just address this:

It's simple, if you say Obito's backstory and motive were executed well, it's the same as saying you accept the Sakura loves Sasuke without reason?

It seems that maybe you didn't pay attention to anything related to Obito's backstory, else you wouldn't have missed all the times Rin was actually nice to Obito and actually supported him. So no, Obito had a reason to love her, Sakura did not have a reason to love Sasuke. Obito, even in his darkest hour, wasn't nearly as shallow as Sakura was. He actually loved Rin on virtue of how she treated him. Try again later.

Edited by AHK, 01 May 2015 - 04:29 AM.

[griff142]

2)Didn't you read what I wrote? Gaara's family wasn't worth anything in his life, his father didn't care for him, his siblings were afraid. His only bond was with his uncle, the one who eventually tried to kill him which only ended up further alienating him .
Naruto had no friends, his first real bond was with Iruka (and maybe a rivalry bond with Sasuke could be considered) 
 
3)You're going throughit in the wrong away.
In first place this thing about him becoming "impersonal" is based on your opinion, as far as we know the use of gedo mazo crippled him and forced him to use the Pein bodies to make better use of his own powers. 
In second place, you completely missed the point. Of course they both trained under Jiraya, but not only this, they both adopted Jiraya's philosopy of ideal peace. It's just that that Nagato worked based on extreme realism, and Naruto remained an idealist like Jiraya.
So this makes their whole interaction already more interesting than Obito's one. This actually is complex and has potential, the fight between realism and idealism is there and it ends up with Nagato trusting Naruto.
A good writer would make Naruto develop more after this, make him recognize that the world wouldn't be fixed with idealism only. However as we both know Kishi is not a good writer
 
4)Once again, Obito's situation within the Uchiha clan was NEVER explained, we can only guess, the same with the Uchiha involvement in the kyuubi attack, what you are doing is making up likely headcanons to cover up Kishimoto's lack of explanation
And you are ignoring my points, those being
-Obito's flashback focusing too much on his crush on Rin and never on the more important things about his character
-His connection with Naruto being their past similarities and desire of being hokage, IMO, a lot more simplistic than what was presented
with Gaara and Nagato. That's why Obito is the worst anti Naruto
 
5)Madara started a war because he though the only true peace could come with total domination, afterwards he discoverd the moon's eye plan and tried to use it. Besides we have a whole detailed flashback explaining Hashirama and Madara's relationship and how everything went at the time, in comparision Obito's flashback is pitful
Now I ask of you...Why was Rin Obito's only light? Don't you question why Sakura loved Sasuke so much?  It's the same thing here. Kishi didn't explain why Obito's feelings for Rin were so much more than a single crush. If he had expanded Obito's backstory this could work, however he never did it so, that's why so many people got like "WTF" upon witnessing his reason
It's simple, if you say Obito's backstory and motive were executed well, it's the same as saying you accept the Sakura loves Sasuke without reason? 
Now now I'm not trying to compare Obirin with SS, Obirin was supportive and kind while SS was anything but. It's just that it it has one thing  in common with SS...it  lacked the reason , it lacked something that explained why Obito felt that way for Rin, he was still only 13, he had a crush... okay but why should we as readers believe he had something more? What was shown to us? 
 
 
Some points about Sasuke's motive
 

 
-I never said he was motivated by Itachi, I said he was motivated by his knowledge of the past, by the fact that the system is corrupted, Sasuke wanted to make it so disasters like the one with the Uchiha never happened again
 

-Itachi was a konoha apologist deep down, he was loyal to the village, I think you just missed the entire point of his character in trying to negate this
 
 

 
-Now what you are doing is justifying Kishi's mistakes. You forgot that Sasuke had a point... the system was corrupted and it needed to change, it's just that his methods of becoming a dictator and shouldering all the hatred was wrong. Just because Kishi disregarded the whole revolution idea in the end it doesn't it mean it doesn't make sense considering the story
Kishi disregarded NS too, so by your POV does this means NS made no sense considering the manga ?
 
 
 

 
-Sasuke was right in trying to change the system, his methods however were all wrong. Naruto lacked the vision Sasuke had regarding the shinobi system but he had more peaceful methods. The best thing that could happen is the joining of thier forces in looking for a alternative to the shinobi system 
 
 

 
-Your POV fails because you don't understand how the shinobi world got this peace in first place...through conflict, it was only through Obito's actions that the whole world was united for the first time to fight against his plans. 
So yeah, Kishimoto couldn't even make Naruto the one who raised the alliance through some kind of TnJ to get peace, lol, it had to happen because of the villain
And the IT is horrible, you do know that thing was just something to transform everyone into a zetsu for god knows what don't you? 
 
Obito redemption was kitten, Sasuke redemption was kitten. End of story
 
Calling Obito the only one worthy of being called an anit-Naruto paints you as a fanboy, don't do that. I agree that Obito is an anti Naruto, it's just that he was not the best executed one, that place is for Gaara

Okay everybody calm down. We all agree Obito's character was not executed well because of Kishi. He had potential to be good but it didn't come out as well. And we can all agree also that Sasuke's redemption was the worst because it was an asspull.

[AHK]

Kill people?! O.o Would you like to be my partner in crime? Just kidding. XD

  
Are you?

Obito was controlling the Juubi, he was the one handling the gun
Sasuke's only crime were his terrorist actions during the KS arc and the Killer Bee fight, and those had to be addressed in the end at least
 
His role in the war was in the side of the Alliance. Though it would be possible to redeem Sasuke even if he went full villain with the right portrayal

Sasuke's role in the Akatsuki brought Obito a piece of the juubi (ie part of Gyuki) which was a key component in its resurrection. Sasuke is as guilty as Obito for the thousands of people killed by the juubi. Sasuke is a mass murder, just like Obito, he was just as guilty. Obito fought for the alliance too and did more in ten minutes than Sasuke did the entire time , yet you don't give him any free passes you seem content to look the other way while Sasuke was busy trying to murder the 5 Kage for a second time and enslave everyone else

Edited by AHK, 01 May 2015 - 04:36 AM.