12811 replies to this topic

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

Naruto and Obito are only the same on a basic, general level (being the "dead last", more goofy, and crushing on a girl who was crushing on the "genius"). Kakashi also made the mistake of looking at Team Seven as perfect overlapping parallels of his own team, but did not seem to take into consideration their own individual circumstances, personalities, mindsets, etc., basically not looking at them as anything more than virtual reincarnations, the "same" people, but once you get past the surface, you can see that each team member is quite different.

Obito still had a family, a Clan and friends to return to, to help him, and so on. Not to mention that he was not a publicly known Jinchuriki that most people tried to ignore. For all intents and purposes, Obito's life up until his "death" would be a heaven compared to Naruto's. Obito was much more naturally happy and outgoing whereas much of Naruto's was a mask in order to hide the pain he felt inside and his antics were done in order to gain simple acknowledgment from people whether it's positive or negative. The whole part of Obito wanting to become Hokage just feels forced in by Kishi solely to make him seem more relatable to Naruto. And knowing pre-699 Naruto, even if he came across Sasuke actually killing Sakura, I doubt, as pissed off as Naruto would be, he would simply throw everything away and become a virtual nihilist like Obito, but try to get an explanation out of Sasuke for why he did it (and he demonstrated such an attitude with Nagato).

While, yes, Gaara and Nagato don't have as many relatable things to Naruto overall, what they did relate to him on went far deeper than anything we really had between Naruto and Obito. In the same general sense, Kiba is a lot like Naruto.
 

[BlackBird19]

What's funny is that Obito supposedly being the anti-Naruto later on is once again contradicted by Kishi himself in a way with the Land of Waves arc. He thought Sasuke died in his arms and unleashed the Kyuubi's chakra but then came right back under control. Never really losing himself completely in that moment.

 

Then against Pein he sees his supposed love of his life get killed and with a little help from Minato he regains his composure and doesn't lose himself to the darkness. As he's talking to Nagato he doesn't know that Hinata's still alive and knows that both of his senseis are dead at the time and still doesn't lose himself to revenge until he gets the answers he needs from Nagato.

 

So Kishi kind of proved that Naruto and Obito aren't quite as similar as he tried to make them out to be.

[Aizen-Sama]

Naruto going Kyuubi for Hinata is the biggest proof NH has. Basically they say he knew Kakashi was dead, knew Jiraiya was dead, and knew the villagers were dead but it was only when Hinata got poked by Pain that Naruto went psycho.

[rocci]

Parallel =/= copy paste. But obito is the closest one with naruto.

[AHK]

Naruto and Obito are only the same on a basic, general level (being the "dead last", more goofy, and crushing on a girl who was crushing on the "genius"). Kakashi also made the mistake of looking at Team Seven as perfect overlapping parallels of his own team, but did not seem to take into consideration their own individual circumstances, personalities, mindsets, etc., basically not looking at them as anything more than virtual reincarnations, the "same" people, but once you get past the surface, you can see that each team member is quite different.

Obito still had a family, a Clan and friends to return to, to help him, and so on. Not to mention that he was not a publicly known Jinchuriki that most people tried to ignore. For all intents and purposes, Obito's life up until his "death" would be a heaven compared to Naruto's. Obito was much more naturally happy and outgoing whereas much of Naruto's was a mask in order to hide the pain he felt inside and his antics were done in order to gain simple acknowledgment from people whether it's positive or negative. The whole part of Obito wanting to become Hokage just feels forced in by Kishi solely to make him seem more relatable to Naruto. And knowing pre-699 Naruto, even if he came across Sasuke actually killing Sakura, I doubt, as pissed off as Naruto would be, he would simply throw everything away and become a virtual nihilist like Obito, but try to get an explanation out of Sasuke for why he did it (and he demonstrated such an attitude with Nagato).

While, yes, Gaara and Nagato don't have as many relatable things to Naruto overall, what they did relate to him on went far deeper than anything we really had between Naruto and Obito. In the same general sense, Kiba is a lot like Naruto.
 

@bold, no, it was mentioned that Obito was ostracized by the Uchiha and was the black sheep of his clan. Obito was the same in regards to holding his pain in. 

 

What's funny is that Obito supposedly being the anti-Naruto later on is once again contradicted by Kishi himself in a way with the Land of Waves arc. He thought Sasuke died in his arms and unleashed the Kyuubi's chakra but then came right back under control. Never really losing himself completely in that moment.

 

Then against Pein he sees his supposed love of his life get killed and with a little help from Minato he regains his composure and doesn't lose himself to the darkness. As he's talking to Nagato he doesn't know that Hinata's still alive and knows that both of his senseis are dead at the time and still doesn't lose himself to revenge until he gets the answers he needs from Nagato.

 

So Kishi kind of proved that Naruto and Obito aren't quite as similar as he tried to make them out to be.

Sasuke getting hurt at the Land of Waves is exactly like what happened to Kakashi during the rescue attempt for Rin, Naruto losing his kitten against Pain is just like what happened when Obito lost Rin, if it had been Sakura, Naruto would have slaughtered everyone. The examples you provided support the Obito parallel, not undermine them. 

[Nar123]

1.) False. 

2.) Not true. Gaara's hatred of the world stemmed initially from the betrayal of his father and uncle, something Naruto would have never had the opportunity to understand, for obvious reasons. Gaara had to survive murder attempts orchestrated by those who he thought to be closest to him. 

3.) The only thing that Nagato and Naruto had in common was that Jiraiya was their teacher. Even in methodology, they were different. Nagato approached the world from an intellectual, philosophical perspective. Naruto did not. Nagato distanced himself from his problems, Naruto had to experience these things up close and personal. 

4.) And? Obito fits that bill just as much. Obito and Naruto are exactly alike, Obito and Kakashi both remarked how strikingly similar they are, Kakashi went so far as to correctly remark that Obito was trying ferociously to beat Naruto will, simply because if Naruto gave up, then Obito would have felt validation that his original ideas, those same ideals that Naruto possessed, were wrong. 

5.) Just because you think his reason for war was weak doesn't mean it's true. His motivation for changing the system was the same as Hashirama, Madara, Jiraiya, Minato, Hagoromo, etc. in the sense that they all hated the way the system worked. Hashirama wanted to change the system because he hated how it took the lives of his loved ones (his brothers) while Obito wanted the same because he felt that the only person he loved was taken by the same system. If you're going to call Obito's motive weak, then you also need to call Hashirama's weak. If you're going to call Obito's motive weak, then you also need to call Madara's weak. If you're going to call Obito's motive weak, then you also need to call Jiraiya's weak, as he wanted to change the system because he hated seeing loved ones of his and his friends die, the same as Obito. If you're going to call Obito's motive weak, then you also need to call Minato's motive weak, for the same reason as Jiraiya. If you're going to call Obito's motive weak, then you also need to call Naruto's weak, for the very same reason. Just as Nagato said, all reasons for conflict are valid, its the conflict that's the problem. The only fault of Obito is that his methods were terribly wrong. 

 

. 

 

 

2) Gaara  was basically an orphan in his village since his father didn't "care" for him and his siblings were afraid of him, the only person who cared for him (his uncle) tried to kill him. Like Rocci said, he is Naruto if Iruka betrayed him for some reason, he is Naruto  with the lack of any bond, and that's exactly why Naruto was able to get through him, Naruto showed him his strenght came from his bonds and thanks to this he was able to defeat Gaara. IMO this was really the only "good " TnJ in this story

 

 

3)Nope, both of them followed Jiraya's dream of peace. Nagato was awfully realistic and as such used extreme ways to reach that dream however this eventually led to his despair, Naruto was idealistic and his never give up attitude was able to instill some hope in Nagato. The only thing that lacked in this conversation was that it lacked Naruto's ultimate resolve, Naruto's idealistic approach wouldn't work and the story should have shown him that. In the end Naruto should have acquired a balance between the idealistic and realistic approaches. Nagato did not distancied himself from his problems...you mean that because he used the powers of the Rinnegan? LOL you know that the six paths of Pein are him don't you?

 

4) Kakashi said that but what was shown to us through Obito's backstory was a different thing, it was more focused on Rin than anything else, maybe if it had showed us more things related to Obito himself and not his crush on the girl...

Besides Naruto and Obito have obvious similarities but their "deep connection" that the manga showed  was that Obito gave up on his dream of Hokageship, Naruto did not, IMO it's a lot more shallow than the other two. That's why I agree that even though Obito is an anti Naruto,  he is the worst out of all of them.

Naruto's statement regarding Sasuke however came from naruto himself not a third party and it rings true in a certain manner, if their choices had been a little different Naruto could end up as a konoha enemy ( if the years of abuse took it's toll and he had no one) and Sasuke could end up as a konoha protector ( if Itachi's plan worked)

 

5) The problem was how Kishimoto showed this motivation, at first was " Well it's not because Rin is dead..." then it became "it's because Rin's dead ! ", at the same time while Hashirama , Madara and the others had their motivation expanded upon, Obito's one was terribly stupid, okay then his crush died...well best thing to do is to start a war and trap everyone in a genjustu !! If Kishimoto wanted that reason to be valid he had to work on how Obito's situation with the Uchiha was, and exactly why Rin was so important to him. If Kishi had done that I could buy why Obito acted the way he did, and yes of course he had also to fix Obito's sudden change of motives in the story, it made no sense whatsoever 

Comparing Obito's badly executed motive with those of other better executed characters makes no sense really. Besides Minato didn't really want to change the system, he just believed on Jiraya's dream of peace, the same thing with Naruto (unfortunately he never grew up beyond that).

It's funny though because if you think like that then you have to agree that's Sasuke motive for trying to change the system was valid too since his motive to do it made more sense than Obito's

 

 

The only person who's motive you can call weak is Sasuke's, because while he qualifies for the above situations, he fails because his motives were not born from the will of another, rather he was selfish. In the end, while he said that he wanted to do things to avoid another Itachi, he demonstrated the exact opposite. He didn't adhere to Itachi's wishes or advice, and he knew that the path that he was going to take was only going to create more pain and more people like Itachi. The thing is that he didn't care, he was doing things for himself. And before you say that Obito was selfish as well, yes, I know that. But he and Sasuke differ in the sense that Obito was selfish from being blinded, Sasuke was selfish because he wanted to be. Obito and Sasuke are leagues apart. 

 

Obito is, and will always be, the closest thing to an anti-naruto we will ever get, he was the exact polar opposite of Naruto. He is what would have happened to Naruto if Jiraiya, Tsunade, or Sakura had died in his arms. There is no getting past that

 

 

 

Wow 

 

 

...It's just makes more funnier because you ended up calling Sasuke's motive weak,LOL

his motive was born after understanding the whole Uchiha situation (even though that was done in such a stupid contrived way ) and how the system was corrupted, granted his methods in how to approach it was wrong but his overall goal was a noble one.

Itachi's just a Konoha/old system apoligist, dare I say Sasuke's best choice in the manga was trying to change the system that brought forth such misforute and misery, and he didn't just do it because of personal reasons ( though those were included) he did it so because he knew it  what it had to be done after learning the whole Uchiha story.

 

The revolution goal was by far the best  solid goal that Sasuke had, it's a shame that between killing Itachi and this one he just flip flopped around and was an overall fickle character. 

 

 

Obito is an anti Naruto, but he's is a horrible one. His character was not developed at all, his redemption felt weak to me and lots of people in the fandom. His characterization was pretty much terrible, it's a shame that the Obito from kakashi gaiden became this one

Edited by Nar123, 01 May 2015 - 03:41 AM.

[Nar123]

@bold, no, it was mentioned that Obito was ostracized by the Uchiha and was the black sheep of his clan. Obito was the same in regards to holding his pain in. 

 

It was not

 

[Shashank95]

1.) False. 

2.) Not true. Gaara's hatred of the world stemmed initially from the betrayal of his father and uncle, something Naruto would have never had the opportunity to understand, for obvious reasons. Gaara had to survive murder attempts orchestrated by those who he thought to be closest to him. 

3.) The only thing that Nagato and Naruto had in common was that Jiraiya was their teacher. Even in methodology, they were different. Nagato approached the world from an intellectual, philosophical perspective. Naruto did not. Nagato distanced himself from his problems, Naruto had to experience these things up close and personal. 

4.) And? Obito fits that bill just as much. Obito and Naruto are exactly alike, Obito and Kakashi both remarked how strikingly similar they are, Kakashi went so far as to correctly remark that Obito was trying ferociously to beat Naruto will, simply because if Naruto gave up, then Obito would have felt validation that his original ideas, those same ideals that Naruto possessed, were wrong. 

5.) Just because you think his reason for war was weak doesn't mean it's true. His motivation for changing the system was the same as Hashirama, Madara, Jiraiya, Minato, Hagoromo, etc. in the sense that they all hated the way the system worked. Hashirama wanted to change the system because he hated how it took the lives of his loved ones (his brothers) while Obito wanted the same because he felt that the only person he loved was taken by the same system. If you're going to call Obito's motive weak, then you also need to call Hashirama's weak. If you're going to call Obito's motive weak, then you also need to call Madara's weak. If you're going to call Obito's motive weak, then you also need to call Jiraiya's weak, as he wanted to change the system because he hated seeing loved ones of his and his friends die, the same as Obito. If you're going to call Obito's motive weak, then you also need to call Minato's motive weak, for the same reason as Jiraiya. If you're going to call Obito's motive weak, then you also need to call Naruto's weak, for the very same reason. The only fault of Obito is that his methods were terribly wrong. 

 

The only person who's motive you can call weak is Sasuke's, because while he qualifies for the above situations, he fails because his motives were not born from the will of another, rather he was selfish. In the end, while he said that he wanted to do things to avoid another Itachi, he demonstrated the exact opposite. He didn't adhere to Itachi's wishes or advice, and he knew that the path that he was going to take was only going to create more pain and more people like Itachi. The thing is that he didn't care, he was doing things for himself. And before you say that Obito was selfish as well, yes, I know that. But he and Sasuke differ in the sense that Obito was selfish from being blinded, Sasuke was selfish because he wanted to be. Obito and Sasuke are leagues apart. 

 

Obito is, and will always be, the closest thing to an anti-naruto we will ever get, he was the exact polar opposite of Naruto. He is what would have happened to Naruto if Jiraiya, Tsunade, or Sakura had died in his arms. There is no getting past that. 

 

Ran out of likes.... But i agree.

[Shashank95]

What's funny is that Obito supposedly being the anti-Naruto later on is once again contradicted by Kishi himself in a way with the Land of Waves arc. He thought Sasuke died in his arms and unleashed the Kyuubi's chakra but then came right back under control. Never really losing himself completely in that moment.

 

Then against Pein he sees his supposed love of his life get killed and with a little help from Minato he regains his composure and doesn't lose himself to the darkness. As he's talking to Nagato he doesn't know that Hinata's still alive and knows that both of his senseis are dead at the time and still doesn't lose himself to revenge until he gets the answers he needs from Nagato.

 

So Kishi kind of proved that Naruto and Obito aren't quite as similar as he tried to make them out to be.

Ah the problem here is that none of his loved ones actually dies in front of his eyes.

 

He heard of Jiraiya's death from Tsunade, i don't think he heard of Kakashi's death......... none of the death of his supposed loved ones were infront of his eyes like Obito's.

 

Obito saw Rin getting stabbed right infront of his eyes. Did the same thing happen to Naruto in the occassions other than Wave arc...??
Even then he almost killed Haku before he realised what he was doing. This was the difference between Obito and Naruto.

 

They are similar yet different.

[Aizen-Sama]

Ah the problem here is that none of his loved ones actually dies in front of his eyes.
 
He heard of Jiraiya's death from Tsunade, i don't think he heard of Kakashi's death......... none of the death of his supposed loved ones were infront of his eyes like Obito's.
 
Obito saw Rin getting stabbed right infront of his eyes. Did the same thing happen to Naruto in the occassions other than Wave arc...??
Even then he almost killed Haku before he realised what he was doing. This was the difference between Obito and Naruto.
 
They are similar yet different.

Naruto saw Hinata getting stabbed in front of him and he went psycho but he didn't start World War 3 cuz of her. Hah, eat that NH!!

[Nar123]

@nar123


No. That's why I said it only strengthen NS.
 

 

It could work as a better basis for Naruto's and Obito's character too, if Obito had brought that up it would lead to some NS hints yeah but it would also lead to his and Naruto's  progression as a character

 

Essentially, Kishimoto chose between doing it ( further estabilishing NS and making better character development ) and not doing it, ( make pairing teases easier but on the other hand making his characters lacking more on the character development section ). He chose the second, obviously.

Edited by Nar123, 01 May 2015 - 03:06 AM.

[griff142]

@bold, no, it was mentioned that Obito was ostracized by the Uchiha and was the black sheep of his clan. Obito was the same in regards to holding his pain in. 
 

Sasuke getting hurt at the Land of Waves is exactly like what happened to Kakashi during the rescue attempt for Rin, Naruto losing his kitten against Pain is just like what happened when Obito lost Rin, if it had been Sakura, Naruto would have slaughtered everyone. The examples you provided support the Obito parallel, not undermine them.

I agree Obito minus the lackluster development surrounding Obito he would have fit the bill the best when it comes to anti Narutos. Unlike most people I was able to see the potential Obito had so I was able to like him.
If Kishi didn't screw up Obito and the story we could have had a very good final villain if done right. You could tell Obito was bot very liked like Naruto and the romance patella was there. Obito was a tragic character since he couldn't live up to his potential. Once again another ruined character by Kishimoto himself. Lets just say what could have been with Obito.

[Shashank95]

 

Obtio is an anti Naruto, but his is a horrible one. His character was not developed at all, his redemption felt weak to me and lots of people in the fandom. His characterisation was pretty much terrible, it's a shame that the Obito from kakashi gaiden became this one

 

If you call Obito's redemption weak then what would you say about Sasuke's ??

 

He openly threatened to execute all the KAGES of the villages and yet after one kitten fight, he magically apologizes to Sakura and Voila crimes erased.

 

Sasuke's redemption was the most retarded of them all.

[Shashank95]

Naruto saw Hinata getting stabbed in front of him and he went psycho but he didn't start World War 3 cuz of her. Hah, eat that NH!!

 

Deus Ex Machina Minato was there to stop him...... and did you forget the untold amount of rage he released when he went kitten insane ??

 

There was nobody to help obito when Rin was killed..... He was further manipulated by Madara after that event. Tell me what would have happened to Naruto had Minato not intervened ??

[Nar123]

 

If you call Obito's redemption weak then what would you say about Sasuke's ??

 

He openly threatened to execute all the KAGES of the villages and yet after one sh*tty fight, he magically apologizes to Sakura and Voila crimes erased.

 

Sasuke's redemption was the most retarded of them all.

 

It was weak too

 

In first place Sasuke's redemption felt half assed... and then Kishi had to go and trash all around his goal too, making him essentially forget all about it just because Naruto punched him hard enough

Edited by Nar123, 01 May 2015 - 03:10 AM.

[Shashank95]

 

It was weak too

Weak would be the understatement of the century   

[Nar123]

Weak would be the understatement of the century   

 

Can't we just all agree that Kishi was a kitten writer? 

 

Sasuke's redemption could go just fine if he played his cards right, or if the Naruto vs Sasuke fight wasn't left for last and then Sasuke had more time to recognize his mistakes. Kishi could've easily shown us a trial for example.

[rocci]

The only good redemption story is garra.
Nagato because of book.
Obito because naruto win tug of war.
Sasuke because it only 3 chapters left before the ending.

Anyway, obito will meet his dead because he's a mass murder.
While sasuke not dead because he's not mass murder.

[Shashank95]

 

Can't we just all agree that Kishi was a sh*tty writer? 

 

Sasuke's redemption could go just fine if he played his cards right, or if the Naruto vs Sasuke fight wasn't left for last and then Sasuke had more time to recognize his mistakes. Kishi could've easily shown us a trial for example.

Actually anything other than Sasuke paying for his crimes would be kitten writing.

 

You just can't forget a guy creating havoc, killing people, maiming the raikage.......
He should have been punished, I never liked that guy but Kishi's pampering for that self absorbed prick made me completely hate his guts.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

The only good redemption story is garra.
Nagato because of book.
Obito because naruto win tug of war.
Sasuke because it only 3 chapters left before the ending.

Anyway, obito will meet his dead because he's a mass murder.
While sasuke not dead because he's not mass murder.

 

I agree about Gaara. Though Obito's could have been better. At least he didn't wish to die a monster.