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Boruto - the movie

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#3801 starlitestarbrite

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Posted 28 August 2015 - 10:46 PM

Sasuke is a big part of the reason why these characters were butchered. I don't think it's possible for anyone to tell me he made Naruto and Sakura into better characters. Not one bit.

 

I'd go as far to say Sasuke's the reason is the reason NS didn't happen. Sakura couldn't move on from him, for whatever reason, and they used Naruto-Sasuke rivalry as a scapegoat to completely extinguish Naruto's feelings for Sakura.

 

He's the one character in the series that I just wanted to see go away, but instead Sasuke eclisped Naruto as the main character and now he's never going away because SP knows he's a big part of the money making machine. That's been made pretty clear by the success of the Boruto movie.

and scumbag naruto's answer to sasuke stealing his spotlight, his series going down the toliet, and his dreams becoming nightnares:

 


Edited by starlitestarbrite, 28 August 2015 - 10:50 PM.


#3802 ultranx

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Posted 28 August 2015 - 11:24 PM

Probably not because they erased her from existence.

wait they retconned kushina? 0.o


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#3803 Nostradamus

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Posted 28 August 2015 - 11:27 PM

wait they retconned kushina? 0.o

In a way. What I meant is that in the last they didn't mention her by name. They just said his late mom if I'm not mistaken.


                         CZSn9hA.jpg
 
Which I've told you - time and time again - is dangerous! There will never be consensus, son, among those you have helped to ascend. They will all differ in their views of what it means to be free. The peace you so desperately seek does not exist.
 
These men are united now by a common cause. But when this battle is finished they will fall to fighting amongst themselves about how best to ensure control. In time it will lead to war. You will see.


#3804 SlyNinjaKnight

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    Wish that Kishi would just stop trying to 'fix' Naruto, I guess that no one ever told him the phrase 'digging your own grave'. I will remember fondly the characters that made me love Naruto that were sacrificed at the all-mighty altar that is money (and crazy fan boys/girls).

Posted 28 August 2015 - 11:36 PM

 

Ugh, I never liked Sasuke. At all. There are so many examples of his type of character I could list that are waaay better written. But that could probably go for all the characters. I don't really like any of them anymore, they're all butchered.

 

 

Sasuke is a big part of the reason why these characters were butchered. I don't think it's possible for anyone to tell me he made Naruto and Sakura into better characters. Not one bit.

 

I'd go as far to say Sasuke's the reason is the reason NS didn't happen. Sakura couldn't move on from him, for whatever reason, and they used Naruto-Sasuke rivalry as a scapegoat to completely extinguish Naruto's feelings for Sakura.

 

He's the one character in the series that I just wanted to see go away, but instead Sasuke eclisped Naruto as the main character and now he's never going away because SP knows he's a big part of the money making machine. That's been made pretty clear by the success of the Boruto movie.

 

I tolerated Sasuke in Part One because you could see that Sasuke was starting to turn away from his avenger ways with his interactions with Team 7 but Part Two Sasuke totally destroyed any characterization and growth that he might have had in Part One because Kishi totally reverted him to a revenge-obsessed emo prick (though I did like his interactions with Taka). And all of Naruto and Sakura's characterization and growth were sacrificed at the alter of the all-might Sasuke. The fact that Kishi had to use the excuse of Naruto not knowing about love (when he was the most empathetic character in the series, Talk-No-Jutsu) is the biggest slap in the face in literature/manga that I have ever read. I hope that the money that Kishi got/gets from Naruto is worth it after totally destroying a very successful and popular manga/anime.

 

I would have had Sasuke die during the final battle against Madara (totally erasing Kaguya and that ridiculousness), perhaps in a similar way as the Wave Arc as a Circle Theory point. Then show Naruto, Sakura and the others react and grow from Sasuke's death and the War (since so many of the older characters talk about how war is something to be avoided at all costs, yet it seems that this last war didn't affect the characters in any meaningful way) and have the final chapter of the manga showing Naruto's inauguration to Hokage with Kakashi, Tsunade and Gaara standing up with him, with panels of Sakura, the Konoha 11, Iruka and Konohamaru, etc looking on proudly. You wouldn't even need to show any hints regarding pairings, leaving it open to the fans. 

 

But of course we know how Kishi went about it, taking the 'kowtowing' route rather than standing up for his creation.



#3805 Nar123

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Posted 29 August 2015 - 12:46 AM

Sasuke is a big part of the reason why these characters were butchered. I don't think it's possible for anyone to tell me he made Naruto and Sakura into better characters. Not one bit.

 

I'd go as far to say Sasuke's the reason is the reason NS didn't happen. Sakura couldn't move on from him, for whatever reason, and they used Naruto-Sasuke rivalry as a scapegoat to completely extinguish Naruto's feelings for Sakura.

 

He's the one character in the series that I just wanted to see go away, but instead Sasuke eclisped Naruto as the main character and now he's never going away because SP knows he's a big part of the money making machine. That's been made pretty clear by the success of the Boruto movie.

 

Why Sasuke eclipsed Naruto as a MC? 

Because of popularity

 

Why did the author followed popularity?

Because that's the way he works, unfortunately

 

Ultimately the one to blame for the character shortcomings are Kishi


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#3806 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 29 August 2015 - 12:47 AM

 
Why Sasuke eclipsed Naruto as a MC? 
Because of popularity
 
Why did the author followed popularity?
Because that's the way he works, unfortunately
 
Ultimately the one to blame for the character shortcomings are Kishi

Maybe he should have done a Popularity Poll Arc.

#3807 RedFaction

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Posted 29 August 2015 - 01:00 AM

 

Why Sasuke eclipsed Naruto as a MC? 

Because of popularity

 

Why did the author followed popularity?

Because that's the way he works, unfortunately

 

Ultimately the one to blame for the character shortcomings are Kishi

Yep, it's Kishi's fault that Naruto wasn't the most popular character.

 

If you look at any One Piece popularity poll, you'll see Luffy #1 everytime because he's the actual main character.


 


#3808 Nar123

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Posted 29 August 2015 - 01:08 AM

Yep, it's Kishi's fault that Naruto wasn't the most popular character.

 

If you look at any One Piece popularity poll, you'll see Luffy #1 everytime because he's the actual main character.

 

I think a big part of the problem was when Kishi decided to make Naruto's main drive in part 2 to be to save Sasuke

 

Okay, he could estabilish saving Sasuke as a goal,sure... but at the same time he didn't had to make Naruto centered about only that, I mean why did he not create a non Sasuke centered arc where Naruto is the star ( meanwhile also using side characters that were forgotten as a bonus )?  In part 2 that just happened two times, just two for a MC is awfully pathetic..the first arc and Pein arc were the only arcs where Naruto was unquestionably the MC

 

So yeah, I think Kishi dropped the ball after he made Sasuke have such a big agency and role in the story where Naruto was just the one that reacted to the things Sasuke made

 

In OP, we see Luffy wrecking kitten after kitten , we see him being recognized and his bounty getting higher and higher each new arc, Naruto only got the small scene after Pein arc and after that he was back to being " the guy who reacts to things Sasuke does" that's why when I say that part 2 could've easily be called Sasuke I'm not kidding


Edited by Nar123, 29 August 2015 - 01:10 AM.

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#3809 Nostradamus

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Posted 29 August 2015 - 01:13 AM

Yep, it's Kishi's fault that Naruto wasn't the most popular character.

 

If you look at any One Piece popularity poll, you'll see Luffy #1 everytime because he's the actual main character.

Exactly it's his own fault for Naruto not being the most popular. He was the one that kept shoving Sasuke in everything. Including the Uzumaki's. It boggles my mind that Naruto being a freaking Uzumaki found out close to nothing about his own clan but Sasuke being an Uchiha just walks in the Uzumaki's shrine like it was his. Oh wait I forgot it was his. We just read it wrong. We just thought that Naruto is the main character.


                         CZSn9hA.jpg
 
Which I've told you - time and time again - is dangerous! There will never be consensus, son, among those you have helped to ascend. They will all differ in their views of what it means to be free. The peace you so desperately seek does not exist.
 
These men are united now by a common cause. But when this battle is finished they will fall to fighting amongst themselves about how best to ensure control. In time it will lead to war. You will see.


#3810 Nar123

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Posted 29 August 2015 - 01:32 AM

Maybe he should have done a Popularity Poll Arc.

 

*shots fired*  XD


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#3811 RedFaction

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Posted 29 August 2015 - 01:34 AM

 

I think a big part of the problem was when Kishi decided to make Naruto's main drive in part 2 to be to save Sasuke

 

Okay, he could estabilish saving Sasuke as a goal,sure... but at the same time he didn't had to make Naruto centered about only that, I mean why did he not create a non Sasuke centered arc where Naruto is the star ( meanwhile also using side characters that were forgotten as a bonus )?  In part 2 that just happened two times, just two for a MC is awfully pathetic..the first arc and Pein arc were the only arcs where Naruto was unquestionably the MC

 

So yeah, I think Kishi dropped the ball after he made Sasuke have such a big agency and role in the story where Naruto was just the one that reacted to the things Sasuke made

 

In OP, we see Luffy wrecking kitten after kitten , we see him being recognized and his bounty getting higher and higher each new arc, Naruto only got the small scene after Pein arc and after that he was back to being " the guy who reacts to things Sasuke does" that's why when I say that part 2 could've easily be called Sasuke I'm not kidding

 

Exactly it's his own fault for Naruto not being the most popular. He was the one that kept shoving Sasuke in everything. Including the Uzumaki's. It boggles my mind that Naruto being a freaking Uzumaki found out close to nothing about his own clan but Sasuke being an Uchiha just walks in the Uzumaki's shrine like it was his. Oh wait I forgot it was his. We just read it wrong. We just thought that Naruto is the main character.

In One Piece the quest is for the One Piece, but in Naruto the quest is for Sasuke and there lies the problem.

 

If Sasuke didn't exist the story would change, but that would remove the core problem and we would have had more Naruto-centric arcs like it should have been in the first place.


 


#3812 Nar123

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Posted 29 August 2015 - 01:40 AM

 

In One Piece the quest is for the One Piece, but in Naruto the quest is for Sasuke and there lies the problem.

 

If Sasuke didn't exist the story would change, but that would remove the core problem and we would have had more Naruto-centric arcs like it should have been in the first place.

 

Well sure, but I think things could've worked out fine even if Sasuke still existed...IMO Kishi just had to make Sasuke more of a mystery factor than an actual protagonist, his character works better like that

 

If, for example after the Sasuke x Itachi fight we only heard about what Sasuke was doing through Naruto and his current situation remained a mystery, things could've worked out much better because not only would Sasuke not end up stealing the spotlight but the impact when he appeared as a true antagonist  (for the time being ) showing off his new goal would be much more powerful 

 

Meanwhile Kishi could've used more time between Itachi and Jiraya's death to develop Naruto's goals, his heritage, things like that


Edited by Nar123, 29 August 2015 - 01:40 AM.

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#3813 RedFaction

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Posted 29 August 2015 - 01:53 AM

 

Well sure, but I think things could've worked out fine even if Sasuke still existed...IMO Kishi just had to make Sasuke more of a mystery factor than an actual protagonist, his character works better like that

 

If, for example after the Sasuke x Itachi fight we only heard about what Sasuke was doing through Naruto and his current situation remained a mystery, things could've worked out much better because not only would Sasuke not end up stealing the spotlight but the impact when he appeared as a true antagonist  (for the time being ) showing off his new goal would be much more powerful 

 

Meanwhile Kishi could've used more time between Itachi and Jiraya's death to develop Naruto's goals, his heritage, things like that

Honestly, I really think we would have needed a different writer to make Sasuke work. I just don't trust Kishi as a writer, and if he took another direction with Sasuke I'm sure he would still find a way to screw it up. In all of part 2, I did not feel sympathic towards Sasuke even once and that was the character Kishi was attemping to paint him as. It did not work one bit.

 

Sasuke just fails as a character in every aspect when we have Kishi writing him. So, just my opinion, either Naruto needed a different writer to have Sasuke work or have him not exist at all because otherwise we would get exactly what we are stuck with now.


Edited by RedFaction, 29 August 2015 - 01:56 AM.

 


#3814 LuckyChi7

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Posted 29 August 2015 - 02:42 AM

You know here is what I think should've happened when it came Part 2 and you would have to slightly tweak the ending of Part 1 for it to work..

 

 

A semi-change to Part 1's Ending:

 

Instead of Naruto losing to Sasuke at the end of Part 1, he defeats Sasuke and brings him back to the village. Sakura could still end up training under Tsunade after witnessing how far Naruto was willing to go to save Sasuke for her. Sakura witness's the beating that Naruto took from Sasuke and sort of regrets it because she believes that she was the cause of his injuries. Sasuke having learned his lesson values Naruto's life even greater and vows that next time he and Naruto fight it won't be so easy for him. Despite gaining self-respect for the people around him Sasuke vows that he still wants revenge for what Itachi did towards the Uchiha Clan.  Learning from Jiraiya that the Akatsutsuki are after him, Naruto vows that he will stop all the Akatsutski members and that he will be stronger the next time he returns. Part 1 ends with Naruto leaving the village with Jiraiya as it did originally. 

 

 

Here is how Part 2 could work with the Part 1 ending I'm suggesting   (Not I don't have the entirety of Part 2 figured out): 

 

Rescue Kazekage Arc:

 

Opens up the same way as the manga did with Naruto and Jiraiya returning alongside Sakura and Tsunade welcoming them for their return. Kakashi and Sasuke are training and the test to see their skill is for Naruto and Sakura to team up in a battle against Sasuke. Showcasing his abilities Naruto goes into the battle with Sage Mode against Sasuke surprising Sakura, Kakashi, and Tsunade (obviously not Jiraiya).  Throwing off Sasuke, Sakura uses his "monster strength" with Naruto dodging the impact as they both defeat their teammate. Using Sage mode puts a toll on Naruto as he hasn't completely mastered it as of yet which Sakura compliments Naruto of how she found it impressive. 

 

Sasuke at the very least would've learned Chidori stream and possibly Chidori light blade (with his sword) with the test fight, and the fight itself would be relatively the same as it was in Part 1.  The rest of the arc continues to be the same with Deidara and Sasori capturing Gaara alongside Team Kakashi and Team Guy coming in to fulfill their duty. Naruto would still go into his one tail bursting two tails and of course Chiyo's speech to Sakura about choosing her jutsu to save somebody she deeply cares about rather than an old hag like her, and of course with her dying. Even though Naruto would be relieved with Gaara saving he would vow that the Akatsutski need to be stopped, and possibly sensing Tobi from the distance maybe like see his shadow before he disappears. 

 

 

Sai and Sasuke Arc would be removed for obvious reasons in the context of this version of Part 2. 

 

 

Hidan and Kakuzu arc could still work you just have Team 7 training together while the events still playout the same way as they before.  Only you have Sakura unlock the Byakugou seal here, Naruto gaining his wind nature and possibly learning another jutsu like the flying thunder god (not master just learn it), and Sasuke could possibly learn about Hawk summoning during the training. Everything ends  once again you see Tobi watching from the distance of the battle as he notes Kakashi still hasn't changed that much, and how he's gonna try harder to capture Naruto Uzumaki and has some interest regarding Sasuke Uchiha.

 

 

Persuit of Itachi I see is the arc where Orochimaru comes back into play because Tobi not only wants Naruto captured, but he has personal buisness with Sasuke.  Both of these character have on common goal getting Sasuke, and knowing that Itachi is on the move to capture Naruto, Kakashi decides to split the team with Sasuke and Kakashi dealing with Itachi while Naruto and Sakura deal with Orochimaru.

 

Ironically here is how the battle would playout for Naruto and Sakura vs Orochimaru, the setting would be at the Heaven and Earth Bridge. Orochimaru taunts Naruto about how useless he is compared to Sasuke which makes his blood boil getting him to the point of hitting four tails after attempting to catch him off guard by attempting to kill Sakura. Since this would cause Naruto to hit Four tails, we have a similar scene with Sakura trying to stop Naruto and ultimately succeeds with them seemingly defeating Orochimaru. Sakura ultimately recalls something Tsunade taught her about a jinchuriki when they become the monster and recall what Lady Chiyo said using the jutsu (Yamato would've used) to revert Naruto to what he was before he  went insane against Orochimaru. 

 

 

For the Sasuke and Kakashi vs Itachi fight lets just say that Kakashi does whatever it takes against Itachi before he falls under the same jutsu Itachi put him under back in Part 1. That would ultimately lead to Sasuke and Itachi having their fight with the Susanoo and Orochimaru reappearing before getting stabbed by the Totska Blade.  Itachi dies by the hands of Sasuke, who of course passes out from Exhaustion while Tobi shows up taking Sasuke and looking at the unconscious Kakashi stating how once again he couldn't protect anyone just like her.. (alluding to Rin) and then disappears.

 

Arc ends with Naruto waking up from his hospital bed with Sakura by his side looking concerned and Naruto giving his smart ass smile tells her it's nothing to worry to about before getting a slap from Sakura as well as a hug causing her to burst in tears leaving him confused. Sakura while crying tells Naruto to never go that far again for her sake which ultimately makes him smile. While doing so Naruto realizes that Sasuke isn't there and Sakura once again looks sadden about it before he tells him "Kakashi said told me that Sasuke disappeared after the fight against Itachi."   Finally we have the same scene occur between Sasuke and Tobi about The revelation behind Itachi Uchiha and we have the arc conclude with Tobi telling Sasuke "Itachi swore to protect Konoha, and now that you know the truth what will you do, Sasuke?"

 

The reason why I would end it like that is because you wouldn't really know what path Sasuke would chose after hearing the truth. 

    

 

Well that's as far as my ideas would go for Part 2 with a bit of tweaking from Part 1's ending. 


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#3815 Catra

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Posted 29 August 2015 - 02:57 AM

well i would still watch past anime but never again newer anime.

 

i'll still watch

 

ruroni kenshin

outlaw star

gundam 00

cyborg 009

yu yu hakusho

 

etc.


Edited by Catra, 29 August 2015 - 03:09 AM.


#3816 BlackBird19

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Posted 29 August 2015 - 04:52 AM

I always felt that the moment they explained the Uchiha massacre the way they did, turning Itachi into a tragic character, was the moment that the manga's focus was completely taken away from the title character. When that happened I knew that the Uchiha would continue to play a far too important role in the story and the focus on Naruto could become less and less.

 

And that's exactly what happened. This plot lead to more focus on Sasuke and what he would do to avenge his brother and then later on his clan, truly setting up his redemption story no matter how bad or rushed it was. Instead of allowing Sasuke or one of the other villains to become a true antagonist to Naruto and not just the shinobi world as a whole.

 

Considering the path that this story was originally on, if Sasuke had been allowed to be a true villain and actual antagonist to Naruto it would have helped keep the majority of the focus on Naruto and the other characters without needing Sasuke to have as much panel time.to help explain his role in the manga. It would've kept Sasuke a bit of a mystery the way Itachi was at the beginning of the story. This also would've allowed more panel time to delve further into Naruto's family history and highlight some more of the other side characters. 

 

Kishi is just not enough of a writer to be able to pull off the complex story he tried to portray with Sasuke and the Uchiha clan and make it believable or satisfactory.   



#3817 Atheck

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Posted 29 August 2015 - 06:05 AM

Sasuke still has plenty of blood on his hands, no matter how Kishi tries to absolve him of his past crimes. The only reason why he's not being escorted to a tribunal in chains is because of some half-assed excuse about him being one of the key players who helped bring an end to the 4th shinboi world war; while that may be true, it was made explicitly clear by Sasuke himself that he was only fighting to preserve his own ideology. Exonerating him for something like mutually assured survival would be the equivalent to handing Orochimaru a clean slate to continue kidnapping, torturing, and experimenting on innocent people for his own aims simply because he showed up close to the end to throw some snakes around a tree branch and bite Spiral Zetsu on the neck. Ironically, that's what happened since he's apparently in the spin-off according to people who have read it with no one batting an eye that this sociopathic mad man is still on the loose.



#3818 Yyubie

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Posted 29 August 2015 - 06:54 AM

The thing that make me scare the most is, in the future my kid or any other kid doing something bad and then when asked why you do that, they simply said 'Why sasuke in naruto anime can do it but he still be considered hero and never got punish ? why only me ? its not fair!!'


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#3819 Namikaze Clan

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Posted 29 August 2015 - 07:02 AM

Sasuke still has plenty of blood on his hands, no matter how Kishi tries to absolve him of his past crimes. The only reason why he's not being escorted to a tribunal in chains is because of some half-assed excuse about him being one of the key players who helped bring an end to the 4th shinboi world war; while that may be true, it was made explicitly clear by Sasuke himself that he was only fighting to preserve his own ideology. Exonerating him for something like mutually assured survival would be the equivalent to handing Orochimaru a clean slate to continue kidnapping, torturing, and experimenting on innocent people for his own aims simply because he showed up close to the end to throw some snakes around a tree branch and bite Spiral Zetsu on the neck. Ironically, that's what happened since he's apparently in the spin-off according to people who have read it with no one batting an eye that this sociopathic mad man is still on the loose.


Well, Orochimaru going unpunished may have to do with his son.

But yeah it's all total BS

#3820 HalfDemonInuyasha

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Posted 29 August 2015 - 08:14 AM

Sasuke still has plenty of blood on his hands, no matter how Kishi tries to absolve him of his past crimes. The only reason why he's not being escorted to a tribunal in chains is because of some half-assed excuse about him being one of the key players who helped bring an end to the 4th shinboi world war; while that may be true, it was made explicitly clear by Sasuke himself that he was only fighting to preserve his own ideology. Exonerating him for something like mutually assured survival would be the equivalent to handing Orochimaru a clean slate to continue kidnapping, torturing, and experimenting on innocent people for his own aims simply because he showed up close to the end to throw some snakes around a tree branch and bite Spiral Zetsu on the neck. Ironically, that's what happened since he's apparently in the spin-off according to people who have read it with no one batting an eye that this sociopathic mad man is still on the loose.

As I mentioned before, there's forgiveness, but no responsibility for one's actions. Forgiveness is just fine, but that should not automatically mean that the person being forgiven should not be made to pay for their transgression(s). It would be like if, after the family's of the victims of Dylan Roof's terrorism forgave him for what he did (they did forgive him), that the authorities just let him go without question. You can bet that if such a thing happened that a chunk of the country would be burning right now.

 

The thing that make me scare the most is, in the future my kid or any other kid doing something bad and then when asked why you do that, they simply said 'Why sasuke in naruto anime can do it but he still be considered hero and never got punish ? why only me ? its not fair!!'

The ending contradicted many messages from part one, but Sasuke being let off scot-free is one of the worst messages that could be sent, especially to a younger audience. It basically says that you can do as much bad, even evil crap that you want and that as long as you come from a rich, well-known, influential, etc. family and/or from a "special" lineage, you'll always be let off somehow, whether it be people simply trying to be a kiss-ass to earn favors from you and/or the family or the family, in some way, bribing the right people to make sure nothing bad happens to you. This is exactly a big problem in the US as we speak on every level, so to see a story actually condoning the types of things we see such politicians, big corporate CEOs, and so on, do that screws over other, usually innocent and unsuspecting people, all to further their own greedy and selfish agendas (just like, as mentioned, Sasuke didn't "help" to help anyone, but just to get rid of an obstacle in his way), just really pisses me off (add in the corporate-owned media, at worst, ignoring such things completely or ,at best, doing the "both sides are at fault" justification constantly, and it's no surprise people are so uninformed).


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