549 replies to this topic

[Tsuki Hoshino]

That traditional stance on Confucianism, along with economic issues, is one of the main reasons that Japan's population is decreasing, growing older and seeing birthrates consistently lower. So it has become a problem for them.  

I was LITERALLY just writing about this.

Its no wonder Japanese women don't wanna get married and have kids, when their own individualism/needs/desires are expected to magically disappear once they marry a man. Because at that point everything is supposed to become for the sake of the husband. a woman's worth once she has children is then JUDGED by the child. If your kid is bad at school= you are a bad mom. 

[rocci]

That traditional stance on Confucianism, along with economic issues, is one of the main reasons that Japan's population is decreasing, growing older and seeing birthrates consistently lower. So it has become a problem for them.  

I don't think Confucianism is the problem with that birth rate decline.
Since china nor korea doesn't share the same problem. Especially china since that's the country where Confucius come from.

Japanese Economic is the problem.

[Tsuki Hoshino]

I don't think Confucianism is the problem with that birth rate decline.
Since china nor korea doesn't share the same problem. Especially china since that's the country where Confucius come from.

Japanese Economic is the problem.

Actually, a big portion of it according to sociologists has to do with the feminist movement ( from what I'VE read.) but i'm sure there are economic components of it. 

China...China is a different ball game from Japan. They may share social norms, but their economic and political situation is completely different. 

[BlackBird19]

China is considering raising their 1 child per family limit to 2 because they are starting to see the writing on the wall in terms of it's birthrate lowering. There are supposedly less new families in China as well. You also have to factor in a completely different form of government in China.

[Tsuki Hoshino]

China is considering raising their 1 child per family limit to 2 because they are starting to see the writing on the wall in terms of it's birthrate lowering. There are supposedly less new families in China as well. You also have to factor in a completely different form of government in China.

More importantly males out number female children in China thanks to that human right's travesty. 

So no matter what they do, their projected birth rate has already taken a heavy hit from that. 
 

[rocci]

Actually, a big portion of it according to sociologists has to do with the feminist movement ( from what I'VE read.) but i'm sure there are economic components of it. 

China...China is a different ball game from Japan. They may share social norms, but their economic and political situation is completely different. 

I don't think it has something to do with that. It's always about economic.

The different with china is their bubble doesn't burst (yet).

[Tsuki Hoshino]

I don't think it has something to do with that. It's always about economic.

The different with china is their bubble doesn't burst (yet).

 

Lets break it down like this though; Women want power, how do they get power? by being housewives? nooo by getting a job, and earning their own money. 

Japan is going through a cultural change, where once people were expected to work for the benefit of SOCIETY as a whole, the younger generation--particularly females are choosing to follow the path of SELF-fulfillment. In that way they are becoming more "Americanized." its not about the mass, its about the individual. 

There are numerous articles on this, and not many of them point to economy being the incentive, but people, particularly women--being tired of following societal norms. For every culture there is a counter culture, and its only a matter of time before counter culture takes over and the cycle continues on. 

If you don't believe it, its no skin off my back. 



 

Edited by Tsuki Hoshino, 28 February 2016 - 03:22 AM.

[rocci]

@tsuki hoshino
And what it has something to do with declining birth rate? Or what you want to said is feminism contribute on birth rate decline?
Because I see you agree with blackbird when he said that Confucius is part of the problem with birth rate decline.
If people follow Confucius than there would be no birth rate decline problem but an overpopulation problem.

[Bail o' Lies]

Sigh. James  Here a important thing to remember for nH and SS. Naruto characters are nothing more than insert for their fantasies. Nothing else. The main reason they ever watch it and became fans of Naruto to any degree was that it was on American TV. If Naruto was like most anime today. The only way to find and watch it was online or dvd. It would just be some random anime they probably won't care anything about let alone watch and they would just find and use another story as a base for their sexual fantasies.

[Tsuki Hoshino]

@tsuki hoshino
And what it has something to do with declining birth rate? Or what you want to said is feminism contribute on birth rate decline?
Because I see you agree with blackbird when he said that Confucius is part of the problem with birth rate decline.
If people follow Confucius than there would be no birth rate decline problem but an overpopulation problem.

Again yes Confucianism is part of the problem.

Women turn to feminism to become empowered as a direct result of burdens placed on them by Japanese society. 


Women don't want to get married--> why? Because societal expectations which have roots in Confucianism are things they DON'T want.
Women don't get married and have children, Why? Because the expectation that everything is for the sake of their husband/society/children is bothersome. 
Women don't want to get married, so in order to support themselves without depending on others, they get jobs. 

Up until now the feeling in japan was that "you are a cog in the machine you should not do things to upset the machine, but to help it." now the feelings is slowly becoming "You are an individual and you should do the things that please you." people change and the culture adapts. 

People are bucking the system that has roots in Confucianism, therefore there are birth rate problems. Its not a difficult concept. What we see in Naruto is an example of the "old guard" way of thinking. 


 

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

Sigh. James  Here a important thing to remember for nH and SS. Naruto characters are nothing more than insert for their fantasies. Nothing else. The main reason they ever watch it and became fans of Naruto to any degree was that it was on American TV. If Naruto was like most anime today. The only way to find and watch it was online or dvd. It would just be some random anime they probably won't care anything about let alone watch and they would just find and use another story as a base for their sexual fantasies.

I can safely say that, had I not already been a Naruto (manga) fan before, but rather just stumbled across it online today while looking through an anime streaming site and checked out the first episode(s), I would more than likely not keep watching it. I would more than likely think to myself, "What the heck? The summary talked about ninjas, but there's barely anything remotely 'ninja' about this," and I'd probably find the initial characters annoying too, and knowing that the anime is hundreds of episodes long today as well as tons of pointless fillers that I'd have to sit through in hopes of "development", I would not even bother.

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

People are bucking the system that has roots in Confucianism, therefore there are birth rate problems. Its not a difficult concept. What we see in Naruto is an example of the "old guard" way of thinking.

And sadly, the "old guard" won in the end.

[Frankie]

Just wanna say that after reading this entire forum, (I was bored), I see that others agree with me about Mr. Rock Lee being a HUGE missed opportunity, wasted potential, and a character that could've very easily been the main character of another story. It honestly brings a tear to my eye and makes me giddy.

#TeamRockLee #TheGreatest

[Bail o' Lies]

The thing I find laugh able is the fact that people act like the ending still a success but even just looking at what kishi or SP are doing you can see Naruto is slowly dying.

 

Kishi: His interview keep changing but the newer ones since about February have going from trying to justify the ending to increasingly negative. Kishi did a two page on shot for the last about a nH date, which wasn't that impressive but shows that he was going along at first but after that. The two one shot for that art show were not finished. The Gaiden spent more time pointing out the flaws of the SS pairing then anything else. The hokage coronation one shot was more focus on the daughter and ended up ruining the big day that Naruto been working for most of his life. He also seems to sleep on a couch instead of a bed with his wife. The Bolt movie focused more on SNS then anything else.

 

SP: went from proudly showing off hinata to kind of hiding her and have been lowering the quality of their work to keep Naruto going on a tighter budget till they can start the Bolt anime.

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 28 February 2016 - 04:01 AM.

[BlackBird19]

@rocci

Everything tsuki wrote is what I was trying to say. Now the economic issue is that with the declining population the work force in japan is also dwindling. This is what truly concerns the Japanese government. Supposedly with the way things are going if the birthrate doesn't rise the population will fall from 127 million today to around 82 million by 2060. The population dropped by 286,000 people just last year alone.

[Tsuki Hoshino]

 

I can safely say that, had I not already been a Naruto (manga) fan before, but rather just stumbled across it online today while looking through an anime streaming site and checked out the first episode(s), I would more than likely not keep watching it. I would more than likely think to myself, "What the heck? The summary talked about ninjas, but there's barely anything remotely 'ninja' about this," and I'd probably find the initial characters annoying too, and knowing that the anime is hundreds of episodes long today as well as tons of pointless fillers that I'd have to sit through in hopes of "development", I would not even bother.

Expecting Ninja's to act like Ninja's....dear lord there must be something wrong ( and by wrong i mean RIGHT.) with your brain! See a doctor immediately please.   

I would argue that from Zubuza  to the chuunin exams in manga and anime  were about as Ninja-like as it ever got...and then it ended. 
 

 

And sadly, the "old guard" won in the end.

Well...can't argue with that. I feel bad for Japanese guys, because essentially attitudes like the one Kishimoto displays towards women are why most of them can't get a date....there is even like a GROUP/association of them recently who wanted to ban Christmas ( which for them is more about spending it with lover's then family as it is in the west) over there because its just that bad at the moment

Oh yea they called themselves "Losers with Women." or something.

 

Just wanna say that after reading this entire forum, (I was bored), I see that others agree with me about Mr. Rock Lee being a HUGE missed opportunity, wasted potential, and a character that could've very easily been the main character of another story. It honestly brings a tear to my eye and makes me giddy.

#TeamRockLee #TheGreatest

Well, they still have Rock Lee's Spin off show/manga but its not fer srs....its played for laughs.


WHY COULDN'T WE GET LEESAKU OVER SASUSAKU?! 

  its just not fair i tell you....

 

[Tsuki Hoshino]

@rocci

Everything tsuki wrote is what I was trying to say. Now the economic issue is that with the declining population the work force in japan is also dwindling. This is what truly concerns the Japanese government. Supposedly with the way things are going if the birthrate doesn't rise the population will fall from 127 million today to around 82 million by 2060. The population dropped by 286,000 people just last year alone.

The Japanese government is doing pretty much everything it can to give incentives for people to have families at this point short of just throwing lose cash in their face. They are bending backwards to try and get people laid   

 

[rocci]

@tsuki hoshino
So that mean feminism is the cause of birth rate decline And not Confucius.

[Tsuki Hoshino]

@tsuki hoshino
So that mean feminism is the cause of birth rate decline And not Confucius.

No. It means that Confucianism  left women with no other choice but to either conform, or to rebel, rebelling means seeking liberation, and liberation comes in the form of Feminism.

Confucianism came before Feminism, ergo, there must have been a problem with it for women to feel the need to CHANGE and latch on to feminist ideology.

For the record, I find western 3rd wave feminism to be a bad joke, but in places like the middle east, Africa and Asia, where women DO face actual economic, societal/cultural, and educational discrepancies, It actually SERVES a purpose. 
 

[James S Cassidy]

Sigh. James  Here a important thing to remember for nH and SS. Naruto characters are nothing more than insert for their fantasies. Nothing else. The main reason they ever watch it and became fans of Naruto to any degree was that it was on American TV. If Naruto was like most anime today. The only way to find and watch it was online or dvd. It would just be some random anime they probably won't care anything about let alone watch and they would just find and use another story as a base for their sexual fantasies.

-bigger sigh-

The important thing to remember is that anime in America didn't start out with Naruto. It actually started with shows like Dragonball Z, Sailor Moon, and maybe even Gigantor, Voltron, and Speed Racer. Maybe even Astro boy.  Anime has been on American television since long before the 90s, but nothing really picked up until 1997 when Dragonball Z made the scene in America. That being said...nobody really cared amount the romance aspect of these shows. Mostly because we were too young to understand what love and sex was. We loved action and Dragonball Z was action. It was basically the Micheal Bay of Anime. We didn't know anything about story, but as long as things blew up we were happy.

Somewhere along the lines we lost something and we stopped caring about even the explosions and more about romance. One thing that remains common is that people focused on one aspect of a show and disregarded everything else. Did it strike anybody as odd that some things just to seem magically go into place in DBZ? No. Did it cross anyone's mind on how stupid Goku was at times or how plot convenience lead the way? No. Most of probably didn't know that they changed Goku as a character in the original run to be more like Superman because they felt that the original intention wasn't really showing Goku as a true hero, but instead as just a reckless fighter.

And this was all long before the internet was as expansive as it was. So what changed? Was it the internet and all the porn and social media that changed the way people thought? Was it the way people grew up believing that having the perfect man or women was the only way one can be successful? Was it that the generation that started watching DBZ grew up to focus on that one aspect type thinking, but change that aspect to love affair instead of action? (Come to think of it, how many times did people talk about how awesome fight scenes were in Naruto? Not many and they were, for the most part, pretty bland. People mostly talked about who was gonna end up with whom?)

Even bigger question is how can these people be self-inserts when they are nothing like the characters in the show? Most pro-Hinata fans I know are nowhere near her character type...and far from being the "loyal women" that they supposedly love about her. Thinking about it, I laugh at the idea that some maybe be neo-feminists claiming women should have more rights and call men evil, but praise a women in anime whose entire life revolves around the wills of one man.

So where, along the point between 1997 and 2014 did the anime fanbase just lose all sight of itself? There was always shipping and pairing wars, but they were never this bad. The worst at the time used to be Cloud and Aerith vs Cloud and TIfa fans and even then they weren't that much...or were they?

Perhaps the internet is what caused the downfall by giving even the people that don't deserve it a voice.
 

 

I can safely say that, had I not already been a Naruto (manga) fan before, but rather just stumbled across it online today while looking through an anime streaming site and checked out the first episode(s), I would more than likely not keep watching it. I would more than likely think to myself, "What the heck? The summary talked about ninjas, but there's barely anything remotely 'ninja' about this," and I'd probably find the initial characters annoying too, and knowing that the anime is hundreds of episodes long today as well as tons of pointless fillers that I'd have to sit through in hopes of "development", I would not even bother.

 

Ever forget the reason why you got into Naruto in the first place? I do. Was it because of the potential or because I actually liked it? Maybe because it reminded me of my DBZ days waiting for episodes every week.

I don't know. I just can't remember anymore.

I feel like some of the former NH fans who are saying now "Why did we love Hinata in the first place?" I guess after all that has happened I just set my expectations too high. My rose-colored glasses got the better of me, not all is bad. I am watching more diverse anime now and some are far more amazing. Overlord, One Punch man, Black Lagoon, Black Bullet, Hellsing Ultimate, and so much more.

I even still go back and remember my older anime memories like Cowboy Bebop, Outlaw Star, Ruroni Kenshin, and such. Man I could watch Ruroni Kenshin for hours and not get bored of it.

Edited by James S Cassidy, 28 February 2016 - 05:04 AM.