779 replies to this topic

[AHK]

I accused you of misunderstanding me because I said, shortly put; no racism targeted at white skin. You responded with - Jewish people. I thought mean to say ~"But Jewish people are oppressed and they are white". - When I already said there are other factors to consider. If it's not that then I misunderstood instead.
 
About the second paragraph I already talked about that. I did say there is racism where no white people have been involved, but that I'm talking about the system that was born out of the conquest. It's the only racism that's really universal, and the motive behind the attacks against people of color in the Americas right now. So, white people didn't create racism, but we created that racism.
 
Also, I don't feel like you're attacking me, but I feel like I have to repeat some things, like above. One last thing, there is no final answer to these things. Even definitions are manmade and my college professors cannot treat these subjects the same way they do math and physics. I stand by this opinion though, I have it because I've reflected these issues with myself, not because I'm quoting sources that sound smart. tldr, not brainwashed by the media.
 
alexander: Race is not only about genetics. It's a broad term that considers a lot of factors, ethnicity included. It's been used in many different ways over the centuries, not just to distinguish skin colors like black, white etc. I called Judaism an ethnicity, but science has tracked back genes that confirm there a Jewish race exists. Either way Jewish people experience racism because they are an oppressed ethnic group/race.

Again, you're wrong. Whites didn't create "that" racism, racism has been around for millenia, specifically regarding conquests as you mentioned. Whites never creates that, it's been a fact of human civilization going back thousands of years. Trying to ignore world history to demonize whites is ignorant at best.

Certain definitions can change, but not just to suit ones argument. It isn't about changing the definition of a word, it's about manipulating a definition to perpetuate the idea that racism starts with whites and that nobody else can be at fault.

You are wrong about a lot of things alexander. Let's sum it up.
 
The middle east was all fine until the west got involved. Has anyone seen pics from Afghanistan in the 60's? People wore miniskirts and wearing hijab was a choice. Muslims don't wreck their own countries. Yemen didn't have a threatening ISIS presence before Obama came and moled it to the ground. Trump's first invasion was to Yemen against generals advises, they gathered no intel and killed children. Maybe the middle easterns would stop hating the west if we just stopped turning themj into dust.
 
- You're wrong about Sweden too of course; http://www.vox.com/w...immigrant-crime
Crime committed by immigrants in scandinavia is typically blown up, speaking from experience. I bet you listened to FOX's swedish national security imposter too? XD
 
- The persecution of christians is in many ways a reaction to the west - colonialism, supporting Israel etc. Which isn't an excuse, but it gives you a bit of context..either way they're not the ones in most danger in the region, because muslims are aprox. 90% of ISIS victims. Again muslims don't wreck their own countries. By saying that you are putting ISIS victims in the same box as ISIS and that's bad.
 
Finally, muslims do not oppress jews. They accept jews from many countries just not Israel, because they are illegal settlers. It's not a jewish ban, it's a zionist ban. It's a form of resistance, a way of not recognizing Israelis as owner of the land they live on. When the country changes its name to Palestine again, the middle east may accept Israeli jews. I don't want to start an Israel vs Palestine debate, but those bans can't be compared.. http://www.npr.org/s...we-plan-to-stay
 
Honestly you sound a lot like this guy;
Don't complain about muslim's homophobia when your president selected a homophobic extremist VP and just removed protection of trans people in bathrooms.

Okay lol first: the Middle East was not "just fine" until the west got involved.

Secondly, and more importantly:

Illegal settlers? Are you out of your mind? The Jews were given land that was historically theirs in order to finally provide a place of refuge for them, because everywhere they have ever lived they have been persecuted, and this was just following the worst genocide the world had seen to that point.

To even think to claim them as "illegal settlers" when he UN gave them land that was historically theirs in the first place, for the sake of them not being rounded up and exterminated like animals is an absolutely disgusting sentiment.

Edited by AHK, 26 February 2017 - 02:24 PM.

[T XD]

N.B : I made some minor editing after remembering two things.

 

I asked you questions to know your opinions and perspectives more about Islamic society and Muslims before I talk. Didn't get offended XD
 

What I mean is that islamic society still lives by ideals that westen civilization finds unnaceptable. And when muslims move away to western countries, many of them still hold such views. Over 10 middle eastern countries punish homosexualism with death. The majority of others punish it with imprisionment. you're from Lebanon right? Doesn't your country hold a majority view that homosexuals should be shunned from society? Doesn't your country posses the legal act 534, that makes homosexual behaviour illegal by the eyes of the law? And then in England, an recent poll showed that 61% of british muslims believe homosexuality should be criminalized. And there is more. This was shot at an western mosque. Let's hear what these open minded muslims have to say about homosexuals:
 

Differences of culture. Very possible that there will be people who won't accept the differences easily between a said culture and their own culture. It's the role of beliefs playing here. Different people are different and will respond to different things differently.
No human will have the same cognition process as another human. Any other citizen from another country could go to another country and not liking the traditions and culture of a said country at first or ever. Whatever the ideals of the person and the other don't matter unless s/he makes mischief which should be stopped.
If I should go with your statement then I can say that any original citizen from USA isn't preferable to come over countries who don't share the same views of any other country. It's not right.
 
Yes. Homosexuality isn't legal in most Middle Eastern countries, but doesn't mean it's something to focus on if someone from these countries would go to another country unless they don't abide with the laws of the said country which s/he should be stopped. Homosexuality shouldn't be punished by death cause no one should die by another human being's hand unless for defense purposes.
 
Yup. From there. No, it doesn't hold a majority view that homosexuals should be shunned from society. I don't have the percentage. The majority is a mix of indifference and accepting. Some are against them. Like many population of a country on Earth. There are homosexual pubs, homosexual-friendly pubs, homosexual night clubs, homosexual dating sites and homosexual parties.
The legal act 534 forbids marriage. Not shunned or scrutinized. They can't get married here. Protests are being held up occasionally as far as I know to cancel this act.
Homosexuality between many countries differ, so it depends.
 
About the video, some agree, some don't agree. In truth, they should not be sentenced death penalty cause the Qur'an doesn't say this. 
Here's the real thing about the Hadith books : Many Muslims follow the Qur'an and the Hadith which is wrong. They should follow just the Qur'an cause God said to follow the Qur'an only. The Hadith hold things, if not many things, that are wrong in the Qur'an.
 
About the hijab thing in Iran, it's a bad thing to force someone to do something that doesn't give back benefit.
Though hijab and the cloak aren't mentioned in the Qur'an to be worn by women, hijab is a belief, the black cloak of the woman in some countries is a belief. They're also traditions taken from the old times. The women  who don't mind and / or they believe that is the right thing, then let them be. If a women wears a hijab or the black cloak, it's not an oppression. It's their belief that they should dress that way according to religion.
 

Muslims wreck their countries for several reasons. Be political, territorial or ethnical/religious. Here are the list of major conflicts in the middle east in recent time:
 
https://en.wikipedia...the_Middle_East
 
In the last 15 years alone, these conflicts lead to between 300k deaths to nearly a million. Yes, the americans played a big part in the Iraq war, and I certanly don't approve of their interventionism.

Humans all over the world wrecked most of the countries, regions and places. Throughout history, there will be nations that will go to up to their prime then will fall for any reason it may be. For example, the UK and France in the 1900s, Germany during Hitler, the Ottoman Empire, Ancient China, Ancient Egypt, etc.
No country will be stable forever unless it's peaceful and on the right track I think. New nations will rise in the future till the end of times. Other non-Muslim countries are wrecking their countries cause of external cause or internal cause recently, and probably other countries will wreck in the future for reasons.
Muslims are humans too that will be tempted to do things for whatever cause they have. They're not devils driven to wreck. No, I'm not implying you're saying that. Just saying for the sake of saying it XD
 

And this is what I mean by the persecution of christians:
 
https://en.wikipedia...n_of_Christians
 
Other then North Korea, the majority of countries that cause these persecutions are islamic. The estimative is that 100K christians are killed for their faith yearly, and that happens mostly in muslim majority countries. If that is not persecution, I don't know what is.

There's no persecution of Christians in any country. The link you provided was in the very old times by many religions. All over the world Muslims and Christians are living together. For example, I went to Dubai, UAE a week ago. Christians are the majority than Muslims. Lots of Christians that are Russians, Europeans, Americans, Indians, Philippines, Chinese are immigrants in UAE. Every year there are Christian immigrants and migrants in Middle East.
In Middle East, there's no difference between a Muslim and a Christian in their lives. Where I am, the president by law should be Maronite Christian.
 
Just in case you have a thought of it, being a Muslim isn't being barbaric, and Middle East is like any other country on the planet. It's not a wasteland.
 

When did I ever implied that someone from a muslim majority country immigrating was likely to be an ISIS member? But yes, muslims immigrating in masses to other countries is pretty bad. Sweden has a rape epidemic now, with the overwhelming majority of reports being of gangs of immigrant men. But it's all unnoficial as the authorities stopped making official stats in 2005 when they realized immigrants were involved with the majority of crimes. And then Germany, were the crime rate considerably increased, recieving reports of over 400K crimes ever since their open door policies started:
 
http://www.breitbart...-wing-radicals/

I didn't think like that. I asked you a question to know what you meant exactly.
 
Mass of helpless refugees with people from the refugees being poor could trigger bad actions. But, saying Muslims immigrating in masses to other countries is a bad thing, is wrong. Muslims shouldn't rape and do mischief. What's bad if there will be people who will do bad things. They could be anyone.
Imagine in the future that there will be American refugees, would a person want to be given an equal chance like any other American refugee to see if s/he will be entering a said country, or possibly die where they are cause many others beside them are entering a country.
Lebanon hold much more refugees and lots of criminal reports, but refugees can't be blamed. Stopping crimes is where order and the government should work, and it depends on their work. There are rich and poor refugees. Each living their lives as much as they could.
 

And nice attempt at baiting me into an ignorant response, but if you paid attention to what I said, I did mentioned that I don't think every muslims is evil, or that they are evil in their majority. So no, I don't think every muslims is a psycopath waiting to go berserk, but there are enough of them causing trouble and crime in western countries for their presence to be a reason of concern (in places were mass immigration is happening anyway).

I paid attention. You said she's proof that not all of them are evil. I asked if you think the majority is evil.
 
What I said above concerning refugees, and there are other people that are non-Muslims in your country and any other country causing crimes. If I go with what you said, I should take caution from everyone as long as I can.
 

And no, muslims don't currently opress jews as they fled the middle east in recent years due mostly to persecution.
 
https://en.wikipedia...States_Congress
 
but if they ever came to go back there, I much believe things would continue to be the same, and the muslims would opress the jews. Otherwise, how come that all these countries in the middle east banned the entrance of jews from Israel?

There's no persecution of Jews. The link you provided is from the old times from different religions making persecution of the Jews. The last time Jews were persecuted was during Hitler era.
There are Jews in Muslim countries. There are Arab Jews living there too. It's the Israeli country that they don't get to enter the Jews from cause there's no Israel embassy due to political conflict with the extreme Israelis Zionist. There's no oppression nor persecution.
 

Syria, Iran, Iraq, Yemen, Libya, Algeria, Bangladesh, Brunei, Kuwait, Lebanon, Malaysia, Oman, Pakistan, Sudan, Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates. Hey look, your country is there too!

What about them ? If you think that's where ISIS is, ISIS has propagated in different countries in all the continents. Their headquarters is in Syria and Iraq after the peace wasn't an option 4 years ago.

Edited by T XD, 26 February 2017 - 07:18 PM.

[sushi.]

Okay lol first: the Middle East was not "just fine" until the west got involved.

You're right that's an overstatement. No country is "just fine" when you think about it. There were conflicts with Kurds, Iran vs Kuwait, Iranian revolution etc. But, it wasn't the hellhole that it is today, the region wasn't under constant threat, (and yea I know not every country is turned to dust). Religious terrorism wasn't a thing even though the people were religious, which means that Islam is not to blame for terrorism. I did make that clear in another post though, because alexander responded to it too. So I wonder what your aim is here. Anyway the countries were neither utopias nor dystopias, just actual countries..people were leading normal lives.

 

Oh and you mentioned the Mayan empire up there..I forgot to say but I think that was more imperialism than actual racism. It's just a better description of that history imo.

 

alexander, idk what kind of rape epidemic is going on right now, but this is the situation in Sweden/Norway in general

- Immigrants are most guilty of ambush rapes. Attacking women in a dark alley etc. At least that's the common belief.

- Immigrants were more likely to be identified, so non-immigrants were not counted in the statistic.

- Most of these statistics are based on few cases(10-20 etc), so it's hard to get an overall picture.

- Statistics usually don't spesify their background, non-ethnical swedes/norws etc are lumped together. Everone thinks of west asians or africans though, a german rarely gets branded as an "immigrant" by the people/media. That creates a lot of stigma. (Sometimes they use "non-western immigrants" instead of just immigrants though)

- These rapes are more likely to be convicted than others, and according to an interview with the police they suspect immigrants are more likely to be reported as well.

- The majority rape cases happens at parties, by acquintances, sleeping rapes etc. Ethnical scandis are more likely to do this, but these are less reported and harder to get convicted.

- No-go zones have gangs of ethnic swedes, east europeans, and west-asians too, but connecting them to muslims solely is wrong according to the police.

 

Sweden has one of the highest rape percentages in the world, almost up there with the US. It is more dangerous than Norway and Denmark, but I know it isn't that bad. In Sweden though, sexual assault counts as rape. Touch a woman's boob and you probably won't be convicted, but if reported it'll add to the rape statistic. Cases of suspected, undocumented rape are also included. Also, if one rapes the same person 50 times, it'll be 50 cases. There's more, but point is because so much goes under rape the statistic is blown up and inaccurate. These definitions of rape was mostly changed in 2005, and from then on there was a drastic increase in the rape numbers.
 

Some of this is just things I know and some I translated from a local article. I actually read swedish to do this lol. If you want I'll give you some links and you could google translate it.  I hope it gives you some insight even though idk about the so called epidemic, because it's not like Sweden took in 160000 refugees yesterday.

 

Btw, if you complain about VOX being a bs source, you should provide with something better than wikipedia yourself. :/

Edited by sushi., 26 February 2017 - 06:37 PM.

[AHK]

You're right that's an overstatement. No country is "just fine" when you think about it. There were conflicts with Kurds, Iran vs Kuwait, Iranian revolution etc. But, it wasn't the hellhole that it is today, the region wasn't under constant threat, (and yea I know not every country is turned to dust). Religious terrorism wasn't a thing even though the people were religious, which means that Islam is not to blame for terrorism. I did make that clear in another post though, because alexander responded to it too. So I wonder what your aim is here. Anyway the countries were neither utopias nor dystopias, just actual countries..people were leading normal lives.
 
Oh and you mentioned the Mayan empire up there..I forgot to say but I think that was more imperialism than actual racism. It's just a better description of that history imo.
 

<br> alexander, idk what kind of rape epidemic is going on right now, but this is the situation in Sweden/Norway in general

- Immigrants are most guilty of ambush rapes. Attacking women in a dark alley etc. At least that's the common belief.
- Immigrants were more likely to be identified, so non-immigrants were not counted in the statistic.
- Most of these statistics are based on few cases(10-20 etc), so it's hard to get an overall picture.
- Statistics usually don't spesify their background, non-ethnical swedes/norws etc are lumped together. Everone thinks of west asians or africans though, a german rarely gets branded as an "immigrant" by the people/media. That creates a lot of stigma. (Sometimes they use "non-western immigrants" instead of just immigrants though)
- These rapes are more likely to be convicted than others, and according to an interview with the police they suspect immigrants are more likely to be reported as well.
- The majority rape cases happens at parties, by acquintances, sleeping rapes etc. Ethnical scandis are more likely to do this, but these are less reported and harder to get convicted.
- No-go zones have gangs of ethnic swedes, east europeans, and west-asians too, but connecting them to muslims solely is wrong according to the police.
 
Sweden has one of the highest rape percentages in the world, almost up there with the US. It is more dangerous than Norway and Denmark, but I know it isn't that bad. In Sweden though, sexual assault counts as rape. Touch a woman's boob and you probably won't be convicted, but if reported it'll add to the rape statistic. Cases of suspected, undocumented rape are also included. Also, if one rapes the same person 50 times, it'll be 50 cases. There's more, but point is because so much goes under rape the statistic is blown up and inaccurate. These definitions of rape was mostly changed in 2005, and from then on there was a drastic increase in the rape numbers.
 
Some of this is just things I know and some I translated from a local article. I actually read swedish to do this lol. If you want I'll give you some links and you could google translate it.  I hope it gives you some insight even though idk about the so called epidemic, because it's not like Sweden took in 160000 refugees yesterday.
 
Btw, if you complain about VOX being a bs source, you should provide with something better than wikipedia yourself. :/

My aim was to say exactly what I said, that the Middle East wasn't just fine until the US stepped in. There was a lot wrong before the US stepped in, blaming the current outlook of the Middle East on the US is ignorant.

Funny how that works. When the Incans and Mayans do the exact same thing as the British, it's imperialism, but in the case of the British, it's racism. The double standards XD

[James S Cassidy]

I am just gonna throw random views I see of the world.

What I just find funny is the people of the world:

- Others countries want to criticize the US on how they do things and blame America for everything, but have no idea what they are doing themselves and are in even worse shape. This also always cry to American when something is wrong.

It seems like Britian is the Grandfather, USA is the 40 year old father, and the rest of the world are the spoiled children who cry about wanting stuff and yet say Daddy is not fair and how they want to stay up late and how dare daddy put rules to the household.

If the whole world has a problem I say they either provide ideas to fix the problems of the world or shut the hell up until they actually have something constructive to say. I do prove this by asking some people on what their solution to some of the real problems in the world...and I always get silences.



- People complain about border control in US and yet their own country has even stricter boarder controls now even worse than US like UK and Sweden.

- People talk about free speech like they were god given rights and yet believe only they possess such a right and everyone who either is different or disagrees with them do not have the right.

- People are confusing Misandry for feminism and yet turn around and play the victim when they are proving wrong.

And this, ladies and gentleman, is what the future generations look like.



So people can complain about Trump or Brexit or any political party or government of any kind, but I ask is what are you guys doing to solve the problem? What are other countries doing to the solve the problem?

Why can't people NOT oppose on others freedom and instead fix their own countries and lives?

"Let's help them there."

Edited by James S Cassidy, 13 March 2017 - 05:39 PM.

[alexander]

James, I think this video will interest you

 

 

I think is truly relevant to today's world state, as many of this ex-KGB agent warnings are coming to fruition today, after years of left leaning politics being in charge on most of the western world. We see moral relativism being used as an excuse to accept the most atrocious things in western society.

[totherpage95]

remember when donald trump promised no one would lose coverage when obamacare gets repealed?  pepperidge farm remembers

 

 

 

[totherpage95]

http://www.latimes.c...-htmlstory.html

[BlueStarSaber]

Well this sums up Trump's first 50 days in office 

[Setto Kaiba]

I will be the first to admit that I'm not on either side when it comes to politics...but...I have to say I'm starting to lean a lot more to he right with the way the left has been acting. It's not the "dreaded and evil, racist, fascist, sexist, nazi" Conservatives that are constantly causing problems such as blocking traffic, assaulting police officers, destroying private property, burning the flag, and constantly calling people racist because they don't agree with their point of view. 

 

And reading some of the posts on this thread is just...mind blowing. 

[totherpage95]

Well this sums up Trump's first 50 days in office 

this guy said in another video that bernie supporters who stuck with him the whole time actually voted for trump when they couldn't vote for bernie... it makes me feel bad for them since now trump is going to slash healthcare and make the rich richer. not to mention education and the environment and housing. ultimately everything trump said was a lie. even if you use the excuse that the primaries were rigged against bernie this doesn't excuse it. i sympathize with the bernie voters but obviously they voted for the wrong person. even bill clinton seems extremely tame compared to trump

[Setto Kaiba]

this guy said in another video that bernie supporters who stuck with him the whole time actually voted for trump when they couldn't vote for bernie... it makes me feel bad for them since now trump is going to slash healthcare and make the rich richer. not to mention education and the environment and housing. ultimately everything trump said was a lie. even if you use the excuse that the primaries were rigged against bernie this doesn't excuse it. i sympathize with the bernie voters but obviously they voted for the wrong person. even bill clinton seems extremely tame compared to trump

*Facepalm* Just facepalm all over that wall of nonsense.

 

Clinton. A woman widely known for hiring hitmen to kill people she didn't see eye to eye with, wanted war with Russia, and was responsible for abandoning troops in foreign countries seems tamer than Trump? What's going on inside your head?  

[totherpage95]

I will be the first to admit that I'm not on either side when it comes to politics...but...I have to say I'm starting to lean a lot more to he right with the way the left has been acting. It's not the "dreaded and evil, racist, fascist, sexist, nazi" Conservatives that are constantly causing problems such as blocking traffic, assaulting police officers, destroying private property, burning the flag, and constantly calling people racist because they don't agree with their point of view. 

 

And reading some of the posts on this thread is just...mind blowing. 

well i agree with the last part

[totherpage95]

*Facepalm* Just facepalm all over that wall of nonsense.

 

Clinton. A woman widely known for hiring hitmen to kill people she didn't see eye to eye with, wanted war with Russia, and was responsible for abandoning troops in foreign countries seems tamer than Trump? What's going on inside your head?  

are you confusing hillary with putin perhaps?

[Setto Kaiba]

are you confusing hillary with putin perhaps?

Hahahahaha. You're joking, right? Really, are you joking? Because that's pretty scary if you actually think that. 

[totherpage95]

Hahahahaha. You're joking, right? Really, are you joking? Because that's pretty scary if you actually think that. 

that i think what? the fact is putin is the one who kills people who he doesn't agree with she didn't want war with russia there is a good reason for america not doing much more than putting sanctions on russia a war would by a terrible idea hillary wasn't running simply because she hates russia. those are the facts if you want to insist that your conspiracy theories and alternative facts are true go ahead i guess but if it was really widely known hillary killed people and somehow wasn't convicted of charges of that why the hell would she win the popular vote

[Setto Kaiba]

that i think what? the fact is putin is the one who kills people who he doesn't agree with she didn't want war with russia there is a good reason for america not doing much more than putting sanctions on russia a war would by a terrible idea hillary wasn't running simply because she hates russia. those are the facts if you want to insist that your conspiracy theories and alternative facts are true go ahead i guess but if it was really widely known hillary killed people and somehow wasn't convicted of charges of that why the hell would she win the popular vote

Uh-huh. And I bet the Russians hacked the election, too, didn't they?

 

http://www.redstate....ing-war-russia/

 

http://www.wnd.com/2...triguing-cases/

 

Putting a no fly zone over Syria after Russia said not to...is very much a recipe for war. 

 

Need to stop watching the mainstream media and those late night shows, pal. Benghazi in itself is proof of Hillary's treachery. 

Edited by Setto Kaiba, 14 March 2017 - 01:12 AM.

[BlueStarSaber]

I pretty sure that most of the left that everyone is claiming that are causing property damage are anarchists who are just causing trouble for everyone even protesters who are trying to protest peacefully http://www.usatoday....-bloc/97393870/

Also the right isn't exactly innocent when it comes to violence as white nationalist terrorist attacked a  Mosque a few months back killing six https://theintercept...te-nationalist/

[sushi.]

The belief that Trumps foreign policy is tamer than Clinton is a myth. She's got beef with Russia, but he's not treating the world's third power, China, any better. He goes forward with military operations against generals' consultations and he thinks ISIS has the simplicity of a disney villain.

that i think what? the fact is putin is the one who kills people who he doesn't agree with she didn't want war with russia there is a good reason for america not doing much more than putting sanctions on russia a war would by a terrible idea hillary wasn't running simply because she hates russia. those are the facts if you want to insist that your conspiracy theories and alternative facts are true go ahead i guess but if it was really widely known hillary killed people and somehow wasn't convicted of charges of that why the hell would she win the popular vote

And Trump supports Putin. In fact, just like him, they're killers themselves, in his own words. So, what's his problem with Clinton?  A lot of the things he criticized her for, he or his administration is now guilty of themselves hmm. In an old interview he was positive to an Iraqi invasion, but after it failed he changed his mind and never misses the opportunity to toast Hillary for it. She, who has apologized, and he who pretends he didn't say anything. 

 

More Berners going for Trump ;

 

Oh god, you really are blind.

All that facepalming and snarkiness, you got any better approach than bully and suppression techniques?

Edited by sushi., 14 March 2017 - 01:28 AM.

[Setto Kaiba]

What exactly about a " white nationalist terrorist" makes him right wing?