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Naruto Chapter 629


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#361 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 05:12 AM

QUOTE (redragon88 @ May 9 2013, 11:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Obito has gone on and on ever since his unmasking about how Kakashi is a fake because he couldn't keep his promise of protecting Rin. But now in this chapter he goes on to say that Rin is a fake as well since she was never supposed to die.

So I get that Obito was disillusioned with Kakashi because he didn't keep the promise of protecting Rin. It was Obito's greatest desire to see the girl that he loved, for which he risked his life to save, to keep living on, and he entrusted Kakashi to make sure it happened but Kakashi wasn't able to.

I'm starting to think that Obito also became disillusioned with Rin as well. He might feel betrayed by her because despite knowing how much Obito wanted her to live on she instead chose to die, therefore denying him his desire as well.

So I think Obito might somehow feel betrayed by both Kakashi and Rin, so he claims them as fakes since in his mind the real Kakashi and Rin would've honored Obito's last wish.

Maybe Obito felt that Rin valued her love for Kakashi more than his love for her, therefore choosing to die at the hands of who she loves instead of trying to find a way to live for the sake of who loved her. In a way making it seem that Kakashi was more important to her than Obito ever was.

Maybe a way to redeem Obito would be to reveal that Rin was taking Obito's feelings more into consideration than he initially theorized. Maybe her resolution to die was actually inspired by Obito, or something like that. It would be an interesting development. And that way it could make Obito not consider the Rin that died to be a fake anymore, and thus decide to honor her memory somehow.

I got an idea. I think the best way to convinced Obito is to let Naruto do the talking. Why? Think about it. Kakashi already established that they are similar in many ways. Kakashi thought to himself it's never too late because he can still change, but Obito is on the verge that everything he sees are fakes. So fake, that his heart is no longer there. Genjutsu or not, the message is that he has no heart to give in hope for. Kakashi can't convince him or maybe he can, but let me get to my idea. The thing is that Obito can change if only he got the same time span to talk to Naruto, one-on-one, like Nagato. Naruto represents the future, so perhaps Kakashi can prove Obito that things will change and it's already progressing.

Naruto is known to relate his enemy and change his enemy to die as a human, not a monster. Obito is about the past ninja lifestyle while Naruto is about the future repenting the mistake of the past. Remember, Naruto hates the law of ninja with people die at all cost rather than protect them and see another day with your friends, which Obito once believed. I think his breakthrough should be about understanding that life has changed and Naruto is the one. He denies it, but perhaps he wants to see it for himself one last time. Maybe Kakashi could convince him that Naruto is the one to fix all and Obito will play one last game by either he wins by killing him or loses by Naruto. I should not reveal too much, because I feel like Kishi reads this and swerve it to make it unique, which may result in "Huh?" but that's just me. tongue.gif

Plus, I do want Naruto to conclude with Obito because they really had a feud going and if Obito just come back good, he'll be like "What the hell happened?" and it will be less satisfying. Not to mention, he does have to do for people of present and his parents. It seems given that Naruto will confront and end Obito, but who knows. I think it's best to have them settle the score. Right now, it's Kakashi, but I don't think it will end with him. Kakashi can bring up Rin's truth and such, but I do think it should happen when Obito is like 85% done of converting by TnJ.

#362 Don-kun

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 05:41 AM

QUOTE (NaruSaku4Life3g @ May 9 2013, 02:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yeah, ok, now I see what you mean. To me, once a NS moment happens, then everyone would just accept it that it's always meant to be and enjoy the manga for what it is. Sadly, some will still go uproar. I think the reason why people are so invested in now is because everyone thinks timing is on their side and they sees Sakura's confession as one of those climax moment where the main character got the wrong love interest. The problem is he never said that at all nor show any indication. First, the main character is supposed to get more intimate with another girl, but that never happen for Naruto. What's worse is that Sakura continues to get closer rather than further, so there's no problem. Pretty much pairing fan is putting it all to this arc. I short, all or nothing.

Still, I wish people focus on the story, not on the pairing, especially when it's not asking for it. Sakura's confession is a mix of all things of the plot: character developments, plot related, and pairing development. Hinata's confession was more of hers and excuse to cause KN6 to happen. Anyway, I'll accept pairing being important to plot when it really put it that way by Kishi. Yes, I wish Kishi can straight out say it but I guess that's the journey...

Yeah, I'm worried about that. Get strike out or hit a homerun.


If you look on the Manga and make a comparison with the male and female development between NS, NH and SS we get an Idea about the Manga inclination plus if we add the fact that Kishi first movie was focused on Naruto and Sakura development when he could clearly make Sakura another AU character but instead chooses that Sakura role was to understand Naruto more, we get a clear picture of with pairing Kishimoto feels more comfortable with, the biggest problem is that Kishimoto is always asking his readers to keep reading the Manga until the end knowing that if he decides to make a clear pairing some readers might step away from his story.

That is way I believe he cannot be straight forward but that doesn't mean that he is not dropping hints whenever he has a chance.




For the Hinata talk about her becoming a more confident character to assume the Hyuga clan head role it's nothing but baseless speculation since Hinata has never stated that she want to impress her father or assume that position, Hinata character as always being about becoming a stronger and more confident woman in Naruto's eyes, the moment Naruto told her that she could stand on her own was the moment we kind of get the idea that she will become her own strong persona.
Hinata is more confident at the moment the only three things pending with her character is her father letting her know how proud she makes him while returning her position back to her, her closure with Naruto and see what she meant by her not chasing him anymore. By the way the last part of my post is not at you.

#363 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 05:50 AM

QUOTE (Don-kun @ May 10 2013, 01:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If you look on the Manga and make a comparison with the male and female development between NS, NH and SS we get an Idea about the Manga inclination plus if we add the fact that Kishi first movie was focused on Naruto and Sakura development when he could clearly make Sakura another AU character but instead chooses that Sakura role was to understand Naruto more, we get a clear picture of with pairing Kishimoto feels more comfortable with, the biggest problem is that Kishimoto is always asking his readers to keep reading the Manga until the end knowing that if he decides to make a clear pairing some readers might step away from his story.

That is way I believe he cannot be straight forward but that doesn't mean that he is not dropping hints whenever he has a chance.




And for the Hinata talk about her becoming a more confident character to assume the Hyuga clan head role it's nothing but baseless speculation since Hinata has never stated that she want to impress her father or assume that position, Hinata character as always being about becoming a stronger and more confident woman in Naruto's eyes, the moment Naruto told her that she could stand on her own was the moment we kind of get the idea that she will become her own strong persona.
Hinata is more confident at the moment the only three things pending with her character is her father letting her know how proud she makes him while returning her position back to her, her closure with Naruto and see what she meant by her not chasing him anymore.

Yeah, I have been saying that with the movie. I still it's obvious due to the movie, but if there are people that really wants to know, especially much younger audience, since you know, they like adventure, then they will read the manga. Movie can really show your indication of your pairing choice. Fairy Tail the movie falls to this and you can say their pairing moment is the hug scene. Whether it's intentional or not, it's there. I guess that's why others are denying hard and while I do agree it's a movie, non-canon, but I think there's a little consideration to think of. I like how one member from NF described it, I believe the name is Kronin, and well, it does make sense. But to play safe, let's just base on the manga.

Bolded statement: While Hinata doesn't indicate the Hyuuga family in here, the point is that her confidence is there and plus, the defense role is supposed to be Hyuuga, so it's fitting for her to be in frontline, especially her dad seems to be out, which goes the same for the alliance itself. It can connect to the family when the war is over, proving that Hinata can be a leader in the near future. If lucky, which the possibility is increasing a little more due to Obito more likely revive to die as a human, Neji can be revived and get some reward to the point I think the family within Hyuuga will be one, no more division. Plus Neji can come back to life with no seal, indicating a new beginning within the family. Again, it all lies on Obito. Yeah, I know, revival again, but oh well, it's his story.

Edited by NaruSaku4Life3g, 10 May 2013 - 05:52 AM.


#364 Dkey

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 05:57 AM

QUOTE (NaruSaku4Life3g @ May 10 2013, 08:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I got an idea. I think the best way to convinced Obito is to let Naruto do the talking. Why? Think about it. Kakashi already established that they are similar in many ways. Kakashi thought to himself it's never too late because he can still change, but Obito is on the verge that everything he sees are fakes. So fake, that his heart is no longer there. Genjutsu or not, the message is that he has no heart to give in hope for. Kakashi can't convince him or maybe he can, but let me get to my idea. The thing is that Obito can change if only he got the same time span to talk to Naruto, one-on-one, like Nagato. Naruto represents the future, so perhaps Kakashi can prove Obito that things will change and it's already progressing.

Naruto is known to relate his enemy and change his enemy to die as a human, not a monster. Obito is about the past ninja lifestyle while Naruto is about the future repenting the mistake of the past. Remember, Naruto hates the law of ninja with people die at all cost rather than protect them and see another day with your friends, which Obito once believed. I think his breakthrough should be about understanding that life has changed and Naruto is the one. He denies it, but perhaps he wants to see it for himself one last time. Maybe Kakashi could convince him that Naruto is the one to fix all and Obito will play one last game by either he wins by killing him or loses by Naruto. I should not reveal too much, because I feel like Kishi reads this and swerve it to make it unique, which may result in "Huh?" but that's just me. tongue.gif

Plus, I do want Naruto to conclude with Obito because they really had a feud going and if Obito just come back good, he'll be like "What the hell happened?" and it will be less satisfying. Not to mention, he does have to do for people of present and his parents. It seems given that Naruto will confront and end Obito, but who knows. I think it's best to have them settle the score. Right now, it's Kakashi, but I don't think it will end with him. Kakashi can bring up Rin's truth and such, but I do think it should happen when Obito is like 85% done of converting by TnJ.


I agree with you regarding Naruto and Obito. If anything Obito lost hope for this world when Rin died and he acts accordingly but Naruto being Naruto is the only one who can give him some hope for the future. But if we think about it there's Kakashi ( and Minato but the way it is he will just act as a support character ) and if we are to analyze his situation I personally can't find how will he release himself from the guilt of not being able to save Obito and Rin. Will he trust Naruto to take care of things, Will he make a TNJ team with Naruto ( and maybe Minato but again he is a support character) or will he be able to change/defeat Obito by himself. As a story standpoint I speculate Naruto will have a decisive role in what eventually happens with Obito, but will it also help Kakashi wash off the guilt?


#365 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 06:05 AM

QUOTE (Dkey @ May 10 2013, 01:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I agree with you regarding Naruto and Obito. If anything Obito lost hope for this world when Rin died and he acts accordingly but Naruto being Naruto is the only one who can give him some hope for the future. But if we think about it there's Kakashi ( and Minato but the way it is he will just act as a support character ) and if we are to analyze his situation I personally can't find how will he release himself from the guilt of not being able to save Obito and Rin. Will he trust Naruto to take care of things, Will he make a TNJ team with Naruto ( and maybe Minato but again he is a support character) or will he be able to change/defeat Obito by himself. As a story standpoint I speculate Naruto will have a decisive role in what eventually happens with Obito, but will it also help Kakashi wash off the guilt?

Kakashi already got TnJ by Naruto in the past chapter. Right now, he's trying to talk to some sense into Obito. He may feel guilty now, but this is where Naruto has to come in again, not for Obito but for Kakashi as well. Think as his speech to Sasuke in the last arc, Kakashi was standing there, but he got the effect of it. So pretty much, Naruto talks to Obito as Kakashi listens and probably feel like he has realized it as well. So, after Naruto uses his trump card, Kakashi can step in and say his last thought, thanks to Naruto. Even Itachi said the same before he leaves, saying that Naruto really changes people's perspectives. So yeah, Naruto got to talk if Kakashi can't do it. That's why I wonder how long Obito/Kakashi will be there.

#366 Dkey

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 06:12 AM

QUOTE (NaruSaku4Life3g @ May 10 2013, 09:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Kakashi already got TnJ by Naruto in the past chapter. Right now, he's trying to talk to some sense into Obito. He may feel guilty now, but this is where Naruto has to come in again, not for Obito but for Kakashi as well. Think as his speech to Sasuke in the last arc, Kakashi was standing there, but he got the effect of it. So pretty much, Naruto talks to Obito as Kakashi listens and probably feel like he has realized it as well. So, after Naruto uses his trump card, Kakashi can step in and say his last thought, thanks to Naruto. Even Itachi said the same before he leaves, saying that Naruto really changes people's perspectives. So yeah, Naruto got to talk if Kakashi can't do it. That's why I wonder how long Obito/Kakashi will be there.


Well that's just it. I can't figure out if Kakashi will have some development, some resolution for those past events. Resolution he will have but even thou Naruto gave hope to Kakashi, regarding Obito it feels like Kakashi feels more guilty. And this chapter didn't help to see what resolution he will have, how it will manifest because his expression was of shock and relieved those moments again years back. I think they will return to the normal dimension where Naruto will focus more on Obito but I also want to see where Kakashi is going with all of this. This chapter made me curious on how Kakashi's resolution will be.

#367 Don-kun

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 06:14 AM

QUOTE (NaruSaku4Life3g @ May 10 2013, 01:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yeah, I have been saying that with the movie. I still it's obvious due to the movie, but if there are people that really wants to know, especially much younger audience, since you know, they like adventure, then they will read the manga. Movie can really show your indication of your pairing choice. Fairy Tail the movie falls to this and you can say their pairing moment is the hug scene. Whether it's intentional or not, it's there. I guess that's why others are denying hard and while I do agree it's a movie, non-canon, but I think there's a little consideration to think of. I like how one member from NF described it, I believe the name is Kronin, and well, it does make sense. But to play safe, let's just base on the manga.

Bolded statement: While Hinata doesn't indicate the Hyuuga family in here, the point is that her confidence is there and plus, the defense role is supposed to be Hyuuga, so it's fitting for her to be in frontline, especially her dad seems to be out, which goes the same for the alliance itself. It can connect to the family when the war is over, proving that Hinata can be a leader in the near future. If lucky, which the possibility is increasing a little more due to Obito more likely revive to die as a human, Neji can be revived and get some reward to the point I think the family within Hyuuga will be one, no more division. Plus Neji can come back to life with no seal, indicating a new beginning within the family. Again, it all lies on Obito. Yeah, I know, revival again, but oh well, it's his story.


But we need to go with what the story is presenting us not what accommodate our arguments, Sakura say she wants to do more for Naruto, she wants to be there for him, she wants to see him become a Hokage and she also wants to see a happy team 7 again, is we look on her desire we can figure out that she will be Naruto's future partners, Hinata said once that she wanted to walk with him and hold his hand guess what that already happen and nothing came from it as far we can tell but she has never said that she want's to be there for him or see his dreams become a reality, she said that she wanted Naruto to notice her and that is what she focused on the most, Naruto wants to become Hokage, wants to save Sasuke and in some part he also desire for Sakura to returns his feelings. Everything is tied Kishimoto as being hinting on these aspect for a long time the problem is that we get so caught up with the opposition argument and sometimes some from our own side that we ignore the clear picture.

Everything is tied to what the characters as displayed in the story along with their dreams.
Hinata has not desire the role of being a leader for her clan nor she ever commented about the bird cage stuff so to me the one who will acknowledge Hinata has the new clan leader will be her father along with him being the one who removes the bird cage from the branch since he and Neji are the only one who has ever mention anything about that curse.


QUOTE (Dkey @ May 10 2013, 02:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Well that's just it. I can't figure out if Kakashi will have some development, some resolution for those past events. Resolution he will have but even thou Naruto gave hope to Kakashi, regarding Obito it feels like Kakashi feels more guilty. And this chapter didn't help to see what resolution he will have, how it will manifest because his expression was of shock and relieved those moments again years back. I think they will return to the normal dimension where Naruto will focus more on Obito but I also want to see where Kakashi is going with all of this. This chapter made me curious on how Kakashi's resolution will be.


My impression at the end of this chapter was that Obito doesn't want Kakashi to continue to feel guilty about what happen to him or what happen to Rin he wants to free Kakashi from that burden and blame it to this corrupted Ninja System. In a way Obito is right but that still does not justify the action he took against others.

Edited by Don-kun, 10 May 2013 - 06:22 AM.


#368 KnS

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 06:31 AM

QUOTE (redragon88 @ May 9 2013, 04:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think the only reason why Hinata's presence has bothered me sometimes is because I let myself be influenced by the opinions of others.

It's not unusual. When you encounter strong opinions they can be very persuasive. And if those strong opinions run counter to yours, you don't want to be closed-minded, right? I mean, the people who hold those opinions seem so certain that you're willing to stop, listen, and think because you might have missed something or misunderstood. The problem is, once you've thought it over and still hold the same opinion you did, that's when it can get ugly.

Honestly, developing your own opinion and learning to hold it -- and defend it -- without caving or descending to schoolyard bully debate tactics is good practice for issues a lot more important in life than manga pairings. When the stakes are higher -- as with social issues, politics, religion, how you choose to conduct your life, etc. -- it becomes more important to know what you believe and why, and be able to defend it rationally. That's my opinion, anyway.

/philosophy

QUOTE (Verilance @ May 9 2013, 04:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
as I have stated previously I formed my own opinions about where Kishimoto has been taking the manga long ago and really nothing he has written since has changed my mind.

Same. The manga was at Jiraiya's death when I first dropped in on the Naruto fandom. My opinions were already formed -- about the pairings, anyway -- and nothing has changed them. I didn't begin the story with any expectations or agenda, and I let the story inform me of its intentions.

From the way it was written, NS seemed obvious to me from Chapter 3, and when Hinata appeared I thought nothing of her beyond the fact that Naruto's brash honesty and intensity was going to make an impression on her. I mean, that was a clear element of Naruto's character from the beginning: his personality and grit changed people. It never crossed my mind that Hinata was introduced as a serious romantic interest for Naruto. I expected her crush on him would last long enough for her to learn what she needed from him and then move on with her life.

I still think that's what is going on. All this argument... Hinata's getting too much development and panel time. Hinata's getting too much panel time without any development. *sigh* What if the meaning of her appearances is somewhere in the middle of those poles?

Consider the characters of Naruto's generation. (I'm leaving Sakura and Sasuke out of this because they are unarguably integral to Naruto's history, life, and future.) Out of this list, with whom has Naruto had direct, significant, personality- or life-altering interactions?

Shino
Hinata
Kiba
Lee
Tenten
Neji
Ino
Choji
Shikamaru
Sai
Gaara

In my opinion, it's really only Hinata, Neji, Shikamaru, Sai, and Gaara. These five characters were primed for more focus based on their personal exposure to Naruto's personality and fate as leader and hero.

Gaara, well, we all know what happened there. HUGE character shift due to Naruto's influence, and lots of panel time. (Not recently, however.)

Sadly, Neji is dead and his interaction with Naruto was resolved. Shikamaru has had a lot of panel time to show how he has grown and what his potential role in Naruto's post-war organization might be.

Sai, my favorite yenta, has been instrumental in filling the Team 7 gap left by Sasuke -- but by being a force of communication and unification for Naruto and Sakura, as opposed to the dividing force Sasuke had been. Although Relationship Counselor appears to be Sai's main role, I miss him in the current battle. Talk about a guy who is starved for even pity panels. I hope that when the dust settles on the battlefield he is not found dead. x__X

That leaves Hinata. If she wasn't given something besides a romance-centered role in this war... a role that shows the impact Naruto actually intended to have on her -- that she find it within herself to be brave and strong when it counts -- then she would be the only character he failed to inspire. Having her behave the way she is now means Naruto swept the board in terms of influencing his friends.

Hinata's romantic feelings for Naruto are relevant only to her. Her new-found bravery is the only thing that's relevant to Naruto. I honestly don't believe Kishimoto means anything more by it than that.




#369 Don-kun

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 06:55 AM

QUOTE (KnS @ May 10 2013, 02:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It's not unusual. When you encounter strong opinions they can be very persuasive. And if those strong opinions run counter to yours, you don't want to be closed-minded, right? I mean, the people who hold those opinions seem so certain that you're willing to stop, listen, and think because you might have missed something or misunderstood. The problem is, once you've thought it over and still hold the same opinion you did, that's when it can get ugly.

Honestly, developing your own opinion and learning to hold it -- and defend it -- without caving or descending to schoolyard bully debate tactics is good practice for issues a lot more important in life than manga pairings. When the stakes are higher -- as with social issues, politics, religion, how you choose to conduct your life, etc. -- it becomes more important to know what you believe and why, and be able to defend it rationally. That's my opinion, anyway.

/philosophy


Same. The manga was at Jiraiya's death when I first dropped in on the Naruto fandom. My opinions were already formed -- about the pairings, anyway -- and nothing has changed them. I didn't begin the story with any expectations or agenda, and I let the story inform me of its intentions.

From the way it was written, NS seemed obvious to me from Chapter 3, and when Hinata appeared I thought nothing of her beyond the fact that Naruto's brash honesty and intensity was going to make an impression on her. I mean, that was a clear element of Naruto's character from the beginning: his personality and grit changed people. It never crossed my mind that Hinata was introduced as a serious romantic interest for Naruto. I expected her crush on him would last long enough for her to learn what she needed from him and then move on with her life.

I still think that's what is going on. All this argument... Hinata's getting too much development and panel time. Hinata's getting too much panel time without any development. *sigh* What if the meaning of her appearances is somewhere in the middle of those poles?

Consider the characters of Naruto's generation. (I'm leaving Sakura and Sasuke out of this because they are unarguably integral to Naruto's history, life, and future.) Out of this list, with whom has Naruto had direct, significant, personality- or life-altering interactions?

Shino
Hinata
Kiba
Lee
Tenten
Neji
Ino
Choji
Shikamaru
Sai
Gaara

In my opinion, it's really only Hinata, Neji, Shikamaru, Sai, and Gaara. These five characters were primed for more focus based on their personal exposure to Naruto's personality and fate as leader and hero.

Gaara, well, we all know what happened there. HUGE character shift due to Naruto's influence, and lots of panel time. (Not recently, however.)

Sadly, Neji is dead and his interaction with Naruto was resolved. Shikamaru has had a lot of panel time to show how he has grown and what his potential role in Naruto's post-war organization might be.

Sai, my favorite yenta, has been instrumental in filling the Team 7 gap left by Sasuke -- but by being a force of communication and unification for Naruto and Sakura, as opposed to the dividing force Sasuke had been. Although Relationship Counselor appears to be Sai's main role, I miss him in the current battle. Talk about a guy who is starved for even pity panels. I hope that when the dust settles on the battlefield he is not found dead. x__X

That leaves Hinata. If she wasn't given something besides a romance-centered role in this war... a role that shows the impact Naruto actually intended to have on her -- that she find it within herself to be brave and strong when it counts -- then she would be the only character he failed to inspire. Having her behave the way she is now means Naruto swept the board in terms of influencing his friends.

Hinata's romantic feelings for Naruto are relevant only to her. Her new-found bravery is the only thing that's relevant to Naruto. I honestly don't believe Kishimoto means anything more by it than that.


Amen to that post.

Thank you so much.

It was obvious that Naruto would influence Hinata to have a dramatic shift sadly many ignored that aspect of her character in relation to Naruto explaining why so many are bother by her focus.

#370 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 06:59 AM

QUOTE (Dkey @ May 10 2013, 02:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Well that's just it. I can't figure out if Kakashi will have some development, some resolution for those past events. Resolution he will have but even thou Naruto gave hope to Kakashi, regarding Obito it feels like Kakashi feels more guilty. And this chapter didn't help to see what resolution he will have, how it will manifest because his expression was of shock and relieved those moments again years back. I think they will return to the normal dimension where Naruto will focus more on Obito but I also want to see where Kakashi is going with all of this. This chapter made me curious on how Kakashi's resolution will be.

Same, but I guess we have to wait and see where to next for Kakashi/Obito. I want Naruto to have a closure with Obito as well, not just because they are related but because Naruto was hyped to take care of Obito or Tobi as people saw him before the reveal. The point is he needs a closure. I wonder if he will talk about his parents' death by the hand of him. Heck, if Sakura stays up, she will know more of Naruto's past. Nothing breaking character. Anyway, the next chapter should decide where.

QUOTE (Don-kun @ May 10 2013, 02:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
But we need to go with what the story is presenting us not what accommodate our arguments, Sakura say she wants to do more for Naruto, she wants to be there for him, she wants to see him become a Hokage and she also wants to see a happy team 7 again, is we look on her desire we can figure out that she will be Naruto's future partners, Hinata said once that she wanted to walk with him and hold his hand guess what that already happen and nothing came from it as far we can tell but she has never said that she want's to be there for him or see his dreams become a reality, she said that she wanted Naruto to notice her and that is what she focused on the most, Naruto wants to become Hokage, wants to save Sasuke and in some part he also desire for Sakura to returns his feelings. Everything is tied Kishimoto as being hinting on these aspect for a long time the problem is that we get so caught up with the opposition argument and sometimes some from our own side that we ignore the clear picture.

Everything is tied to what the characters as displayed in the story along with their dreams.
Hinata has not desire the role of being a leader for her clan nor she ever commented about the bird cage stuff so to me the one who will acknowledge Hinata has the new clan leader will be her father along with him being the one who removes the bird cage from the branch since he and Neji are the only one who has ever mention anything about that curse.




My impression at the end of this chapter was that Obito doesn't want Kakashi to continue to feel guilty about what happen to him or what happen to Rin he wants to free Kakashi from that burden and blame it to this corrupted Ninja System. In a way Obito is right but that still does not justify the action he took against others.

Wow, I like what you said there. I think the problem is timing as in it happens all in one arc, so it's a bit odd to sink in. Not only that, but a lot of people are mistaking that these side characters are going to make a big difference for the main character, Naruto. The one thing they did is friendships, but nothing like, "Hey, I got a new love interest" or "Hey, I got a new best friend". It's more like "You did enough, now let us do the hard work for you" which is what Naruto gets. People often thinks that Hinata's true desire is to win his heart. Granted she loves him, but there's no real indication about it. It's a personal feeling, but if it's not a dream, then it won't happen. You may try to pinpoint me to Naruto, but again, he's the main character and if Kishi wants us to support him in every way, then we will.

Lastly, Hinata is about herself in terms of hoping for in development, but for Sakura, it's her hoping for him to win everything he works for and making sure he lives to achieve it. To me, I think that should be a clear picture that Hinata is not asking for love, just an approval because she doesn't have that formula to make a pairing. Sakura does, it's just we have to wait for her to realize this whole thing. When it comes down to, I guess you can blame the fans to overglorify her. I'm ok with her learning to be strong on her own now, but maybe they saw a chance of romance, so they take it in, even though Naruto never change and side characters don't really phase him to be a new person. I'm not sure if I explain it well, but if anyone wants me to, I will.

Edited by NaruSaku4Life3g, 10 May 2013 - 07:03 AM.


#371 Codus N

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 07:27 AM

QUOTE (Transformers03 @ May 10 2013, 08:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Interesting theory. I would also like to see Rin come back, as I feel it will bring home the message of the entire manga again; that we need others to help us succeed. Since team Minato is meant to be parallel to Team 7, having Rin be the missing piece of the dealing with Obito seems appropriate. It is only as a team that they are able to succeed, similar to the notion of how strong Team 7's bond was.



Yet again an other good theory.


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QUOTE (redragon88 @ May 10 2013, 10:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Obito has gone on and on ever since his unmasking about how Kakashi is a fake because he couldn't keep his promise of protecting Rin. But now in this chapter he goes on to say that Rin is a fake as well since she was never supposed to die.

So I get that Obito was disillusioned with Kakashi because he didn't keep the promise of protecting Rin. It was Obito's greatest desire to see the girl that he loved, for which he risked his life to save, to keep living on, and he entrusted Kakashi to make sure it happened but Kakashi wasn't able to.

I'm starting to think that Obito also became disillusioned with Rin as well. He might feel betrayed by her because despite knowing how much Obito wanted her to live on she instead chose to die, therefore denying him his desire as well.

So I think Obito might somehow feel betrayed by both Kakashi and Rin, so he claims them as fakes since in his mind the real Kakashi and Rin would've honored Obito's last wish.

Maybe Obito felt that Rin valued her love for Kakashi more than his love for her, therefore choosing to die at the hands of who she loves instead of trying to find a way to live for the sake of who loved her. In a way making it seem that Kakashi was more important to her than Obito ever was.

Maybe a way to redeem Obito would be to reveal that Rin was taking Obito's feelings more into consideration than he initially theorized. Maybe her resolution to die was actually inspired by Obito, or something like that. It would be an interesting development. And that way it could make Obito not consider the Rin that died to be a fake anymore, and thus decide to honor her memory somehow.


Hmmm... that's a very good analysis of Obito's character. I felt there was definitely something I missed in my initial impression of Obito in this chapter. Everything that Obito does, it always seems like there's more to it than meets the eye. And I agree that Rin's willingness to die was actually driven by her desire to meet Obito in the afterlife because she had fallen in love with Obito.

QUOTE (Dkey @ May 10 2013, 01:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Well that's just it. I can't figure out if Kakashi will have some development, some resolution for those past events. Resolution he will have but even thou Naruto gave hope to Kakashi, regarding Obito it feels like Kakashi feels more guilty. And this chapter didn't help to see what resolution he will have, how it will manifest because his expression was of shock and relieved those moments again years back. I think they will return to the normal dimension where Naruto will focus more on Obito but I also want to see where Kakashi is going with all of this. This chapter made me curious on how Kakashi's resolution will be.


You and me both. I do believe that Naruto will contribute to Obito's Heel Face Turn in some way but since this is the Kakashi arc Kishi's been promising us for 5 years, I believe it would be more appropriate that Kakashi does most of the work. But the problem is, Naruto doesn't know anything. Ch. 600 did hint that there will be a moment where Naruto will sit down and listen to their story. But I can't see that happening unless Madara and Obito is somehow forced to retreat with the Juubi. If the Hokages can somehow force them to retreat or something, then Naruto can get the full story from (most likely) his father.

If Naruto is still clueless about what's going on, then he can't TnJ Obito.

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#372 MoonStar

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 08:18 AM

You know, I can't believe how different I think to most other people here. I don't if you're faithful, in extreme denial or if I'm just paranoid. I was bothered by Hinata's appearance in this week's chapter. Not because it reinforced NaruHina, not because I don't want her to develop, but because of how incredibly out of character and forced it was to see her assume the role of a heroine and command an army. It would be just as forced seeing Ino, Kiba or Lee leading the army. I'd think "just because they're major supporting characters they have to be the ones in control of lesser-known characters"? I've read every page of this thread and I'm surprised at people trying to justify Hinata's glorification despite how out of place and completely unfair it is to other characters. Maybe people just refuse to admit she may be problematic to both Sakura's character and to NaruSaku. Why has Hinata been glorified so much this arc? She's been made to look like such a little angel. Hinata has been glorified more than Kiba, Lee, Neji (who only showed up for one chapter before dying), Shikamaru, Chouji, Ino, Tenten, Shino and definitely more than Sakura who was severely off-screened until last chapter, hurrying along to heal Naruto and look her best to be of use. Why? To show Hinata's development? To add to her character as the next Hyuuga heir? Bull. This isn't about developing the character because Hinata was never developed. One minute she's meek, the next she shows up and starts acting high and mighty. Furthermore, if this had been about development, why is Hinata so important to be developed now of all times as opposed to the other undeveloped of the Konoha 11? This is the final arc. Hinata should be no more important than Lee, Ino, Kiba etc. A supporting character. Yet she's all of a sudden being showered with plot-affection to the point of being a Mary-Sue. Sakura shouldn't be compared to Hinata much less lose in comparison to accomplishments during this arc. Her achievements and worth are supposed to be above Hinata's. So let me ask you: Are they?

Why are the ones questioning Hinata's unfamiliar involvement in the current plot being referred to as complainants when they are 100% justified? Don't brush off something so obvious. Kishimoto could have used just about any other character in to lead the army and though it would be out of place, at least it wouldn't be Hinata who he's already been very generous to. Hinata was shown sacrificing her life to shield Naruto from the incoming needles that killed Neji. If it was decided that Neji would die protecting them both in the first place, why show Hinata attempting to shield Naruto at all? Why not just have the needles come at them both and have Neji jump before them? What difference does it make in the long run? Nothing other than making Hinata seem even more selfless. Any other character could have also invigorated Naruto when Neji died, especially considering Hinata was closer to Neji than Naruto was, thus should have been more shaken up about it, yet she wasn't. She was strong-willed enough to inspire Naruto to fight on. Neji could have been the one assisting Ino in projecting her Shintenshin at Obito when the shinobi army arrived, even more effectively since he's a genius. Yet it was Hinata shown doing this. Neji, on the other hand, showed up for one chapter before dying. The fact of the matter is there is a multitude of different characters who could have substituted for any of the instances Hinata contributed to, all the while contributing to their usefulness and to Kishi's word of making everybody's favorite characters shine, yet Hinata was the one glorified in all instances. It baffles me how people could so casually see it off as character development.

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#373 Codus N

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 08:25 AM

It's like I said, progress-wise, it's totally fine for her development. But story-wise as a whole, it's absolutely forced and really came out of nowhere.

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#374 StriderC

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 08:36 AM

QUOTE (MoonStar @ May 10 2013, 03:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You know, I can't believe how different I think to most other people here. I don't if you're faithful, in extreme denial or if I'm just paranoid. I was bothered by Hinata's appearance in this week's chapter. Not because it reinforced NaruHina, not because I don't want her to develop, but because of how incredibly out of character and forced it was to see her assume the role of a heroine and command an army. It would be just as forced seeing Ino, Kiba or Lee leading the army. I'd think "just because they're major supporting characters they have to be the ones in control of lesser-known characters"? I've read every page of this thread and I'm surprised at people trying to justify Hinata's glorification despite how out of place and completely unfair it is to other characters. Maybe people just refuse to admit she may be problematic to both Sakura's character and to NaruSaku. Why has Hinata been glorified so much this arc? She's been made to look like such a little angel. Hinata has been glorified more than Kiba, Lee, Neji (who only showed up for one chapter before dying), Shikamaru, Chouji, Ino, Tenten, Shino and definitely more than Sakura who was severely off-screened until last chapter, hurrying along to heal Naruto and look her best to be of use. Why? To show Hinata's development? To add to her character as the next Hyuuga heir? Bull. This isn't about developing the character because Hinata was never developed. One minute she's meek, the next she shows up and starts acting high and mighty. Furthermore, if this had been about development, why is Hinata so important to be developed now of all times as opposed to the other undeveloped of the Konoha 11? This is the final arc. Hinata should be no more important than Lee, Ino, Kiba etc. A supporting character. Yet she's all of a sudden being showered with plot-affection to the point of being a Mary-Sue. Sakura shouldn't be compared to Hinata much less lose in comparison to accomplishments during this arc. Her achievements and worth are supposed to be above Hinata's. So let me ask you: Are they?

Why are the ones questioning Hinata's unfamiliar involvement in the current plot being referred to as complainants when they are 100% justified? Don't brush off something so obvious. Kishimoto could have used just about any other character in to lead the army and though it would be out of place, at least it wouldn't be Hinata who he's already been very generous to. Hinata was shown sacrificing her life to shield Naruto from the incoming needles that killed Neji. If it was decided that Neji would die protecting them both in the first place, why show Hinata attempting to shield Naruto at all? Why not just have the needles come at them both and have Neji jump before them? What difference does it make in the long run? Nothing other than making Hinata seem even more selfless. Any other character could have also invigorated Naruto when Neji died, especially considering Hinata was closer to Neji than Naruto was, thus should have been more shaken up about it, yet she wasn't. She was strong-willed enough to inspire Naruto to fight on. Neji could have been the one assisting Ino in projecting her Shintenshin at Obito when the shinobi army arrived, even more effectively since he's a genius. Yet it was Hinata shown doing this. Neji, on the other hand, showed up for one chapter before dying. The fact of the matter is there is a multitude of different characters who could have substituted for any of the instances Hinata contributed to, all the while contributing to their usefulness and to Kishi's word of making everybody's favorite characters shine, yet Hinata was the one glorified in all instances. It baffles me how people could so casually see it off as character development.


Ugh! It's 3 am, and I might as well voice how I REALLY feel. Screw it. Call me a complaining NS fan.

1. As I've said before, I feel this has absolutely nothing to do with her prepping for her future position as heir to the Hyuuga name. I feel as though Kishi is just constantly throwing the NH fandom a bone. It WAS out of place for her of all people to lead a freaking attack on Madara. As you've said, it could of been Ino, Kiba, or anyone and it still wouldn't feel right. Would of been better if he put ALL of the rookies in front of Naruto but it's funny because she's the only one there at the moment. IMO, he's doing way too much for her character, and based off of this arc alone, she looks like more of a heroine than the actual heroine and it's just ridiculous.

Also, where are the other rookies?? At least half of them haven't gotten their moment yet, and Hinata just keeps coming back for more. Wouldn't be surprised if she unleashed a new jutsu next chapter to further cater to her fans. It's absolutely ridiculous how much panel time she's gotten in this war alone. She's all over the place. It's jacked up how Neji didn't get any type of moments before his demise. It's jacked up how Naruto's character took a hit just so Hinata could look good. It's jacked up how the heroine was reduced to a watcher with no dialogue while a side character was the opener for the others getting chakra. Why in the world is he putting sooooo much focus into ONE of the rookies now? If this were a consistent thing, I wouldn't even care as much, but it's not, because it's one of the most randoms things to ever happen in this manga.

All, and all, really, it's too much. I wouldn't even be surprised if she was somehow miraculously relevant when Sasuke comes back into the picture. I'm annoyed with how Kishi has sort of knocked the interactions between Naruto and Sakura as a whole in this war. I'm annoyed at the limited development of Sakura Haruno, and how she's not even all that prominent, and she hasn't been for a good while. She feels like a side character at this point.

#375 rocci

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 08:48 AM

QUOTE (Codus N @ May 10 2013, 03:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It's like I said, progress-wise, it's totally fine for her development. But story-wise as a whole, it's absolutely forced and really came out of nowhere.

Agree

#376 Mistraal

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 09:13 AM

I only pop in every month or so but I keep hoping I'll stop in and there will have been some massive Sakura development cause she is/was my favorite character.

Welp, at least she got a panel. See you guys in a few months.

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So THAT'S how it is!!!!

 

 


#377 StriderC

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 01:57 PM

QUOTE (Don-kun @ May 10 2013, 08:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
For the bolded part, none of the three the problem is that Hinata development was meant to be this way but the timing is way out of place, too random plus she is being gating a lot of unnecessary panel at the cost of other character and the main heroine, if this story were to end next wednesday I would completely agree with you the problem is that we don't know what Kishimoto has in or doesn't have in store for Sakura, we just don't.

So for the mean time I choose to focus on the big picture, after Hinata's comment regarding Naruto's big hand we having seeing that romantic Hinata anymore and I keep remembering what she said (after this war she is done chasing him or good), so meanwhile Hinata is not receiving a single focus that displays her feelings for Naruto and the biggest part is that Naruto has not shown any conflict regarding his feelings for Sakura and his new feelings for Hinata that speculations about NH would only exist in the fandom mind but is not backup by the Manga.

One more thing about NH vs NS and the Manga in regards to the Manga I stop caring about what new scenario Kishimoto add to the story a long time ago, Kishimoto blatant favoritism towards the Uchihas and the Uchiha fan has killed my passion for this story at this point now I just want to see how it all ends. About NS vs NH while NH is getting a lot of attention nothing definitive has created a massive doubt in my mind regarding this pairing plus Kishimoto is going out of his way to avoid Sakura and Naruto being close or talking to each other I'm positive that without NS resolution they won't be a NH unless Kishi proves me wrong.


I've long since grown quite tired of Uchihas. Tis alwayyyss about the sharingan some way or another. I'm also still very confident in NS, but that doesn't change how I feel about Hinata being over-glorified in the manga. Hell, he's given the NH fans reason to go nuts, and be all happy, but really, he's doing wayyyy too much catering. He needs to stick with one couple at this point, and stop playing around.

#378 Don-kun

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 02:00 PM

Sorry StriderC but I delete that post. sweat.gif


QUOTE (MoonStar @ May 10 2013, 04:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You know, I can't believe how different I think to most other people here. I don't if you're faithful, in extreme denial or if I'm just paranoid. I was bothered by Hinata's appearance in this week's chapter. Not because it reinforced NaruHina, not because I don't want her to develop, but because of how incredibly out of character and forced it was to see her assume the role of a heroine and command an army. It would be just as forced seeing Ino, Kiba or Lee leading the army. I'd think "just because they're major supporting characters they have to be the ones in control of lesser-known characters"? I've read every page of this thread and I'm surprised at people trying to justify Hinata's glorification despite how out of place and completely unfair it is to other characters. Maybe people just refuse to admit she may be problematic to both Sakura's character and to NaruSaku. Why has Hinata been glorified so much this arc? She's been made to look like such a little angel. Hinata has been glorified more than Kiba, Lee, Neji (who only showed up for one chapter before dying), Shikamaru, Chouji, Ino, Tenten, Shino and definitely more than Sakura who was severely off-screened until last chapter, hurrying along to heal Naruto and look her best to be of use. Why? To show Hinata's development? To add to her character as the next Hyuuga heir? Bull. This isn't about developing the character because Hinata was never developed. One minute she's meek, the next she shows up and starts acting high and mighty. Furthermore, if this had been about development, why is Hinata so important to be developed now of all times as opposed to the other undeveloped of the Konoha 11? This is the final arc. Hinata should be no more important than Lee, Ino, Kiba etc. A supporting character. Yet she's all of a sudden being showered with plot-affection to the point of being a Mary-Sue. Sakura shouldn't be compared to Hinata much less lose in comparison to accomplishments during this arc. Her achievements and worth are supposed to be above Hinata's. So let me ask you: Are they?

Why are the ones questioning Hinata's unfamiliar involvement in the current plot being referred to as complainants when they are 100% justified? Don't brush off something so obvious. Kishimoto could have used just about any other character in to lead the army and though it would be out of place, at least it wouldn't be Hinata who he's already been very generous to. Hinata was shown sacrificing her life to shield Naruto from the incoming needles that killed Neji. If it was decided that Neji would die protecting them both in the first place, why show Hinata attempting to shield Naruto at all? Why not just have the needles come at them both and have Neji jump before them? What difference does it make in the long run? Nothing other than making Hinata seem even more selfless. Any other character could have also invigorated Naruto when Neji died, especially considering Hinata was closer to Neji than Naruto was, thus should have been more shaken up about it, yet she wasn't. She was strong-willed enough to inspire Naruto to fight on. Neji could have been the one assisting Ino in projecting her Shintenshin at Obito when the shinobi army arrived, even more effectively since he's a genius. Yet it was Hinata shown doing this. Neji, on the other hand, showed up for one chapter before dying. The fact of the matter is there is a multitude of different characters who could have substituted for any of the instances Hinata contributed to, all the while contributing to their usefulness and to Kishi's word of making everybody's favorite characters shine, yet Hinata was the one glorified in all instances. It baffles me how people could so casually see it off as character development.



QUOTE (StriderC @ May 10 2013, 04:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Ugh! It's 3 am, and I might as well voice how I REALLY feel. Screw it. Call me a complaining NS fan.

1. As I've said before, I feel this has absolutely nothing to do with her prepping for her future position as heir to the Hyuuga name. I feel as though Kishi is just constantly throwing the NH fandom a bone. It WAS out of place for her of all people to lead a freaking attack on Madara. As you've said, it could of been Ino, Kiba, or anyone and it still wouldn't feel right. Would of been better if he put ALL of the rookies in front of Naruto but it's funny because she's the only one there at the moment. IMO, he's doing way too much for her character, and based off of this arc alone, she looks like more of a heroine than the actual heroine and it's just ridiculous.

Also, where are the other rookies?? At least half of them haven't gotten their moment yet, and Hinata just keeps coming back for more. Wouldn't be surprised if she unleashed a new jutsu next chapter to further cater to her fans. It's absolutely ridiculous how much panel time she's gotten in this war alone. She's all over the place. It's jacked up how Neji didn't get any type of moments before his demise. It's jacked up how Naruto's character took a hit just so Hinata could look good. It's jacked up how the heroine was reduced to a watcher with no dialogue while a side character was the opener for the others getting chakra. Why in the world is he putting sooooo much focus into ONE of the rookies now? If this were a consistent thing, I wouldn't even care as much, but it's not, because it's one of the most randoms things to ever happen in this manga.

All, and all, really, it's too much. I wouldn't even be surprised if she was somehow miraculously relevant when Sasuke comes back into the picture. I'm annoyed with how Kishi has sort of knocked the interactions between Naruto and Sakura as a whole in this war. I'm annoyed at the limited development of Sakura Haruno, and how she's not even all that prominent, and she hasn't been for a good while. She feels like a side character at this point.



For the bolded part, none of the three the problem is that Hinata development was meant to be this way but the timing is way out of place, too random plus she is being gating a lot of unnecessary panel at the cost of other character and the main heroine, if this story were to end next wednesday I would completely agree with you the problem is that we don't know what Kishimoto has in or doesn't have in store for Sakura, we just don't.

So for the mean time I choose to focus on the big picture, after Hinata's comment regarding Naruto's big hand we having seeing that romantic Hinata anymore and I keep remembering what she said (after this war she is done chasing him for good), so meanwhile Hinata is not receiving a single focus that displays her feelings for Naruto and the biggest part is that Naruto has not shown any conflict regarding his feelings for Sakura and his supposed new feelings for Hinata, the speculations about NH would only exist in the fandom mind but is not backup by the Manga. So at this time is more about NH being what they always being (blowing every Hinata scene out of proportion) vs a desperate NS fandom that are tire of NH fandom and wants Kishimoto to give them something to finally shut up NH fans, I know that because I also feel this way is just that I'm less vocal about it.

One more thing about NH vs NS and the Manga in regards to the Manga I stop caring about what new scenario Kishimoto add to the story a long time ago, Kishimoto blatant favoritism towards the Uchihas and the Uchiha fan has killed my passion for this story at this point now I just want to see how it all ends. About NS vs NH while NH is getting a lot of attention nothing definitive has created a massive doubt in my mind regarding this pairing plus Kishimoto is going out of his way to avoid Sakura and Naruto being close or talking to each other plus I'm positive that without NS resolution they won't be a NH unless Kishi proves me wrong.

Edited by Don-kun, 10 May 2013 - 02:03 PM.


#379 Arachnia

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 02:06 PM

In a way for me it seems that NS chance got bigger ever since it was stated that Rin was still in love with kakashi i mean, just like jiraya and tsunade the 3 famous parallel of each other the goofy idiot of the group never got the girl to love him in a way that should change this time dont you guys think, i mean every time you root for some 1 like jiraya and he dies, Obito he dies before confess and its over .......and then he goes insane so that would mean game over too.

now we have naruto and sakura and i say let the goofball/underdog of the story have hes chance .
PS nothing bad about hinata i for 1 like her too but its just not the same.

#380 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 02:12 PM

I guess the fact it's happening so quick for side characters to get what they're at is what bothering people here. Ok, perhaps it was quick, but side characters in Kishi's world happen quick, so as I mentioned before, he most likely didn't want to have that much developments, but because he left it open and now he reached to the end, he has the habit to close them, so enter multiple developments of multiple characters. Is that right?




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