9679 replies to this topic

[Otaru]

A wise man on deviantART once told me on a picture of mine: Like the book Jiraiya wrote, if Naruto suddenly changes, the story changes. This story is about Naruto. The title of the manga isn't Sauske, or Sakura. Naruto's the main character, and he 1) wants to be Hokage, 2) will redeem (in one way or another) Sasuke, 3) loves Sakura. It's been that way since the beginning. It'll be that way to the end. Sakura, being a supporting character, has the luxury of being able to change. I believe she'll always "love" Sasuke in one way or another, but never like she did in part 1. Some blonde knucklehead is already filling the empty space in her heart.
I have to agree with all of it, possibly even that she'll still always love Sasuke

I agree with that a lot.
It's actually what i was explaining to a lot of people.
We should not forget that Naruto is the main character, and that this is a shônen.
Generally, the message from the mangaka to young men is " if you work hard, you will suceed ", so Naruto should suceed in everything.



PS : i just wanna say that i find some members really aggressive, and i think it's polluting the debate.
Of course we believe in NaruSaku, but we can talk about Hinata too, she's not a demon. And even if we mostly believe in NaruSaku, we perfectly have the right to ask questions and debate about it. I still think Kishi is for NaruSaku, but sometimes questions occur in my head, because Kishi is making things complicated and doubtfull. I think he's doin' it on purpose, to keep the fandom alive and in suspense.
But still, no need to be rude if someone is doubting or anything.
It's only a manga, our lives don't depend on it, so no need to be rude.

Edited by Otaru, 30 May 2011 - 10:39 PM.

[Phantom_999]

Exactly Otaru Good point friend

[The Tax-Man]

PS : i just wanna say that i find some members really aggressive, and i think it's polluting the debate.
Of course we believe in NaruSaku, but we can talk about Hinata too, she's not a demon. And even if we mostly believe in NaruSaku, we perfectly have the right to ask questions and debate about it. I still think Kishi is for NaruSaku, but sometimes questions occur in my head, because Kishi is making things complicated and doubtfull. I think he's doin' it on purpose, to keep the fandom alive and in suspense.
But still, no need to be rude if someone is doubting or anything.
It's only a manga, our lives don't depend on it, so no need to be rude.

Exactly. That's his job. It wouldn't be a good manga without it. You can't have a story just to show how good things are going.

[ciardha]

It's interesting that this has been such a back and forth issue between them, that Sakura has always been prioritizing Naruto over Sasuke and neither of them really realized it (Sakura for thinking she hasn't been doing enough to help Naruto - which is pretty false imo, because really, what more could she have done for him? - and Naruto for not seeing hurting himself to keep his promise for her is just hurting Sakura and for not seeing how important he is to her).

Hope that made even a lick of sense - I think I might have talked myself in circles there

No, you did fine, especially in this last paragraph, it sums it up pretty well. We see her begin shift from Naruto equal to Sasuke (a point she reaches really early on, despite her crush on Sasuke, even in chapter 5 it's arguably there: despite what Kakashi says to Sakura- when Naruto is in the greatest danger she focuses on him, when Sasuke is in the greatest anger she focuses on him, and really she's the only one of the three who showed any understanding of the team mate bond, but it's Sasuke's act of defying Kakashi's order and getting Sakura to defy it that passes them.) to beginning to put Naruto over Sasuke, when she sees Naruto in the hospital after facing Sasuke at the end of part 1, she tries even then to try to get Naruto to give up on the POAL

[Verilance]

another example is when she considers withdrawing from the Chunin exam because she doesn't want Naruto to be disappointed by failing. She doesn't care about what Sasuke thinks only Naruto

Edited by Verilance, 31 May 2011 - 12:13 AM.

[ciardha]

another example is when she considers withdrawing from the Chunin exam because she doesn't want Naruto to be disappointed by failing. She doesn't care about what Sasuke thinks only Naruto

Exactly "she was only thinking of Naruto."

[tricksie]

But he said that "saving Sasuke has nothing to do with that promise" - not that Sakura has nothing to do with saving Sasuke. By saying that he is going to save Sasuke, he is keeping his word to her, not going against it.

Hmmm.... Logically, it's a bit of a stretch to say that by absolving himself of his promise he is actually keeping his word.

As my referenced image said before, the promise had everything to do with the Naruto's feelings for Sakura, and nothing to do with saving Sauske. They are two entirely separate issues for Naruto at this point. He is supporting the fact that the promise is not simply being lumped into the laundry list of reasons to save Sasuke. How could it be when he is saying that it has NOTHING to do saving Sasuke, rather than saying, "That's not the main reason I'm going after Sasuke,".

So how is him saying that his desire to save Sasuke has nothing to do with his promise to her diminishing it or her role more so than she has already done herself through her own actions (telling him to give up on saving Sasuke)?

The PoL is something that has been touched on again and again in their character development. I'm not so concerned with who has the greater share of the pushing Naruto when he decides to pursue Sasuke back in part 1, as in your cute comic. I am talking about Naruto's distant reaction to Sakura in the culmination of this character development.

He's distant about everything. When she says to let it go, he acts like he already made that decision, cutting out the Sakura part of the reason behind why he's pursuing Sasuke. I'm not arguing semantics or the greater share of the love.

The PoL was part friendship with Sasuke, part one-sided love of Sakura. So at what point did he let go enough of the one-sided love of Sakura to just cut that part out of the reason he pursues Sasuke? Normal Naruto would have been urging her not to give up, that they'd do it together, blah, blah, blah. Yet he speaks firmly and decisively about his reasoning, letting her out of it without a second thought.

Remember, this is after Sai has just said Sakura's promise is a curse on Naruto on the same level as the ROOT curse on him. Sai is right in saying it was a burden, although he only knows part of it. And Sakura was right in wanting to relieve him of it. It is a promise born of a time when they were not committed to each other, rather committed to parallel purposes. Their one-sided pursuits coincided.

Also, Sakura may have yelled at while he was in the 4-tails kyuubi state, but he didn't remember it. He didn't remember anything. So this would be the first direct time she tells Naruto to let it go. And he says basically that he did a while ago.

But my larger point is that Naruto's reaction is unusual. All of it. Not just about the promise. And I covered that in the last post.

And more and more, I'm beginning to think Naruto's strange reaction had nothing to do with Sakura at all, but maybe some lingering feelings about the village and his role in all of it. Much like the LoverNin in this chapter saying Sakura was great, and in turn she sits down and reflects on all the awful things in her life that make her not-so-great (ie. Sasuke), I think that Sakura saying she saw Naruto as a hero the way the whole village saw him as a hero really struck a nerve.

He didn't see himself as a hero, and he has a lot of pent-up anger about that, as shown in the waterfall of truth. He just found out that Sasuke's killing people and capturing jinchurrikis, he can't convince the raikage to relent in pursuit of Sasuke... yet Sakura says he's great. He's a hero. That's why she loves him. And we know from his own mouth "How can I be hokage if I can't save one friend?" So Sakura says he's great and she loves him and, just like Sakura in the current chapter, he just can't accept it. (Which is why it's important for him to see Kushina and finally have self love. Then he sees Sakura in a positive light.)

*sigh* I think I've completely emptied my brain on this topic....

Edited by tricksie, 31 May 2011 - 01:06 AM.

[Phantom_999]

Good points and Yeah His reaction was a bit strange but we don't know why it happened as it did so lets not dwell on that anymore

Edited by Phantom_999, 31 May 2011 - 01:42 AM.

[Living Lavish]

nah he reaction wasn't strange at all. do we not remember how shocked he was when she told him to give up on the promise? hes upset that she was saying this, cuz he thought out of everyone Sakura would support him.

then got pissed, calm down when Sakura yelled at him, told him to come back home where hes safe, then out of love for sasuke made a decison he still wanted to save him. so he wasn't just talking it off like it meant nothing to him.

tricksie i think your overthinking a little tbh lol

and she didn't just love him just because he was a hero, she is proud of him. well actually he is her hero if you think about it.

[ciardha]

And more and more, I'm beginning to think Naruto's strange reaction had nothing to do with Sakura at all, but maybe some lingering feelings about the village and his role in all of it. Much like the LoverNin in this chapter saying Sakura was great, and in turn she sits down and reflects on all the awful things in her life that make her not-so-great (ie. Sasuke), I think that Sakura saying she saw Naruto as a hero the way the whole village saw him as a hero really struck a nerve.

He didn't see himself as a hero, and he has a lot of pent-up anger about that, as shown in the waterfall of truth. He just found out that Sasuke's killing people and capturing jinchurrikis, he can't convince the raikage to relent in pursuit of Sasuke... yet Sakura says he's great. He's a hero. That's why she loves him. And we know from his own mouth "How can I be hokage if I can't save one friend?" So Sakura says he's great and she loves him and, just like Sakura in the current chapter, he just can't accept it. (Which is why it's important for him to see Kushina and finally have self love. Then he sees Sakura in a positive light.)

Yes! Heh, again we've come to similar conclusions, and I'm firmly convinced the ones Kishimoto was hoping the readers would get. He wants readers to think about things in deep ways, including relationships. He'll throw in silliness from time to time to keep it from getting too heavy (thus the peeing contest and Bee's shocked reaction to Tsunade's breast size) but yeah my manga reading instincts says you and I are on the right track here.

[Phantom_999]

Well thats true too I'm only second guessing it because they seemed to be a bit edgy with each other as the conversation progressed. Something like that has never happened before and seemed out of character for them

[bthug]

Well thats true too I'm only second guessing it because they seemed to be a bit edgy with each other as the conversation progressed. Something like that has never happened before and seemed out of character for them

It's that tension we were looking for

[ciardha]

It's that tension we were looking for

No, we aren't, it's not UST (Unrelieved sexual tension) but the bad kind of tension based on Naruto's clinging to his old mental image of Sakura as the twelve year old unattainable Sasuke fangirl rather than the nearly seventeen year old young woman who has fallen in love with Naruto and has moved on romantically away from Sasuke. Then Naruto's pretty flippant when he does finally tacitly acknowledge that she's fallen in love with him. It takes Sai to clarify things for Naruto, and shatter that rigid mental image he was clinging to of the unattainable 12 year old Sasuke fangirl. Note how he sees her as she is briefly in his mind for the first time when Sai reinforces Sakura's words about having fallen in love with Naruto. He then tries to throw up that wall again arguing with Sai, but Sai finally gets Naruto to the point of shattering that wall when it comes to Sakura, then Gaara comes along and tries to get Naruto to shatter his illusions about Sasuke- both his rigid images challenged, Naruto hyperventilates into unconsciousness. His unconscious time allows him to process the change in Sakura, and we see the shift in that in the way he speaks and acts. But Triskie is right, it wasn't until he faced himself at the waterfall of truth and heard his mother's words and got how much his parents loved and cherished him that he was finally able to fully see in his mind Sakura loves him whole heartedly.

Sakura doesn't know this though, she's relieved that he still feels something for her, but he needs to show her that the depth of his love for her is as deep as hers for him.

[bthug]

Alright thanks ciardha

I was thinking, lets just say HYPOTHETICALLY we were nh or ss fans what would be our biggest argument

for ss im sure it would be 540
as for nh, and the fact that the confession is still left open, which doesnt necessarily scare me, but it bothers me.

[Living Lavish]

Alright thanks ciardha

I was thinking, lets just say HYPOTHETICALLY we were nh or ss fans what would be our biggest argument

for ss im sure it would be 540
as for nh, and the fact that the confession is still left open, which doesnt necessarily scare me, but it bothers me.

Sakura isn't happy about her feelings nor does she thinks shes great. i think we will see her reflect on the past and understanding Sasuke was never all that great to her romantically.

i thought the confession had closure in chapter 450 when we saw Hinata actually smiling at another girl hugging Naruto intimately and she was not hurt. knowing he loves Sakura. Kishi did that for a reason.

there was plenty of chances for Naruto to talk to Hinata before. if kishi was going to have anything between them the best time to develop it would have been right after the pain arc so it make sense.

instead he has Naruto hang around bonding more with Sakura then later its confirmed hes truly loves her.

then Kushina telling him about her love story and to find a girl like her, means he fell in love with the right one.

[Gravenimage]

Alright thanks ciardha

I was thinking, lets just say HYPOTHETICALLY we were nh or ss fans what would be our biggest argument

for ss im sure it would be 540
as for nh, and the fact that the confession is still left open, which doesnt necessarily scare me, but it bothers me.

Almost all the arguments from NH and SS fans to support their pairings are from part 1 (yep from 300+ chapters ago). NH Kishi closed down that one sided pairing with 450 Hinata smiling at the NS romantic hug it will be different if she had a neutral expression but that's not the case. As for SS I won't touch that one because it's been discussed too many times its tiring.

Edited by Gravenimage, 31 May 2011 - 05:31 PM.

[Toasty Warrior]

On the subject of SasuSaku, it still irks me sometimes like yesterday I was talking to someone on other website and they say that SasuSaku can still happen because Sasuke is not in his right mind because of Orochimaru's curse seal, Itachi egging him on, and now Madara supposedly facts in corrupting his mind and once Naruto rescues him, he'll snap out of it and magically return Sakura's feelings, they said it was going to sort itself out like a fairytale where everything ends happily... yeah right!

I mean, come on! We all know Sasuke did all the stuff of his own freewill! He's acting soley on what he wants, nobody is controlling him and if they think SasuSaku still has a chance to happen, I hope the upcoming episode will shake them, but then again nothing seems too. I'll just end my rant here...

[Blazing CobaltX]

On the subject of SasuSaku, it still irks me sometimes like yesterday I was talking to someone on other website and they say that SasuSaku can still happen because Sasuke is not in his right mind because of Orochimaru's curse seal, Itachi egging him on, and now Madara supposedly facts in corrupting his mind and once Naruto rescues him, he'll snap out of it and magically return Sakura's feelings, they said it was going to sort itself out like a fairytale where everything ends happily... yeah right!

I mean, come on! We all know Sasuke did all the stuff of his own freewill! He's acting soley on what he wants, nobody is controlling him and if they think SasuSaku still has a chance to happen, I hope the upcoming episode will shake them, but then again nothing seems too. I'll just end my rant here...

Okay that's a stupid reason. Everybody knows Sasuke lost his Cursed Seal already.

[bthug]

Idk how someone could really think SS could happen, because in my mind Sasuke isn't coming out of this alive, he will be saved but then die....also the simple fact that Sasuke NEVER loved Sakura he called her annoying lol.

And IMO all NH has is the fact that Hinata is borderline obsessed with Naruto.
And just to claify I'm not trying to bash anyone.

Both do have the Kishi factor the simple fact that if Kishi wants to do this he will...but In light of that I'd say Narusaku has the biggest Kishi factor....all the moments and the give and take between Naruto and Sakura and the simple fact that their even was a confession means it's seriously on Kishi's mind