54216 replies to this topic

[BlackBird19]

The argument about whether her love for Sasuke in that moment was platonic or romantic I think will become moot because like I said it seemed as if that outburst was the last part of her that was holding on to him in that light. She needed closure on those feelings and she got it with a genjutsued hand through the chest.

[Naruko]

Sorry but that argument of the same word used by Kakashi is really ridiculous. Of course they use the same word, what would you expect Kakashi to say except daisuki to say he loves Team 7? Really, if you want to prove Sakura doesn't speak romantically, use somehting else than japanese language and raw because it doesn't prove anything. Daisuki can be used both romantically (especially romantically when it's a girl talking about a boy or a boy talking about a girl) and platonically when it's not about romantic love. 

I repeat for the last time, japanese raw doesn't prove that Sakura talks platonically, it's context that tell me she talks romantically, as someone already pointed out, her attitude towards Sasuke since the fight against Kaguya hints that she still have some feelings (decreasing but still there). 

 

The thing is that you talk so much about context but the only context you take into consideration is Sakura saying "daisuki" to Sasuke, a girl saying "daisuki" to a boy, and that normally leads to the conclusion that it's romantic love they're talking about. But the context is the whole chapter 693, in which Kakashi says Sakura doesn't pursue a relationship with him, she not only doesn't pursue it, but doesn't want him to be hers. Taking all of that into consideration, the most reasonable conclusion is that her love is platonic. It makes much more sense than "she loves him romantically, but doesn't want a relationship with him";

 

To be fair, the context is the whole manga, and by Sakura's development throughout the manga, interpreting her words as platonic is the only plausible option in my opinion. 

Edited by Naruko, 18 October 2014 - 07:27 PM.

[咲耶姫]

 

The thing is that you talk so much about context but the only context you take into consideration is Sakura saying "daisuki" to Sasuke, a girl saying "daisuki" to a boy, and that normally leads to the conclusion that it's romantic love they're talking about. But the context is the whole chapter 693, in which Kakashi says Sakura doesn't pursue a relationship with him, she not only doesn't pursue it, but doesn't want him to be hers. Taking all of that into consideration, the most reasonable conclusion is that her love is platonic. It makes much more sense than "she loves him romantically, but doesn't want a relationship with him";

 

To be fair, the context is the whole manga, and by Sakura's development throughout the manga, interpreting her words as platonic is the only plausible option in my opinion. 

The context is her reaction towards Sasuke not caring about her before (I said it in my post but whatever). I'm not saying she doesn't love Naruto or whatever, only that she still have romantic feelings for Sasuke, it was proven enough throughout the manga. And romantic feelings doesn't equal to positive ones. I really don't understand why people think it's a problem and don't want to accept it. 

Also Kakashi says that her aim is not a relationship with Sasuke. He means that her aim is only to save him. As I said to someone, not aiming at a relationship, especially considering the situation in which Sasuke is, that's to say in the darkness, doesn't equal to not loving romantically. 

Also Kakashi used 愛する to describe her feelings, that can't be compared to any other kind of love then romantic. Sorry you can't compare it to family love, it's not comparable to Kushina or Itachi saying to a family member. But I know you won't believe me. I just can hope for another japanese speaker and knowledged in japanese culture people here to confirm what I say here, since I know some of them agree with me on that, at least the ones I talk with about it. 

 

Anyway, I'll stop here, I'm tired of it. 

Edited by 咲耶姫, 18 October 2014 - 07:38 PM.

[Naruko]

The context is her reaction towards Sasuke not caring about her before (I said it in my post but whatever). I'm not saying she doesn't love Naruto or whatever, only that she still have romantic feelings for Sasuke, it was proven enough throughout the manga. And romantic feelings doesn't equal to positive ones. I really don't understand why people think it's a problem and don't want to accept it. 

Also Kakashi says that her aim is not a relationship with Sasuke. He means that her aim is only to save him. As I said to someone, not aiming at a relationship, especially considering the situation in which Sasuke is, that's to say in the darkness, doesn't equal to not loving romantically. 

Also Kakashi used 愛する to describe her feelings, that can't be compared to any other kind of love then romantic. Sorry you can't compare it to family love, it's not comparable to Kushina or Itachi saying to a family member. But I know you won't believe me. I just can hope for another japanese speaker and knowledged in japanese culture people here to confirm what I say here, since I know some of them agree with me on that, at least the ones I talk with about it. 

 

Anyway, I'll stop here, I'm tired of it. 

 

Sorry, but isn't it normal to feel bad if someone you care so much about (platonic love, but still love) doesn't give a kitten if you're dead or alive?

The feeling doesn't have to positive to be romantic yes, but if you love someone romantically, deep in your heart, you want to be with that person as a couple. It's not like she only knows she can't be with him, you can easily know that and still have the desire to be with the person, but no, she doesn't want to be with him. That's what Kakashi said. "She's not wanting or trying to make you hers"

Aikitteneru is the strongest form of love, but still can be used as platonic, and it can be compared to family love because the subject is team 7 and both Naruto and Sakura viewed team 7 as their own family. Naruto views Sasuke as a brother, why can't Sakura love him non-romantically too? Seriously, that's what the chapter implies, it's not just us being biased, it's what makes sense and what doesn't. Read the manga and take Sakura's "daisuki" as romantic. You'll get confused, if not worse. Now take it as platonic. Everything makes sense, such as Sasuke remembering his family after Kakashi told him that. 

 

Just don't come and call people's arguments "ridiculous" when they have such a ground to stand by. 

[咲耶姫]

 

Sorry, but isn't it normal to feel bad if someone you care so much about (platonic love, but still love) doesn't give a kitten if you're dead or alive?

The feeling doesn't have to positive to be romantic yes, but if you love someone romantically, deep in your heart, you want to be with that person as a couple. It's not like she only knows she can't be with him, you can easily know that and still have the desire to be with the person, but no, she doesn't want to be with him. That's what Kakashi said. "She's not wanting or trying to make you hers"

Aikitteneru is the strongest form of love, but still can be used as platonic, and it can be compared to family love because the subject is team 7 and both Naruto and Sakura viewed team 7 as their own family. Naruto views Sasuke as a brother, why can't Sakura love him non-romantically too? Seriously, that's what the chapter implies, it's not just us being biased, it's what makes sense and what doesn't. Read the manga and take Sakura's "daisuki" as romantic. You'll get confused, if not worse. Now take it as platonic. Everything makes sense, such as Sasuke remembering his family after Kakashi told him that. 

 

Just don't come and call people's arguments "ridiculous" when they have such a ground to stand by. 

Okay.... As I said you can believe what you want. I won't get in a fight (especially for  something so ridiculous/insignificant as that) sorry. Bye. 

Edited by 咲耶姫, 18 October 2014 - 07:54 PM.

[六道仙人]

sigh, guys... you cannot compare the kakashi's daisuki with that sakura's. Kakashi is the teacher of team 7, so it's obivous that his love towards team 7 can be only platonic, also because it would totally weird if he feels romantic love towards his subordinates, isn't? Daisuki is used for all kind of love, platonic, romance, tastes, etc..

 

Kakashi and Sakura's feelings are two different things. So what we can twist now? That even the Hinata's daisuki that she used for Naruto is a platonic love?

 

Sakura didn't confessed in 693 but only that her love for him wasn't able to save him, she was despicable to herself.

Edited by 六道仙人, 18 October 2014 - 07:57 PM.

[KnS]

sigh, guys... you cannot compare the kakashi's daisuki with that sakura's. Kakashi is the teacher of team 7, so it's obivous that his love towards team 7 can be only platonic, also because it would totally weird if he feels romantic love towards his subordinates, isn't? Daisuki is used for all kind of love, platonic, romance, tastes, etc..

 

Kakashi and Sakura's feelings are two different things. So what we can twist now? That even the Hinata's daisuki that she used for Naruto is a platonic love?

 

Please indulge me as I'm truly trying to understand this correctly.

 

1. Daisuki can be platonic or romantic.

2. It should be assumed that Kakashi's use of daisuki was platonic because of relationship and context.

3. Sakura used daisuki but it cannot be considered platonic in context because:

    a. she has had feelings for Sasuke in the past so the assumption must be that she still has them because she used daisuki.

    b. because Hinata used daisuki in her confession of romantic love to Naruto, that proves that Sakura's use of daisuki was definitely romantic as well.

 

Is that right?

[Akashi]

The context is her reaction towards Sasuke not caring about her before (I said it in my post but whatever). I'm not saying she doesn't love Naruto or whatever, only that she still have romantic feelings for Sasuke, it was proven enough throughout the manga. And romantic feelings doesn't equal to positive ones. I really don't understand why people think it's a problem and don't want to accept it. 

Also Kakashi says that her aim is not a relationship with Sasuke. He means that her aim is only to save him. As I said to someone, not aiming at a relationship, especially considering the situation in which Sasuke is, that's to say in the darkness, doesn't equal to not loving romantically. 

Also Kakashi used 愛する to describe her feelings, that can't be compared to any other kind of love then romantic. Sorry you can't compare it to family love, it's not comparable to Kushina or Itachi saying to a family member. But I know you won't believe me. I just can hope for another japanese speaker and knowledged in japanese culture people here to confirm what I say here, since I know some of them agree with me on that, at least the ones I talk with about it. 

 

Anyway, I'll stop here, I'm tired of it. 

I agree with you on this one.   

I'm sure she meant "I love you" in a romantic kind of way. I don't see why so many people freak out because of this.. we knew she loved him romantically all this time. Both Naruto and Kakashi confirmed this (Sakura's confession & 693 respectively). Also she thought of Sasuke during the love-letter-nin scene, and during team 7's fight againts Madara (when she got injured and Sasuke totally ignored it she obviously looked sad & thought something like "Sasuke-kun doesn't care").

You see, the problem is that she's so fixated on him that she doesn't realize her love for Naruto. I'd say her love for Sasuke is some mix of delusions and wishful thinking. She loves that perfect image she created inside her head.. and that's what makes her suffer. On the other hand her love for Naruto she is yet to realize I'd call the true form of love. The genuine and selfless feelings with strong foundation. She just doesn't understand that the guy she truly loves is indeed Naruto.

Let's hope Sasuke's genjutsu will help her finally open her eyes.

[Silent Storm]

Guys, come on:

 

693 wasn't a confession because she's already confessed her feelings towards him and was rejection. 693 was her saying that despite "loving" Sasuke she wasn't able to reach him or do anything else to stop him walking down this path. She then says if he evens feels a little thing for Sakura then rather kill her best friend and master, stop this and return so team 7 can laugh together again.

 

Despite what happened nothing changes with SasuSaku as like before, Sasuke rejected her feelings/pleas and trampled on them. Kakashi was right that she wasn't interested in a relationship because her priority at that time was to save him from darkness. She can't fight him so appealing to his feelings is a last resort, which thankfully didn't work or sway Sasuke in any way (as it looks right now). Her loving Sasuke is expected but still does nothing to progress the SasuSaku relationship because Sasuke says he has no reason to love nor has his character been tied to anything romantic. SasuSaku is a Sakura / insecurity thing and moving on from those feelings is or should be the next step towards her character development. People can spin and rationalise it all they want but at the end of the day, Kishi decided to crush her heart in a genjutsu, which is about as "extreme" as you can get without killing her.

Edited by Silent Storm, 18 October 2014 - 08:33 PM.

[BlackBird19]

So according to those that say she used the romantic form of love that means what, that SS is canon or Sakura will be seen at the end of the manga as the sad pathetic girl that never got the boy of her dreams? I mean does that really make sense to y'all? Nobody wants to believe that 693 was the last desperate release of those dwindling romantic feelings she's clung to for a boy who has been a constant danger to himself and others for over 4 years. Nope she said she loved him and that's it. She'll forever be known as that pathetic girl from Naruto who only loved the bad boy of the series. 

[Silent Storm]

So according to those that say she used the romantic form of love that means what, that SS is canon or Sakura will be seen at the end of the manga as the sad pathetic girl that never got the boy of her dreams? I mean does that really make sense to y'all? Nobody wants to believe that 693 was the last desperate release of those dwindling romantic feelings she's clung to for a boy who has been a constant danger to himself and others for over 4 years. Nope she said she loved him and that's it. She'll forever be known as that pathetic girl from Naruto who only loved the bad boy of the series. 

 

Nobody is saying that.

[BlackBird19]

I was just summing up the way a lot people are coming off, whether they mean to or not. Not attacking them, just letting them know how it sounds. The paranoia around here is becoming laughable.

Edited by BlackBird19, 18 October 2014 - 08:43 PM.

[六道仙人]

 

Please indulge me as I'm truly trying to understand this correctly.

 

1. Daisuki can be platonic or romantic.

2. It should be assumed that Kakashi's use of daisuki was platonic because of relationship and context.

3. Sakura used daisuki but it cannot be considered platonic in context because:

    a. she has had feelings for Sasuke in the past so the assumption must be that she still has them because she used daisuki.

    b. because Hinata used daisuki in her confession of romantic love to Naruto, that proves that Sakura's use of daisuki was definitely romantic as well.

 

Is that right?

 

yes. But as i have already said. there's something who get a bigger blow in that chapter, and that's the SS itself. Sakura considers herself as disgrace and admitted her feelings for him are a failure since she hasn't been able to save him, even though she loves him. And guys, I honestly don't know how SS fandom took that chapter as a pro hint, really.

[Silent Storm]

 

yes. But as i have already said. there's something who get a bigger blow in that chapter, and that's the SS itself. Sakura considers herself as disgrace and admitted her feelings for him are a failure since she hasn't been able to save him, even though she loves him. And guys, I honestly don't know how SS fandom took that chapter as a pro hint, really.

 

Exactly.

[KnS]

 

yes. But as i have already said. there's something who get a bigger blow in that chapter, and that's the SS itself. Sakura considers herself as disgrace and admitted her feelings for him are a failure since she hasn't been able to save him, even though she loves him. And guys, I honestly don't know how SS fandom took that chapter as a pro hint, really.

 

I am not concerned about SS.  I have no doubt in my mind that it is dead because I never believed it was alive.

 

I was specifically trying to understand the use of language.  How a word (such as daisuki) can mean different types of love but yet people can know for a fact what kind of love it is based on who says it.  I guess a girl can never use it about a boy and it be platonic, then.  Good to know.

 

It seems to me that how Sakura meant it could be taken either way and that the platonic meaning had a chance of being correct, but I will have to take the word of Japanese speakers that there is absolutely no chance that it meant anything other than she's still in love with Sasuke.

 

 

As to Sasuke stabbing Sakura within the genjutsu... why didn't he just kill her for real?  From the context and the words he apparently chooses he considers her useless and has no regard for her life, so why did he only pretend kill her?  

 

After all, his entire goal at the moment is to end Naruto's life and kick his carcass out of the way, so why was Sakura spared?

[xxRomanceGirlxx]

@KnS:

 

I partly agree with you. That's what my impression of 693 is: just for suspense, drama, and to cast doubt on NaruSaku when we're getting in our final stretches. I honestly don't think it particularly cemented her feelings either. I think it was the last moment that would destroy those feelings.

 

But IMO it doesn't change the fact I think she meant romantic love. And to say she still loves Sasuke doesn't contradict everything ... I can understand why some people believe that. 693, for example, is currently debatable. But like you I don't think it will lead anywhere but the death of SS and transition to NS.

 

I'm not necessarily arguing Sakura does still love Sasuke. By the context of 693 and 675, her feelings probably changed from Kakashi's perspective. What I argue is that there's no proof Sakura knows this, ergo it's possible she meant her daisuki romantically.

[BlackBird19]

Yeah there was nothing pro SS about that chapter at all. She confronted him and her feelings and let it be known it was just pathetic. That's why I say it was her closure chapter in terms of her love for sasuke. She finally got it out. Now all that's left is for her move forward.

[六道仙人]

guys, the biggest threat here isn't SS, it's NH. Sometimes I have feelings that Kishimoto likes more the positive love of Hinata towards Naruto.

 

SS is already a disgrace by itself. NS is in the limbo and still depends all from Naruto (who has never made a move towards Sakura, seriously, this guy need to do something).

[Naruko]

I don't think it was platonic because Kakashi said the same word. I think it's platonic because since he has said it, we know that it can be used as platonic love and by Kakashi's words, Sakura's facial expressions and her development throughout the story, having it platonic makes more sense, it actually is the the only option that makes sense to me, the only way of having 693 not being confusing. 

 

Let me try to explain, Kakashi used aikitteneru. Take a look at every form of romantic love Sakura had towards Sasuke. Do you think they deserved aikitteneru? Because to me, they looked immature and the evolution of a crush, nothing selfless, only selfish love. Every romantic love Sakura has been shown to feel towards Sasuke never considered his feelings or tried to understand him. On the other side, Naruto's love has. His love towards Sasuke deserves aikitteneru, his love is selfless and it's platonic. Sakura's romantic childish love can't suddenly become so strong and selfless. Out of nothing. Though as she stood by Naruto's side and tried so much to bring him back, missed so much the team 7 times, she could have developed such kind of platonic love. Ramenamitsu has said aikitteneru is barely used among young people nowadays in Japan. In the manga, we've seen it being used only as platonic love. Because it's so pure that not even Hinata's huge obsession for Naruto (and positive love like Rikudou said) deserves the word. And guess what, in the same quote where Kakashi used it, he said Sakura wasn't wanting or trying to make Sasuke hers, what's so romantic about that? Using such a word about her feelings when her romantic feelings were nothing more than fangirlish?

 

Now let's see how the logic works if her feelings are romantic.

- Her crush has suddenly become such a strong romantic selfless love that Kakashi used the word aikitteneru referring to it.

- Though she doesn't want to be with him. She just wants to be back to the old times... (those times when he always rejected her), but still, she loves him romantically, because she did before, so she obviously still does. 

- Sasuke remembered his family when talking about the topic. Why? Dunno.

- Kakashi said love doesn't need a reason, though obviously, romantic love needs a reason. So what love is he talking about? 

 

There are too many holes in the chapter like that, things doesn't have a connection with each other. I'm not saying it's a pro SS hint that way, Sasuke just killed it. But it just doesn't make any sense to me.      

 

Now if we see it on the other way:

 

- Sakura feels platonic love towards him. A strong a selfless love, though she blames herself since it's not enough to bring him back. Just like Nardo's. 

- She says she wanna be back to the old times (when they were just friends and nothing more than that)

- Kakashi says love doesn't need reason, which is a very wise quote IF you take the "love" as platonic, friendly and compassionate. Because falling in love with someone out of nothing is not wise, it's not love (romantic). 

- Kakashi says she doesn't want to be with him, she just wants to save him because she loves (aikitteneru) him.

- Sasuke thinks of his family. 

 

It looks flawless to me in the logical aspect. 

Edited by Naruko, 18 October 2014 - 09:06 PM.

[Syn11]

I'm the one who is pretty sure that Sakura's feelings are 90% platonic at this point. The only romantic thing about this "dai suki" is that she is yet (perhaps) to realize this simple fact. That is why so many other characters had to decipher her emotional state instead of Sakura herself, and they judge by the actions, and those actions speak loudly and quite clearly. We are yet to see what Sakura really feels from her own thoughts. Because lately she was expressing mostly frustration regarding Sasuke. She has been confused all this time. 

Edited by Syn11, 18 October 2014 - 09:11 PM.