54216 replies to this topic

[Syn11]

I wouldn't go as far to say the "evidence" is irrefutable, but when you compare it to other pairings, their dynamics and how Kishimoto built them up then NaruSaku's development has a much better chance of leading somewhere than something like NaruHina.

 

SasuSaku....idk what to say about it.

 

Kinda funny cause if you guys remember Escaflowne, the set up was similar but far less antagonism. The main heroine was in love with the second protagonist, but the main hero was in love with her, who also had a friend that was in love with him. What's funny about that set up was the girl (Hitomi) actually got to kiss her first love interest and their relationship had more romantic development. In the end, she comes to realise she loves the male protagonist in the last episode but they get separated in the end *shrugs*.

 

So it's not out there that Sakura might follow in the same direction. Will still be kitten but it's been done before. NaruSaku is in a better position because SasuSaku has kitten all romantic development from Sasuke's side. :)

I knew from the very beginning of "Escaflowne" that Hitomi was going to end up with the young king... obviously. Like most pairings in manga/anime/other series. Even when it's about harems, the hero/heroine usually chooses the first who he/she is attracted to (in broader sense). That can be considered a law of romance. There are exceptions, but those are exceptions that actually prove the rule. Shounen is not as predictable because the romance is blurred and deprived of clear signs. But it also conforms to the said law. NS is the most plausible option. More precisely put, it is the only option, threatened by the open ending.

Edited by Syn11, 15 October 2014 - 01:14 PM.

[Alessa]

I started to reread Naruto slowly to prepare myself emotionally for the END (aka to pump up the drama of this manga ending, add the hype).

 

And I have to say. It is so strange.

 

Really, NarutoxSakura relationship in part 2 had an amazing start. It rocketed ahead, there were so many "moments of truth", signs, hints. Sakura was determined, she cared for Naruto deeply, she supported him stongly. She was ready to sacrifice herself for him, he was the most significant person on her radar.TWICE she came close to realizing she loves him. I mean, seriously, it looked like the deal was sealed. There were no signs of her loving Sasuke the way she did before, it was mostly Team 7 theme. Whenever Sasuke was mentioned, it was mostly about Naruto's feelings, Sakura's empathy. She herself was mostly thinking and talking about Naruto's friendship with Sasuke.

 

While readin Part 2 until...321 or something I didn't have to wait for more than a couple of chapters to get another pro-NS or pro-Sakura moment. It was so smooth. It was vivid where the author was going with this. It was about Sakura becoming stronger, more useful, more considerate towards Naruto, acknowledging him and finally - developing love for him. If the manga were to end in a couple of years from that point, I am sure we would get a smooth, believable romantic ending (NS and SasuNaru on the side). 

 

And then it all stopped. Sakura disappeared from the main action, Naruto's development all suddenly became 100 percent motivated by Sasuke, Sakura became colder towards Naruto, she stopped showing her concern for him so strongly and repeatedly, even rare NS moments started to be pure comic relief or have Sasuke's shadow strongly present (not as a point of interest for both like before, but as a central figure).

 

I have the feeling that after the first Part 2 meeting with Sasuke the editors just told Kishimoto to slow down. They told him that his manga is probably going to last another several years (five at least), so making the final pairing too obvious would be damaging. And good guy Kishi made the best he could with his literary skills - he just stagnated the romantic plot, entered a bunch of strange HInata scenes (that didn't matter since never referenced after) and neglected the previous development as if it mattered little. He was so loyal to his editors, it seems, that he dragged popular SS pairing up to the very last chapters. 

Of course, the early Part 2 NS development mattered a lot, it reflected Kishi's intentions, but he could not act upon them, it seems, so he moved away from the main romantic plot and all the previous development started looking somewhat insignificant. But it was just stagnation with a bunch of fanservice on top of it. All due to the problem that the author rarely has knowledge of how long his manga will last.

EDIT: I would add that Sakura's character suffered from this stagnation the most, because unfortunately her character is majorly about love and Team 7 love triangle. Prolonging NS resolution by neglecting it, Kishi neglected her.

Edited by Alessa, 15 October 2014 - 01:53 PM.

[Syn11]

Uhichas like plague... they ruin every other character. Naruto's image also suffered. Too much attention was being drawn to that cursed clan. =(

Edited by Syn11, 15 October 2014 - 02:07 PM.

[ns.Believe.It]

I started to reread Naruto slowly to prepare myself emotionally for the END (aka to pump up the drama of this manga ending, add the hype).

 

And I have to say. It is so strange.

 

Really, NarutoxSakura relationship in part 2 had an amazing start. It rocketed ahead, there were so many "moments of truth", signs, hints. Sakura was determined, she cared for Naruto deeply, she supported him stongly. She was ready to sacrifice herself for him, he was the most significant person on her radar.TWICE she came close to realizing she loves him. I mean, seriously, it looked like the deal was sealed. There were no signs of her loving Sasuke the way she did before, it was mostly Team 7 theme. Whenever Sasuke was mentioned, it was mostly about Naruto's feelings, Sakura's empathy. She herself was mostly thinking and talking about Naruto's friendship with Sasuke.

 

While readin Part 2 until...321 or something I didn't have to wait for more than a couple of chapters to get another pro-NS or pro-Sakura moment. It was so smooth. It was vivid where the author was going with this. It was about Sakura becoming stronger, more useful, more considerate towards Naruto, acknowledging him and finally - developing love for him. If the manga were to end in a couple of years from that point, I am sure we would get a smooth, believable romantic ending (NS and SasuNaru on the side). 

 

And then it all stopped. Sakura disappeared from the main action, Naruto's development all suddenly became 100 percent motivated by Sasuke, Sakura became colder towards Naruto, she stopped showing her concern for him so strongly and repeatedly, even rare NS moments started to be pure comic relief or have Sasuke's shadow strongly present (not as a point of interest for both like before, but as a central figure).

 

I have the feeling that after the first Part 2 meeting with Sasuke the editors just told Kishimoto to slow down. They told him that his manga is probably going to last another several years (five at least), so making the final pairing too obvious would be damaging. And good guy Kishi made the best he could with his literary skills - he just stagnated the romantic plot, entered a bunch of strange HInata scenes (that didn't matter since never referenced after) and neglected the previous development as if it mattered little. He was so loyal to his editors, it seems, that he dragged popular SS pairing up to the very last chapters. 

Of course, the early Part 2 NS development mattered a lot, it reflected Kishi's intentions, but he could not act upon them, it seems, so he moved away from the main romantic plot and all the previous development started looking somewhat insignificant. But it was just stagnation with a bunch of fanservice on top of it. All due to the problem that the author rarely has knowledge of how long his manga will last.

EDIT: I would add that Sakura's character suffered from this stagnation the most, because unfortunately her character is majorly about love and Team 7 love triangle. Prolonging NS resolution by neglecting it, Kishi neglected her.

Excellent post. I agree. The Tenchi bridge part of the story, Sai's arc, was especially centered around Naruto and Sakura's growing bond.

At that point I was like- 'Come on you two, Just kiss already! Its so obvious you love each other '   

[abloublou]

I started to reread Naruto slowly to prepare myself emotionally for the END (aka to pump up the drama of this manga ending, add the hype).

 

And I have to say. It is so strange.

 

Really, NarutoxSakura relationship in part 2 had an amazing start. It rocketed ahead, there were so many "moments of truth", signs, hints. Sakura was determined, she cared for Naruto deeply, she supported him stongly. She was ready to sacrifice herself for him, he was the most significant person on her radar.TWICE she came close to realizing she loves him. I mean, seriously, it looked like the deal was sealed. There were no signs of her loving Sasuke the way she did before, it was mostly Team 7 theme. Whenever Sasuke was mentioned, it was mostly about Naruto's feelings, Sakura's empathy. She herself was mostly thinking and talking about Naruto's friendship with Sasuke.

 

While readin Part 2 until...321 or something I didn't have to wait for more than a couple of chapters to get another pro-NS or pro-Sakura moment. It was so smooth. It was vivid where the author was going with this. It was about Sakura becoming stronger, more useful, more considerate towards Naruto, acknowledging him and finally - developing love for him. If the manga were to end in a couple of years from that point, I am sure we would get a smooth, believable romantic ending (NS and SasuNaru on the side). 

 

And then it all stopped. Sakura disappeared from the main action, Naruto's development all suddenly became 100 percent motivated by Sasuke, Sakura became colder towards Naruto, she stopped showing her concern for him so strongly and repeatedly, even rare NS moments started to be pure comic relief or have Sasuke's shadow strongly present (not as a point of interest for both like before, but as a central figure).

 

I have the feeling that after the first Part 2 meeting with Sasuke the editors just told Kishimoto to slow down. They told him that his manga is probably going to last another several years (five at least), so making the final pairing too obvious would be damaging. And good guy Kishi made the best he could with his literary skills - he just stagnated the romantic plot, entered a bunch of strange HInata scenes (that didn't matter since never referenced after) and neglected the previous development as if it mattered little. He was so loyal to his editors, it seems, that he dragged popular SS pairing up to the very last chapters. 

Of course, the early Part 2 NS development mattered a lot, it reflected Kishi's intentions, but he could not act upon them, it seems, so he moved away from the main romantic plot and all the previous development started looking somewhat insignificant. But it was just stagnation with a bunch of fanservice on top of it. All due to the problem that the author rarely has knowledge of how long his manga will last.

EDIT: I would add that Sakura's character suffered from this stagnation the most, because unfortunately her character is majorly about love and Team 7 love triangle. Prolonging NS resolution by neglecting it, Kishi neglected her.

Agree.

At first it looks like Kishi was taking a straight forward course (and I liked it better that way).

[Nostradamus]

Uhichas like plague... they ruin every other character. Naruto's image also suffered. Too much attention was being drawn to that cursed clan. =(

It's not really the Uchiha. It's just Sasuke.

Sasuke is like the Hinata of this story. Doesn't have a purpose to exist. Doesn't have any real motivations just copies from others.

[ns.Believe.It]

It's not really the Uchiha. It's just Sasuke.

Obito might have something to say about this.

 

 

 

Sasuke is like the Hinata of this story. Doesn't have a purpose to exist. Doesn't have any real motivations just copies from others.

Of course he has! His purpose is to get trolled and provide lots of laughter to all of us 

[abloublou]

It's not really the Uchiha. It's just Sasuke.

Sasuke is like the Hinata of this story. Doesn't have a purpose to exist. Doesn't have any real motivations just copies from others.

It pains me to see you kittening on 2 of my fav characters...

Hinata barely is there at all, though... You can't compare her to Sasuke. She's easy to ignore if you stay away from the rabid shipping tards, and have no emotional involvement in the romantic subplot regarding Naruto... Sasuke IS the plot.

 

I think shippuden problem is that the ridiculous power inflation made 95% of the cast irrelevant, and instead of exploring the universe and giving his side characters a little bit of depth, it all became about Naruto becoming the messiah and the narsas bond to the point it became a grand destined thing that would save the world instead of a regular friendship. It's weird to see Naruto seemingly ignoring Sakura and the rest of his Konoha's buddies to obssess so much over Sasuke (he even fainted, )

Also making Naruto the destined one was  extremelly disapointing in that Neji was right all along.

 

I wonder if Kishi made the choice to abandon  Konoha's side cast so that SP could  flesh them in the filler). It's still disapointing.

[Alessa]

Agree.

At first it looks like Kishi was taking a straight forward course (and I liked it better that way).

Yeah, it feels like this:

Editor: Wowowowow! Slow down, would'ya! We're gonna milk this cow for another 10 years! Do you wanna write a steady couple for 10 years? Back down!

Kishi: 10 years of money, hell yeah! Damn I almost made Sakura realize her feelings! Good thing I made Naruto interrupt Yamato to create a brilliant uncertainty! Phew, missed a bullet there! Nothing said aloud = nothing confirmed! Buys us time.

Editor: Yeah, we can just go on like nothing happened for 9 years at least.

Kishi: Now lets make it as if Sakura still cares for nothing but Sasuke. She saw him in the last chapter in this cool new outfit, so it would seem natural. And as for Naruto... well he saw him in this new outfit too, so I guess we can intensify bromance to cover up. Well, these dynamics made this manga popular, why not revisit? And there was also this character I created in part one... gee, what's her name?.. she was there to make Neiji vs Naruto fight more dramatic and Naruto look more desirable....

Editor: Hinata.

Kishi: Himota...Hi-na-ta. Riiight! I remeber drawing her in one panel a couple of years ago. Good thinking, me! Such strategist I am! Now we can make her one of the main characters all of a sudden and rival Sakura.

Editor: Nah, Sakura can't rival Hinata, she sees nothing but Sasuke.

Kishi: Well, let her fandom rival Hinata for her, they'll manage. And Naruto can go on with poker face, so people won't remember that we almost screwed up by breaking all bariers on NS way too soon.

Editor: Geez, Kishi, are you the best author ever lived, or what? But NS canon in the end?

Kishi: Of course NS canon, what am I, nuts?

Edited by Alessa, 15 October 2014 - 03:00 PM.

[Nostradamus]

Obito might have something to say about this.

 

Of course he has! His purpose is to get trolled and provide lots of laughter to all of us 

At least Obito was consistent. He always was "Rin, Rin, Rin, Rin, Rin", it was pathetic when you think about it. But it was consistent.

Sasuke on the other hand is like "Ahhhhh, Ahhhhh, Ahhhhhh, Ahhhh, Revenge, Ahhhhh, Ahhhh, I don't know what to do. Ahhhhh, More Revenge, Ahhhh, Viva La Revolution. And the most predictable of them all: I don't know who I am or what exactly do I want." Something that we'll get in the following chapters.

[luffyq1]

It pains me to see you sh**ting on 2 of my fav characters...

Hinata barely is there at all, though... You can't compare her to Sasuke. She's easy to ignore if you stay away from the rabid shipping tards, and have no emotional involvement in the romantic subplot regarding Naruto... Sasuke IS the plot.

 

I think shippuden problem is that the ridiculous power inflation made 95% of the cast irrelevant, and instead of exploring the universe and giving his side characters a little bit of depth, it all became about Naruto becoming the messiah and the narsas bond to the point it became a grand destined thing that would save the world instead of a regular friendship. It's weird to see Naruto seemingly ignoring Sakura and the rest of his Konoha's buddies to obssess so much over Sasuke (he even fainted, )

Also making Naruto the destined one was  extremelly disapointing in that Neji was right all along.

 

I wonder if Kishi made the choice to abandon  Konoha's side cast so that SP could  flesh them in the filler). It's still disapointing.

the hyperventilating naruto always gets me lol.

[ns.Believe.It]

At least Obito was consistent. He always was "Rin, Rin, Rin, Rin, Rin", it was pathetic when you think about it. But it was consistent.

Sasuke on the other hand is like "Ahhhhh, Ahhhhh, Ahhhhhh, Ahhhh, Revenge, Ahhhhh, Ahhhh, I don't know what to do. Ahhhhh, More Revenge, Ahhhh, Viva La Revolution. And the most predictable of them all: I don't know who I am or what exactly do I want." Something that we'll get in the following chapters.

That's why I said Sasuke is like a comedy character   The best part is he is sometimes a parody of himself.

Edited by ns.Believe.It, 15 October 2014 - 02:59 PM.

[Nostradamus]

That's why I said Sasuke is like a comedy character   The best part is he is sometimes a parody of himself.

Sad but true.

[Syn11]

Itachi, Obito, SASUKE... Kishimoto pampered them too much. Madara is another catastrophy. I've always been on the Senju's side.

Edited by Syn11, 15 October 2014 - 03:45 PM.

[abloublou]

Yeah, it feels like this:

Editor: Wowowowow! Slow down, would'ya! We're gonna milk this cow for another 10 years! Do you wanna write a steady couple for 10 years? Back down!

Kishi: 10 years of money, hell yeah! Damn I almost made Sakura realize her feelings! Good thing I made Naruto interrupt Yamato to create a brilliant uncertainty! Phew, missed a bullet there! Nothing said aloud = nothing confirmed! Buys us time.

Editor: Yeah, we can just go on like nothing happened for 9 years at least.

Kishi: Now lets make it as if Sakura still cares for nothing but Sasuke. She saw him in the last chapter in this cool new outfit, so it would seem natural. And as for Naruto... well he saw him in this new outfit too, so I guess we can intensify bromance to cover up. Well, these dynamics made this manga popular, why not revisit? And there was also this character I created in part one... gee, what's her name?.. she was there to make Neiji vs Naruto fight more dramatic and Naruto look more desirable....

Editor: Hinata.

Kishi: Himota...Hi-na-ta. Riiight! I remeber drawing her in one panel a couple of years ago. Good thinking, me! Such strategist I am! Now we can make her one of the main characters all of a sudden and rival Sakura.

Editor: Nah, Sakura can't rival Hinata, she sees nothing but Sasuke.

Kishi: Well, let her fandom rival Hinata for her, they'll manage. And Naruto can go on with poker face, so people won't remember that we almost screwed up by breaking all bariers on NS way too soon.

Editor: Geez, Kishi, are you the best author ever lived, or what? But NS canon in the end?

Kishi: Of course NS canon, what am I, nuts?

Kishi : Also let's replace development by subtle parallels and cryptic approval from Naruto's parents. I'm such a genius.

It's going to work for SK too, Sasuke can even stab Karin and just treat her like kitten, it'll turn all fine and satisfying in the end if I parallel it to NaruSaku. Plus people will like it as it's like SS and SS is popular. That way Sasuke will have a child who will be Naruto's son's rival in the epilogue to fit my rince and repeat every generation theme.

 

I'm so proud of myself !!!

Edited by abloublou, 15 October 2014 - 03:11 PM.

[abloublou]

the hyperventilating naruto always gets me lol.

It was hilarious, I also really liked Sasuke's line regarding Naruto's obssession toward him : "WTF is wrong with you !" It conveyed my feelings perfectly.

Edited by abloublou, 15 October 2014 - 03:23 PM.

[AHK]

Itachi, Obito, SASUKE... Kishimoto pampered them too much. Madara is another catastrophy. I've always been on Senju's side.

I've always been on the Senjus side as well, but I loved Obito and Itachi. I thought Madara was ok. Other than Obito and Itachi, the other Uchihas were lackluster to say the least.

[Nostradamus]

It was hilarious, I also really liked Sasuke's line regarding Naruto's feelings toward him : "WTF is wrong with you !"

"Because I love you! In that way!" - Naruto's response to Sasuke

Edited by Nostradamus, 15 October 2014 - 03:45 PM.

[Alessa]

It was hilarious, I also really liked Sasuke's line regarding Naruto's feelings toward him : "WTF is wrong with you !"

Ahahahah, so true! "WTF is wrong with you" and now his response to Sakura's 693 confession - Sasuke refuses to put up with shounen laws of bromance and romance. He is like: F*** this genre crap.

[luffyq1]

Ahahahah, so true! "WTF is wrong with you" and now his response to Sakura's 693 confession - Sasuke refuses to put up with shounen laws of bromance and romance. He is like: F*** this genre crap.

the sauce always speaks the truth even if it hurts.

Edited by luffyq1, 15 October 2014 - 03:31 PM.