413 replies to this topic

[RasenHolder]

wow this has gotten far.. narusaku will happen but itll take time.. sakura needs to mature and naruto needs to believe like u all said. takes time oh well thats are kishi XD

[ciardha]

@ciardha:

I completely agree 100% with your post!! I'm one of the firm believers that the sand siblings will play a role in all this. Gaara would man up Naruto & make him see reality, while Temari would help Sakura sort out her feelings. (in fact, I sort of hope if this does happen, it will also help Shikatema a bit forward )

Thanks! I noticed the strong similarities in the roles and reactions that Kishimoto had play out with Temari re Gaara about Sasuke and his reaction and Shikamaru re Sakura and her reaction. Kishimoto does things like that for a reason and Gaara clearly understands Naruto and Sakura having bonds to Sasuke, but like Sakura he's come to the reluctant conclusion that Sasuke is just too far gone. He's in one of the most likely position to understand them both and their decisions- look how Kishimoto made Gaara the calm voice of reason at the Kage summit too. We know Gaara is looking for Kakashi and Naruto...

And Miss Soupy, I'm just pointing out the negative things about Naruto's behaviors because the people in their posts going on and on about how Sakura's "a lying b hurting poor innocent Naruto on purpose" to balance things out -get people to notice how Naruto because how he's lying to himself on several points, including his own self deception about Sasuke it makes him come across as a self-righteous hypocrite. He is also quick to judge people harshly before he knows the truth of the matter- look again at the ugly words he said to Tsunade in 405. He's now doing this to Sakura.

Edited by ciardha, 01 November 2009 - 03:48 AM.

[Shadowmoon~]

I was just able to read the chapter today. And, I'm so late! 18 pages already?! That's so fast. Anyway, for me, the confession was a bit ... off for Sakura's character, but there's this small feeling I have at the back of my mind, that it's completely genuine on Sakura's part. I'll just have to wait and see on what happens next!

[tricksie]

Awesome, awesome posts!

I've thought of a few things as I've been reading through:

One of the main points of this saga is the younger generation overtaking the old, doing what they couldn't, making better choices, yada, yada, yada. Kishimoto has really spent time developing the relationship between Jiraiya and Tsunada for the reader. We all understand fully that there was some unrequited love there, on both sides to varying extents (Tsunade seemed to be truly appreciating him there at the end). I think this relationship was fleshed out for a reason - so we can see how Naruto and Sakura will amend their masters' failures. Naruto will be steady and purposeful where Jiraiya was a rake, Sakura will recognize his true worth where Tsunade always pushed him Jiraiya away...you know, something along those lines.

Also, both Jiraiya and Tsunade's lives were altered by Orochimaru's defection. There was "a time before" and "a time after" that was hinges around Oro. Jiraiya might have stayed, things could have been different for him and Tsu if he had not left. Their relationship with him was not fleshed out because it's not important to the big picture. What the readers have to take away from that is Jiraiya and Tsunade were not able to move past Orochimaru's betrayal and he spent the rest of his life observing him still Naruto stumbled into him.

Naruto could follow in Jiraiya's footsteps and follow Sasuke around. Sakura could simply always dismiss Naruto as genius idiot. But we have the gameplan laid out before us that they will make better decisions, and Sakura is already altering her future by recognizing Naruto's true worth (yeah, I know, trainwreck confession aside). She will not wait until they're grandparents to give him an opening.


ALSO, we're all still assuming Naruto's feelings for Sakura. As readers, we're still believing Naruto's feelings for Sakura haven't changed... but we simply don't know how he's responded to Hinata. It's going to change him, somehow, someway, big or small. It's going to have an impact. And his reponse to her has been kept away from the readers completely. I smell a curve ball!

I think he's going to have some interaction with Hinata before he makes his way back to Sakura. It's easy to see that she has to choose Naruto over Sasuke, but now Naruto has to make a choice too, which is vitally important to a mature love. Naruto has to ascend from the childish crush to a grown-up love of the most desperate and passionate kind. He has to make a choice too.

[pinkheartsyellowstars]

ALSO, we're all still assuming Naruto's feelings for Sakura. As readers, we're still believing Naruto's feelings for Sakura haven't changed... but we simply don't know how he's responded to Hinata. It's going to change him, somehow, someway, big or small. It's going to have an impact. And his reponse to her has been kept away from the readers completely. I smell a curve ball!

I think he's going to have some interaction with Hinata before he makes his way back to Sakura. It's easy to see that she has to choose Naruto over Sasuke, but now Naruto has to make a choice too, which is vitally important to a mature love. Naruto has to ascend from the childish crush to a grown-up love of the most desperate and passionate kind. He has to make a choice too.

Nice Post

but the only thing that I cannot get, is that how come Hinata's been doing in this time. She has not been relevant during the previous chapters.

I mean yeah it has a great chance that the Hinata's conclusion could be put in that way where Naruto will encounter Hinata but after Sakura's Confession?

I am quite assured that the conclusion for Hinata will be somewhat in a form of a flashback(I had observed many flashbacks in the recent chapters )

Edited by pinkheartsyellowstars, 01 November 2009 - 03:43 PM.

[tricksie]

TY

Yeah, I think it will be a flashback. Which is such a cheeseball way of doing things, but it seems to be used a lot in Naruto. I'm kind of thinking that his response to Hinata will be presented in a flashback, then post-Sakura confession there will be some time when he has to truly make a choice.

I just have a feeling they're going to have a date or something. I don't think it will be so easy as him saying "Eh, no thanks, Hinata. But I like people like you!" I bet Kishimoto's going to drag this out for a while. Wasn't it the Konoha Gaikuden (sp?) where he took out Hinata on a picnic and Sakura got jealous? Not that it's a precedent, I just can't help thinking that he's going to heighten the tension before he gives us relief!

On another note, did anyone think Mr. Peace-Loving-Ninja Naruto used some awfully strong language with Sakura? Her dialogue starts with "I like/love you" and his response is "I hate...." Has he ever said he hated anything in the past? I can't remember that he has. It's pretty shocking, and her expression shows that she is shocked, which also reinforces my belief that Naruto has changed some of opinions a little bit (cue flashback so that we can all find out what the hello is going on!).

[JG111580]

Here is a theory that I stated in a previous post as to how Kishimoto might address the Hinata situation.

D. Hinata may become an ally to the NaruSaku fandom. Afterall, who has observed Naruto more closely than her. She has to know how he feels for Sakura. She also must know that if Sakura has grown to love him in return, that he could be truely happy. She said it herself, she was being selfish during her confession. What could be more selfless and character building than somehow encouraging NaruSaku.

While Naruto cares for Hinata, I don't believe that he has had enough interaction with her to think, "I might really be in love with her!" In Sai's flash back Naruto expresses that he still has deep emotions for Sakura that he does not feel that he can freely express. The scenario that I give above might result from the current NaruSaku conversation. If he is depressed and confused by Sakura's statements and somehow meets Hinata again, she might pick up on that and take their conversation in this direction.

Just a thought, what do you think?

[pinkheartsyellowstars]

While Naruto cares for Hinata, I don't believe that he has had enough interaction with her to think, "I might really be in love with her!" In Sai's flash back Naruto expresses that he still has deep emotions for Sakura that he does not feel that he can freely express. The scenario that I give above might result from the current NaruSaku conversation. If he is depressed and confused by Sakura's statements and somehow meets Hinata again, she might pick up on that and take their conversation in this direction.

Just a thought, what do you think?

WOW at first I doubt Hinata will became a fan of NS, but since the story now flows somewhat romantic feelings, then your THEORY has a GREAT Chance to occur
NICE!

[Nefertieh]

I don't think Hinata knows Naruto that well. =/ Sure, in part one we see her stalking Naruto a lot when he was training, and... well that's really it. She doesn't talk to Naruto, and hasn't mad much significance in Part II either (unless you count the fillers I suppose?). So I don't think she knows Naruto has feelings for Sakura.

Kishimoto has had a lot of chances to make Hinata relevant. Like during the search-for-Sasuke part (before they met Tobi for the first time), Hinata was assigned with Naruto, and nothing happens before they join with everyone else again. >_> Or when Hinata confesses in the Pain arc, but in the aftemath we see Naruto and Sakura talking together. xD

And the most recent chapter has only put more drama onto Naruto and Sakura's relationship. I know a lot of people have mixed feelings about it, but how many romance stories do you see that doesn't have some sort of conflict between the pairing characters (other than, well, romance-tragedy ones?).

[catsi563]

It is entirely possible we may see Hinata before all is said and done. What it may come down to is a repeat of the POaL where Hinata says many of the same things as Naruto did. She may step aside to allow Naruto to follow his heart and encourage him to do so.

The selfish act of her confession aside ((and the confession did have to happen make no mistake)) Hinata is a pretty genuine and mostly unselfish person.

any such interaction will most likely be in about 2 maybe 3 chapters at the conclusion fo the kisame killerbee fight.

[JG111580]

Well, it's just one of many possibilities. If Kishi doesn't feel he can make it work in the story, then I can also see him leaving out any further Naruto/Hinata interaction. However, if there is going to be some sort of interaction between the two, this may be how it goes. The only piece of evidence that I have to support such a theory is the smile that she gave the NaruSaku hug in 450. There have been many different interpretations of that panel though, so I can't say that it's concrete. But don't forget that Kishi can pull out flashbacks of scenes that he intentionally did not show us at the time. The most recent examples are Naruto's addmission to Sai of his feelings for Sakura and Sakura telling the others not to say anything while she is talking to Naruto. So, it could be possible that Hinata has made other observations of Naruto that we are currently unaware of (especially in Part 2). I've never really paid any attention to the fillers, so all of the observations that I have made are based on the information that Kishi himself has given us.

I guess what I'm saying is that if Hinata does become a factor in all of this, I think that it will be a positive influence on NaruSaku. If not, then NaruSaku will continue on the well developed path that they have been on since the beginning (even with all of the tension and drama that is currently being created). Either way NaruSaku happens.

[catsi563]

These below are my thoughts to clarify Sakuras mistake in this chapter to a person on the talk naruto forums.

it may explain why she has reacted like she has.

My own thoughts --Click here to view--

i grant this is my own interpretation base don manga evidence and so is subject to change based on the manga but its still solid.

Sakura started out with a crush on Sasuke. Naruto had a crush on Sakura. this much is not in dispute.

Sakura disliked naruto and found him annoying due to his clumsy attempts to ask her out which were embarrasing her and in her mind naruto didnt understand her and was always trying to interfere with her life and liked to see her fail.

Now heres where things get a little funky. the day they became a team Naruto wanted to know why he liked Sakura. So he beats Sasuke ((signifigant moment)) and henges into him.

then as Sakura sits there and day dreams. Naruto shows that he trully understands her better than even she knows. he repeats her day dream word for word.

they talk and he learns finally why he likes her so much. Shes like him willing to do anything to be acknowledged by people especilly that special person.

they almsot kiss but narutos bad diet catches up to him and he runs off.

Now view this scene from Sakuras persepctive. she ahs a crush on Sasuke but is in despair that he will ever come around.

then SUDDENLY BOOM!! theres Sasuke in a halo glory like moment standing there and he speaks her day dream word for word. he acknowledges her and her dreams and almsot kisses her.

For Sakura this is a singular moment. a moment where she goes from a childish crush to falling in love with her dream man.

And theres the key.

Because mere moments later the real Sasuke comes along. And a fooled Sakura thinking hes ready to continue where they left off resumes their conversation. Sasuke of course has no clue what shes talking about but he plays along in order to find Naruto.

now Sakura of course still at this time doesnt understand Naruto as well as she thinks she does. So she speaks of his not having parents and how lucky he is in a fashion showing her early immaturity.

Sasuke of course coldy informs her of jsut how lucky she is to have parents and a bed time and to be grounded by someone who cares about you as he empathizes with narutos pain of lonliness.

to Sasuke this reinforces Sakura as a selfish little girl and thats all he needs to know.

for Sakura though this shakes her a bit. one moment Sasukes being kind and warm and gentle ((Naruto in disguise)) acknoiwledges her and romances her.

and the enxt hes being cold and distant.

She decides on the spot to be nicer to Naruto. tries being the opperative word. shes still young and fallible but hey. is a start in the right direction.

later on when Sasuke leaves. She confronts him and tries to stop him from leaving going as far as to confess her love for him.

but keep this in context. She is confessing to the Sasuke she met on the bench that day. she even says it herself. to which Sasuke responds No I dont remember it at all.

because he trully doesnt.

he wasnt there.

And thats the Key moment. Its a moment to me that stands out because it brings to light the feelings of Naruto and Sakura in a clear way, and establishes the basis for some conflicts to follow including this one.

Skaura is still laboring under the illusion of a kind warm sasuke who acknowledged her.

and before things are done shes going to need to confront him one last time about that bench scene.

its then and there that shes going to learn a surprising truth.

and then some fireworks are really going to fly.

Naruto on the other hand is laboring under the illusion that Sakura is still in love with sasuke and wont change ever. He needs to open up to the possibility that She can change towards him and away from Sasuke.

moreso Im beginning to wonder if Narutos words to Sakura when he returned may have a slightly deeper meaning the even i realized.

My initial reaction to his words was he was saying in his own clueless way that he thought she was still the same beautiful Sakura he liked.

this while Sakura was flirting with him and asking if shed grown up and become more womanly.

Heck even naruto isnt THAT clueless.

So im beginning to wonder if Naruto was made to proceed from that feeling of Sakura in love with Sasuke = never be in love with Naruto= she hasnt changed.

a failure of perception is whats at issue her for both sides and both sides are going to have to open their collective eyes before things can change for the better

[JG111580]

Couldn't agree more! This chapter HAD to happen to start tearing down perceptions that Naruto has taken as the truth ever since he made his POAL. A confrontation with Sauske HAS to occur to break down the final barrier in Sakura's mind and reveal that Naruto is truely the one that she loves. What's really great is that they have progressed to this point. If you think about how far Sakura has come since the beginning, and where she is now it's amazing. She cares for Naruto to the point of giving up on Sauske, pushing aside the possibility that the Sauske that she talked to on the bench might come back. This is ironic, because Naruto did the same thing with his POAL, accepting that fact that Sakura will always love Sauske and he must push aside his feelings for her sake. The playing filed has been leveled. Kishi has brought us to a point where there is a final figurative wall that seperates them. Granted, this wall is the thickest and will be the most painful and difficult to penetrate, but it's starting to come down.

[Yakura]

How lame, this chapter is so tense that I'm even "Fighting" with a NaruxHina fan that chapter 469 is the bullet that shot threw their ideas of NaruxHina.

[ciardha]

Couldn't agree more! This chapter HAD to happen to start tearing down perceptions that Naruto has taken as the truth ever since he made his POAL. A confrontation with Sauske HAS to occur to break down the final barrier in Sakura's mind and reveal that Naruto is truely the one that she loves.

No, Sakura knows Naruto is the one she loves, she says it multiple times in this chapter and that was her true feelings. The self-deception is only that she knows she has to have no feelings for Sasuke anymore, not even the team mate bond that is still there, she believes she's cut that off.

Team mate bonds are like family bonds though, some residual is going to remain even in the face of one turning evil- One only has to look at the Sanin: Jiraiya was like Naruto he believed Orochimaru was redeemable and chased after him for a while trying to get through to someone who had no interest in being redeemed. Orochimaru was already much darker a person than Sasuke when he betrayed the village though, and finally Jiraiya gave up and followed Orochimaru around to spy on what he had planned. Tsunade says she never liked or trusted Orochimaru, but I think that was a bit of a revision of her history. No, she was never attracted to him in any way that much is obvious, but when they were all young, before Orochimaru chose the path of darkness, there was a bond between all the Sanin. Like Sakura, Tsunade knew she had to cut off the team mate bond with Orochimaru before Jiraiya did.

For Orochimaru he seems to have felt the most lasting bond to Tsunade, as twisted as he was, you see when when the battle starts between the Sanin Orochimaru expresses shock of betrayal that she was going to kill rather than heal him, and even during the battle he says with clearly honest feelings that Tsunade was the one person he never wanted to kill. He also gives her a warning about the danger Naruto will pose as the Kyuubi takes more control. And despite his threat to Tsunade when she makes the decision to become Hokage, he never made another overtly destructive act on Konoha, and in fact even acts to stop Sasuke from attempting to kill Naruto and Sakura. Sasuke scoffs at Orochimaru's reason as a weak excuse.

And when Tsunade and Jiraiya got the news of Orochimaru's death, despite knowing what an evil twisted man he had become, they both looked sad. Even for them a fragment of their team mate bond remained.

Naruto and Sakura both need to talk with Tsunade about Sasuke. She has a perspective they both should hear about a team mate that goes bad.



The next confrontation with Sasuke will be what finally gives Naruto the clue-by-four that he needs- he is deluding himself that Sakura is "still exactly the same"- thus still crushing on Sasuke. He has been pretending he doesn't see the obvious overtures she's been making throughout part 2, including conveniently forgetting the actions he did notice at the time they happened.

[Nee-sama]

Catsi I know we've gone down this road before but when Sakura was confessing to Sasuke she asked if he remembered when he taught her about lonliness, she doesn't actually mention anything about what happened with henge-Naruto which is why I can't fully agree with your theory about the bench scene coming up again. Even if they never bring that event up again they can still move past it because Naruto just has to do something else that would make her believe it's a "fairy-tale situation." Which he's perfectly capable of if he would just stop letting Sasuke kitten-block him.

[Hopestar]

Good grief you people need to relax...

It's obvious Sakura is more of a woman of action than words. Perhaps she should've kiss him first then say "i love you" then slowly move towards the Sasuke confrontation. Naruto does love her but the way she said it seems off, then again Naruto proven to be a dumbass (especially when it comes to her feelings about him). Have you forgot whenever Sakura is concern about him only he'll always reject and move on to another subject.

This isn't just about her insecurities but also Naruto's. Yes, I admit they should have went somewhere private, but I guess Kishi figure he should NS over with before they face Sasuke.

I say they both need to move from Sasuke. Naruto heard from Madara, Itachi, Orochimaru, & Jiraiya about Sasuke's dark path and it was his choice alone. He's only getting piss because its the woman he loves who going to repeat (but in worse & emotional context) of what's he's been told.

Sorry my friends but Naruto is just or more selfish than Sakura right now. Neither of them have ever thought of Sasuke's wants. Also Naruto refuse to accept Sasuke of who he is as of today while Sakura has.

[ciardha]

(especially when it comes to her feelings about him). Have you forgot whenever Sakura is concern about him only he'll always reject and move on to another subject.

Excellent point, the antinsers used this very thing to say Naruto no longer loves Sakura. That wasn't true, but we finally see for sure right here in this chapter why he does it. He does it because it challenges his self-denial about how Sakura's feelings have changed toward being in love with him- as I said earlier he's developed a kind of martyr's complex when it comes to his feelings for Sakura. When she makes overt actions expressing her love to him it breaks down that complex momentarily but then his denial wall trigger clicks in and he either rejects or in the case of 343 and 450 quickly "forgets" it. His wall is getting bigger and more rigid too as his self-deception about Sasuke gets more desperate. That was clear from his reaction to Sakura embracing him romantically in front of the whole village compared to her flirtatious offer to feed him in 343. In 343 she broke through his self-deception without even touching him, in 450 she embraced him romantically in front of everybody and he frantically threw up his wall standing there frozen. It took her declaration of love to momentarily break down that wall in 469.

Sai is right about the POAL being the core of Naruto's misery but the source isn't Sakura at all. Sakura tried to get him to drop the promise (and she hadn't made it a promise but a request to start with for that matter) in the hospital at the end of part 1. Again she's tried to get him to let go of it, blaming herself for his pain. The source is Naruto himself, he has attached more and more conditions in his mind and it's become hopelessly wrapped up in his self-denials about Sakura's change into loving him, and his increasingly rigid wall of self-denial about Sasuke.

Sakura can't break through his wall of self-denial about her feelings anymore. It looks like others are going to have to give him the clue-by-fours he needs to tear down those walls and to break the martyr's complex he's nursing when it comes to his love for Sakura.

[Miss Soupy]

@catsi

I like the whole bench scene idea that was the pivotal point for Naruto -> Sakura AND Sakura -> Sasuke. My only problem with it is that I can't recall any moments where Sakura thought about that scene (which would signify it was a turning point for her romantic thoughts about Sasuke). Do you know if there were any?

[Hopestar]

Catsi, that was Ch. 3 when Naruto henge to be Sasuke when Sakura told him those things. Of course that won't to mind since she thinks that was Sasuke not Naruto.

I believe Sakura will go off rather in a crying or violent manner.

Then again we know Naruto answer better when she use her fist than words