3336 replies to this topic

[Charger76]

That makes sense. I thought it was a little too soon for another movie

[James S Cassidy]

The Last Naruto the Movie -is- the last movie about Naruto.

It's also about the Last descendant of the Sage of Six Path's brother.

 

It's not the last movie, and there's nothing wrong with the title.

Really? Is that why the Boruto movie was hardly about Boruto as a character at all and was more about Naruto's and Sasuke's bromance, Naruto's powers, and the villains who wanted to steal Naruto's powers?

You know what, the Naruto the Last movie is still a misnomer either way because the Naruto the Last movie WAS NOT ABOUT NARUTO AT ALL. It was about Hinata and her stupid scarf. There was NOTHING in the movie that focused on Naruto, or Naruto's life, or Naruto's trials. If anything, he was the trophy that Hinata had to win. If it was, then the movie should have been about Naruto and how he got with Sakura. Not Hinata and her scarf and "Godlike Byakugan" or whatever it is called

If the movie was supposed to be about Naruto then shouldn;t it have shown how Naruto succeeded in achieving his goals, getting the girl, and becoming a legend?

No, you see, what WOULD have been a fitting title for the movie would be "Hinata the First Retcon." Even though many more retcons existed before the movie came out, THIS was the retcon that drove all the others into motion. Like they said, this movie was put in production two years before the ending...and if the entire point of the ending was to lead UP TO this movie, then it is not Naruto the Last.....but rather "Hinata the First."

Even the original series isn't even about Naruto at this point. It was about Sasuke. Okay, MAYBE part 1, but Naruto Shippuden should have been renamed "Sasuke Shippuden" seeing how most of the focus was about him and how he achieved.....something.

You know....rethinking it again...what is the story of Naruto about? I mean, the obvious answer should have been "Naruto the character," but then nothing happened for Naruto as a character. We get maybe a short growth of him from part 1 to part 2, but then all that focus went straight to Sasuke is how he needed closure with his brother. We have been saying this often, but Naruto was more about Sasuke and the story revovled more around him. After Sasuke's story came to a close....coughnotreallycough.....then Hinata took the spot light.

Naruto is so far the only story where the MC gets back seated to the whims of a side character that had no involvement outside of  "background noise"
Bleach didn't do it
DB didn't do it.
Fruits Basket didn't do it.
Future Diary, Trigun, Soul Eater, High School DxD,....not a single one I can think of.

Please, can anyone give me an anime series where the main character gets pushed to being the side character while the side character became the heroine? Just any other example.

Imagine if Dragonball went from being about Goku to being about Yamcha

 

If Kishimoto kept editing things in Road to Ninja, I'm not surprised, it'd match up the frustration of the writers for the Last as interviews showed that Kishimoto was constantly wanting things altered. But this is his baby, and such a reaction is definitely normal. Frankly, I'm surprised with Kishimoto's stance on romance that the Last was a movie in such a way that it was.

 

Okay, so I heard this label that the Last is a Hinata movie a lot. First of all Kishimoto picked the pairing, not SP. I will always defend SP from unfounded claims such as "writing a love letter", as there is no evidence, and it's frankly immature to actively do worse work (Which goes through quality checks, who would not let worse work go through), on a character, and great work on another. Personally, it could have been any girl, and the movie would have had similar love put into it.

 

Objectively/Creative Structurally in terms of the Plot movement, it is equally a Hinata movie as it is a Naruto movie.

 

Basically (I love creative analysis, so bear with me here), the Last is both a Hero's story and a Heroine's story. Heroine stories quite often have a wedding that is necessary to make things better (Get closer to save the world), a rejection, and a gaining of power over life and death (Basically the counter of a Chakra drain). It's actually pretty neat to run both the Hero's and Heroine's journey together. A few other Naruto movies do similar, though the Heroine's journey is usually less interesting than the heroes in all Naruto movies as they end up being some sort of Damsel more than a heroine.

 

And honestly, there was plenty of evidence....the problem is....people like you don't accept that evidence or even read it. Heck, people have been pointing out the inconsistency for years now and yet you still say that it is not the case.

As for your last paragraph....you basically just said that Naruto....a shonen manga.....was turned in a Shojo manga....about romance with the wedding bieng the victoy lap....BUT DON'T PRO ENDERS SAY THAT THIS IS NOT A ROMANCE MANGA to excuse why NH has so very few scenes, needed massive retcons, and the entire movie revolved around love affairs?

All excuses....no reasons.

What was Naruto's goals again?
 

Edited by James S Cassidy, 08 July 2017 - 04:42 AM.

[VanitasDS76491]

Really? Is that why the Boruto movie was hardly about Boruto as a character at all and was more about Naruto's and Sasuke's bromance, Naruto's powers, and the villains who wanted to steal Naruto's powers?
You know what, the Naruto the Last movie is still a misnomer either way because the Naruto the Last movie WAS NOT ABOUT NARUTO AT ALL. It was about Hinata and her stupid scarf. There was NOTHING in the movie that focused on Naruto, or Naruto's life, or Naruto's trials. If anything, he was the trophy that Hinata had to win. If it was, then the movie should have been about Naruto and how he got with Sakura. Not Hinata and her scarf and "Godlike Byakugan" or whatever it is called
If the movie was supposed to be about Naruto then shouldn;t it have shown how Naruto succeeded in achieving his goals, getting the girl, and becoming a legend?
No, you see, what WOULD have been a fitting title for the movie would be "Hinata the First Retcon." Even though many more retcons existed before the movie came out, THIS was the retcon that drove all the others into motion. Like they said, this movie was put in production two years before the ending...and if the entire point of the ending was to lead UP TO this movie, then it is not Naruto the Last.....but rather "Hinata the First."
Even the original series isn't even about Naruto at this point. It was about Sasuke. Okay, MAYBE part 1, but Naruto Shippuden should have been renamed "Sasuke Shippuden" seeing how most of the focus was about him and how he achieved.....something.
You know....rethinking it again...what is the story of Naruto about? I mean, the obvious answer should have been "Naruto the character," but then nothing happened for Naruto as a character. We get maybe a short growth of him from part 1 to part 2, but then all that focus went straight to Sasuke is how he needed closure with his brother. We have been saying this often, but Naruto was more about Sasuke and the story revovled more around him. After Sasuke's story came to a close....coughnotreallycough.....then Hinata took the spot light.
Naruto is so far the only story where the MC gets back seated to the whims of a side character that had no involvement outside of  "background noise"
Bleach didn't do it
DB didn't do it.
Fruits Basket didn't do it.
Future Diary, Trigun, Soul Eater, High School DxD,....not a single one I can think of.
Please, can anyone give me an anime series where the main character gets pushed to being the side character while the side character became the heroine? Just any other example.
Imagine if Dragonball went from being about Goku to being about Yamcha
 

 

And honestly, there was plenty of evidence....the problem is....people like you don't accept that evidence or even read it. Heck, people have been pointing out the inconsistency for years now and yet you still say that it is not the case.
As for your last paragraph....you basically just said that Naruto....a shonen manga.....was turned in a Shojo manga....about romance with the wedding bieng the victoy lap....BUT DON'T PRO ENDERS SAY THAT THIS IS NOT A ROMANCE MANGA to excuse why NH has so very few scenes, needed massive retcons, and the entire movie revolved around love affairs?
All excuses....no reasons.
What was Naruto's goals again?

Actually James sasuke started taking center in the chunin exams and Naruto slowly got pushed aside. That's were everything start to go down hill and got worse with the first naruto vs sasuke fight that was nothing but redoing the Uchiha massacre and Naruto getting his ass kicked after briefly getting the upper hand. Naruto vs neji was a better. The only time if this counts is vegeta pushing goku but vegeta is a more interesting character. I mean hiei is a side main character and he's the best out of the four main team.

[Yyubie]

http://bubblegalaxyl...-not-ooc-shutup

 

Glad someone out there still have "Sanity" and "Brain Function".

[Gravenimage]

http://bubblegalaxyl...-not-ooc-shutup

 

Glad someone out there still have "Sanity" and "Brain Function".

 

One of the many contradictions and screw up from Kishimoto.

[VanitasDS76491]

One of the many contradictions and screw up from Kishimoto.

Yes that is right so that scene should never happened cause kurama would have broken him out of it. Tokai's comic is doing that scene better.

[BlueStarSaber]

I disagree, specifically that it was not a Genjutsu in the normal sense for one (Sakura had to convince herself it was not real to break out of it), and two, that Kurama+Naruto wasn't the same as Bee+Eight Tails.

 

Maybe a bit more clarity to make this clear to everyone could have been done, sure, I'll agree with that, or that to get free, regardless of what is inside of you, you have to know it is not real (Or Kurama entered his own genjutsu).

 

Finally, Bee was speaking with a line of insight, but it may have only been applicable to himself and his host. I'm not sure it's a line we can take as true for all, as we haven't seen it happen with anyone but himself.

UH yeah they are the same since they get along Kurama will break any genjutsu used on Naruto. 

Since when has there ever been a genjustu that work separately on a Jinjuriki and a tailed beast.

The tumblr post just showed Kurama breaking a genjustu the shin clone used on Naruto.

 

[rocci]

 
You might be right then.
 
Then I would chalk this up as "Needs more explanation". This definitely comes off as different and they could have made that more clearer. I'm not against Kurama not being able to stop this one personally, and it's not hard to weave a written reason for it that's satisfactory.

Well, that's a bad writing.

[James S Cassidy]

Actually, there are some (American series, at least), where side characters/minor characters become major characters. This isn't a first in creative story-telling.

You say this and yet, you have given no example of any other manga doing it. Examples please or step down.

You bring up Rocky, but here is the thing....Rocky and Adrian were dating throughout the movie and they had development. He didn't just randomly fall in love with Adrian or another girl at the end. Naruto and Hinata did not have development at all. They had no connection whatsoever. I don't remember Rocky instantly falling in love with someone else in the story and Adrian telling him "You only loved me because of the rivalry with Creed."

In fact, the Rocky story plays more like how Naruto and Sakura were. Naruto wants to achieve something, gets depressed that he can't do it, Sakura perks him up. That means, in the end Naruto should have saved Sasuke and Sakura comes running up to him and proclaiming their love.

Plus, Rocky is described as a sports drama....not an "action film." Try applying this logic to say "First Blood."

Remember, the EXCUSE for lack of NH development was that Naruto is NOT a romance manga. That is what all pro-enders say. You're trying to tell me that Shonen can have romance in it...which is true...just take a look at Ruroni Kenshin, but all your point proved was that there is no excuse why Kishimoto didn't add more development before if it was all such a "planned pairing." You might say that NH had plenty of development in the manga, but then why need the movie at all?

He even admitted that he didn't have enough NH development which was the whole point of Naruto the Last. This is why nothing that happens in Naruto the Last ever happens any where else in the manga.

No matter how you look at it, nothing makes sense and you are left with two choices.

1. NaruHina was shoe horned in, the story was retconned, and Kishimoto is lying about everything to try and save face, but to no avail.
or
2. Kishimoto did plan all this and he is just a really horrible writer who doesn't deserve any of the credit he is getting and people need to stop reading his stuff because he makes Twilight look like Romeo and Juliet.

I do love though how you consider the movie Naruto the Last as a separate entity to the manga story. It is supposed to be a canon story that bridges the gap between 699 and 700. That was the entire premise of it.

I treat the Naruto the Last movie as part of the whole story....not as a separate movie.

 

My concern with the analysis I'm countering is sometimes that it is fed from bitterness. The ending sucked, romance wise, IMO, but we can't let it color our analysis. If we're going to discuss Naruto, we should remain fair, though bias is inevitable.

I still kind of find it funny how every time people criticize this series people always try to counter out with "You're biased, you're bitter" and "we need to be fair."

Which people have been doing since the war arc happened. It is more than just the ending people had a problem with. There are other things as well going from:
- Naruto and Sasuke's lack of actual dynamic to warrant them being friends. Goku and Vegeta have more in common.

- Naruto's ability to literally talk every villain out of being evil without actual any concrete evidence.
- Major asspulls from Sasuke's Great Snake Escape, Itachi's magical eye counter to Kabuto, Madara Uchiha, and even so many more examples that mostly exist from the the War arc.
- The massive retcon of several facts and the deletion of other details. Anyone remember what happened in Chapter 3 of this manga? Apparently not, especially not the characters.
- The lack of definitive answers to most if not all the major problems that occurred in the story from "How was world peace achieved? What happened to the several civil wars? What happened to most of the tailed beast?"
-What was the point of Team Taka and all their scenes if they lead to nothing anyway?

 

Countless stuff that are far too big of list. The ending was just the icing on the cake.

How many scenes in this manga could have been cut out entirely because of how the story ended?

Bias is obviously inevitable especially when the ONLY reason why some like this story is because NH got to be canon. Don't think it just happens one way.

Naruto as a story has some major problems with it that need to be addressed with some that could have easily been avoided if they didn't pander the the fan service and shipping kittenry.

Heck, do you know how many problems would have been solved if he just made Naruto and Sakura canon and Sasuke and Karin canon? The Naruto the Last movie could have been used to show Team 7 reuniting or even NS and SK doing a badass scene together instead of wasting it on Hinata and her scarf-kun.

And maybe, just maybe Hinata could have been more than just kittens with a love obsession.

The only thing Naruto will ever be remembered for....is the shipping kittenry. Ask any pro-ender why the Naruto ending is amazing and I promise you...they will say NH wedding. That's it. Meanwhile, Goku is known for overcoming the impossible, Kenshin is known as being the awesome samurai, and Saitama is known for being the ultimate hero.

To bring the Rocky example again, the romance in that story was a side story. In Naruto, they made it the main focus. Naruto HAD to be with Hinata. No "ifs," "ands," or "buts"

 

The Naruto managa is about Naruto's gradual journey to become hokage, not politically, but more so in the recognition of his peers and the rest of the world. It is also about the rescue of Sasuke from himself. It is also about saving the world, as all hero stories do.

Which none of these Naruto ever did himself.

1. Naruto never achieved peace. If anything Obito and Kakashi did that and Naruto's focus was more on Sasuke.

2. Naruto wanted to become Hokage because he originally wanted recognition. Not because he wanted to be a good leader. Which he isn't and only became Hokage after Kakashi basically gave it to him. Now all he does is sit in his office and do paperwork all day and bored out of his mind drinking alcohol and treating his family like dirt.

3. Naruto wanted to bring Sasuke back to the village and he specifically says this several times only except Sasuke never ever comes back save for just talking to Naruto.

4. Naruto said specifically that he was in love with Sakura and that he wanted to be with her....never achieved that either and got stuck with Children of the Corn balloon kittens because "Sakura was taken."

The ONLY thing Naruto achieved was the village finally recognized him, but in hindsight he got recognition long before that with Sakura, Iruka, Kakashi, and so many more people. The only time we see him being truly hated was in a flashback.

Everything else, Naruto settled for sloppy seconds.

That would be like if Superman came to Earth to change it and wanted to marry Lois Lane only for Batman to come in, save the world, marry Lois Lane, and then Superman goes on to marry Lana Lang because Brainiac came down and told him he is in love with her.
 

Actually James sasuke started taking center in the chunin exams and Naruto slowly got pushed aside. That's were everything start to go down hill and got worse with the first naruto vs sasuke fight that was nothing but redoing the Uchiha massacre and Naruto getting his ass kicked after briefly getting the upper hand. Naruto vs neji was a better. The only time if this counts is vegeta pushing goku but vegeta is a more interesting character. I mean hiei is a side main character and he's the best out of the four main team.

Okay, well....then why is this series called "Naruto?" Maybe the series should have been called "Sasuke."

The whole story focuses around him and his trials, he gets the girl in the end, and his best friend is stuck with whatever is left.

Great story.....

 

Edited by James S Cassidy, 10 July 2017 - 06:39 PM.

[Konoha'sCrimsonFox]

Why does it sound like Dbx is back some how?

[Gravenimage]

NH stil isn't shoe horned in?

 

I'm going to state this: There is relationship development, enough so, that many, if not most  professional reviewers could make the guess that NH had credibility to be predicted to be happening in the end. The Movie shows the exact love story, as the Manga did not show that. That is why (One of many I reckon) of why the movie was made, to show the love story, as it is an important part of Naruto's life.

 

If we educated creative writers can form that -can- be a possible end (Guesses can be wrong, but it wouldn't come out of nowhere), then why can't you? Granted, NS was also a guessable end, particularly at the beginning of Shippuden and  -at least- until the last hundred chapters, where it was sadly detoriated away and it seemed to be going to where it ultimately went.

 

I do notice I misclassified Rocky, Sports Drama would be the correct genre, but the point remains the same.

 

As for this: 1: Retcon, or 2: Bad Writing, it's neither.

 

It's C: Kishimoto planned all of this, and it was predictable towards the end. While readers can agree that a visualization of the journey from friends to lovers would be appreciated, there is enough relationship progress that such a jump can be understood and predicted, the Movie gives life and the story to that prediction.

 

If we're talking High Art Literature here, Naruto, Harry Potter, and a lot of "popular" series are honestly, bad writing. But I'm talking bad as in, far better than what most are capable of, but breaking general good writing rules. But these high rules, and knowing when to break them, are what makes Literature a different subsection of writing entirely. But we're not talking High Art Literature, and we need to give credit where credit is due. If this is horrible writing, it is certainly due credit for being compelling enough to get you from chapter 1 to 700, a trait MOST stories -struggle- with keeping a reader past page one.

 

We'll have to agree to disagree on the quality of the writing, though you should acknowledge however, that Naruto is successful and popular, despite the bittersweetness and mixed reactions the ending gave to the world, and we should give credit to the strong qualities that made it so, while yes, criticizing aspects that made some parts not as good or mixed in reviews.

 

P.S.: I am not DBX. I also want to reiterate that my discussion is in no mean trying to change anyone's mind, but bring thoughtful information and facts forward to help contribute to the overall topic.

 

I'm starting to wonder if you read the same manga we did. And you call yourself" Analyzer"??? I'll leave it at that. I'm sorry but I will NEVER agreed with anyone that says NH was planned from the start because that is the biggest piece of BS I have ever heard in my entire life. Read the kitten manga from the first chapter before Kishimoto took a dump on it by doing the switcharoo with the pairing in the last moment because his editors, studio Pierot and the crazy NH fandom demanded him to make NH simply because it's more popular (which is not). Kishi lacks balls because he couldn't tell his editors or Pierot to "kitten off this is my manga, my story I will make the pairing I've been planning since the beginning for fifteen years. I'm not hooking Naruto with some girl he hardly knows I have shown him DOZENS of times that he only loves Sakura". But he never did that he's only good for taking orders and changing things compare him to Oda the author of One Piece who doesn't take kitten from anyone. He follows his story based on his ideas, if he doesn't like what his editors suggest him he will simply tell them" I don't want that or I don't like that" unlike Kishimoto who agreed on everything they tell him to do.

Edited by Gravenimage, 10 July 2017 - 07:10 PM.

[James S Cassidy]

NH stil isn't shoe horned in?

I am going to state this: EVERYTHING I AM SAYING IS BASED OFF KISHIMOTO AS A WRITER, HIS OWN INTERVIEWS AND WORDS, AND SEVERAL OTHER SOURCES AND PRATICAL LOGIC THAT COMES WHEN WRITING A STORY.

What you are giving in not answers, but rather what you THINK is the answer and trying to get me to concede to such a thing. The problem is is what you are proclaiming and what Kishimoto has been claiming are not the same thing. All you are doing is giving me YOUR interpretation and not what the fact actually is.

Like I said, look at all of Kishimoto's interviews again and you will notice varying degrees of answers of the same exact question:
When asked when NH was planned his answer ranged from "Somewhere around the war arc" to  "When the movie was created" to "from the beginning." How can a man be so inconsistent with his own story that when a fan asks him a question about a simple subject he doesn't know how to properly answer it?

You also forget the simple fact that if it was all planned from the beginning....why didn't he write the story better or actually write the story to support it? He could have written Hinata to join Team 7. He could have had Naruto have a crush on her since the beginning. He could have done so many things better that even a 4-year-old child can write. It is simple common sense.

And trust me, this is all beyond human error or simple mix-up like "I forgot." A simple human mistake would be like "I forgot to draw Naruto with his whiskers" or "Forgetting a small little detail that is insignificant, but not really essential to the story." That is the bottom line and there is no logic or excuse for it. I have heard it all. So many other pro-enders have used the very logic you are using now and they haven;t convinced any one of us of seeing it there way.

The least Kishimoto can do is say "Yes, I retconned the story to suit a pairing choice." That's it. That's all he has to admit, but he instead...he keeps lying and changing his account of stories, and keeps feeding false facts. Seriously, read every single interview he has ever done and see how unreliable he is for admitting the truth. Why do you think they keep asking him the same questions? Because people are confused and don;t know what the hell happened.

Kishimoto is not some writing genius who has gone above our understanding of writing ethics. He is just a man who was writing a sub-par story with a few good ideas and let it all be ruined due to fan service.

Kishimoto is the ultimate example of "If you can't dazzle them with brains, baffle them with kitten" and that is exactly what he did. He made the Naruto story so confusing that he doesn't have to explain anything. He has people like you that try to break it down and give this intellectual response from something that he had no idea or clue what he was doing.

And frankly, I am getting sick and tired of people telling me or any one of us Anti-enders that we don't care about the series or that we are too stupid to understand any of it.

 

What I don't understand is if I read the manga one way, and the ending happened as it did, even though it was not the pairing I did not want, how is my reading wrong, from yours, where the outcome was not as you thought it was?

I don't know, How can Junko, Naruto's VA, Kishimoto's own wife, several fans, and according to Kishimoto half of Studio Perriot read the same story and talk about how they are excited for Naruto and Sakura getting together....only to get told that THEY read it wrong?

How can so much development be thrown out the window all for the sake of a pairing? Team Taka? Karin and her love Sasuke? Naruto's love for Sakura? Sai telling Sakura that even HE can tell that Naruto was in love with Sakura?

What was the point of even most of the kitten that happened in the story if it all just comes full circle anyway?

How can Naruto, as a character, tell people he hates people who lie to themselves and to everyone...and yet HE is the one who is the deceiving?

Again, LOOK AT THIS:


What was the whole point of all of this if it means nothing? There is NO EXCUSE. I am sorry, but you just can't do THAT and then say "Well, that was nothing, Forget that." Bull-!@#$-crap.

In every other story whenever another character makes this kind of realization to another...it is usually meant to opens one eyes to a truth they are missing.
It happened in Ruroni Kenshin and that couple got together.
It happened in Love Hina and that couple got together.

It happened in so many other stories and so many other examples of scenes very much like this one that lead to the overcoming of self-doubt and true love begins.

Sai didn't go to Hinata and say this. Minato didn't comment how Hinata looks like Kushina.

All this is proof that Kishimoto is a bad liar and this excuse of a "red herring" or "leading people on" is what makes Kishimoto a horrible writer and an even worse human being. He needs to quit from writing all together and pack up his desk and never draw again.

Do you understand now?
The problem is the ending, but the bigger problem is what the ending did for the rest of the story. It not only abandoned several key points in the story, but also made every single development, point, and purpose null-in void.

Naruto throughout the whole story: "I got to save my friend and bring him back."
Now that Sasuke is saved: "Sas-who? All I can think about Hinata."
Naruto Gaiden: "Hina-who? I got to go with my boyfriend Sasuke even though I am supposedly super busy and can't drop it all to be with my kids, but can easily drop it all for mu boyfriend."

I have seen fanfiction much better written and it didn;t have to butcher several characters just to do so.

Heck,
Looking at Naruto the Last, why didn't Sasuke help with that? There is no reason why he didn't team up with Naruto. It was a global threat and Sasuke's help would have mattered. What better to do than use the two most strongest ninja to solve the problem...and it is not like Sasuke wasn't available. You know why? Because everyone knew that if Sasuke helped and was actually there....Hinata wouldn't have been given the time of day.

They had to write Sasuke and Sakura out of the picture because they wanted Naruto to focus on Hinata. Even after she confessed to him, he had no intention of giving her the time of day.

I am sorry, but save your logic.


 

[Illnevergiveup3]

lol, how anyone can STILL believe this ^^^ guy is a legit NS fan baffles my mind. It's clearer than Sonic is blue that we didn't read the Manga wrong. Naruto is in love with Sakura-Chan, he's been in love with her since day one,  that's who he wanted to be with since day one. NaruSaku was the intended pairing since Chapter 1. For anyone to say that NH was intended from the beginning is beyond laughable. 

 

I'm STILL wondering how such a clear scene such as the one above could be read wrong? The scene is clear, Even someone as emotionally inept as Sai can see how much Naruto loves Sakura-Chan. That scene can't possibly be interpreted into something else. 

Edited by Illnevergiveup3, 10 July 2017 - 08:33 PM.

[James S Cassidy]

lol, how anyone can STILL believe this ^^^ guy is a legit NS fan baffles my mind. It's clearer than Sonic is blue that we didn't read the Manga wrong. Naruto is in love with Sakura-Chan, he's been in love with her since day one,  that's who he wanted to be with since day one. NaruSaku was the intended pairing since Chapter 1. For anyone to say that NH was intended from the beginning is beyond laughable. 

 

I'm STILL wondering how such a clear scene such as the one above could be read wrong? The scene is clear, Even someone as emotionally inept as Sai can see how much Naruto loves Sakura-Chan. That scene can't possibly be interpreted into something else. 

Even more still when I have taken writing classes in collage and want to be a successful author some day and yet still get told I have no idea what I am talking about.

Whatever. I am done with it. Rather talk to my cat

Still the best comic that describes Naruto Shippuden.
http://sractheninja....-Lives-63271750

And for those who don't know what asspulls are
http://tvtropes.org/...hp/Main/Asspull

[TouKen4Life3g]

It's basically Kishi abandoned the more in-line for canon pairing and resume the one that has lesser development and tried to justify or rather have someone else to do it in a movie. The movie felt very solo as in no relation to any product.

[Derock]

It's basically Kishi abandoned the more in-line for canon pairing and resume the one that has lesser development and tried to justify or rather have someone else to do it in a movie. The movie felt very solo as in no relation to any product.

 

Didn't I recall in an interview they hired this screenplay writer who was doing the theme of love for the movie but then the person admitted he/she did NOT read the source material?

[TouKen4Life3g]

 
Didn't I recall in an interview they hired this screenplay writer who was doing the theme of love for the movie but then the person admitted he/she did NOT read the source material?

I remember that interview. It was something like you don't need to know the material or something like that.

[Derock]

I remember that interview. It was something like you don't need to know the material or something like that.

 

And you see why! For a franchise such as Naruto, you'll need to do research, the biggest keyword and the main ingredient. Obviously, this telling me they hired the person so they can have their way of bringing in their favoritsm and bias of Hinata for marketing and money. (Masashi should've did something at the time to stop them when the final script was drafted but chickened out, and I'm betting that they told him the movie would make huge revenue, since he did admit in interviews he goes after the money, unlike his twin brother. He should've notice something was up and put his foot down on SP and his editors -they're at fault too, who in their right mind persuade him that people love Hinata based on YouTube videos from silly/radical fans from the West?- to pressure them more than he did the Road to Ninja revisions. Hell, he should've pressured them to the point to say to start over. But then again, it would pissed off the higher ups and they won't listen unless money is involved.)

[James S Cassidy]

 

Didn't I recall in an interview they hired this screenplay writer who was doing the theme of love for the movie but then the person admitted he/she did NOT read the source material?

Wasn't that in that booklet of the directors of the film? The one they passed out at the premiere where they talked about how they revolved the whole movie around this NaruHina fantasy. I have it somewhere.

Edited by James S Cassidy, 11 July 2017 - 12:11 AM.

[VanitasDS76491]

You say this and yet, you have given no example of any other manga doing it. Examples please or step down.
You bring up Rocky, but here is the thing....Rocky and Adrian were dating throughout the movie and they had development. He didn't just randomly fall in love with Adrian or another girl at the end. Naruto and Hinata did not have development at all. They had no connection whatsoever. I don't remember Rocky instantly falling in love with someone else in the story and Adrian telling him "You only loved me because of the rivalry with Creed."
In fact, the Rocky story plays more like how Naruto and Sakura were. Naruto wants to achieve something, gets depressed that he can't do it, Sakura perks him up. That means, in the end Naruto should have saved Sasuke and Sakura comes running up to him and proclaiming their love.
Plus, Rocky is described as a sports drama....not an "action film." Try applying this logic to say "First Blood."
Remember, the EXCUSE for lack of NH development was that Naruto is NOT a romance manga. That is what all pro-enders say. You're trying to tell me that Shonen can have romance in it...which is true...just take a look at Ruroni Kenshin, but all your point proved was that there is no excuse why Kishimoto didn't add more development before if it was all such a "planned pairing." You might say that NH had plenty of development in the manga, but then why need the movie at all?
He even admitted that he didn't have enough NH development which was the whole point of Naruto the Last. This is why nothing that happens in Naruto the Last ever happens any where else in the manga.
No matter how you look at it, nothing makes sense and you are left with two choices.
1. NaruHina was shoe horned in, the story was retconned, and Kishimoto is lying about everything to try and save face, but to no avail.
or
2. Kishimoto did plan all this and he is just a really horrible writer who doesn't deserve any of the credit he is getting and people need to stop reading his stuff because he makes Twilight look like Romeo and Juliet.
I do love though how you consider the movie Naruto the Last as a separate entity to the manga story. It is supposed to be a canon story that bridges the gap between 699 and 700. That was the entire premise of it.
I treat the Naruto the Last movie as part of the whole story....not as a separate movie.
 

I still kind of find it funny how every time people criticize this series people always try to counter out with "You're biased, you're bitter" and "we need to be fair."
Which people have been doing since the war arc happened. It is more than just the ending people had a problem with. There are other things as well going from:
- Naruto and Sasuke's lack of actual dynamic to warrant them being friends. Goku and Vegeta have more in common.
- Naruto's ability to literally talk every villain out of being evil without actual any concrete evidence.
- Major asspulls from Sasuke's Great Snake Escape, Itachi's magical eye counter to Kabuto, Madara Uchiha, and even so many more examples that mostly exist from the the War arc.
- The massive retcon of several facts and the deletion of other details. Anyone remember what happened in Chapter 3 of this manga? Apparently not, especially not the characters.
- The lack of definitive answers to most if not all the major problems that occurred in the story from "How was world peace achieved? What happened to the several civil wars? What happened to most of the tailed beast?"
-What was the point of Team Taka and all their scenes if they lead to nothing anyway?
 
Countless stuff that are far too big of list. The ending was just the icing on the cake.
How many scenes in this manga could have been cut out entirely because of how the story ended?
Bias is obviously inevitable especially when the ONLY reason why some like this story is because NH got to be canon. Don't think it just happens one way.
Naruto as a story has some major problems with it that need to be addressed with some that could have easily been avoided if they didn't pander the the fan service and shipping kittenry.
Heck, do you know how many problems would have been solved if he just made Naruto and Sakura canon and Sasuke and Karin canon? The Naruto the Last movie could have been used to show Team 7 reuniting or even NS and SK doing a badass scene together instead of wasting it on Hinata and her scarf-kun.
And maybe, just maybe Hinata could have been more than just kittens with a love obsession.
The only thing Naruto will ever be remembered for....is the shipping kittenry. Ask any pro-ender why the Naruto ending is amazing and I promise you...they will say NH wedding. That's it. Meanwhile, Goku is known for overcoming the impossible, Kenshin is known as being the awesome samurai, and Saitama is known for being the ultimate hero.
To bring the Rocky example again, the romance in that story was a side story. In Naruto, they made it the main focus. Naruto HAD to be with Hinata. No "ifs," "ands," or "buts"
 

Which none of these Naruto ever did himself.
1. Naruto never achieved peace. If anything Obito and Kakashi did that and Naruto's focus was more on Sasuke.
2. Naruto wanted to become Hokage because he originally wanted recognition. Not because he wanted to be a good leader. Which he isn't and only became Hokage after Kakashi basically gave it to him. Now all he does is sit in his office and do paperwork all day and bored out of his mind drinking alcohol and treating his family like dirt.
3. Naruto wanted to bring Sasuke back to the village and he specifically says this several times only except Sasuke never ever comes back save for just talking to Naruto.
4. Naruto said specifically that he was in love with Sakura and that he wanted to be with her....never achieved that either and got stuck with Children of the Corn balloon kittens because "Sakura was taken."
The ONLY thing Naruto achieved was the village finally recognized him, but in hindsight he got recognition long before that with Sakura, Iruka, Kakashi, and so many more people. The only time we see him being truly hated was in a flashback.
Everything else, Naruto settled for sloppy seconds.
That would be like if Superman came to Earth to change it and wanted to marry Lois Lane only for Batman to come in, save the world, marry Lois Lane, and then Superman goes on to marry Lana Lang because Brainiac came down and told him he is in love with her.
 

Okay, well....then why is this series called "Naruto?" Maybe the series should have been called "Sasuke."
The whole story focuses around him and his trials, he gets the girl in the end, and his best friend is stuck with whatever is left.
Great story.....

Rocky and Adrian were great in the first four movies and we're like Naruto and Sakura.
You can't do that with first blood maybe 2 and 4 but 1.
I see what you're going with the rocky thing but Apollo was already married in the first movie as evident by rocky 2.
That sounds like a bad elseworlds story from DC with that superman example and somehow that seems like it would have happened.