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I half-agree? The way I see it terrorism means someone committing violent acts in the name of an idea slash ideology. I agree the religious terrorism and white supremacy acts are not the same type, but I think they both go under the same umbrella. Someone in 2011 went to a youth camp where I live and killed people because he hates Islam and immigrants, everyone here calls him a terrorist. It's a hate crime, but it's also terrorism. Not all recent hate-crimes in Trump's name have been terrorist attacks of course, but I'd say bombing a mosque is. That's a political statement.
But I didn't make that argument because I wanted to use the word terrorist against white people, but because swiping one group under one carpet but not another is wrong.
Terrorism is committing acts of violence to achieve a political goal. So hate groups and terrorism don't fall under the same umbrella. Hate groups commit crimes because they hate another groups. Terror organizations may preach hatred, but attack somebody in order to achieve a political end. Just because that person you were talking about is called a terrorist by many does not make him one; based on the little info you provided he committed a hate crime, not an act of terrorism. Burning a mosque to the ground is not a act of terror unless there was a political motivation behind it. The things that have happened in Trumps name are not done for a political agenda, they're done because he stirred up their hatred of another group and acted upon it.
So you're going to justify that by swiping another group under a carpet in response? What does that even begin to achieve? In any event, I never said that was your intention, I said that the way white terror is used today is an attempt to do exactly what you ended up doing. You may not have meant to use it in that capacity, but that is the colloquial use for it in today's society.
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Posted 22 February 2017 - 08:04 PM
Terrorism is committing acts of violence to achieve a political goal. So hate groups and terrorism don't fall under the same umbrella. Hate groups commit crimes because they hate another groups. Terror organizations may preach hatred, but attack somebody in order to achieve a political end. Just because that person you were talking about is called a terrorist by many does not make him one; based on the little info you provided he committed a hate crime, not an act of terrorism. Burning a mosque to the ground is not a act of terror unless there was a political motivation behind it. The things that have happened in Trumps name are not done for a political agenda, they're done because he stirred up their hatred of another group and acted upon it.
So you're going to justify that by swiping another group under a carpet in response? What does that even begin to achieve? In any event, I never said that was your intention, I said that the way white terror is used today is an attempt to do exactly what you ended up doing. You may not have meant to use it in that capacity, but that is the colloquial use for it in today's society.
ok first of all I did not swipe a group under the carpet. Did you read my first post? I asked alexander why he thinks islamic terrorism is a movement but white supremacy is not, and why he can make a religious connection to Islam where he cannot make a political one to Trump. That's all. It's a tendency I've not only seen in his attitude, but a lot in general after the election.
Secondly I mentioned something close to home because I thought people from different countries may use the word terrorism differently based on experiences culture etc. To me for example, shooting up a mosque sends a strong political message, especially in these times.
So to sum up the current situation there's been a rise of hate-crime after the president's election, especially towards the groups he's targetting and especially by people inspired by him. I don't see how they're not political.
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ok first of all I did not swipe a group under the carpet. Did you read my first post? I asked alexander why he thinks islamic terrorism is a movement but white supremacy is not, and why he can make a religious connection to Islam where he cannot make a political one to Trump. That's all. It's a tendency I've not only seen in his attitude, but a lot in general after the election.
Secondly I mentioned something close to home because I thought people from different countries may use the word terrorism differently based on experiences culture etc. To me for example, shooting up a mosque sends a strong political message, especially in these times.
The term "white terrorism" is a way to propagate the idea of the "white devil", which in turn is an attempt to state that the white population are inherently evil and racist. So that may not have been your intent, but that is what I was referring to.
That doesn't necessarily mean terrorism. If it wasn't for political gain, it isn't terrorism. Just burning the mosque isn't enough to qualify it as such.
ok first of all I did not swipe a group under the carpet. Did you read my first post? I asked alexander why he thinks islamic terrorism is a movement but white supremacy is not, and why he can make a religious connection to Islam where he cannot make a political one to Trump. That's all. It's a tendency I've not only seen in his attitude, but a lot in general after the election.
Secondly I mentioned something close to home because I thought people from different countries may use the word terrorism differently based on experiences culture etc. To me for example, shooting up a mosque sends a strong political message, especially in these times.
So to sum up the current situation there's been a rise of hate-crime after the president's election, especially towards the groups he's targetting and especially by people inspired by him. I don't see how they're not political.
Just because they support Trump, doesn't mean Trump condones and supports them. Or was his message at CNN to stop hate crimer during his elections not clear enough? Not to mention many of these so called hate crimes were hoaxes anyway.
And also, you seem to have the wrong idea Sushi. I don't actually support Trump's travel ban. Though not because of some cushy holier-then-thou moral reason. I don't support it simply because he hasn't vetted enough countries whose population could mean a threat to the american people. Making it innefective. What I defend are your ridiculous claims that Trump is doing such things out of prejudice, malice and stupidity. As if allowing people from muslim majority countries was ever a smart idea.
And Jesus, do you even pay attention? Apart from Syria, the ban is not permant. At worst, some couple hundred people would be inconvenienced at airports for a couple of months. That hardly makes Trump an evil fascist. This man actually make some really good points about the travel ban, and I mostly agree with him:
Because Sushi, if you think for a second that your "charitable" views on immigration are not doing incredible harm, let me slap you with some facts and statistics to wake you. Because terrorism is not the only reason people don't want to see individuals from those nations entering their countries.
Let me shorten this for you. Sweden stopped rating ethnical background for crimes ever since 2005 once it started to show that the overwhelming number of offenders were immigrant men. But countries that do not do this yet have similar results. Denmark sex assaults are commited in 80% by migrants. Statistically, 1 in 4 women in Sweden are expected to suffer an rape attempt, something that did not exist before their open door policies. Lethal violence increased 29% from 2014 to 2015 alone. 53% of the incarcerated population consists of people with recent immigrant background, despite migrant population porcentage being in the single digits. People mocked Trump over his comment about Sweden, but look at what happened a day later:
And a nice gem I found recently. Straight from the mouth of an immigrant that came straight from Africa. Let's hear what she has to say about the behaviour of her fellow immigrants:
In conclusion. I'm not enterly against immigration from islamic countries. This woman is proof not all of them are evil. That being said, anyone that comes from these lands should be under scrutiny when they arrive to make sure the host country is not allowing in some thug that will endanger the safety and lives of the native population. And if they segregate, if they undermine the lifestyle of their hosts, if they resort to violence for seeing cultural differences, then they absolutely deserve to be deported.
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Posted 23 February 2017 - 02:22 AM
AHK: I understand what you mean now thanks for explaining.
There are two reasons I wrote it like that. The first is that whiteness is fundamental in racism and it's been that way for 5 centuries. I'm calling out a social hierarchy, not the white devil. A lot of other terms use the word white as well, such as white feminist. - It's not to say rvery feminist who is white is a bad one, but it points out the exlusionary attitude of ex. Scarjo and T Swift. It is necessary because 'white' isn't just a person's skin color, it's a supremacy that kills. But a religion is what you make of it imo, the middle east was a democratic religion before the US trained Taliban, it was still very muslim though.
Secondly, I don't think generalizing is a dangerous thing in itself, especially when you're talking about a culture and not individuals. My problem starts when you generalize an already persecuted group because it marginalizes them even further. Basically, I prefer the sociological definition of racism rather than the one of dictionary. If you google it the first article that pops up explains all. The theory automatically exludes white people from those targeted by racism (at least racism based on their whiteness). So even if I said screw all white people, those words wouldn't have more weight than all blondes and pizzalovers suck. 'Muslims are a threat' however is a bit more than a rude opinion and it does a lot more than offend people.
Lastly I agree that terrorism is political. I actually edited the post to explain why I saw the crimes I mentioned as such just before you responded, because it said no one was looking at the thread.
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AHK: I understand what you mean now thanks for explaining.
There are two reasons I wrote it like that. The first is that whiteness is fundamental in racism and it's been that way for 5 centuries. I'm calling out a social hierarchy, not the white devil. A lot of other terms use the word white as well, such as white feminist. - It's not to say rvery feminist who is white is a bad one, but it points out the exlusionary attitude of ex. Scarjo and T Swift. It is necessary because 'white' isn't just a person's skin color, it's a supremacy that kills. But a religion is what you make of it imo, the middle east was a democratic religion before the US trained Taliban, it was still very muslim though.
Secondly, I don't think generalizing is a dangerous thing in itself, especially when you're talking about a culture and not individuals. My problem starts when you generalize an already persecuted group because it marginalizes them even further. Basically, I prefer the sociological definition of racism rather than the one of dictionary. If you google it the first article that pops up explains all. The theory automatically exludes white people from those targeted by racism (at least racism based on their whiteness). So even if I said screw all white people, those words wouldn't have more weight than all blondes and pizzalovers suck. 'Muslims are a threat' however is a bit more than a rude opinion and it does a lot more than offend people.
Lastly I agree that terrorism is political. I actually edited the post to explain why I saw the crimes I mentioned as such just before you responded, because it said no one was looking at the thread.
On your first point; the statement that being white is fundemental in racism, that is belligerently false and again ties back into that narrative of whites are simply evil. Racism is racism, and it doesn't have any color that constitutes who or what is racist. The statement that whiteness is fundamental to racism is, itself, racist. People of every color/ethnicity can be racist and can be affected by racism. To say otherwise is to completely ignore world history. Whiteness is fundamental in racism? What about the BLM Toronto leader that's on record stating that whites are subhuman? Or the people in the Middle East that are racist against white Americans? Or what about in South Africa, where the racial situation against whites is incredibly bad, and was listed to be on genocide watch? Let's also ignore how Jews have been discriminated against everywhere they have ever lived by people of all ethnicities.
Not to mention other forms of racism from one group to the next that have no whiteness involved.
Of course you would prefer it, but that doesn't make it right. Saying whites can't be victims of racism is a way for others to discredit whites and make it so that they can be racist themselves with zero repercussions. There is no sociological theory needed to define racism, racism is racism regardless of color.
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Posted 23 February 2017 - 10:05 PM
On your first point; the statement that being white is fundemental in racism, that is belligerently false and again ties back into that narrative of whites are simply evil. Racism is racism, and it doesn't have any color that constitutes who or what is racist. The statement that whiteness is fundamental to racism is, itself, racist. People of every color/ethnicity can be racist and can be affected by racism. To say otherwise is to completely ignore world history. Whiteness is fundamental in racism? What about the BLM Toronto leader that's on record stating that whites are subhuman? Or the people in the Middle East that are racist against white Americans? Or what about in South Africa, where the racial situation against whites is incredibly bad, and was listed to be on genocide watch? Let's also ignore how Jews have been discriminated against everywhere they have ever lived by people of all ethnicities.
Not to mention other forms of racism from one group to the next that have no whiteness involved.
Of course you would prefer it, but that doesn't make it right. Saying whites can't be victims of racism is a way for others to discredit whites and make it so that they can be racist themselves with zero repercussions. There is no sociological theory needed to define racism, racism is racism regardless of color.
This is getting a bit boring AHK. Did you skim-read my post or are you misunderstanding me on purpose? Because to avoid such things I said white people can't experience racism – based on their whiteness. Whether jewish people are white or not is an ongoing debate, but in the US they officially have their own ethnicity. There are other white groups though~ the Saami folk in the north are 'white', but oppressed for being indigenous ya know?
There are of course other forms of racism not to do with white supremacy, there are Ainu in Japan f.ex, and China has a lot of presecuted groups. But that's not what I'm talking about right now? Racism in the western context started with Spain &co saying "white people are people, others not so much", and it's been quite consistent with that. Thus, whiteness is fundamental in racism.
I handed you a legitimate source, but you reduced it to my "preference". The sociological definition was the default when I took history and sociology classes at a UNI. Prejudice is prejudice, but put together with power, makes racism. What you are talking about in South Africa etc. is reactionary prejudice, not racism. The BLM Toronto leader can think whites are subhumans, but it has no reflection of reality or the past. His words have no weight, at least not in Canada. When you call a black person subhuman however, it takes them back to the time they were put in zoo's for display.
This is getting a bit boring AHK. Did you skim-read my post or are you misunderstanding me on purpose? Because to avoid such things I said white people can't experience racism – based on their whiteness. Whether jewish people are white or not is an ongoing debate, but in the US they officially have their own ethnicity. There are other white groups though~ the Saami folk in the north are 'white', but oppressed for being indigenous ya know?
There are of course other forms of racism not to do with white supremacy, there are Ainu in Japan f.ex, and China has a lot of presecuted groups. But that's not what I'm talking about right now? Racism in the western context started with Spain &co saying "white people are people, others not so much", and it's been quite consistent with that. Thus, whiteness is fundamental in racism.
I handed you a legitimate source, but you reduced it to my "preference". The sociological definition was the default when I took history and sociology classes at a UNI. Prejudice is prejudice, but put together with power, makes racism. What you are talking about in South Africa etc. is reactionary prejudice, not racism. The BLM Toronto leader can think whites are subhumans, but it has no reflection of reality or the past. His words have no weight, at least not in Canada. When you call a black person subhuman however, it takes them back to the time they were put in zoo's for display.
But ethinicity is not the same as race. Jews are predomnantly white when it comes to race. However they are an ethnical group due to their shared cultural and religious customs. So, if someone ever says something prejudiced against jews, rathen then be considered racism, it would be more accurate to consider it an attack against their religion, or culture. Though this is just my opinion. Most people still seem to consider hatred against jews racially motivated, rather then ethinical.
No, whiteness is not fundamental to racism. White is just white. A skin color. It might have been like that 50 years ago or so, but not today. And whatever nonsense these marxist teachers fed you, it's still nothing but delusion and lies. Power and prejudice don't make racism. Racism is an idea. And anyone can have ideas, regardless of social position and wealth. So no, saying something racist to a black will not put them "back to the zoo". It will hurt their feelings at worst. But they are not persecuted or powerless. If someone says something racist to a black and it can be proven to the authorities, said racist will be punished for it. In fact, it's the other way around. If a racist crime is commited against a black in the USA, it will be met with instantenious blacklash from society, the media and authorities alike. But when a crime like the Chicago kidnapping happed, were four black youngs kidnapped an mentally challanged white man, and tortured him while screaming racial slurs at him, not only it took great social preassure for the authorities to consider it a hate crime, but media outlets avoided all racial motivations of the crime like fire.
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This is getting a bit boring AHK. Did you skim-read my post or are you misunderstanding me on purpose? Because to avoid such things I said white people can't experience racism – based on their whiteness. Whether jewish people are white or not is an ongoing debate, but in the US they officially have their own ethnicity. There are other white groups though~ the Saami folk in the north are 'white', but oppressed for being indigenous ya know?
There are of course other forms of racism not to do with white supremacy, there are Ainu in Japan f.ex, and China has a lot of presecuted groups. But that's not what I'm talking about right now? Racism in the western context started with Spain &co saying "white people are people, others not so much", and it's been quite consistent with that. Thus, whiteness is fundamental in racism.
I handed you a legitimate source, but you reduced it to my "preference". The sociological definition was the default when I took history and sociology classes at a UNI. Prejudice is prejudice, but put together with power, makes racism. What you are talking about in South Africa etc. is reactionary prejudice, not racism. The BLM Toronto leader can think whites are subhumans, but it has no reflection of reality or the past. His words have no weight, at least not in Canada. When you call a black person subhuman however, it takes them back to the time they were put in zoo's for display.
No, I'm not misunderstanding you. I know exactly what you said, and you're wrong for it.
You said:
"I said white people can't experience racism – based on their whiteness."
That is absolutely and utterly false.
Racism isn't something that is limited to white people in regards to being racist. Black, white, anything in between - it doesn't matter. Racism is the belief that somebody of one race is inferior to another, that is something that is attributable to any human regardless of skin color. The point about Jews was to demonstrate that: Jews have lived all over the world and encountered all different ethnic populations, and have been discriminated against by all of them, including by POC. Look at people like the Incans and Aztecs in South America, who would take over other groups, enslave them, and kill them because of their race. By the way, the Incans and Aztecs were POC. Look at the Japanese and what they did to the Chinese in WW2.
I was specifically speaking to your point about Whiteness being fundamental in racism, which was wrong. It is not an opinion and you don't need a source for it, it is World History. You are blatantly mistaking racism and systemic racism - systemic racism is what happens when racism takes root in government and is given power. And even then, you can have racism without having systemic racism. What those whites are experiencing in South Africa - where they are being killed for existing, can't own land or own majority of a businesss - that is both racism and systemic racism.
Again, I'll restate something I said earlier - I don't blame you and I'm not attacking you - this is the fault of the media for not educating people on what is racism, what is systemic racism, what terrorism is - etc. Instead, they've helped to propagate this idea of a white devil. It isn't helped by the fact that idiots like trump are running around, but even still the media has failed in this regard.
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Posted 24 February 2017 - 01:30 AM
No, I'm not misunderstanding you. I know exactly what you said, and you're wrong for it.
You said:
"I said white people can't experience racism – based on their whiteness."
That is absolutely and utterly false.
Racism isn't something that is limited to white people in regards to being racist. Black, white, anything in between - it doesn't matter. Racism is the belief that somebody of one race is inferior to another, that is something that is attributable to any human regardless of skin color. The point about Jews was to demonstrate that: Jews have lived all over the world and encountered all different ethnic populations, and have been discriminated against by all of them, including by POC. Look at people like the Incans and Aztecs in South America, who would take over other groups, enslave them, and kill them because of their race. By the way, the Incans and Aztecs were POC. Look at the Japanese and what they did to the Chinese in WW2.
I was specifically speaking to your point about Whiteness being fundamental in racism, which was wrong. It is not an opinion and you don't need a source for it, it is World History. You are blatantly mistaking racism and systemic racism - systemic racism is what happens when racism takes root in government and is given power. And even then, you can have racism without having systemic racism. What those whites are experiencing in South Africa - where they are being killed for existing, can't own land or own majority of a businesss - that is both racism and systemic racism.
Again, I'll restate something I said earlier - I don't blame you and I'm not attacking you - this is the fault of the media for not educating people on what is racism, what is systemic racism, what terrorism is - etc. Instead, they've helped to propagate this idea of a white devil. It isn't helped by the fact that idiots like trump are running around, but even still the media has failed in this regard.
I accused you of misunderstanding me because I said, shortly put; no racism targeted at white skin. You responded with - Jewish people. I thought mean to say ~"But Jewish people are oppressed and they are white". - When I already said there are other factors to consider. If it's not that then I misunderstood instead.
About the second paragraph I already talked about that. I did say there is racism where no white people have been involved, but that I'm talking about the system that was born out of the conquest. It's the only racism that's really universal, and the motive behind the attacks against people of color in the Americas right now. So, white people didn't create racism, but we created that racism.
Also, I don't feel like you're attacking me, but I feel like I have to repeat some things, like above. One last thing, there is no final answer to these things. Even definitions are manmade and my college professors cannot treat these subjects the same way they do math and physics. I stand by this opinion though, I have it because I've reflected these issues with myself, not because I'm quoting sources that sound smart. tldr, not brainwashed by the media.
alexander: Race is not only about genetics. It's a broad term that considers a lot of factors, ethnicity included. It's been used in many different ways over the centuries, not just to distinguish skin colors like black, white etc. I called Judaism an ethnicity, but science has tracked back genes that confirm there a Jewish race exists. Either way Jewish people experience racism because they are an oppressed ethnic group/race.
alexander: Race is not only about genetics. It's a broad term that considers a lot of factors, ethnicity included. It's been used in many different ways over the centuries, not just to distinguish skin colors like black, white etc. I called Judaism an ethnicity, but science has tracked back genes that confirm there a Jewish race exists. Either way Jewish people experience racism because they are an oppressed ethnic group/race.
The only group that could promote such oppression today are the muslims. A group you often try to champion in these threads.
The only group that could promote such oppression today are the muslims. A group you often try to champion in these threads.
alexander if trump told you that muslims are great people tomorrow and changed his foreign policy to benefit them would you change your mind about them or would you believe what you "know" about muslims and oppose trump's support of them
alexander if trump told you that muslims are great people tomorrow and changed his foreign policy to benefit them would you change your mind about them or would you believe what you "know" about muslims and oppose trump's support of them
Absolutely not. I would think Trump went completely mad, or that he is pretty high at least. An politician opinions only matter if they align with reality. And the reality is that islamic countries still to this day live by laws and cultures that infringe various human rights. Some more then others, but enough to be a concern to western civilization.
@ alexander : I'm curious regarding what you have already said about the Islamic society and Muslims. I would like to know what do you mean with the following, please.
I don't know, how about the truck attacks in France, Germany, the shootings in Paris, the bombing in Hungary, knifes attack in Germany, a shooting at a german mall, a French priest that had his throat slit? and I'm not even touching the rapes and other petty crimes yet. The Trump opposition, namely the liberal elite, turn a blind eye to all these attacks and report them as little as they can, while still vindicating that there is nothing wrong with islamic society, and somehow they will leave all their bigotry the moment they cross the borders to a first world country? They all treat these attacks as isolated incidents.
And do you know who created this ban? Yours truly, mr Obama and his administration.In fact, you can inform yourself more about it in this video:
In fact, this ban affects countries that are considered hot beds for forming terrorists, so Trump actions are not actually illegal, as the Obama administration first created the concept for this ban in fear that these countries could bring terrorists to america. Trump is not breaking the law by taking precautions that will keep the american people safe. You are claming this is an ethnical ban, but I don't believe it. this is surely more then just skin color and such other trivialities.
Bold : What do you mean exactly with the words in bold ? Also, why do you think the Islamic society is bigot ?
Maybe because christians are an terribly persecuted group in middle east? I can't imagine why Trump would want to prioritize them. It's clear the muslims need aid first, so helpless wrecking their own countries...
And I post videos when I believe they help make my point across. If you don't like it, too bad. If I find one that can add to the conversation at hand, I will. And if I believe I can just debate the issue directly, I will make sure to do so. And I don't watch fox news. It's better to inform myself from more objective new sources that are not afraid to expose the hard facts.
Bold : What do you mean by Christians are persecuted in Middle East ? Also, Muslims wreck their own countries because of what exactly ?
Just because they support Trump, doesn't mean Trump condones and supports them. Or was his message at CNN to stop hate crimer during his elections not clear enough? Not to mention many of these so called hate crimes were hoaxes anyway.
And also, you seem to have the wrong idea Sushi. I don't actually support Trump's travel ban. Though not because of some cushy holier-then-thou moral reason. I don't support it simply because he hasn't vetted enough countries whose population could mean a threat to the american people. Making it innefective. What I defend are your ridiculous claims that Trump is doing such things out of prejudice, malice and stupidity. As if allowing people from muslim majority countries was ever a smart idea.
And Jesus, do you even pay attention? Apart from Syria, the ban is not permant. At worst, some couple hundred people would be inconvenienced at airports for a couple of months. That hardly makes Trump an evil fascist. This man actually make some really good points about the travel ban, and I mostly agree with him:
Because Sushi, if you think for a second that your "charitable" views on immigration are not doing incredible harm, let me slap you with some facts and statistics to wake you. Because terrorism is not the only reason people don't want to see individuals from those nations entering their countries.
Let me shorten this for you. Sweden stopped rating ethnical background for crimes ever since 2005 once it started to show that the overwhelming number of offenders were immigrant men. But countries that do not do this yet have similar results. Denmark sex assaults are commited in 80% by migrants. Statistically, 1 in 4 women in Sweden are expected to suffer an rape attempt, something that did not exist before their open door policies. Lethal violence increased 29% from 2014 to 2015 alone. 53% of the incarcerated population consists of people with recent immigrant background, despite migrant population porcentage being in the single digits. People mocked Trump over his comment about Sweden, but look at what happened a day later:
And a nice gem I found recently. Straight from the mouth of an immigrant that came straight from Africa. Let's hear what she has to say about the behaviour of her fellow immigrants:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Luekb-NmkXI
In conclusion. I'm not enterly against immigration from islamic countries. This woman is proof not all of them are evil. That being said, anyone that comes from these lands should be under scrutiny when they arrive to make sure the host country is not allowing in some thug that will endanger the safety and lives of the native population. And if they segregate, if they undermine the lifestyle of their hosts, if they resort to violence for seeing cultural differences, then they absolutely deserve to be deported.
Bold : Does a Muslim from a Muslim majority country traveling to another country is a negative thing for the other country and / or do you mean that a person from Muslim majority country is probably an ISIS member ?
The articles you listed, do you mean with those percentages that they are done by Muslims ? Also, do you think the majority of Muslims are evil ? And do you think that every Muslim would want to make crimes, violence and bully freely in any time s/he wanted ?
The only group that could promote such oppression today are the muslims. A group you often try to champion in these threads.
You mean Muslims oppress Jews, or Muslims want and / or exercise oppression ?
@ alexander : I'm curious regarding what you have already said about the Islamic society and Muslims. I would like to know what do you mean with the following, please.
Bold : What do you mean exactly with the words in bold ? Also, why do you think the Islamic society is bigot ?
Bold : What do you mean by Christians are persecuted in Middle East ? Also, Muslims wreck their own countries because of what exactly ?
Bold : Does a Muslim from a Muslim majority country traveling to another country is a negative thing for the other country and / or do you mean that a person from Muslim majority country is probably an ISIS member ?
The articles you listed, do you mean with those percentages that they are done by Muslims ? Also, do you think the majority of Muslims are evil ? And do you think that every Muslim would want to make crimes, violence and bully freely in any time s/he wanted ?
You mean Muslims oppress Jews, or Muslims want and / or exercise oppression ?
What I mean is that islamic society still lives by ideals that westen civilization finds unnaceptable. And when muslims move away to western countries, many of them still hold such views. Over 10 middle eastern countries punish homosexualism with death. The majority of others punish it with imprisionment. you're from Lebanon right? Doesn't your country hold a majority view that homosexuals should be shunned from society? Doesn't your country posses the legal act 534, that makes homosexual behaviour illegal by the eyes of the law? And then in England, an recent poll showed that 61% of british muslims believe homosexuality should be criminalized. And there is more. This was shot at an western mosque. Let's hear what these open minded muslims have to say about homosexuals:
Muslims wreck their countries for several reasons. Be political, territorial or ethnical/religious. Here are the list of major conflicts in the middle east in recent time:
In the last 15 years alone, these conflicts lead to between 300k deaths to nearly a million. Yes, the americans played a big part in the Iraq war, and I certanly don't approve of their interventionism.
And this is what I mean by the persecution of christians:
Other then North Korea, the majority of countries that cause these persecutions are islamic. The estimative is that 100K christians are killed for their faith yearly, and that happens mostly in muslim majority countries. If that is not persecution, I don't know what is.
When did I ever implied that someone from a muslim majority country immigrating was likely to be an ISIS member? But yes, muslims immigrating in masses to other countries is pretty bad. Sweden has a rape epidemic now, with the overwhelming majority of reports being of gangs of immigrant men. But it's all unnoficial as the authorities stopped making official stats in 2005 when they realized immigrants were involved with the majority of crimes. And then Germany, were the crime rate considerably increased, recieving reports of over 400K crimes ever since their open door policies started:
And nice attempt at baiting me into an ignorant response, but if you paid attention to what I said, I did mentioned that I don't think every muslims is evil, or that they are evil in their majority. So no, I don't think every muslims is a psycopath waiting to go berserk, but there are enough of them causing trouble and crime in western countries for their presence to be a reason of concern (in places were mass immigration is happening anyway).
And no, muslims don't currently opress jews as they fled the middle east in recent years due mostly to persecution.
but if they ever came to go back there, I much believe things would continue to be the same, and the muslims would opress the jews. Otherwise, how come that all these countries in the middle east banned the entrance of jews from Israel?
Syria, Iran, Iraq, Yemen, Libya, Algeria, Bangladesh, Brunei, Kuwait, Lebanon, Malaysia, Oman, Pakistan, Sudan, Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates. Hey look, your country is there too!
Interests:I'm still alive! more active on twitter :)
Posted 25 February 2017 - 11:32 PM
You are wrong about a lot of things alexander. Let's sum it up.
The middle east was all fine until the west got involved. Has anyone seen pics from Afghanistan in the 60's? People wore miniskirts and wearing hijab was a choice. Muslims don't wreck their own countries. Yemen didn't have a threatening ISIS presence before Obama came and moled it to the ground. Trump's first invasion was to Yemen against generals advises, they gathered no intel and killed children. Maybe the middle easterns would stop hating the west if we just stopped turning themj into dust.
Crime committed by immigrants in scandinavia is typically blown up, speaking from experience. I bet you listened to FOX's swedish national security imposter too? XD
- The persecution of christians is in many ways a reaction to the west - colonialism, supporting Israel etc. Which isn't an excuse, but it gives you a bit of context..either way they're not the ones in most danger in the region, because muslims are aprox. 90% of ISIS victims. Again muslims don't wreck their own countries. By saying that you are putting ISIS victims in the same box as ISIS and that's bad.
Finally, muslims do not oppress jews. They accept jews from many countries just not Israel, because they are illegal settlers. It's not a jewish ban, it's a zionist ban. It's a form of resistance, a way of not recognizing Israelis as owner of the land they live on. When the country changes its name to Palestine again, the middle east may accept Israeli jews. I don't want to start an Israel vs Palestine debate, but those bans can't be compared.. http://www.npr.org/s...we-plan-to-stay
Honestly you sound a lot like this guy;
Don't complain about muslim's homophobia when your president selected a homophobic extremist VP and just removed protection of trans people in bathrooms.
You are wrong about a lot of things alexander. Let's sum it up.
The middle east was all fine until the west got involved. Has anyone seen pics from Afghanistan in the 60's? People wore miniskirts and wearing hijab was a choice. Muslims don't wreck their own countries. Yemen didn't have a threatening ISIS presence before Obama came and moled it to the ground. Trump's first invasion was to Yemen against generals advises, they gathered no intel and killed children. Maybe the middle easterns would stop hating the west if we just stopped turning themj into dust.
Crime committed by immigrants in scandinavia is typically blown up, speaking from experience. I bet you listened to FOX's swedish national security imposter too? XD
- The persecution of christians is in many ways a reaction to the west - colonialism, supporting Israel etc. Which isn't an excuse, but it gives you a bit of context..either way they're not the ones in most danger in the region, because muslims are aprox. 90% of ISIS victims. Again muslims don't wreck their own countries. By saying that you are putting ISIS victims in the same box as ISIS and that's bad.
Finally, muslims do not oppress jews. They accept jews from many countries just not Israel, because they are illegal settlers. It's not a jewish ban, it's a zionist ban. It's a form of resistance, a way of not recognizing Israelis as owner of the land they live on. When the country changes its name to Palestine again, the middle east may accept Israeli jews. I don't want to start an Israel vs Palestine debate, but those bans can't be compared.. http://www.npr.org/s...we-plan-to-stay
Honestly you sound a lot like this guy;
Because your president elected a homophobic extremist VP and just removed protection of trans people in bathrooms.
- I guess you missed the part were I said I did not approved of USA interventionism. They sure have no place in meddling in affairs that are not affecting them. But that doesn't change that after the USA triggered some of these conflicts, the islamic world seems to have an cycle of never ending conflict. And have you seen this?
It's a picture of Iranian woman protesting in 1979 against the forced use of the hijab right after the Iranian revolution. An revolution were the goverment that was being supported by the united states was overthrown by extreme islamists groups. Convenient how you didn't mention that, huh? Like, islamic oppression being caused by muslim fundamentalists rather american interventionism.
-First of all, Vox is biased left winged garbage, and more importantly, fake news. And you're the one mocking me about FOX. The dishonesty here is off the damn charts.
Let's hear from the mouth of an actual Sweden citizen (who is actually an immigrant) what is truly happening to his country. And of course, he gives sources for all his claims:
Try actually going to Sweden, and wonder around an migrant heavy neighborhood for a day without a group protecting you to see if what you're saying it's true. If you come back at all that is.
- But I didn't said that muslims don't suffer under ISIS, only that christians are more vulnerable as a religious minority, and as such they would require more attention for refugee aid. And you even accept that their persecution is real.
- So if they don't opress Jews, how come they were driven out by muslims a couple of decades ago? And how come their current presence in the middle east is so small? It's almost like they are not welcome there.
- That video is moronic. Your views seem to be that "if you have it good somewere else, and if you have problems of your own, you instantly lose the right to critize someone from a lower station". The fact that things are not perfect here in the west don't excuse all the **** up crap going on in Africa and the middle east. That's irresponsible and ignorant.
- Hahahaha, joke's on you Sushi, because Trump is NOT my president. my president is Michel Temer, as I am a Brazilian citizen. Just to show how little you know.
Awww, I'm so sad that they removed protection from trans people in the bathrooms, as that's clearly more important then keeping the safety of woman and little girls. as such stupid law was filled with holes and allowed man to pretend to be an trans woman and gain free access to a female's bathroom, and people would have no power to stop him over fear of an legal lawsuit.
Interests:I'm still alive! more active on twitter :)
Posted 26 February 2017 - 12:59 AM
I do remember you saying you voted Trump in this thread..but anyways point is you support Trump, not that you live in the same country. It's figure of speech. I have a prime minister, but I don't support her so she's not "my" prime minister.
You've said before that you are against american invasion so I know that, but my point is you shouldn't blame muslims for issues in their region. +Trump is pro-invasion. And I know all about Iran and its issues in 1979, the 50's and so on. The middle east is not a country, but a group of nations right? Point isn't that it was a utopia down there, but there was democracy and no ISIS, Al-Qaeda, or Taliban. But they were still muslims. So..something else than their religion is causing the disruption in the middle east.
Now I'm not an avid VOX reader so I can't say if it's fake news or not, I just looked for an article because I've read about this before. Most good newspapers I read are in scandinavian languages, I guess you don't know them though? It's a pretty active debate up here so there are a lot of articles. Still I think you should handle the FOX joke when you said this to T XD;
"I think you forgot to make a child's sobbing voice and play a sad violin while asking all that, but I'll indulge you, sure."
I do remember you saying you voted Trump in this thread..but anyways point is you support Trump, not that you live in the same country. It's figure of speech. I have a prime minister, but I don't support her so she's not "my" prime minister.
You've said before that you are against american invasion so I know that, but my point is you shouldn't blame muslims for issues in their region. +Trump is pro-invasion. And I know all about Iran and its issues in 1979, the 50's and so on. The middle east is not a country, but a group of nations right? Point isn't that it was a utopia down there, but there was democracy and no ISIS, Al-Qaeda, or Taliban. But they were still muslims. So..something else than their religion is causing the disruption in the middle east.
Now I'm not an avid VOX reader so I can't say if it's fake news or not, I just looked for an article because I've read about this before. Most good newspapers I read are in scandinavian languages, I guess you don't know them though? It's a pretty active debate up here so there are a lot of articles. Still I think you should handle the FOX joke when you said this to T XD;
"I think you forgot to make a child's sobbing voice and play a sad violin while asking all that, but I'll indulge you, sure."
I never said I voted for Trump. I would challange you to prove me wrong. What I did was to support his campaign. And yes, this woman IS your prime minister. The fact you don't support her is irrelevant. Because by law, she is your leader. I for one absultely despise Michel Temer and wish he was not my president, but the truth he is, and I need to accept that fact.
Then let's just agree that military and social issues happening in the middle east occur for a multitude of reasons, being for outside intervention, or extremist religious groups taking power.
And my mocking of T XD were due to her rather condencending questions. Asking me if I think all muslims are evil and if I think they are inherently bad as people. Despite me clearly saying that I did not believed so in a previous post. But alright, if her question did not had any malicious intentions, that I apologize for any insult.
Interests:I'm still alive! more active on twitter :)
Posted 26 February 2017 - 01:41 AM
I never said I voted for Trump. I would challange you to prove me wrong. What I did was to support his campaign. And yes, this woman IS your prime minister. The fact you don't support her is irrelevant. Because by law, she is your leader. I for one absultely despise Michel Temer and wish he was not my president, but the truth he is, and I need to accept that fact.
Then let's just agree that military and social issues happening in the middle east occur for a multitude of reasons, being for outside intervention, or extremist religious groups taking power.
And my mocking of T XD were due to her rather condencending questions. Asking me if I think all muslims are evil and if I think they are inherently bad as people. Despite me clearly saying that I did not believed so in a previous post. But alright, if her question did not had any malicious intentions, that I apologize for any insult.
nah I checked, you said "people" voted Trump, not "I", so I was wrong. But now you're just picking on my choice of words instead of adressing my actual arguments.
I don't think T XD had any bad intentions, just that she got a bad impression of your posts and wanted you to make yourself clear.
