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#341 Nate River

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 02:15 PM

if we wanted to talk about narutos world . and then try to bring it to reality . there are things should be clear.
 kishi seems to believe in the after life .  and justice in the after life . thats how i saw it  cause naruto told sasuke we will meet in the after life .
 
if there was an after life . which means that there is justice . which mean the death will have another meaning . for me i believe in the after life and the god .and the justice in reality.and i dont agree with kishi concept of the human gods or he might believe there is no god but  only happy after life.
 
my point is  if u guys believe in the after life u will see the story differently . but if u guys were Athiests that mean u will never understand kishi message nor to understand it . .here is why. because the athiesm believe we will just die and be nothin .its all black nothing there , so when u lose someone u believe u lost him forever and at least to get the revenge for him   and if .there was no after life . i agree with this . its fair to kill the one who killed my beloved ones . and there u go the world will never know peace . cause there is no believing in the afer life .


It'd still be a dodge. Part of the issue is, yes, holding them responsible. However, do you honestly think that after going through all this Kishimoto is going to then turn around and openly condemn this guys to hell. Even if Kishimoto thought they would go there, he is not going to show or mention that. A brief reprieve from Naruto only to have an enterity of suffering? No way is Kishimoto going down that path.

Two the problem is also Naruto having to explain letting mass murderers walk. He never has to explain this to people who lost loved ones because of these people. They always do something that (a) is necessary to some important objective (a way for Naruto to say if I hadn't saved them what would have happened) and (b) results in them dying anyway (no harm no foul). Naruto never has to deal with okay, I let a mass murderer walk, so now what do I do?

#342 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 02:21 PM

Well...I have one somewhat LAP ready but I need to do some editing and looks like it's harder to do so on a mobile. I guess it will have to wait.

#343 ioria

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 02:28 PM

"Hey, Obito, thank you for killing my friends!" :thanks:


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#344 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 02:31 PM

"Hey, Obito, thank you for killing my friends!" :thanks:

Lol

Maybe if Naruto said the same as Sakura, it would be reasonable. Eh, nitpick on my end. Still, funny to read that. Just have Obito go "Don't mention it, buddy!"

#345 BakeNeko-Chan

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 02:32 PM

if we wanted to talk about narutos world . and then try to bring it to reality . there are things should be clear.

 kishi seems to believe in the after life .  and justice in the after life . thats how i saw it  cause naruto told sasuke we will meet in the after life .

 

if there was an after life . which means that there is justice . which mean the death will have another meaning . for me i believe in the after life and the god .and the justice in reality.and i dont agree with kishi concept of the human gods or he might believe there is no god but  only happy after life.

 

my point is  if u guys believe in the after life u will see the story differently . but if u guys were Athiests that mean u will never understand kishi message nor to understand it . .here is why. because the athiesm believe we will just die and be nothin .its all black nothing there , so when u lose someone u believe u lost him forever and at least to get the revenge for him   and if .there was no after life . i agree with this . its fair to kill the one who killed my beloved ones . and there u go the world will never know peace . cause there is no believing in the afer life . 

 

 

and if u were believers its different . ex .my god tell me that if some one killed someone from my family .  i have 2 choices 1st to kill him and am not going to be blamed for it . or 2nd which is the better one to be able to kill him but to forgive him and tells him why i forgive him . cause this will end the vengeance and killing cycle . thats why i agree the most with kishi message and understand it . but for sure am here talking about the concept of the peace and the forgiving . and the war is different and every Sitiuation has its own thing but  the idea is if u believe then u know u will meet your loved ones .and u forgive this person after that ill leave him to god to ask him about his other deeds . thats how i see it. for now

 

I'm going to have to disagree with you. It's is not about being an atheist or a theist affecting the reader's ability to understand Kishi's message, at least it isn't for me. I'm not atheist, and I've been raised to believe in forgiveness/redemption/second chances and all that, but I still disagree with the way Kishi presents his message.

 

Forgiveness does not mean erasing accountability. If you murder, you have to face consequences. You took another person's life and that doesn't just go away simply because you realize it was wrong. And also there is such a thing as righteous anger; you can be angry at a person, who say, murdered your family. Feeling anger is human. The purpose of forgiveness is so that those feelings don't come to consume and corrupt you and forgiving a person who has done you wrong is not about them, it's about the preservation of one's own soul.

 

That's the way I see it anyway. But the way Kishi presents it, it's as if all the bad things are just water under the bridge once the 'evil' person has a change of heart. I don't agree with that, not at all. Actions should have consequences, but apparently not in Naruto. You can do as many bad things as you want, but so long as you realize it was wrong, no one will hold it against you.


Edited by BakeNeko-Chan, 03 July 2014 - 02:36 PM.


#346 Nate River

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 02:37 PM

I'm going to have to disagree with you. It's is not about being an atheist or a theist affecting the reader's ability to understand Kishi's message, at least it isn't for me. I'm not atheist, and I've been raised to believe in forgiveness/redemption/second chances and all that, but I still disagree with the way Kishi presents his message.
 
Forgiveness does not mean erasing accountability. If you murder, you have to face consequences. You took another person's and that doesn't just go away simply because you realize it was wrong. And also there is such a thing as righteous anger; you can be angry at a person, who say, murdered your family. Feeling anger is human. The purpose of forgiveness is so that those feelings don't come to consume and corrupt you and forgiving a person who has done you wrong is not about them, it's about the preservation of one's own soul.
 
That's the way I see it anyway. But the way Kishi presents it, it's as if all the bad things are just water under the bridge once the 'evil' person has a change of heart. I don't agree with that, not at all. Actions should have consequences, but apparently not in Naruto. You can do as many bad things as you want, but so long as you realize it was wrong, no one will hold it against you.


I actually think its worse. Because they all end up dead, Naruto doesn't even have to worry about this part of it. He's completely excused from having to deal with any of this.

#347 only Naruto

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 02:45 PM

It'd still be a dodge. Part of the issue is, yes, holding them responsible. However, do you honestly think that after going through all this Kishimoto is going to then turn around and openly condemn this guys to hell. Even if Kishimoto thought they would go there, he is not going to show or mention that. A brief reprieve from Naruto only to have an enterity of suffering? No way is Kishimoto going down that path.

Two the problem is also Naruto having to explain letting mass murderers walk. He never has to explain this to people who lost loved ones because of these people. They always do something that (a) is necessary to some important objective (a way for Naruto to say if I hadn't saved them what would have happened) and (b) results in them dying anyway (no harm no foul). Naruto never has to deal with okay, I let a mass murderer walk, so now what do I do?

 i agree with u that .kishi wont send them to hell .and he think that its enough if they regret it and try to make it up but yes thats not  enough  he should make it in detail . 

 

 and yes if kishi wanted naruto to let them go he should have made his story better .cause i believe kishi doesnt know  the whole idea of this peace and want to deliver it and i think its ok . am with u to deliver this kind of important message u should make a full story and explain it in detail .. my point is that i understands kishis message but the way he makes it i dont agree with him .



#348 Inferno180

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 02:48 PM

Its still really just hilariously ironic, why people keep up so much insistence about SS and NH when things dont add up,

 

I mean SS is all but just wrecked and with Sakura not even trusting him, they are losing their only other pillar of support, theres no need or even reason for sasuke to love sakura after all this, the only love sasuke had was towards his family, that deal is just going in the end back to his family, aka team 7. Once all his demons are solved. But is just again, the dual fact of sasuke never having or needing this trait, even at this part now, its just my god why do people continue to insist this when it breaks so much logic? Even sakuras character development would just be like, all this struggling, all this emotional pressure over the story for SS in the end? This is literally pushing the aspect of love as a complicated emotion too far, while it is a complicated emotion there are limits to when its outright stupid. This isn't something sakura should be holding onto, its such a negative trait its something that has to change, to be rendered positive in the end after so much pressure and just making it go back to like part 1, its really just saying SS happened because Sakura hoped, thats it. Its so pointless it foregos and shafts so much potential for her. It just breaks character development for her and its counter productive. I can only hope that Kakashi's words in 675 and Sakura herself just move on after this, move on from the love and focus more on naruto. I mean she can still be friends and care for sasuke like that as kakashi said, but to seriously think kishi wouldn't even change this in the whole deal when theres not even a point for Sasuke himself to love sakura or any girl, not to mention there was never any real integrated development between the 2, this is why SS just needs to die off, its hopefully in the process of doing that now ever since 635, 675, and especially 680 came in. I mean sasuke is supposed to be "good" now yet he lets sakura and kakashi fall, him still being like this is just more reason, SS needs to just be destroyed. Its like a cancer and a cockroach, whenever there is some moment of deconstructing it, its still around. Its nothing more than dramatic suspense at times but as the manga nears the end, the thing I am waiting to see is the trigger when sakura moves on because all this negativity has to lead somewhere. In the same way NS would be wasted if all the development and attention didn't go somewhere meaningful, SS just happening would be a huge stain on the series because how could you even show something as positive after its been something so negative for so long. I mean there are many fans like us even non-pairing or just neutral to sakura that wonder if she will move beyond sasuke entirely, and yet others think its a nightmare or somehow kills the story if sakura ended up loving naruto, but again isnt this story about change? Its literally just because kishi made it so sakura is just loving a shadow, this is something that has to change in some way and well, if sasuke isnt going to change or has evena  plotwise need or reason or motive to love another girl then by reasons of deduction, sakura is going to get over sasuke for character development on her own and story necessity. God I just want this arc as it moves on to just murder SS, Its nothing but a cancer that doesn't solve anything for the plot. NH at least has development but its just due to kishis lack of attention to it.

 

But god if SS came, I know kishi is not good with romance but if he seriously thought SS is good, it wouldnt be. Otherwise his whole deal with romance is bad in that if he is intent on NH or SS, then as he has used both or portrayed them, he has done a very freaking terrible job with the romance subplot if he is intent on NH or SS being used in the end when NH is just infrequent and SS is just a mess. Yet if he is set on NS then the majority of development and stuff is meaningful and he has a good idea of what he is doing, its not the best story but still its the one that makes the most sense in the end and runs along with the main plot, no issues. It still makes sense how in the end sakuras end development could in part well yes involve loving naruto. I mean we get her showing she supports his dream and wants him to become hokage, not even hinata is shown with this, so perhaps this story with her could be bigger than the similar and simplified one that was given to Kushina? Everything with NS is still able to make a meaningful ending with no issues to the story.

 

All I know is, I want to see SS burn and die, ironically its funny the one who did the most burning was sasuke himself and Sakura finally began to not trust him, that was a good start but with kakashi saying its a different feeling now, I hope kishi makes her get over him in full and that she gets the maturity she needs. If the trait really is now changing due to the emotional pressure of recent chapters, then hopefully this is part of that deal in conjunction with her moving towards naruto more like with 663, her wanting him to become hokage, putting more hopes and faith and care on naruto while less and less on sasuke, kinda an opposite of how she reacted at first between both of them when she was annoyed by naruto and loved sasuke but now fully cares for and supports naruto while distrusting sasuke, and this deal should continue to have more change between sakura and both naruto and sasuke. This is why I say, the complex situation of she cares for and supports naruto more and wants his dream to come true yet she "loves" sasuke. So in this event, she has the better relationship with the one she cares for so my point is, when sasuke is intent on harming naruto, how will she act or react to the prospect or situation of the one she supports and cares for facing or being prone to harm/death from the one she "loves?" If you ask me, its already a given she will side with naruto.



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#349 only Naruto

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 03:05 PM

 

I'm going to have to disagree with you. It's is not about being an atheist or a theist affecting the reader's ability to understand Kishi's message, at least it isn't for me. I'm not atheist, and I've been raised to believe in forgiveness/redemption/second chances and all that, but I still disagree with the way Kishi presents his message.

 

Forgiveness does not mean erasing accountability. If you murder, you have to face consequences. You took another person's life and that doesn't just go away simply because you realize it was wrong. And also there is such a thing as righteous anger; you can be angry at a person, who say, murdered your family. Feeling anger is human. The purpose of forgiveness is so that those feelings don't come to consume and corrupt you and forgiving a person who has done you wrong is not about them, it's about the preservation of one's own soul.

 

That's the way I see it anyway. But the way Kishi presents it, it's as if all the bad things are just water under the bridge once the 'evil' person has a change of heart. I don't agree with that, not at all. Actions should have consequences, but apparently not in Naruto. You can do as many bad things as you want, but so long as you realize it was wrong, no one will hold it against you.

yeah i understand your point . i actually have my ideas of peace .which are different from kishis. but i said that i understand  kishi message about forgiveness to make a peaceful world . .but in naruto he doesnt do it as perfect .but that i think because kishi know the idea but not all the details. 

 

as for my self . i prefer to forgive .and i have the choice to let him free or go to prison for some time or any punishment .that depends on the person and his understanding . but am with u that its not fair that someone kill or do something without punishment .its to u when you are able to kill him or punish him no one will blaming u .or the better to forgive i think to forgive is better .but again its all about your understanding of  the hatred and peace 

 

 and i dont mean that every athiest is bad or evil ,i meant when a believer /. Athiest   lose thier loved ones  the ATHIEST  will go to punishment or vengeance more than the other cause he think he wont see his loved ones again cause there is no after life . which leads to cycle of hatred . the believer  knows that there is an after life and he will meet his beloved ones which make t easier . . thats how i see it . 

 

 p.s. i know that not every athiest will take revenge   nor every believer will forgive . .but i talk about the idea in general . :smile:



#350 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 03:11 PM

Sorry to bring this topic back but hey, you never know.

http://sparda3g.tumb...rusaku-parallel

#351 only Naruto

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 03:30 PM

Sorry to bring this topic back but hey, you never know.

http://sparda3g.tumb...rusaku-parallel

nice post. is it yours or copy past  :D   i think that at least it wont be harmful to have an a obirin parallel .



#352 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 03:34 PM

nice post. is it yours or copy past  :D   i think that at least it wont be harmful to have an a obirin parallel .

It's mine. Unless you're talking about those pages. Yeah, people know me for LONG explanation and James is my translator. I'm apparently like Sylvestor Stallone to these guys. Lol.

#353 only Naruto

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 03:42 PM

It's mine. Unless you're talking about those pages. Yeah, people know me for LONG explanation and James is my translator. I'm apparently like Sylvestor Stallone to these guys. Lol.

hahaha  .actually i wasnt talking about that . but good to know . :D  i ll go  now to check you other posts( sylvestor) ..as long as the post has a good point   i dont care how long it is . 



#354 Rozette

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 04:05 PM

Kishi quote of the week: "I wasn't able to see it in theaters, but I got the DVD for The Wind Rises! Haven't been able to watch it yet though!"


tumblr_mxbjasXMEh1smr913o2_500.png

There was once a hero who flew too close to the sun.

His wings of wax fell apart and he plummeted to the earth...


#355 Gojira

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 04:57 PM

Well looks like Kishi is setting up his last chance to make a rin parallel.


eh10ut.jpg


#356 luffyq1

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 05:01 PM

Well looks like Kishi is setting up his last chance to make a rin parallel.

I'll probably barf if he does.


Untitled_zpsbc671263.png


#357 Gojira

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 05:05 PM

I'll probably barf if he does.

Better get a bag.


eh10ut.jpg


#358 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 05:11 PM

It'll be funny if Obito just dies, then randomly sput out "BTW YOU LOOK LIKE RIN. Gah! x_x"

#359 Sakura~

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 05:29 PM

I don't want Obito to die. I love him  :wibble:


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#360 narusaku256

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 05:39 PM

I don't want Obito to die. I love him  :wibble:

PLEASE PLEASE don't transform into Sasuke when he does :wibble: you know...the whole Uchiha curse thing XD

Edited by narusaku256, 03 July 2014 - 05:40 PM.

                                                       tumblr_nokgzxLJ4A1ts94lmo1_500.gif





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