RTN isn't canon but there are stuff in the movie that are very similar to what is happening right now in the manga.
Any hint of familiarity with the general plot of the movie was lost when the motives of the antagonists detracted from each other. Currently the only hint of narrative accordance is the significance of the Yin Portion of Kurama's chakra. But even with that the interactions and circumstances are very much different.
No one is saying RTN is canon. But because Kishi wrote both RTN and the manga, the movie would be close to what Kishi is seeing regarding the story in the manga.
Whether Kishi wrote it or not is irrelevant. There have been instances of mangaka taking a role in the creation of animated material whilst maintaining a strictly defined line in the fact that any material that they choose to create has no implicative hints to the original manga. Kishi's contribution to this story would be coincident with that phenomenon. He makes contributions but his material does not hold any inherent significance to his perception of the manga since the movie amounts to little more than filler; in the same vein as the Utakata arc.
Yeah, that's how it is.
RTN isn't canon as in RTN isn't from the manga, but the author himself wrote RTN, so that is something that every reader of the manga should consider everything that was happening in the movie cause it included the author putting his ideas into it and writing its plot.
These movies are essentially filler. The author is permitted to take any creative liberties that he wants because he understands that it will have no ramifications to the story that he's writing. By Kishi's own admittance he's just shoehorning any minuscule or irrelevant thoughts that he might have had into the movie that he was unable to implement into the manga. Those concepts hold as much weight as the SSJ4 transformation being a veritable source of Toriyama's impression of the manga just because he created the design himself.
Thus it's why we are seeing some ideas from the movie being taken and putted in the manga. Not the exact same way, but in the same context.
The existence of Yin Kurama predates the movie by several years. It's the only worthwhile, arguable basis that the argument about Kishi implementing concepts from the movie into the manga has to stand on. Anything and everything else is inconclusive at best, and contradictory at worst.
Actually, when Naruto is put by Itachi in Genjutsu when he meets them, Naruto was trying to break it. Itachi says that impressive, but still not enough
That was a generic Sharingan genjutsu. People throughout the manga have proven that the basic level illusions are breakable. But as I already stated, Tsukuyomi is of a different calibre. One which you can only match if you meet certain specifications exclusive only to the Uchiha Clan or possibly the jinchuuriki since they would theoretically have their bijuu available to disrupt their chakra for them. But having someone else dispel the genjutsu for you is different to you yourself managing the feat.
[his control of the chakra at that moment wasn't that great,
Quality of chakra manipulation doesn't matter. Itachi never made any suggestions of control being a factor in the disruption of Tsukuyomi. You need the Mangekyou Sharingan and Uchiha ancestry to be able to dispel it. Without those qualities, you can only endure until the illusion stops by itself. Nothing contradicts this fact.
either and we all know Sakura is the best one out there].
Where was it stated that Sakura was the "best one out there"? I recall her manipulation receiving praise from Shizune and Kakashi, but there weren't any comments made to suggest that Tsunade wasn't her equal or superior. Or that there weren't any non-medical shinobi who didn't have comparable levels of chakra control for that matter.
And it's shown in a off-screen manner when Naruto is trained to overcome genjutsu.
Alot of good that training did for him. The few instances where he has been put into a genjutsu he was unable to protect himself and was forced to rely on the clemency of his opponent or friends to rescue him. Naruto is just about as good with handling illusions as Choji or Kiba are.
The basis of the genjutsu is the same, the only thing is that is Sharingan Genjutsu.
Genjutsu which has been consistently depicted to not be a trifle which any of your run-of-the-mill grunts can withstand. You can't liken fodder genjutsu such as the one Goketsu used to Tsukuyomi, KA, or even basic level Sharingan genjutsu.
That thing was said by Itachi which, we know, lied a lot.
Nothing contradicts what he stated. Kakashi believed that he was capable of breaking Tsukuyomi with a 3 tomoe (later proven to be able to use MS) Sharingan yet he was at Itachi's mercy when the illusion actually began. He misjudged his own abilities and it cost him dearly. You can't just devise these cryptic possibilities or notions without having any sufficient evidence to back them up. And in this particular instance, nothing has been shown to indicate that a non-Uchiha/non-Jinchuuriki can handle Tsukuyomi.
Who said that the said part wasn't a lie either?
Who says that it was? Itachi lied quite often, yes, but some of the information he gave has proven to be accurate like with his recounting of the Uchiha Clan's history and how Madara acquired his EMS. His explanation of Tsukuyomi and its impregnability was proven to be true with an actual demonstration in the manga on a character in possession of a fully mastered Sharingan no less.
You need evidence to back your claim.
Or just a tale like the whole thing surrounding Uchihas?
The Uchiha were accurately depicted as warmongers who incessantly quarreled amongst each other to attain power. That portion of his story was true.
And in the end, like I said, it was a crack theory based on some points in the plot. It can happen or not. I didn't say it surely will.
No, but you seem to be reinforcing its favourability like it's something any one should want to see happen. Honestly, that movie should be left where it is and Kishi needs to rely on his own creativity for ideas to use in his manga. Not dredge up the refuse of his past concepts which he felt were so insignifcant that he could only use them in a filler based movie.
And about Kurama, while Naruto befriended him, it happens that he was shown that even in the host, he's susceptible to genjutsu...
That was back when he and Kurama were still at odds with each other. The benefit of having a creature available to dispel illusions you may have been trapped in only arrives when you and the bijuu come to working terms with each other. This is evidence with Killer Bee and Gyuki.
A thing that was shown in RTN as well. He was about to get Kurama extracted after Menma/Tobi put him in genjutsu.
A movie with questionable writing that cuts corners for the sake of dramatic tension. Assistance from the mangaka or not won't detract from it being filler where consistency is put to the side so the writers can do whatever they want. Though if you want an explanation for why Kurama neglected to free Naruto, you could refer to the explanation above about Naruto having a dubious relationship with his bijuu at the time.
There are some dots that IF you connect, they actually make sense.
Not really. The only part of the movie which has materialised in the manga (which is debatable itself) is the emergence of Yin Kurama to play a significant role in the current fight.
I was just expressing an idea, no need for anyone to get hasty about it. Geez...
Because the basis of your arguments are ambiguously defined and they contradict what's been shown in the manga like with Tsukuyomi being undefeatable by anyone without the Sharingan and Uchiha blood.
*sigh* Okay. Before anyone says one more word I think that we need to clarify what canon and non-canon is when discussing this particular movie. When some of you say it is non-canon, you mean it cannot be inserted into manga events for whatever reason and makes no sense if it did right?
No one is arguing that. We're questioning the logic behind certain people's beliefs that Kishi has chosen to utilise ideas from the movie and insert them into the manga. The situations are different and so are the participating characters. The only similar circumstance is Yin Kurama but he existed before the movie was even being created. To assert that any of the current situation is a product of the movie is undefined really because the material used is just scraps from Kishi's notebook that he felt had no importance in the manga (Sakura's parents are an example of this).
Well That is where we all agree, BUT when we say canon we mean the concept and flow of the movie comes from Kishimoto Masashi himself.
His ideas were irrelevant details or concepts that he apparently believed were too unimportant to be implemented into the manga. It would be like Pierrot extending the fight with Hidan by implementing the character details that Kishi originally intended but was unable to implement. Just because it was product of the author's mind doesn't mean that it's factual in the source material. Because it doesn't exist in the source material.
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