442 replies to this topic

[Dkey]

He can handle himself, but if he stays Edo, he can fight forever, or at least do as much as damage. Now if he goes human without going Jinchuuriki, well he can do well but chakra limit and death is now an option rather than go all out happy like he was doing. So again, annoyed that he was dying and couldn't have fun as Edo, but now must do it now. Obito needs to sacrifice to do the jutsu, so yeah, time to die. Not sure how it will go down, but it's going to be a very interesting one.

 

Honestly the abilities he is displaying won't really make a difference. In fact resurrecting is like a win for the alliance because he can be killed. But the fact that he has hashirama's cells will make him nigh invincible. Add that a near limitless chakra to feed his techniques and it feels like alive or edo tensei is the same thing. It depends if Madara's plan is different or not from what he told Obito. Because if it is it's the possibility that he must push for his plan ounce he is resurrected and can't spar with his childhood friend. Pff I wish for a Sasuke/Madara arrogant comment fight to see who wins.

[TouKen4Life3g]

 
Honestly the abilities he is displaying won't really make a difference. In fact resurrecting is like a win for the alliance because he can be killed. But the fact that he has hashirama's cells will make him nigh invincible. Add that a near limitless chakra to feed his techniques and it feels like alive or edo tensei is the same thing. It depends if Madara's plan is different or not from what he told Obito. Because if it is it's the possibility that he must push for his plan ounce he is resurrected and can't spar with his childhood friend. Pff I wish for a Sasuke/Madara arrogant comment fight to see who wins.

We'll see. He can't do that comet thing anymore. He'll kill himself.

[Strangelove]

Exactly. Katsuyu is known for her power of splitting, so to speak. So one Katsuyu that has the ability to split would be like an entire generation of Slugs...gah, dunno how to put it.

As in she is one while the frogs/snake are like a whole population... gah dunno how express it properly.

 

 

As in Frogs and Snakes find mates, Slugs reproduce asexually...which is weird considering real slugs are hermaphrodites.

[rikakim94]

 

 

As in Frogs and Snakes find mates, Slugs reproduce asexually...which is weird considering real slugs are hermaphrodites.

 

So if someone trys to kill katsuyu with salt there won't be any slugs to replace.

 

Also I wonder if theirs a salt no jutsu. 

[T XD]

 

So if someone trys to kill katsuyu with salt there won't be any slugs to replace.

 

Also I wonder if theirs a salt no jutsu. 

Like salt spraying from fingers or something

[Atheck]

Since we are on the topic of slugs this would perhaps be an appropriate time for adverting a noticeable detail which appears to have not been addressed thoroughly enough by anyone. Can anyone here recall what Katsuyu's physical characteristics are like? She/It's colossal in size, has a multi-coloured figure of differing shades when depicted in monochrome, possesses the same framework of any gastropoda, and finally what is perhaps the most noticeable attribute are her foggy eyes at the ends of her two optical tentacles. 

 

This leads me to refer to Tsunade and her eyes. If you will peruse the two juxtaposed images of her and Katsuyu below you will hopefully notice that they both share a similar design. 

 

 

An identical barred shaded design within the pupils as well as a circular form of the eyes in general. Sages or practitioners of senjutsu acquire the same ocular form as the creatures whom they are training with. Someone else provided an illustration depicting the Sage Modes and the resulting pupilar reshaping effects that they entail.

 

 

 

How is this related to Tsunade, you ask? Well her eyes are similar to Katsuyu's and if she/it is indeed a sage creature then perhaps she retains the same ocular transformation as Orochimaru with his snakelike slits for eyes. Oh, but there is something which probably refutes this whole allegation about Tsunade's eyes and it's that her iris had that design when she was a small child in Hashirama's recollection of her. 

 

 

Unless Tsunade was already dabbling into the sage arts when she was a toddler then the striped patterns of her and Katsuyu's eyes is likely just a coincidence. 

 

Despite the above claim being refuted I would like to believe that a point was made with the shape of the sage animal's eyes and the pupils of the senjutsu user being reconfigured. The frogs have  a horizontal aperture for pupils whilst the snakes' eyes are shaped like vertical slits and finally the slugs possess a human-like rounded form for their eyespots. 

 

One interesting thing to note about the supposed Slug Sage Mode that Hashirama *may* have is that when he entered the state you can infer that a visible distinction is made is made between the pupil and iris. 

 

 

I refer to the panels provided of Katsuyu above for comparison. The circular areas around her eyes are similar to the lightening pigment of Hashirama's iris above, is it not? 

 

Something else which probably will not amount to anything at all but was notable are the similarities between Tsunade's Yin Seal and Byakugou technique with the markings on Katsuyu's body. They form a similar pattern. In fact, the above panels comparing her to Tsunade depict her with a geometric pattern in an area equivalent to that where a human would have the Yin Seal placed on their forehead. Is this a substantiation of a connection from Tsunade's seal to senjutsu? Is it derived from the slug sage? No, not at all. It's probably just another coincidence but it is brainstorming for the third Sage Mode. 

[sushi.]

Tsunade's eyes is just a way of shading. Doesn't need to be related to Katsuyu.

 

When comparing the eyes of summoner and summoning, it would only make sense if the former is in SM. Tsunade's normal eyes shouldn't be related to a slug.

 

It wouldn't be strange if Tsunade has SM, but I think she should have an imperfect one. The reason she didn't use SM in the fight with Madara may be because SM users need someone to hold the enemy off, but they couldn't afford it against such a strong opponent.

 

I wonder who will kick more ass, Tsunade or Sakura in the next chapters? XD I'm don't think she has surpassed Tsunade, but she is more skilled at what she has already shown us. We'll see. :3

[Atheck]

Tsunade's eyes is just a way of shading. Doesn't need to be related to Katsuyu.

Why not? There are already subtle indications of senjutsu chakra impacting their bodies like with Orochimaru.
 

When comparing the eyes of summoner and summoning, it would only make sense if the former is in SM. Tsunade's normal eyes shouldn't be related to a slug.

Then explain how Orochimaru's eyes resemble the design of snake SM and do not make the argument that it was a product of the modifications he made to his body because they were like that when he was a small child.
 

It wouldn't be strange if Tsunade has SM, but I think she should have an imperfect one. The reason she didn't use SM in the fight with Madara may be because SM users need someone to hold the enemy off, but they couldn't afford it against such a strong opponent.

 
By doing this it completely defeats the intention of the new generation surpassing the old with regards to Sakura because she will have a much higher pinnacle of strength to surmount. Outside of the current situation what other opportunity will she receive to exhibit mastered slug senjutsu abilities? Would you honestly be content with a timeskip occurring where in the epilogue there is only a reference provided to Sakura having finally surpassed her teacher? How is this an appropriate management of a character's development? Let alone one of the three main protagonists'. Naruto and Sasuke were able to physically verify their superiority of their respective Sannin some time ago. If Sakura is destined for Slug Sage Mode then the same opportunity should be offered to her. 
 

Not only that, Sakura needs a distinctive ability with which to call her own. The Slug Sage Mode would be the perfect possibility for her. 

 

I wonder who will kick more ass, Tsunade or Sakura in the next chapters? XD I'm don't think she has surpassed Tsunade, but she is more skilled at what she has already shown us. We'll see. :3

 

 

That depends entirely on what Kishi's intentions are for those two characters. Will Sakura be relegated to healing duties for the duration of this battle so Tsunade can have another attempt at Madara or will Tsunade assume the role of healer for Sakura to partake in the fighting once again alongside her allies? Or will they both be compelled to remain back and heal? 

 

Honestly, if it is the latter decision then I will begin to question what purpose the medical division has outside of those with remote healing abilities because they have been completely ineffectual at completing their duties. 

[sushi.]

Why not? There are already subtle indications of senjutsu chakra impacting their bodies like with Orochimaru.
 

Then explain how Orochimaru's eyes resemble the design of snake SM and do not make the argument that it was a product of the modifications he made to his body because they were like that when he was a small child.
 

 
By doing this it completely defeats the intention of the new generation surpassing the old with regards to Sakura because she will have a much higher pinnacle of strength to surmount. Outside of the current situation what other opportunity will she receive to exhibit mastered slug senjutsu abilities? Would you honestly be content with a timeskip occurring where in the epilogue there is only a reference provided to Sakura having finally surpassed her teacher? How is this an appropriate management of a character's development? Let alone one of the three main protagonists'. Naruto and Sasuke were able to physically verify their superiority of their respective Sannin some time ago. If Sakura is destined for Slug Sage Mode then the same opportunity should be offered to her. 
 

Not only that, Sakura needs a distinctive ability with which to call her own. The Slug Sage Mode would be the perfect possibility for her. 

 

 

 

That depends entirely on what Kishi's intentions are for those two characters. Will Sakura be relegated to healing duties for the duration of this battle so Tsunade can have another attempt at Madara or will Tsunade assume the role of healer for Sakura to partake in the fighting once again alongside her allies? Or will they both be compelled to remain back and heal? 

 

Honestly, if it is the latter decision then I will begin to question what purpose the medical division has outside of those with remote healing abilities because they have been completely ineffectual at completing their duties. 

Honestly I didn't think about Orochimaru, but I don't remember if he has SM.

 

Hatching is a very common shading teqhnique, it could be just that. Orochimaru's eyes however, obviously resembles a snake. I'm just saying if this is Kishi's way of making Tsunade similar to Katsuyu, he should've done it more visible. Tsunade's eyes are nut brown, which is considered a dark colour(but not entirely black). On covers her eyes are not designed like that, so I don't think it's more than a shade.

 

The 2nd paragraph, Jiraiya had SM, but didn't complete it. Naruto did. A similar scenario wouldn't hurt and I would like Tsunade to be the introduction of SSM(or Hashi if that is what he has) Sakura needs a jutsu of her own, that I can agree with. I agree with both, but these two contradict eachother DX I guess you can't have both, but then I would be fine with it either way.

 

I don't think Sakura will continue her healing duties unless someone important(Kakashi *coughcough*) gets mortally wounded. She just healed the entire alliance, all the fodder ninjas. Another task is up next for her.

 

The Kages may take on Madara again, I don't see what else they can do and they've got a promise to Naruto to keep. I don't see Sakura doing that, I think they'll be dealing with different things. Everyones eyes seem to be on Obito now.

[megi]

I'm going to have to agree with sushi and say that it is a simple shading technique. Her eyes are lighter than Shikamaru's or Hashi's but darker than Naruto's and Sakura's. Now that I have thought about it for a while, I do see the possibility that Hashirama's sage mode is indeed SSM. I'm still a little iffy on it because I don't understand why it wasn't wasn't referred as SSM at that time. Tsunade's Byakugou technique is possibly a quick substitution for SSM. Who knows! Hopefully it will be explained in the future.

[Atheck]

Honestly I didn't think about Orochimaru, but I don't remember if he has SM.

 
Well he must have some level of understanding of senjutsu since he was able to create seals with just a bite on the necks of people that are capable of drawing in natural energy. 
 

Hatching is a very common shading teqhnique, it could be just that. Orochimaru's eyes however, obviously resembles a snake. I'm just saying if this is Kishi's way of making Tsunade similar to Katsuyu, he should've done it more visible. Tsunade's eyes are nut brown, which is considered a dark colour(but not entirely black). On covers her eyes are not designed like that, so I don't think it's more than a shade.

 
Of course, I myself already refuted that possibility with my initial post. However, it does not detract away from the reality of Orochimaru's eyes having the peculiar sage-like markings and pupils of a snake when he was but a child. 
 

The 2nd paragraph, Jiraiya had SM, but didn't complete it. Naruto did.

 
Both of them were offered a formidable opponent to assess the fruits of their labour on. Already Sakura would likely not experience such an opportunity because regardless of whether she is battling or not her teammates are going to be assuming the brunt of the group's offensive. Still, this is a much more significant conflict that Sakura could display the SSM in than using it on the likes of Juugo, Karin, or Suigetsu in the following arc. The only conceivable methods that could equally compliment a Sage Mode would be if she were to go up against Orochimaru or Sasuke but how long do you honestly believe she would last against the likes of those two? It wouldn't matter as Naruto and the rest of the Konoha 11 would inevitably group up to attack either Taka or Ororchimaru in her defence. 
 

A similar scenario wouldn't hurt and I would like Tsunade to be the introduction of SSM(or Hashi if that is what he has) Sakura needs a jutsu of her own, that I can agree with. I agree with both, but these two contradict eachother DX I guess you can't have both, but then I would be fine with it either way.

 
I was always under the impression that since Tsunade's transformation ability required a perpetual concentration of chakra to flow throughout her body that Sage Mode would be unattainable for her. It would impede her ability to gather the appropriate sage chakra to enter a perfected SM and as a result she created an imperfect variant or alternative in Byakugou. Well, that's just another theory. 
 

I don't think Sakura will continue her healing duties unless someone important(Kakashi *coughcough*) gets mortally wounded. She just healed the entire alliance, all the fodder ninjas. Another task is up next for her.

 
If Sakura was intent on fighting then why did she not reenter the fray after healing everyone in the alliance? Could it be that Kishimoto intends for to remain back as a medic on standby for the remainder of the battle? She did state that she was "all ready for healing" at the end of chapter 633. It was emphasised like that would be her primary function now. To act as a healer once again after a single chapter of being combat effective.

What was the purpose of giving her the means to bypass Tsunade's medical rules if she is only to going exploit those benefits for a single attack?
 

The Kages may take on Madara again, I don't see what else they can do and they've got a promise to Naruto to keep. I don't see Sakura doing that, I think they'll be dealing with different things. Everyones eyes seem to be on Obito now.

So the gist of this statement is that Tsunade will be the one to fight whilst Sakura remains to the side to act as a healer for a collection of fodder that will likely have no significance in the future. Honestly, her enhanced strength and Katsuyu's acid would be much more effective in this battle than anything the generic fighting force can produce. 

 

That's not a promising indication of Sakura having finally surpassed her teacher. 

[六道仙人]

TenTen has the same shaping eyes as that's Tsunade. It's just a coincidence...

[Atheck]

TenTen has the same shaping eyes as that's Tsunade. It's just a coincidence...

 

I already acknowledged that it was just a coincidence twice now. 

[tricksie]

Wow, Atheck — I never thought about it like that. Lining the sage mode users up with the critters they were borrowed from. It would make sense/have a precedent if Sakura's sage mode presents with some deeper change than just the Tsunade's facial markings. (I'm kind of expecting Sakura's to be a little different, unique to her.) 

[Dkey]

Seeing that any sage user needs some time to gather natural energy it means that either Tsunade or Sakura need to stand still for it.

Now I wonder if the forehead seal is a form of bypass.
Then if you could use the seal's chakra for gathering natural energy, then when Tsunade released her seal and could stand still she could've activated SSM. But not one time in the manga did she release the seal unless it was an emergency.

[pumyte]

Seeing that any sage user needs some time to gather natural energy it means that either Tsunade or Sakura need to stand still for it.

 

What about that time when Fukasaku was gathering energy for Jiraiya

[sushi.]

Seeing that any sage user needs some time to gather natural energy it means that either Tsunade or Sakura need to stand still for it.

Now I wonder if the forehead seal is a form of bypass.
Then if you could use the seal's chakra for gathering natural energy, then when Tsunade released her seal and could stand still she could've activated SSM. But not one time in the manga did she release the seal unless it was an emergency.

There's enough people around to keep the enemy at bay, but I feel like Kishi wouldn't introduce a new SM unless it's the user's last resort. There are so many good guys now, lets hope Orochimaru betrays them and tries to control the Edo-Kages minus Hashirama.

[Atheck]

Seeing that any sage user needs some time to gather natural energy it means that either Tsunade or Sakura need to stand still for it.

Now I wonder if the forehead seal is a form of bypass.
Then if you could use the seal's chakra for gathering natural energy, then when Tsunade released her seal and could stand still she could've activated SSM. But not one time in the manga did she release the seal unless it was an emergency.

 

Naruto revealed that he was capable of gathering the necessary sage chakra to enter Sage Mode as he was rushing through the Land of Iron's wilderness to where Sasuke, Kakashi, and Sakura were located. It would seem that a conditioned master of senjutsu  is able to enter SM without the need to meditate albeit they will probably not have a sufficient amount of chakra to maintain the state as Naruto arrived to save Sakura without being in SM. 

 

I was always under the impression that due to the nature of Tsunade's transformation forcing her to allocate chakra and effort to maintain it that she would be unable of acquiring sage chakra to where she can access a proper SM. Sakura has no such concerns because she is already young so it should be possible for her to mould chakra at optimal efficiency. 

Edited by Atheck, 30 June 2013 - 06:58 PM.

[sushi.]

This is only my assumption.

 

I think the more you master Sage chakra, the less time and effort you need to perform it. You'll have less markings too.

 

Jiraiya needed the two old frogs to perform SM, he also needed to stick his hands together for a little while.

 

Naruto surprises me, suddenly he's in SM. XD As Atheck said, he entered SM while travelling. He has mastered it. Hashirama too, I saw no preperations when he entered SM on the battlefield in the recent chapters.

Edited by sushi., 30 June 2013 - 07:06 PM.

[Jake]

This is only my assumption.

 

I think the more you master Sage chakra, the less time and effort you need to perform it. You'll have less markings too.

 

Jiraiya needed the two old frogs to perform SM, he also needed to stick his hands together for a little while.

 

Naruto surprises me, suddenly he's in SM. XD As Atheck said, he entered SM while travelling. He has mastered it. Hashirama too, I saw no preperations when he entered SM on the battlefield in the recent chapters.

 

This was actually explained in the manga when Naruto was leaning it.

 

First: it was explained that Senjutsu Chakra was made by combining you own chakra with Nartual Energy, to become a perfect sage like Naruto you must be able to create a perfect mix of the two (presumably a 1:1 ratio). if you have too much chakra you can't enter Sage Mode while if you have more Natural Energy you (the the case of Toad Sage Mode) start to take on the characteristics of a toad and if you have too much Natural Energy you turn to stone.

 

Second: it was explained that the Naruto's markings were the mark of a perfect sage, while Jiraiya's were so big because he was not a perfect sage.

 

Third: Jiraiya needed to two old toads because it was stated that and later proven with Naruto you cannot gather Senjutsu Chakra while you are moving, while Jiraiya was moving he needed the two toad to gather Natural Energy for him, the only reason that Naruto doesn't use them is because they cannot fuse with him due to Kurama, and thus Naruto had to get around it by having a couple of Shadow Clones gather Natual Energy for him and then dispersing one of them when he need to reenter.

 

Fourth: Naruto has never entered Sage Mode while moving without dispersing a Shadow Clone that was in Sage Mode, remember the last time Naruto use Sage Mode he thanked Neji for buying him enough time, before that when the Jubi was revived Naruto exited Nine-Tailed Chakra Mode sat down stayed still and entered Sage mode, before that when he was fighting the Third Raikage he stood still and entered Sage Mode, even back during the Kage Summit when he was using Sage Mode to find Sakura and Sasuke before he sneaked out he was laying in bed waiting til the coast was clear, it's not that hard to imagine that he use the time to gather Natural Energy.

 

As for Jiraiya, like I said it has been stated that he was not a perfect Sage plus Jiraya himself said that he didn't like using Sage Mode because he said it made him look unattractive to the ladies.

 

And as for the preparation, it was stated that with training you can enter Sage Mode faster and stay in Sage Mode longer, and since Naruto can't use the two toads and with all the training he has done, the only preparation he needs is to stay still.

 

And as for Jiraiya sticking his hands together, that was just a hand seal, if you notice Hashirama was using a hand seal when he used his Sage Mode during his battle with Madara, the reason Naruto doesn't use them is because he fighting style revolves around Shadow Clones which require one quick hand seal, and the Rasengan which requires no hand seals, but if you look in Chapter 634 you can see Naruto using hand seals to mold Wind Chakra for his Rasenshuriken, rememebr Jiraiya's fighting style involved many different jutsus requiring hand seals.