514 replies to this topic

[sushi.]

I've got a bunch of homework so I'll try to make this quick. 18 pages too late! XD

I've gotta say..I would've never let Hinata be in charge of my life. She even throws away her own..not even thinking clearly. She took charge in this chapter like she's used to it. It should've been Shikamaru, or Sakura could've just said "Protect Naruto while I heal him". Because they've done it before, Sakura was forced to in the Pain arc and Shikamaru vowed to never make the same mistake again. I hope Kishi did it because Hinata is a Hyuuga and not a pairing fodder. I'll admit, it's suspiscious that he keeps putting Hinata and Sakura in the same situation..maybe I'm overreacting, but he looves teasing the pairing fandom. I don't like it.

Right now Kishi is skipping important parts in her development. I agree with James that it looks forced. I want to see Hinata struggle, only then can she be strong in my eyes. And I don't want her to think she'll be alright..as long as she has Naruto's ninjaway.

I actually liked the chapter. I haven't enjoyed a Naruto chapter like this in a while. I'll cross my fingers that Kishi hasn't completely lost it.

Edited by sushi., 09 May 2013 - 10:08 PM.

[Verilance]

I am not saying that Hinata should be out front shouting “I deserve to kick Hanabi to the curb and become clan leader” nor that she hasn't used Naruto to bring out the part of her that was to repressed.

The transformation from timid shy girl, who was almost despised by her own father to someone worthy of the “name” Hyuuga has been remarkable.

but to agonize over it as some do, is not worth the time because her story does not, nor ever has ended with Naruto. the same thing with Sasuke, he isn't destined to be with Sakura.

no amount of wheedling by people is going to alter this because that isn't the story Kishimoto is writing.

in my view NaruSaku has almost been Canon since chapter 11 (or 13 I forget which) but I am an opinionated old f@rt so what do I know

[StriderC]

Can I ask you something NaruSaku4life3g? Do you just agree with everybody or do you actually feel a difference of opinion? I mean, well I hate to assume something, but I hardly ever see you disagree with people and it seems like whenever there is this opinion of "Writer vs Fan" you seem to take both sides yet you don't take either at the same time. In one topic you seem to agree that Kishi fuels the fire and sometimes forces or rushes things, but here you make it seem like you agree that it is just fan reaction and not Kishi's fault at all.

So, what do you really feel on this? I mean no offense, but I am not sure where you stand on your views anymore about this topic. I thought you were like me and feel like it is a little bit of both, but now I am not so sure.

Mind clarifying on your views of the entire aspect?

@verliance

I always believe the fans have a really active imagination, but I don't think it is wrong to think that Kishi might fuel these debates at times. Given when we have scenes like the Pein arc confession and chapter 615, you have to wonder what is a by product of what we want to what we want to see and what is Kishi actually giving. It is a hard to tell the difference.

Give the example you gave with Hinata's growth to leadership. There hasn't been much talk about this in the manga at all except in random spurts in part 1 during the tournament and what is happening recently. Everything else literally has been about her and what she wants with Naruto. Even in Hinata's own mind she has not shown any concern for being the leader of her clan. Do you really think what she thought in chapter 573 was about her being a leader to her clan? I don't know how to interpret that scene any way other than "supposed NH development."

I can't really say chapter 615 is "her being stronger for her clan." This chapter yeah, but that chapter I can't find anything clan related in her thoughts. In previous chapters it never seemed to cross her mind or we got no mention of it in her depictions whenever Kishi showed her off. All she ever thought about was Naruto.

If Kishi really wanted to he could have done it and showed Hinata growing to be the leader through out the entire manga if even in little spurts. However, for most of the chapters Hinata has been nothing, but being depicted of fangirling over Naruto. It would not surprise me if this is why the fans see nothing else when something different does happen. I hope my point is coming across okay.

Yeah it is bad that fans only see NH scenes when she is on screen, but I feel this is somewhat Kishi's fault because he hasn't really depicted Hinata doing anything else besides fangirling over Naruto.

Agreed. I too can't see how that equated to her becoming stronger for her clan or anything clan related as you've stated here. In fact, that was solely for Hinata>Naruto. I would believe it had it been something that's been discussed before, but it hasn't. I'm not sure about this, but do we even know where Hinata stands with her father? I mean, I could see her being head now, but it's a bit hard for me to swallow personally considering it's all speculation. Who knows if Kishi is even building her up here to prep her for the position in the future. It's really all up in the air.

As for the second bolded, agreed once again. How can we say he's prepping her for her future when she never even thinks about her future, or the position either. I can't remember her doing so. It's odd that he waits until now to do so. Looking back at chapter 614-15, I STILL can't see it because that moment went from Neji's death to Hinata snapping Naruto back into shape. Had nothing to do with her clan so to say. It's also obvious Hinata is going all out for Naruto so at this time, at the end of her tunnel, I feel like all she sees is Naruto, not her clan, or her being the heir to the throne. None of that. Her panel time doesn't show it, because her development is really solely based around one character. LOL But that's just me.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Can I ask you something NaruSaku4life3g? Do you just agree with everybody or do you actually feel a difference of opinion? I mean, well I hate to assume something, but I hardly ever see you disagree with people and it seems like whenever there is this opinion of "Writer vs Fan" you seem to take both sides yet you don't take either at the same time. In one topic you seem to agree that Kishi fuels the fire and sometimes forces or rushes things, but here you make it seem like you agree that it is just fan reaction and not Kishi's fault at all.

So, what do you really feel on this? I mean no offense, but I am not sure where you stand on your views anymore about this topic. I thought you were like me and feel like it is a little bit of both, but now I am not so sure.

Mind clarifying on your views of the entire aspect?

@verliance

I always believe the fans have a really active imagination, but I don't think it is wrong to think that Kishi might fuel these debates at times. Given when we have scenes like the Pein arc confession and chapter 615, you have to wonder what is a by product of what we want to what we want to see and what is Kishi actually giving. It is a hard to tell the difference.

Give the example you gave with Hinata's growth to leadership. There hasn't been much talk about this in the manga at all except in random spurts in part 1 during the tournament and what is happening recently. Everything else literally has been about her and what she wants with Naruto. Even in Hinata's own mind she has not shown any concern for being the leader of her clan. Do you really think what she thought in chapter 573 was about her being a leader to her clan? I don't know how to interpret that scene any way other than "supposed NH development."

I can't really say chapter 615 is "her being stronger for her clan." This chapter yeah, but that chapter I can't find anything clan related in her thoughts. In previous chapters it never seemed to cross her mind or we got no mention of it in her depictions whenever Kishi showed her off. All she ever thought about was Naruto.

If Kishi really wanted to he could have done it and showed Hinata growing to be the leader through out the entire manga if even in little spurts. However, for most of the chapters Hinata has been nothing, but being depicted of fangirling over Naruto. It would not surprise me if this is why the fans see nothing else when something different does happen. I hope my point is coming across okay.

Yeah it is bad that fans only see NH scenes when she is on screen, but I feel this is somewhat Kishi's fault because he hasn't really depicted Hinata doing anything else besides fangirling over Naruto.

I'll answer you later because at the moment, I'm currently away. To give you a short answer for now, I only agree to those I see that's similar to mine. Otherwise, I'll ignore it, though it's not to say that their post is bad because they're not, just not something I will respond to because I feel like I spent enough time here. Anyway, when you have enough break from Naruto or anything you have invested in, it will sink that you have enough to think over and so I have. Lately I have been thinking over for NH/SS and it only makes it worse to think if it happened, the story lost everything it needs. Also, I still don't think he's a bad writer, but submitted to do many things in one arc. Fine, whatever, but the main plot is what I care for the most and these side characters are only effected to themselves, not overall. This chapter made me remember to wait longer to get details because while Rin's death is the cause of it, it's not like "Oh I can't have her, I hate this world" rather it's "My love shows me how the system works and because of it, it will continue on for everyone."

Anyway, talk too much, talk more later.

[James S Cassidy]

I am not saying that Hinata should be out front shouting “I deserve to kick Hanabi to the curb and become clan leader” nor that she hasn't used Naruto to bring out the part of her that was to repressed.

I am not saying that either.

The transformation from timid shy girl, who was almost despised by her own father to someone worthy of the “name” Hyuuga has been remarkable.

Yeah, but she didn't do this because she realized she needed to be a strong leader for her clan, she did it because she wanted to be strong for Naruto. You can even ask a NH fan and they would probably tell you the same thing. It is not like she was destined to be leader of the clan, met Naruto, and decided to be stronger for her clan and fell in love with him because of his ways. In reality, she is depicted more like she met Naruto, she fell in love with him, and now she wants to be strong for him which inadvertently is making her stronger to be a good leader for her clan.

but to agonize over it as some do, is not worth the time because her story does not, nor ever has ended with Naruto. the same thing with Sasuke, he isn't destined to be with Sakura.

no amount of wheedling by people is going to alter this because that isn't the story Kishimoto is writing.

Wheedling? *grabs dictionary*
verb.
1. to influence or entice by soft words or flattery


Ah okay. I get it, but this really wasn't what I was talking about. My main point is is that I can understand why some see Hinata in this viewpoint because of how Kishimoto has depicted her and failing to show anything else about her. She is always shown to be this shy girl who was first in love with Naruto and hasn't change since then. She has gotten stronger over that time, but the whole point of her being the leader of her clan has always taken a back seat and never really mentioned at all. Not even in a sub-plot. Granted we are made aware of this problem, but it kind of just miraculously solves itself with Hinata not really caring if the problem got resolved or not.

I don't condone the way fans are, but I can definitely say that if Kishi perhaps worked a little harder on Hinata's character to be more than just a pairing fodder, she might have been viewed much differently to all fandoms and while yeah she probably won't end up with Naruto in the end, she seems to still revolve her whole world around this pairing. Just saying.

I'll answer you later because at the moment, I'm currently away. To give you a short answer for now, I only agree to those I see that's similar to mine. Otherwise, I'll ignore it, though it's not to say that their post is bad because they're not, just not something I will respond to because I feel like I spent enough time here. Anyway, when you have enough break from Naruto or anything you have invested in, it will sink that you have enough to think over and so I have. Lately I have been thinking over for NH/SS and it only makes it worse to think if it happened, the story lost everything it needs. Also, I still don't think he's a bad writer, but submitted to do many things in one arc. Fine, whatever, but the main plot is what I care for the most and these side characters are only effected to themselves, not overall. This chapter made me remember to wait longer to get details because while Rin's death is the cause of it, it's not like "Oh I can't have her, I hate this world" rather it's "My love shows me how the system works and because of it, it will continue on for everyone."

Anyway, talk too much, talk more later.

Okay, but that really doesn't answer my question. "I only agree with those I see that's similar to mine." Ummm...yeah, you kind of agree with lots of things and some even contradict to others so I am still not understanding it. This answer is pretty ambiguous to my question.

So, judging by this, I guess you are saying that you agree that fans overreact, but also agree that Kishi doesn't help calm these wars and even at times nearly adds fuel to the fire. Sometimes Kishi rushes the plot and other times fans react to scenes that are actually good, but take it the wrong way. You also think that many fans jump to conclusions on things and need to stop assuming before all the facts are in, but also think that Kishi likes to hold back info way too much which sometimes can be a good thing and sometimes be a bad thing.

Is that right?

Edited by James S Cassidy, 09 May 2013 - 10:52 PM.

[redragon88]

I am not saying that Hinata should be out front shouting “I deserve to kick Hanabi to the curb and become clan leader” nor that she hasn't used Naruto to bring out the part of her that was to repressed.

The transformation from timid shy girl, who was almost despised by her own father to someone worthy of the “name” Hyuuga has been remarkable.

but to agonize over it as some do, is not worth the time because her story does not, nor ever has ended with Naruto. the same thing with Sasuke, he isn't destined to be with Sakura.

no amount of wheedling by people is going to alter this because that isn't the story Kishimoto is writing.

in my view NaruSaku has almost been Canon since chapter 11 (or 13 I forget which) but I am an opinionated old f@rt so what do I know

What happened in that chapter? Is it the one where Sakura says "What's this feeling?" while blushing at Naruto?

I wish I could be as chill as you when it comes to all of this. I think I was pretty chill up until the Summit arc which completely took me off guard in regards to Sakura's development. Here I thought she was steadily falling for Naruto, but then her drama with Sasuke is brought back with a vengeance.

I don't know whether to hate or praise Kishi for making me feel the unexpected with her character at that point.

If I'm honest up until I found the forums Hinata was a non factor of the love subplot in my perspective. In my eyes she was the typical shy girl that drew development from the main character that she loved, and nothing more. I actually loved the chapter in which Hinata confessed when I first saw it, it was unexpected but in a very good way, not to mention that it ended in the epic six-tails cliffhanger.

I never saw Hinata's confession chapter in any sort of threatening way since at that point to me it seemed obvious that Naruto and Sakura were meant to end together. Even after the Summit arc Hinata was irrelevant to me, but after encountering comments of people who actually took the possibility of her and Naruto being together seriously, it left a long standing impression in my mind that maybe Hinata was more than she actually was.

I think the only reason why Hinata's presence has bothered me sometimes is because I let myself be influenced by the opinions of others. I subconsciously created a false image in my head about the true nature of Hinata's role because I gave others opinions more importance than my own. Sadly I think that because of that I couldn't enjoy 615 as much as I think I could've, thanks to my mind being clouded with so much thoughts and opinions about pairings.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Okay, but that really doesn't answer my question. "I only agree with those I see that's similar to mine." Ummm...yeah, you kind of agree with lots of things and some even contradict to others so I am still not understanding it. This answer is pretty ambiguous to my question.

So, judging by this, I guess you are saying that you agree that fans overreact, but also agree that Kishi doesn't help calm these wars and even at times nearly adds fuel to the fire. Sometimes Kishi rushes the plot and other times fand\s react to scenes that are actually good, but take it the wrong way. You also think that many fans jump to conclusions on things and need to stop assuming before all the facts are in, but also think that Kishi likes to hold back info way too much which sometimes can be a good thing and sometimes be a bad thing.

Is that right?

Pretty much. Sorry I couldn't answer it better. Here's my standing:

These side characters get their developments in this arc because this is their last or even last for all, Naruto looking beat up before Sasuke suggests in a way, one more arc. That said they get their developments and closure to leave fans satisfying. That doesn't mean it's about pairings or just pairing. Hinata is a prime example of a character that this place can erupt for everytime she appears. I think it's because she's actually getting screen time and she's been doing Orihime HM arc mode, saying his name in millions of occasion. But when you look at the picture, this battle has been about them, not much on Naruto, which is ironic because the mission is to protect him as he is the key. He's not even a leader, but a power source.

The reason why I want this arc to get on to the real deal is because it's very much focus on side characters and to me, this chapter pretty much saying time to say bye bye to Hinata and others because they are about to get blasted and knowing what happened in 614, this won't last long at all. Ever noticed that the only real progress we had in volume 64 is knocking Madara and Obito? Yes, we have Neji's death, but it's like a side character's shining moment, as much it sounds bad. Now in this volume, Obito reveals his true reason while confronting Kakashi, Madara is thrilled for Hashirama to be back, Juubi entered a new stage with no more back up to stop it, and so on. Naruto never went to weaken stage in volume 64 as if to say "Well, it was side characters' development, so Naruto is not battling yet." Now here we are, let alone Sakura realizing that doing this does more harm to him than good for all.

Side characters don't really get in the way of the overall story, rather just take the pacing in a slow rate. Hinata was just about herself, not Naruto thinking a new feeling. It's a Shikamaru's moment back in Pain Arc, only Hinata's version. Kishi doesn't do any help but maybe because it's a coincidence, I don't truly know. I will reread this arc to see if I think differently. I always said that patience is the key to this. Unfortunately, due to many things to close, the game of waiting has been lasting a very long time. I always see NH moment that only Hinata think of romantic sense as a bonus from Kishi, but it's not moving forward anything. Bottom line, so far I like what I see lately, because it feels like I'm learning something new and moving the plot forward. I know side characters' developments are good to have, it's just it lasted too long and now, the main cast need it. Naruto is given and Kakashi is finally getting more in-depth. You got to give credit for making a normal girl (Sakura) to get in turmoil with a big plot. That said still waiting what's next.

[Verilance]

I am really just ruminating over my own point of view here, I am not trying (at least not purposefully) to insinuate what anyone else is thinking.

as I have stated previously I formed my own opinions about where Kishimoto has been taking the manga long ago and really nothing he has written since has changed my mind.

[redragon88]

I am really just ruminating over my own point of view here, I am not trying (at least not purposefully) to insinuate what anyone else is thinking.

as I have stated previously I formed my own opinions about where Kishimoto has been taking the manga long ago and really nothing he has written since has changed my mind.

Was this comment meant for me? If so, I get what you're saying.

In retrospect I also think Kishi is still strong about making NaruSaku the end pairing. Kishimoto is a good writer in my eyes, what makes a few moments less enjoyable for me is because I let the opinion of other fandoms influence my conclusions instead of standing strong with what I believe. It's really my fault in the end. I'm the one that needs to develop a greater sense of resolution in order to not let others ruin my enjoyment of the series.

You still haven't told me what happened in chapter 11 or 13 that maade you sure that NaruSaku was guaranteed. Is it that scene where Sakura blushes at Naruto and saying "What is this feeling?".

[Verilance]

You still haven't told me what happened in chapter 11 or 13 that maade you sure that NaruSaku was guaranteed. Is it that scene where Sakura blushes at Naruto and saying "What is this feeling?".

yes that is it, Sakura there begins to fall in love with Naruto, the major complication to the resolution of this love being that she already fell in love deeply with Naruto before in Chapter 3 just he was disguised as Sasuke at the time.

my comment was really meant for no one just me discussing my own opinion

[redragon88]

yes that is it, Sakura there begins to fall in love with Naruto, the major complication to the resolution of this love being that she already fell in love deeply with Naruto before in Chapter 3 just he was disguised as Sasuke at the time.

my comment was really meant for no one just me discussing my own opinion

Wait, you're saying that Sakura fell in love with Naruto in chapter 3? Even if it was subconsciously how does that work? I really don't get that perspective. I'm curious.

[Verilance]

Sasuke as Naruto was everything she had dreamed he was except he wasn't nor ever was since it was Naruto

IMO Chapter 3 turned a never to be resolved crush that Sakura had on Sasuke into love, except as stated it wasn't Sasuke it was Naruto

Edited by Verilance, 09 May 2013 - 11:38 PM.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Wait, you're saying that Sakura fell in love with Naruto in chapter 3? Even if it was subconsciously how does that work? I really don't get that perspective. I'm curious.

Me too, i believe it was after the confession and when Naruto come back because there she deeply acknowledged him started deeply caring about him because he was at her side when she needed the most and Naruto was the only one where she could rely on, when they come back the bond got stronger because she being the desire to want to share his burdens as well and start to understand him which trigger the bridge scene where it left obviously that she was in love with him but was blinded because of Sasuke.

I always saw chapter 3 as a comedic moment where the main character states why and how he loves the main heroine.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 09 May 2013 - 11:44 PM.

[StriderC]

yes that is it, Sakura there begins to fall in love with Naruto, the major complication to the resolution of this love being that she already fell in love deeply with Naruto before in Chapter 3 just he was disguised as Sasuke at the time.

my comment was really meant for no one just me discussing my own opinion

Like you, I pretty much fell toward NS since practically the very beginning. Naruto disguising himself as Sasuke and reading her heart really set it up for me, and it was the perfect beginning for NS for sure. Right away, we're shown how Naruto feels about her, and in that chapter, she begins to understand Naruto just a little. From there, it's been an amazing progression.

[redragon88]

Sasuke as Naruto was everything she had dreamed he was except he wasn't nor ever was since it was Naruto

IMO Chapter 3 turned a never to be resolved crush that Sakura had on Sasuke into love, except as stated it wasn't Sasuke it was Naruto

I suppose that makes some sense.

So you're saying that Naruto transformed as Sasuke unintentionally made Sakura believe that Sasuke might someday return her feelings, which made her start loving him for real?

[Verilance]

I suppose that makes some sense.

So you're saying that Naruto transformed as Sasuke unintentionally made Sakura believe that Sasuke might someday return her feelings, which made her start loving him for real?

yes essentially that is true...and began a love triangle worthy of an Adachi manga lol

Edited by Verilance, 09 May 2013 - 11:50 PM.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

I suppose that makes some sense.

So you're saying that Naruto transformed as Sasuke unintentionally made Sakura believe that Sasuke might someday return her feelings, which made her start loving him for real?

Wasnt the missions?
Because she still had a crush on him, believe she fell in love when they started being teammates, Sasuke wasnt just a mere crush she had but her teammate, the same can be said to Naruto too, he had a crush then he started loving her and got even more stronger when they became teammates.
She even states on the confession that she was happy because of team 7.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 09 May 2013 - 11:55 PM.

[StriderC]

Sasuke as Naruto was everything she had dreamed he was except he wasn't nor ever was since it was Naruto

IMO Chapter 3 turned a never to be resolved crush that Sakura had on Sasuke into love, except as stated it wasn't Sasuke it was Naruto

I don't think the love from Sakura to Sasuke started there at all, but I do however feel that the bench scene pushed her feelings for sure, and the blame lies with Naruto. It was a bittersweet scene.

On one hand, he realized why he liked Sakura so much, but on the other hand, he pushed Sakura's feelings for Sasuke even more.

[Transformers03]

The basics of my theory is that Isobu not only gave his chakra to Naruto, but also transferred Rin's memories to him in the hopes that it'll snap Obito out of it. The problem is that Naruto doesn't know whose memories those are. In order for it to resurface, Naruto needs to know what the heck is going on with Kakashi.

Isobu probably realized that Rin is the entire key to this whole mess, so the only way to stop this would be to tell Obito of what Rin's thoughts were like through Naruto.

But I actually prefer the idea of her being revived. Call it lame and overused, but just thinking about the emotional roller coaster that will happen when she's revived, and she finds out the horrible truth about what happened to her boys makes me want it to happen so much. Hell, since Minato is already revived, might as well throw in Hospital scene 2.0.

Rin's anger and disappointment wouldn't only be directed at Obito but to Kakashi as well. She'd be angry that Kakashi is pretty much wasting his life by not letting himself have some happiness. She would be angry at how Kakashi refuses to move on. But most of all, she would be angry at how Kakashi is blaming himself for everything. I bet she'll take a good guess that Kakashi is now blaming himself for this war happening in the first place.

Jeez.... Team Minato's levels of angst is ridiculous, isn't it??

P.S.: It's just me nit-picking, but I would've preferred it if Saiken was the one sealed in her. It'd have made a nice parallel to Sakura's animal motif.

xxRGxx: Again, your posts are boss!! kudos to you I wasn't that bothered with the Hinata stuff here.

Interesting theory. I would also like to see Rin come back, as I feel it will bring home the message of the entire manga again; that we need others to help us succeed. Since team Minato is meant to be parallel to Team 7, having Rin be the missing piece of the dealing with Obito seems appropriate. It is only as a team that they are able to succeed, similar to the notion of how strong Team 7's bond was.

Spiral Zetsu said Minato was away on a mission. And with Kushina's status as a Jinchuuriki, she's probably not allowed to stray far from the village since she's their last-measure weapon. And even if Rin would've known that Kushina would be able to stop her, innocents more would die from the outbreak of their battle. Having two Bijuus fighting smack dab right in the middle of the village is the last thing any village needs.

I actually have the feeling that this mission Minato went on is the mission where he met Ei and Bee. I've got a gut feeling that Kumo was in cahoots with Kiri at the time. Ei and Bee would act as a decoy for Minato, thus preventing him from reaching his students. Kumo and Kiri knew that Minato would be the only person capable of suppressing Isobu.

Yet again an other good theory.

[redragon88]

Obito has gone on and on ever since his unmasking about how Kakashi is a fake because he couldn't keep his promise of protecting Rin. But now in this chapter he goes on to say that Rin is a fake as well since she was never supposed to die.

So I get that Obito was disillusioned with Kakashi because he didn't keep the promise of protecting Rin. It was Obito's greatest desire to see the girl that he loved, for which he risked his life to save, to keep living on, and he entrusted Kakashi to make sure it happened but Kakashi wasn't able to.

I'm starting to think that Obito also became disillusioned with Rin as well. He might feel betrayed by her because despite knowing how much Obito wanted her to live on she instead chose to die, therefore denying him his desire as well.

So I think Obito might somehow feel betrayed by both Kakashi and Rin, so he claims them as fakes since in his mind the real Kakashi and Rin would've honored Obito's last wish.

Maybe Obito felt that Rin valued her love for Kakashi more than his love for her, therefore choosing to die at the hands of who she loves instead of trying to find a way to live for the sake of who loved her. In a way making it seem that Kakashi was more important to her than Obito ever was.

Maybe a way to redeem Obito would be to reveal that Rin was taking Obito's feelings more into consideration than he initially theorized. Maybe her resolution to die was actually inspired by Obito, or something like that. It would be an interesting development. And that way it could make Obito not consider the Rin that died to be a fake anymore, and thus decide to honor her memory somehow.