505 replies to this topic

[narusaku4ver]

@Nate River

The world of fictions loves to play around with the line of morality.

They're able to do so with ease because in fiction there are no real consequences. That's why people allow themselves to have a more relaxed view about events. Take Dragonball, Vegeta is downright a murderous criminal and yet suffered no consequences whatsoever. It was just enough to show him reluctantly be on the good side for the readers to embrace it.

Since a work of fiction doesn't physically harm someone in the real world then people can be more forgiving of what happens there. That's the beauty of fiction, as twisted as it sound. Anything goes.

Please dont compare Vegeta to Sasuke it's a crime.

[tonga1]

DB example is not valid

according kishi naruto history is about bonds( friendships etc), srry but you must be have realistic to write about that.

[kirabook]

No one is really arguing whether or not Sasuke is going to be redeemed. I've said it over and over again it's obvious and there's hardly any debate that he'll be redeemed somehow. But I still think it's crappy given what's he's done and what he continues to do with no remorse.

[merryGOflava]

I just realized something :O

it said Itachi was never attached to anyone in his clan except sasuke, so thats how he didn't turn evil! he let sasuke live!! then to save sasuke from turning evil he tried to get sasuke to hate him and seek revenge on him! but it failed! cause obito told him the truth >:U

....or was that obvious >:o

[T XD]

Guys, every manga has its villain or a character against the protaganist and his/her level of evilness.
In the end, either he/she'll be redeemed and go elsewhere, or redeemed and die, or redeemed and switch to the good side.

Typical in any manga XD

Edited by T XD, 08 February 2013 - 08:31 PM.

[ciardha]

It's interesting looking at this and comparing it to other fandoms. Like Doctor Who for example. The Doctor has commited crimes that are even worse than Madara's, much less Sasuke's, yet the Doctor is called a hero on an older children's show (target audience is 10-15 year olds) and it's also called a family show. To his own associates he's done worse to them than Orochimaru or Sasuke if you look at sheer numbers.

http://io9.com/58984...d-on-doctor-who (just a few prime examples,) Seriously, this is supposed to be a heroic character for children? (And I like Doctor Who, but I sure don't see him as heroic. River Song on the other hand, absolutely heroic.)

Yet River Song is the one that gets called the bad girl, the psychopath- but 99% of her actions have been good, the 1% other had to do with being brainwashed as a child and being triggered to act on that, but yet 5 minutes later she fights and breaks the brainwashing and makes a enormous sacrifice to fix what she had done wrong.

That comparison makes what Kishimoto is doing look rational. At least Sasuke actions aren't called heroic...

Edited by ciardha, 09 February 2013 - 05:12 AM.

[redragon88]

Please dont compare Vegeta to Sasuke it's a crime.

Vegeta is way cooler then what Sasuke could ever hope to be, that's for sure.

But the fact remains that Vegeta's actions were way worse then Sasuke's and yet no one goes up in arms about it.

DB example is not valid

according kishi naruto history is about bonds( friendships etc), srry but you must be have realistic to write about that.

No, no you don't. That's the point of fiction.

DB is completely valid. All fiction is valid as an example. You don't get to pick and choose what fictional work is allowed to be unrealistic. All fiction has the luxury to be like that.

[Nate River]

@Nate River

The world of fictions loves to play around with the line of morality.

They're able to do so with ease because in fiction there are no real consequences. That's why people allow themselves to have a more relaxed view about events. Take Dragonball, Vegeta is downright a murderous criminal and yet suffered no consequences whatsoever. It was just enough to show him reluctantly be on the good side for the readers to embrace it.

Since a work of fiction doesn't physically harm someone in the real world then people can be more forgiving of what happens there. That's the beauty of fiction, as twisted as it sound. Anything goes.

This is missing my point.

I'm not saying that I would refuse to accept Sasuke's ultimate redemption. Since I do not know the method it will come about, I can't say what I will think of it. All I mean is that it is the primary basis for me not liking SK. You seem to be saying that illegimate, I do not think so.

Like I said, I would be okay with forgiving him, but not starting a family with him.

[merryGOflava]

Vegeta is way cooler then what Sasuke could ever hope to be, that's for sure.

But the fact remains that Vegeta's actions were way worse then Sasuke's and yet no one goes up in arms about it.

I know right!? what the heck?? sasuke hasn't even killed anyone "good"!! (important good)

and vegeta...don't get me started!!! XD

[Weltall]

Vegeta is way cooler then what Sasuke could ever hope to be, that's for sure.

But the fact remains that Vegeta's actions were way worse then Sasuke's and yet no one goes up in arms about it.


No, no you don't. That's the point of fiction.

DB is completely valid. All fiction is valid as an example. You don't get to pick and choose what fictional work is allowed to be unrealistic. All fiction has the luxury to be like that.

We were never supposed to feel sorry for Vegeta, whereas Sasuke is a poor victim of the ninja system and his genetic makeup
No offense but I don't see how you can compare between db and Naruto, db never tried to convey any message it was all about fights, Naruto is trying to convey a moral message altough it fail at that.

[merryGOflava]

We were never supposed to feel sorry for Vegeta, whereas Sasuke is a poor victim of the ninja system and his genetic makeup
No offense but I don't see how you can compare between db and Naruto, db never tried to convey any message it was all about fights, Naruto is trying to convey a moral message altough it fail at that.

what about gaara? he was just as bad as sasuke. (threatening and killing people)

Edited by merryGOflava, 08 February 2013 - 09:27 PM.

[Weltall]

what about gaara? he was just as bad as sasuke. (threatening and killing people)

The context is entirely different, Gaara was hated and rejected by everyone his father included who tried to kill him multiple times but as soon as someone offered him a new chance and a new path he gladly accepted them ; Gaara never had the choice and when he had he took it without hesitating, Sasuke had many chances he rejected them all.

[narusaku4ver]

It's interesting looking at this and comparing it to other fandoms. Like Doctor Who for example. The Doctor has commited crimes that are even worse than Madara's, much less Sasuke's, yet the Doctor is called a hero on an older children's show (target audience is 10-15 year olds) and it's also called a family show. To his own associates he's done worse to them than Orochimaru or Sasuke if you look at sheer numbers.

Yet River Song is the one that gets called the bad girl, but 99% of her actions have been good, the 1% other had to do with being brainwashed as a child and being triggered to act on that, but yet 5 minutes later she fights and breaks the brainwashing and makes a enormous sacrifice to fix what she had done wrong.

That comparison makes what Kishimoto is doing look rational. At least Sasuke actions aren't called heroic...

But looking at Naruto all the other villain paid a price when they were redeemed, Zabuza sacrificed himself, Nagato, Sasori, and much more, even Obito will pay too what i'm thinking if is that Sasuke will pay like the others?
Or he will get redeemed without any consequences, and continue getting everything on a golden plate and end up being viewed as the greatest victim of the series?

what about gaara? he was just as bad as sasuke. (threatening and killing people)

Sasuke was loved and had everything, he rejected and betrayed the people who cared for him, different from Gaara who was hated and suffered from discrimination, totally different than what Kishi is trying to force the readers to accept that the uchihas were discriminated.
Despite gaara being rewarded he worked hard to prove himself to the villagers.

Edited by narusaku4ver, 08 February 2013 - 10:06 PM.

[merryGOflava]

The context is entirely different, Gaara was hated and rejected by everyone his father included who tried to kill him multiple times but as soon as someone offered him a new chance and a new path he gladly accepted them ; Gaara never had the choice and when he had he took it without hesitating, Sasuke had many chances he rejected them all.

how does that make gaara better??....... sasuke never wanted to kill anyone when he left the village, he just wanted itachi.

it's recently that he was told that the his own village had his clan killed.

>:T i mean sure gaara was rejected.....but it's not like sasuke went out on a killing spree after leaving the village.

and of course sasuke doesn't want naruto's help!! (or the village) XD would you? i mean a town kills your neighborhood...why would anyone want to go back!!? it's gonna take some time and most importantly TRUST! cause sasuke seems to think he can't. (I wouldn't either)


both had it pretty bad..........gaara and sasuke both shouldn't have killed innocent ninjas (....samurai XD) but just like gaara was unstable so his sasuke....as we just figured out. the Uchiha's are an emotionally unstable clan...so it's not all of sasuke's fault.

[narusaku4ver]

how does that make gaara better??....... sasuke never wanted to kill anyone when he left the village, he just wanted itachi.

it's recently that he was told that the his own village had his clan killed.

>:T i mean sure gaara was rejected.....but it's not like sasuke went out on a killing spree after leaving the village.

and of course sasuke doesn't want naruto's help!! (or the village) XD would you? i mean a town kills your neighborhood...why would anyone want to go back!!? it's gonna take some time and most importantly TRUST! cause sasuke seems to think he can't. (I wouldn't either)


both had it pretty bad..........gaara and sasuke both shouldn't have killed innocent ninjas (....samurai XD) but just like gaara was unstable so his sasuke....as we just figured out. the Uchiha's are an emotionally unstable clan...so it's not all of sasuke's fault.

I dont understand what you're tyring to say, first the forest of death, he could kill those ninjas if he want even shino and kiba kill some other ninjas, about Gaara he just wanted to be recognized but his way was different than Naruto, Naruto opened his eyes and most of the people he kill when he was child was about him trying to defend himself from the murder attempets.
He suffered way more than Sasuke, but still paid a price he went on making amends with his brothers and the villages and make his way to become hokage and even sacrificed his life to protect the village, he got ressurrected later but still he sacrficed his life to the village who treated him like trash.
About Sasuke, he betrayed the people who cared for him, he did a lot of bad things and kill those samurais and ninjas from kumogakure, he ressurrected orochimaru, attacked the kages, and helped orochimaru with his "experiments".
IF he gets redeemed i do hope he does pay a price too like the other villains instead of everything is okay and fine.

[T XD]

When Sasuke is redeemed and if he still alive, he'll sure pay a price for his vicious actions. He won't be like still alive and walk peacefully ahead with the sun going down !

Staying alive, he'll pay a price in a way or another. It has many different ways for it.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Like I said, banishment is a punishable act for Sasuke and I can see that happening. It's to say "You must be gone from the sight of the world or else you'll be gone."

[merryGOflava]

I dont understand what you're tyring to say, first the forest of death, he could kill those ninjas if he want even shino and kiba kill some other ninjas, about Gaara he just wanted to be recognized but his way was different than Naruto, Naruto opened his eyes and most of the people he kill when he was child was about him trying to defend himself from the murder attempets.
He suffered way more than Sasuke, but still paid a price he went on making amends with his brothers and the villages and make his way to become hokage and even sacrificed his life to protect the village, he got ressurrected later but still he sacrficed his life to the village who treated him like trash.
About Sasuke, he betrayed the people who cared for him, he did a lot of bad things and kill those samurais and ninjas from kumogakure, he ressurrected orochimaru, attacked the kages, and helped orochimaru with his "experiments".
IF he gets redeemed i do hope he does pay a price too like the other villains instead of everything is okay and fine.

so? gaara was part of the take down konoha plan, killed some nameless ninja contestants, almost killed lee twice and threatened naruto and shikamaru and almost killed sakura.........and sasuke XD

sasuke almost killed sakura, karin......(he was never close to killing the kages...come on) killed danzo, deidara, itachi and a few nameless samurai

they have different situations but they both seem to be in the same boat. THEY KILLED!! XD it doesn't matter whether gaara had a hard life or whether sasuke felt betrayed by his brother and his village....they both killed at least ONE innocent person

they also both didn't kill anyone important.
and thats why gaara was able to be redeemed, do you think he would have been redeemable if he killed sakura?? do you think naruto would have accepted him?? NOWAY!

sasuke hasn't killed anyone important or good either and THATS why...just like gaara he has just a great a chance to be redeemed

cause let's face it, THREATENING does not equal KILLING

so what i'm saying is....SASUKE IS LIKE GAARA AND HE DOES HAVE A CHANCE TO BE REDEEMED. I don't care if sasuke was being emo when he left the village and had it good, that doesn't matter what matters is what evil he's done and if he has a chance to be saved.

here let me put a smiley face to show i'm not getting worked up ----->

Edited by merryGOflava, 08 February 2013 - 10:33 PM.

[T XD]

Like I said, banishment is a punishable act for Sasuke and I can see that happening. It's to say "You must be gone from the sight of the world or else you'll be gone."

Yup. That's one of the many different ways XD

Edited by T XD, 08 February 2013 - 10:34 PM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Yup. That's one of the many different ways XD

I hope that's the case because all happy ending will leave a bad taste. Actually, he just need to face a consequence, so I can be like "Ok, that's fair." To me, banishment is the right choice and it seems the best thing you can get. Besides, Sasuke is used to it, so why not go on. In matter of fact, he could do what Orochimaru did, only for good. Not experimenting part, but to have a village. I'm pretty sure no one has a satellite to track him.

About Gaara, well you got to remember, the village was the one that allowed Gaara to do his things, which is why he didn't face real consequences. Granted, he killed people but the village was ok, since he was seen as a weapon. Plus, ninja do kill people, don't forget. As for Sasuke, he's doing for himself. He's not under orders and if he is, it's under terrorism, not legit. It's a threat to the world, not to one nation. Sand and Leaf was an act of war (like world war), while Sasuke and all was an act of war on terrorism. After it all ends, no one is backing up Sasuke and one person won't do.