406 replies to this topic

[Shadow Wolf]

Haha I think there was even an anime filler about that. But yeah, that's another reason to spare everyone the trouble and not make him Hokage.

I think that would be a good comical moment like how the characters will think about carving his face with his mask I can imagine the sweat drops on their head XD

Yeah, I kinda remember an episode like that *goes to search*

.....found it: Episode 219: "Kakashi Hatake, the Hokage" (link)

Anyway, to stay on topic...

Seeing Tsunade like that was quite an impact for me. The only other moment with a similar impact was Asuma's death.

Not sure if its a dark joke or not... --Click here to view--

But I hope that she can pull herself togeher. I think she could do a few more things before dying.

[Codus N]

I don't really read fan fiction, mainly because it seems at times to be a little bit............fanservicey. Like everything in those stories are just written so that a certain fan's fantasy can come to life in their own head. Nothing against it (though I do get angry that I hear people ship a certain pairing because it produces better fan fiction), and sometimes there are good stories to be found (or simply stories that other people want to see happen). But I generally want them the characters they are "burrowing" to act like their canon selves. Like I've written a Doctor Who fan fiction (I only finished half of it, and never uploaded it), but I generally wrote it with the idea that the characters should act the way they would in the series.

With that said, I only read the last few lines of that fan fiction, and it was actually kind of good. While the characters act a little off (like Obito saying Rin's name with a chan at the end, like how Naruto says Sakura's name, even though he never said her name like that in the Gaiden chapters), there was something........sweet about how it ended. I still don't if I want to read the whole thing, as reading fan fiction often makes me feel kind of uncomfortable. Still, I understand what you mean how you see that will happen in the series, and if any of you like a good fan fic........then read that and tell me about.........sorry kind.....of tired.............................

Yeah, that was actually my point for posting that. It's basically what I think would be the best ending for Obito's redemption. Naruto might help a little, but it's ultimately Rin who'll redeem him.

[candycane-chan]

I can see that happening
Anyway Now that we'll see his flashbacks I hope we could finally find out how rin died exactly

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

@codus - lol about Kakashi having a lot of growing up to do too. So true.

The thing about Tsunade possibly dying now and handing Naruto the Hokage-ship is that is undermines the whole idea that him being Hokage was a "prize" for all his hard work. I think the role of Hokage will come at the very end. Not before he wins back Sasuke and before he declares his love for Sakura.

The other thing about her dying and handing Naruto the job, is that it then becomes a sad/heartwrenching thing. Sort of like the VP stepping up after the assasination of a president. It's not a celebratory hand-off. Not like Naruto has envisioned since he was a kid. If he were to inherit the hokage-dom on a battlefield, in the midst of a war, there would certainly be no time for traipsing after Sasuke. Not even later, after he's back in Konoha. His first responsibilty would be to his village. (And he'd have hell of a lot more to answer for if he pardons Sasuke while he's the head of a nation.)

It would be as anticlimactic as if Naruto had inherited the Hokage-ship after Pain's attack. No glory, but a lot of hard depressing work. And certainly no room for Sasuke.

So yeah, I keep going back to the fact that for Naruto to accomplish the things he wants to — save Sasuke, confess to Sakura, become Hokage — it will have to be in that certain order. If he's not willing to tell Sakura his feelings when he "can't even keep a promise" about bringing Sasuke home, how could he accept being Hokage before he saves Sasuke?

if sasuke kill kakashi do you think that naruto can still keep that promise, if sasuke new objetive is to destroy or conquer the world with the bijuu and he needs to kill naruto he will still try to keep that promise?
i dont think so.

naruto's promise has a limit and about naruto going to confess...
sakura already knows that naruto loves her, if he confess i doubt that she will have reject him, she's too fond of him and i dont think she will break his heart.

Edited by dovahkiin, 15 September 2012 - 10:27 AM.

[Nefertieh]

if sasuke kill kakashi do you think that naruto can still keep that promise, if sasuke new objetive is to destroy or conquer the world with the bijuu and he needs to kill naruto he will still try to keep that promise?
i dont think so.

naruto's promise has a limit and about naruto going to confess...
sakura already knows that naruto loves her, if he confess i doubt that she will have reject him, she's too fond of him and i dont think she will break his heart.

Naruto has already made a deal with Sasuke; Sasuke agreed he will kill Naruto before he would go after everyone else.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Naruto has already made a deal with Sasuke; Sasuke agreed he will kill Naruto before he would go after everyone else.

do you really think that is possible to trust someome that change his mind so quickly, he will kill if they meddle with him first.

[candycane-chan]

sasuke and killing?
It seems as if he can't decide who to kill
He isn't the kind of person that would stick to his word ,since he doesnt mind back stabbing,and keeps changing his goals,so we don't know what he wants to do now,or atleast I don't,I don't even have an idea about that scroll or where they're heading with orichimaru,or why the alliance is taking so much time ,or if tsunade would die?
now that I think abouy it,I don't know alot of things

well atleast I know somebody is happy.............orichimaru he's close to the body he likes so much

[Nefertieh]

do you really think that is possible to trust someome that change his mind so quickly, he will kill if they meddle with him first.

I don't think Sasuke would go back on his word, because his pride wouldn't allow it.

[candycane-chan]

I don't think Sasuke would go back on his word, because his pride wouldn't allow it.

It depends on what kind of information he'll find out with the snake

[T XD]

It depends on what kind of information he'll find out with the snake

Either way, Sasuke could not kill the others before he fights Naruto and wherever the others are, Naruto is with them or near them like we saw many times before. I can say that based on the story line.

Edited by T XD, 15 September 2012 - 07:19 PM.

[candycane-chan]

Either way, Sasuke could not kill the others before he fights Naruto and wherever the others are, Naruto is with them or near them like we saw many times before. I can say that based on the story line.

by them do you mean the alliance or the villagers because it just occured to me that sasuke might stumble upon them

Edited by candycane-chan, 15 September 2012 - 07:22 PM.

[KnS]

I'm of two minds about what will happen with the Hokage role if Tsunade dies.

If I remember correctly, a Kage is chosen by the village council and okayed by the daimyo. It's not Tsunade's decision -- or a strictly military decision -- who replaces her, and I don't remember it ever being a literal battlefield promotion. Even when Kakashi thought he was going to become Hokage before (during Tsunade's coma), he had to return from the field first and meet with the elders, etc., before it was official. So that seems like the precedent that's been set, which might indicate no Hokage will be chosen immediately.

On the other hand, Kishimoto may decide it must fall to someone to act in that role mid-war and if he does, I think it has to be Kakashi because he was selected and technically promoted before. The formal process was already undertaken, and he was accepted as the logical replacement for Tsunade.

And really, there's so much potential in that decision, in terms of the conflict between Kakashi and Obito. I mean, we know it was one of Obito's youthful ambitions to become Hokage. Imagine if he somehow witnesses Kakashi's field promotion to that rank? Especially if he were to also know that Rin had loved Kakashi as well? *shudder*

We know Kakashi doesn't want to be Hokage and perhaps, if he survives, he would officially cede the position to Naruto later as confirmation of Kakashi's stated opinion that Naruto has surpassed him. And in my view Kakashi's death is not necessary for Naruto to obtain personal growth; that kind of hero's loss was achieved through Jiraiya's death.

For what it's worth, Naruto's growth trajectory reminds me a lot of Harry Potter's:

Harry's parents die protecting him --> Sirius Black, closest link to his parents dies --> Dumbledore, authority figure dies --> leaving Harry to face Voldemort with a few adults and his rookie friends.

Naruto's parents die protecting him --> Jiraiya, closest link to his parents dies --> Tsunade, authority figure dies (?) --> leaving Naruto to face Madara/Tobi/Sasuke with a few adults and his rookie friends.

It's a lot like Frodo's progression too, for that matter. Not that Kishimoto will do exactly what Rowling or Tolkien did, it simply illustrates a common "hero's path" in literature. However, I'm reasonably confident Kishimoto will not exact as much collateral damage as Rowling. I just don't see him killing off half his characters in the final battle, including Kakashi. But I have been wrong before....

Regardless of what Kishimoto is doing with Kakashi within this arc, I don't see Naruto becoming Hokage right now for a variety of reasons -- some logical constraints within the story, and some implied authorial intent on Kishimoto's part.

A lot of it depends on the importance of some of the deeper themes in the story. If Naruto is truly a messianic hero who will unite all the clans and all the lands into a more harmonious, homogeneous culture -- if Naruto were to, say, end up the reincarnation of the Rikudo Sennin and jinchuriki of the Ten Tails -- would the shinobi world still need Kage? Maybe Naruto will never become Hokage because he'll already be too far above it.

Just my rambling thoughts for the day.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

I'm of two minds about what will happen with the Hokage role if Tsunade dies.

If I remember correctly, a Kage is chosen by the village council and okayed by the daimyo. It's not Tsunade's decision -- or a strictly military decision -- who replaces her, and I don't remember it ever being a literal battlefield promotion. Even when Kakashi thought he was going to become Hokage before (during Tsunade's coma), he had to return from the field first and meet with the elders, etc., before it was official. So that seems like the precedent that's been set, which might indicate no Hokage will be chosen immediately.

On the other hand, Kishimoto may decide it must fall to someone to act in that role mid-war and if he does, I think it has to be Kakashi because he was selected and technically promoted before. The formal process was already undertaken, and he was accepted as the logical replacement for Tsunade.

And really, there's so much potential in that decision, in terms of the conflict between Kakashi and Obito. I mean, we know it was one of Obito's youthful ambitions to become Hokage. Imagine if he somehow witnesses Kakashi's field promotion to that rank? Especially if he were to also know that Rin had loved Kakashi as well? *shudder*

We know Kakashi doesn't want to be Hokage and perhaps, if he survives, he would officially cede the position to Naruto later as confirmation of Kakashi's stated opinion that Naruto has surpassed him. And in my view Kakashi's death is not necessary for Naruto to obtain personal growth; that kind of hero's loss was achieved through Jiraiya's death.

For what it's worth, Naruto's growth trajectory reminds me a lot of Harry Potter's:

Harry's parents die protecting him --> Sirius Black, closest link to his parents dies --> Dumbledore, authority figure dies --> leaving Harry to face Voldemort with a few adults and his rookie friends.

Naruto's parents die protecting him --> Jiraiya, closest link to his parents dies --> Tsunade, authority figure dies (?) --> leaving Naruto to face Madara/Tobi/Sasuke with a few adults and his rookie friends.

It's a lot like Frodo's progression too, for that matter. Not that Kishimoto will do exactly what Rowling or Tolkien did, it simply illustrates a common "hero's path" in literature. However, I'm reasonably confident Kishimoto will not exact as much collateral damage as Rowling. I just don't see him killing off half his characters in the final battle, including Kakashi. But I have been wrong before....

Regardless of what Kishimoto is doing with Kakashi within this arc, I don't see Naruto becoming Hokage right now for a variety of reasons -- some logical constraints within the story, and some implied authorial intent on Kishimoto's part.

A lot of it depends on the importance of some of the deeper themes in the story. If Naruto is truly a messianic hero who will unite all the clans and all the lands into a more harmonious, homogeneous culture -- if Naruto were to, say, end up the reincarnation of the Rikudo Sennin and jinchuriki of the Ten Tails -- would the shinobi world still need Kage? Maybe Naruto will never become Hokage because he'll already be too far above it.

Just my rambling thoughts for the day.

1-Srsly dont ever compare harry potter with naruto.

2-Kakashi was made hokage but it was against his decision, naruto could not become a hokage because he wasnt fully matured.

3- Obito knew that rin loved kakashi he witnessed that, and his shown he training harder to surpass kakashi and show that he was better than him.

4-Obito already give up his ambitions to live in another "reality" he suffered so much because of rin's death and the wars that he cant stand reality itself that why he dont blame kakashi or has desire of revenge, madara offered him to live on a world that he always wanted (Road to Ninja no jutsu).

Edited by dovahkiin, 15 September 2012 - 07:38 PM.

[PhenixElite]

A lot of it depends on the importance of some of the deeper themes in the story. If Naruto is truly a messianic hero who will unite all the clans and all the lands into a more harmonious, homogeneous culture -- if Naruto were to, say, end up the reincarnation of the Rikudo Sennin and jinchuriki of the Ten Tails -- would the shinobi world still need Kage? Maybe Naruto will never become Hokage because he'll already be too far above it.

Just my rambling thoughts for the day.

That was also always my point of view

[T XD]

by them do you mean the alliance or the villagers because it just occured to me that sasuke might stumble upon them

I meant the alliance and it applies too to the villagers as well.
Sasuke can't stumble upon them cause he's with Orochimaru and even if he's done with his journey with him, he can't stumble upon them cause they are with Naruto by then or the fight is over and they are back in the village.

1-Srsly dont ever compare harry potter with naruto.

2-Kakashi was made hokage but it was against his decision, naruto could not become a hokage because he wasnt fully matured.

3- Obito knew that rin loved kakashi he witnessed that, and his shown he training harder to surpass kakashi and show that he was better than him.

4-Obito already give up his ambitions to live in another "reality" he suffered so much because of rin's death and the wars that he cant stand reality itself that why he dont blame kakashi or has desire of revenge, madara offered him to live on a world that he always wanted (Road to Ninja no jutsu).

Naruto wasn't, back at the time, considered to be a person who can be a hokage temporarily from the elders. Plus, Obito won't be in his "reality" world anymore cause he's already remembering his past and the presence of Kakashi is clearly affecting him which we all know, the world that he thinks of will be shuttered in the end.

Edited by T XD, 15 September 2012 - 08:07 PM.

[KnS]

1-Srsly dont ever compare harry potter with naruto.

Seriously, rudeness is really unnecessary. You don't like Harry Potter? Okay. That has no bearing on the willingness of someone else to compare or contrast themes between literary works from different cultures and languages; it's a common practice for people interested in literature. So with all due respect, I will continue to compare whatever I think is appropriate and relevant.

3- Obito knew that rin loved kakashi he witnessed that, and his shown he training harder to surpass kakashi and show that he was better than him.

I was speaking more specifically of the confirmation of Rin's feelings for Kakashi by her willingness to confess them clearly within minutes of Obito's "death." If Obito heard what she said, or came to realize it later, the psychological impact of knowing she chose the moment of his death to confess to Kakashi was likely to be a lot more damaging than knowing she had a one-sided crush that Obito might have been able to overcome.

That was also always my point of view

So many people seem to fixate on the Hokage thing, though. I understand why, but it seems plausible there is another option for Naruto's future role.

Naruto wasn't, back at the time, considered to be a person who can be a hokage temporarily from the elders. Plus, Obito won't be in his "reality" world anymore cause he's already remembering his past and the presence of Kakashi is clearly affecting him which we all know, the world that he thinks of will be shuttered in the end.

Yes, which is what I was getting at when I said that if Kakashi were to become Hokage in the event of Tsunade's death, how could that not affect the dynamic between Obito and Kakashi?

Edited by KnS, 15 September 2012 - 09:54 PM.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Naruto wasn't, back at the time, considered to be a person who can be a hokage temporarily from the elders. Plus, Obito won't be in his "reality" world anymore cause he's already remembering his past and the presence of Kakashi is clearly affecting him which we all know, the world that he thinks of will be shuttered in the end.

did you know that those flashbacks are not the characters thinking about their past, it's just kishimoto showing their background.

I was speaking more specifically of the confirmation of Rin's feelings for Kakashi by her willingness to confess them clearly within minutes of Obito's "death." If Obito heard what she said, or came to realize it later, the psychological impact of knowing she chose the moment of his death to confess to Kakashi was likely to be a lot more damaging than knowing she had a one-sided crush that Obito might have been able to overcome.

It was kakashi who started it, saying that she really was important to him and obito loved her then she replied, she did not choose, kakashi tells her the truth because she was blind.
that why later it appears her looking at the stars thinking about obito.

Edited by dovahkiin, 15 September 2012 - 09:20 PM.

[KnS]

did you know that those flashbacks are not the characters thinking about their past, it's just kishimoto showing their background.

I get what you're saying, but I don't think it's as simple as that. It is Kishimoto showing us the past, but it is also to give readers context as to what the characters are feeling and how they got to that point in the story. I agree with T XD that the flashbacks imply the current state of mind of the characters as well, at least in terms of motivation.

It was kakashi who started it, saying that she really was important to him and obito loved her then she replied, she did not choose, kakashi tells her the truth because she was blind.
that why later it appears her looking at the stars thinking about obito.

I agree with you -- Kakashi did tell her the truth because she was blind. However, Rin did choose that moment to confess. She could have remained silent and simply thought about her feelings for Kakashi, but she chose to say them. It's clear why she did it, but in terms of the psychological impact to Obito -- if he heard it or whatever -- would be the same. And as for Rin looking at the stars and thinking of Obito later, how would that have changed anything if Obito didn't know about it? The last thing he might have known or heard was Rin wanting to confess to Kakashi even though Obito had supposedly died loving her.

Truly, all this conjecture may be moot. We have yet to get the real story on what happened -- how Obito was saved, what happened to him after that, what happened to Rin, how Kakashi failed, how Obito knows about any of it (did he see what happened? hear about it from Madara? does he even know the real truth?), what the deal is with his arm, how he's being influenced by it or Madara or other, etc. We could guess until the cows come home and not get it right.

Edited by KnS, 15 September 2012 - 10:01 PM.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

I get what you're saying, but I don't think it's as simple as that. It is Kishimoto showing us the past, but it is also to give readers context as to what the characters are feeling and how they got to that point in the story. I agree with T XD that the flashbacks imply the current state of mind of the characters as well, at least in terms of motivation.



I agree with you -- Kakashi did tell her the truth because she was blind. However, Rin did choose that moment to confess. She could have remained silent and simply thought about her feelings for Kakashi, but she chose to say them. It's clear why she did it, but in terms of the psychological impact to Obito -- if he heard it or whatever -- would be the same. And as for Rin looking at the stars and thinking of Obito later, how would that have changed anything if Obito didn't know about it? The last thing he might have known or heard was Rin wanting to confess to Kakashi even though Obito had supposedly died loving her.

Truly, all this conjecture may be moot. We have yet to get the real story on what happened -- how Obito was saved, what happened to him after that, what happened to Rin, how Kakashi failed, how Obito knows about any of it (did he see what happened? hear about it from Madara? does he even know the real truth?), what the deal is with his arm, how he's being influenced by it or Madara or other, etc. We could guess until the cows come home and not get it right.

the problem is in obito's memory he thought he was dead then he awakened later on a bed, he did not see that scene so the impact is 0.

[KnS]

the problem is in obito's memory he thought he was dead then he awakened later on a bed, he did not see that scene so the impact is 0.

I don't think I'm explaining myself very well.

Kakashi and Rin left Obito before the final avalanche, and they're in a tree some distance away when they have the conversation about Obito's love for Rin and she attempts to confess her feelings for Kakashi. So I agree it's highly unlikely Obito could have heard Rin's confession at that time, and therefore the psychological impact would have been zero at that time.

I was attempting to suggest the possibility that someone else could have overheard Kakashi and Rin's conversation and perhaps told Obito later -- in other words, that Obito heard OF it -- and of the timing of her confession. Or perhaps he witnessed something similar at a later date -- before, during, or after Rin's death, maybe. We don't know what Obito knows, how he knows it, or how long he has known it.

My point, such as it is, is that if someone has been manipulating Obito's feelings and motivation, that's the kind of thing he might have been told to incite disillusionment. I'm not saying it's what did happen, I'm saying that IF it happened that could make Kakashi also becoming Hokage the bitter icing on Obito's depression cake.

About the thinking he was dead and waking up on the bed part, I have to say I love what Kishimoto did.

cut for images --Click here to view--

The foreshadowing through Kakashi's new eye in #244:



And where that thread was picked it up in #601:

It makes me rethink who found Obito. Like Madara was simply in the purgatory-like realm already -- the "crevasse between your world and the next" -- waiting for something else to happen.

Edited by KnS, 16 September 2012 - 12:06 AM.