54213 replies to this topic

[megi]

Yes it's true SasuSaku is really huge in Japan. There are so many pairing favorites in the series. What I was trying to say is that they ship any pair they want, but they mostly agree NaruSaku is Kishi's endgame.

 

The thing about SasuSaku is that they do not have anything to grab a hold on to, and in my opinion, they know that. I tried to balance some arguments and find some from a SasuSaku standpoint that had some ground, but it was never brought up. They just like the pairing ^^ 

 

How do the Japanese fans feel about the current pairing situation? Is NS set in stone? NH possible? etc

 

Personally I think there are some things we have left, nothing is canon before Naruto accepts one of the confessions/makes a confession of his own without being rejected etc. Canon basically means the pairing is official, which is when they are in a relationship or they kiss.

 

I'm just curious as to how they're dealing with it, because the western pairing fans are as active as ever.

 

Is NS set in stone? Most people I've come across believe that the romantic route is definitely towards Naruto and Sakura. However, they expect more development, especially on Sakura's side.

What is really interesting that I've seen a couple of times is that people are waiting for Sakura to confess another time. It was brought up that she could not reach Sasuke through her heart. They anticipate that Sakura will try again to reveal her feelings to Naruto, and that they hope Naruto will listen.

 

Is NH possible? Now, I would like to say yes, because I see the argument that NH had a lot of momentum in 615. The question is "Will Hinata become a main character to Naruto?" If Hinata is developed that way, NH is possible. The problem is Hinata has not taken that role. Sakura seized it in 631.

 

Which is why the part about Sakura's confession is analyzed - Sakura is the closest to Naruto, she understands him, as seen throughout the series and also in 631. However, Sakura missed Naruto's feelings during her confession. That is why the Japanese anticipate that Sakura confesses again.

[KnS]

What is brought up many times is the quote along the line of "A woman's heart changes like the autumn sky". Taking into consideration Tsunade's and Kushina's hearts. Tsunade had come to love Jiraiya when at first she did not, Kushina's heart changes too for Minato. Slowly unknown to herself, Naruto has become close to Sakura's heart and is truly an important person to her.

 

What's interesting (to me, at least) about the three main relationship parallels is how each one seems to highlight a specific element of foreshadowing for NS.  Consider:

Kushina. There's no evidence that she loved another before Minato, but it is clear that her initial impression of Minato was not favorable.  He won her over with his strength, bravery, and because he was genuinely attracted to the one thing about her appearance that she liked the least.  They fell in love and were happy, but didn't get much time together because their lives were cut short.

Rin. There's no explicit confirmation that Rin's feelings would have transferred from Kakashi to Obito, but it is at least hinted that it was a possibility.  Rin and Obito were separated early on, preventing them from growing together and understanding each other, and then Rin's life was cut short.

Tsunade. She rejected Jiraiya initially, and fell in love with someone else.  Although she did eventually develop feelings for Jiraiya it was too late, and his death prevented their romantic relationship from being realized.

According to the theme that the current generation will succeed where the others failed, Sakura and Naruto stand to overcome all the romantic limitations of their counterparts.

Unlike Rin, Sakura has had the opportunity to grow, share her life, and learn to appreciate the heart of the one who truly loves her.  Unlike Tsunade, Sakura will realize her love for the one who loves her before it is too late.  And unlike Kushina, Sakura will have a lifetime of love and happiness once Naruto leads the shinobi world into an era of peace.

Same for Naruto.  Unlike Obito, Naruto has shared his life with the girl he loves and will have the chance to prove himself to her.  Unlike Jiraiya, Naruto will gain the love of his life before it is too late.  And unlike Minato, Naruto will have a longer and happy life with a wife and family. Even Naruto's parallel with Hashirama contains these elements of success, considering Hashirama was married to an Uzumaki and jinchuriki (like Minato) and lived at least long enough to have grandchildren.

So, all that taken together, Naruto and Sakura's forecasted future seems pretty logical and straightforward.  But what about Sasuke?

Sasuke's parallels are Madara, Orochimaru, and Kakashi.  Speaking strictly in terms of romance, there's not a lot of potential there.    As far as we know, Madara was never in a relationship nor did he have any children.  The closest thing Orochimaru has to an interest in women is cross-dressing killing them and wearing their faces.  Kakashi reads smut novels and demonstrates an understanding of intimate relationships, but he's never pursued one.  The reasons why are up for debate.

Sasuke himself has shown little inclination toward or interest in female companionship.  He is not what I would call a romantic figure -- by any stretch of the imagination.  It remains to be seen if Naruto's mojo will ultimately make Sasuke less selfish, cold, and edgy, but even if Sasuke's heart is changed enough to make a relationship possible, I think the only woman who could tolerate or understand him -- and find any joy in it -- is Karin.

 

P.S.  Megi, the perspective of Japanese fans is very interesting.  Thank you for sharing it with us. 

Edited by KnS, 08 July 2013 - 08:11 PM.

[T XD]

From the forums, it seems that sasusaku knows that narusaku will be the end game. I don't think they care much about which of those couples but just ship they're favorites. At least they are not oblivious to the story.

Yeah, they ship their favorites but knows NS is the end game. They know how the manga rolls XD

 

@ megi: These information are interesting. Thanks for sharing them with us. 

[sushi.]

KnS, your posts are always awesome I dunno how you do it.

 

Anyways it reminds me of something I wrote long ago. Kishimoto writes the parallels chronologically.

 

First off, we get Kakashi gaiden. Obito couldn't confess to Rin. We find out his regrets in his dying moments.

 

The second was Tsunade and Jiraiya's last conversation. It is implied he asked her out numerous times, although it's not clear how serious these love declarations were. Nonetheless, they were on the verge of establishing a relationship if he had returned. We also find out of his regrets in his dying moments, one of them being that he couldn't get the girl.

 

Then we get the MK parallel. They had a happy life, but was killed in the middle of it. Kushina showed her regrets about not being able to live together as a family, and watch Naruto grow up. So basically..;

 

Step 1. Confess.

Step 2. Get together.

Step 3. Live together, make a family and grow old together.

 

All the parallels were right about to complete these steps, but died in the process. The parallels aren't only for Team dynamics. It makes me think we'll see and epilogue of adult Naruto and how everyone is doing after the war, with their offsprings.

[Hiraishin]

 

Like all fandoms, there are divisions in the japanese fandom. What I am about to post are from conversations I had with fellow Japanese fans around Sakura's Confession, who do not identify as NaruSaku fans. Actually, one of them is a NaruHina fan. I am posting here because there are some good debate topics. I also added things I found on Japanese blogs.

 

Sakura's Confession Conversation

• point in the story where both Sakura and Naruto do not fully understand each other's feelings. On one side, Sakura believes she is the reason (the promise) of Naruto's suffering over Sasuke. At this point she did not think that Naruto had other reasons besides from her promise and this is widely agreed that Sakura had a misunderstanding of Naruto's feelings. For Naruto, he knows that Sakura is withholding something and is lying, but he does not understand why. He sees the lie because he can see into people's hearts.
• everyone agrees Sakura was indeed lying. indication is that she could not look at Naruto in the eye and her eyes went to the left, which means she is lying (eye aversion ->lying. to me, I don't really believe in the whole left/right eye movement).
• someone brought up that it's possible that she misunderstood him on purpose so that Naruto can hate her.
• a stark contrast of Sakura's hugs to Naruto (first after the Pein arc)

The Hug Part

• Atmosphere important
• After the Pein War hug, the hug is considered the "warm" hug because of the warm atmosphere (end of the war, cheering, etc)
• Confession hug, it is snowing and the hug is considered the "cold" hug. Sakura hugs Naruto so that she does not have to look into his eyes. Knowing she is going to do something unforgivable.
• white snow -> Sakura's "white" lie
• Sakura has to realize her "warmth" comes from Naruto.

What was Sakura lying about/true feelings?

• this part is is pretty tricky. she is lying because she is trying to mislead Naruto from what she is about to do (take down Sasuke) but is she lying about her feelings for Naruto? It is not so easy for anyone to say yes or no. She says them to relieve Naruto from his suffering, is that enough to show that she is affected my Naruto? Sakura is beginning to realize romantic feelings for Naruto.
• she is saying things she subconsciously knows.
• Is Sakura still in love with Sasuke? Mostly no.

A Scrutiny on Kiba's Appearance (469) O_O??

• This part actually really surprised me because I never even thought of it, but it was brought up like 4-5 times. Kiba seems to understand the feelings in the situation? 

 

Thanks for sharing this with us. I like that bit about the "warm" hug in 450, and that Sakura has to realise her "warmth" comes from Naruto. I've heard that whole "Sakura didn't understand Naruto, she thought he was only chasing after Sasuke because of her" and I gotta say that I wholeheartedly disagree. She clearly knew how Naruto felt about Sasuke—she's a smart, reasonable girl. Of course she wouldn't think that. Besides, she explained to Sai at the Tenchi Bridge that Naruto viewed Sasuke as a brother, and she was there when Shizune said to Sai that Naruto wanted to bring back Sasuke for himself, too, not just for Sakura (and Sai agreed). And after Sakura's confession, Sai explained that Sakura knew how Naruto would react to her request for him to stop chasing Sasuke.

 

About Kiba—yeah, I've heard this before, too. That Kiba's reaction to Sakura's confession means that he knew she was lying. No, it was obvious he was mad because she was supposed to be telling Naruto about the Rookies' decision to off Sasuke, but she wasn't doing that at all.

 

Well I can elaborate some more, but I do want to say that in my opinion, most believe that Kishi will end with Naruto and Sakura as the romantic couple, but it does not mean they are only NaruSaku fans, there are plenty of SasuSaku, NaruHina, etc just like all other fandoms. I also 

 

"Is Sakura still in love with Sasuke? Mostly no."

What I'm going to post is from conversations with a NaruSaku fan, a NaruHina fan, and the others didn't identify themselves are any pairing fan.

• What is brought up many times is the quote along the line of "A woman's heart changes like the autumn sky". Taking into consideration Tsunade's and Kushina's hearts. Tsunade had come to love Jiraiya when at first she did not, Kushina's heart changes too for Minato. Slowly unknown to herself, Naruto has become close to Sakura's heart and is truly an important person to her. That is why she lies (because she realizes Naruto is an important person. don't you lie to people you are close to sometimes?).
• I want to say that this quote is not taken as a bad connotation for women (such as their hearts are fickle). They are just saying that a woman's heart is complicated haha.
• don't believe that Sakura's love for Sasuke is "love", but a longing for the childhood love she dreamed of (does that make sense?)
• Sakura's love for Sasuke has been fragmented, held together by a childhood dream. Some say they understand it as Sakura trying to hold on to her childhood in time of peace.

*I'm not saying this is everyone's opinion, just the people whom I talk to.

 

NaruHina or SasuSaku moments?

• the NaruHina fan brings up the point that Hinata's confession and Sakura's confession are very different (and are actually pretty close to each other) for a reason. What is the reason? Unfortunately I forgot what he said hahaha but I don't really think there was elaboration.
• Sakura's confession to Sasuke (part one) was from the heart, something that was done out of the desperation to reach Sasuke emotionally. Sakura's confession to Naruto was done to ease his suffering.

Not really my thing to go into other pairing fandoms, but I happened to see a NaruHina fan and art club and visited. I'll put the opinions that I saw

• know that Hinata is not a main character but a sub character, the battle is between whether Naruto will be paired up with the main character (sakura) or with a sub character (hinata).
• 615 big moment - does this mean that Hinata is now a main character? 

As for other moments, I didn't actively look for any opinions or in-depth analysis. I did see a couple of people note that NaruHina took a really big hit during 631, but besides that, I don't really see anybody bring it up. That is of course taking into consideration that I wasn't looking for it ^^. I'm sure there are other opinions about it though. I hope that clears up things.

Nice. I like this part in particular:

 

• 
  
• What is brought up many times is the quote along the line of "A woman's heart changes like the autumn sky". Taking into consideration Tsunade's and Kushina's hearts. Tsunade had come to love Jiraiya when at first she did not, Kushina's heart changes too for Minato. Slowly unknown to herself, Naruto has become close to Sakura's heart and is truly an important person to her. That is why she lies (because she realizes Naruto is an important person. don't you lie to people you are close to sometimes?).
• 
  
• I want to say that this quote is not taken as a bad connotation for women (such as their hearts are fickle). They are just saying that a woman's heart is complicated haha.

   

I've seen too many people take that "A woman's heart changes like the autumn sky" too literally, because in one of the translations of chapter 469, it was translated as "A woman's heart is fickle," as if the original quote is supposed to have negative connotations. They say that loving Naruto now would make her fickle (it wouldn't, cause she's already shown plenty of reasons to believe she has feelings for him).   Even the Anti-NS FC at Narutoforums is called "Fickle as the Autumn Skies." Please. Yeah, the point of that quote is to say that a woman's heart is complicated.

 

Yes it's true SasuSaku is really huge in Japan. There are so many pairing favorites in the series. What I was trying to say is that they ship any pair they want, but they mostly agree NaruSaku is Kishi's endgame.

 

The thing about SasuSaku is that they do not have anything to grab a hold on to, and in my opinion, they know that. I tried to balance some arguments and find some from a SasuSaku standpoint that had some ground, but it was never brought up. They just like the pairing ^^ 

 

 

Is NS set in stone? Most people I've come across believe that the romantic route is definitely towards Naruto and Sakura. However, they expect more development, especially on Sakura's side.

What is really interesting that I've seen a couple of times is that people are waiting for Sakura to confess another time. It was brought up that she could not reach Sasuke through her heart. They anticipate that Sakura will try again to reveal her feelings to Naruto, and that they hope Naruto will listen.

 

Is NH possible? Now, I would like to say yes, because I see the argument that NH had a lot of momentum in 615. The question is "Will Hinata become a main character to Naruto?" If Hinata is developed that way, NH is possible. The problem is Hinata has not taken that role. Sakura seized it in 631.

 

Which is why the part about Sakura's confession is analyzed - Sakura is the closest to Naruto, she understands him, as seen throughout the series and also in 631. However, Sakura missed Naruto's feelings during her confession. That is why the Japanese anticipate that Sakura confesses again.

Thanks for sharing all this with us!   It's very interesting and enlightening, especially considering this is Kishimoto's intended audience. They'd be the ones who understand his intentions the most.

 

You said that the Japanese fandom ship what they want, but most people agree that NaruSaku is endgame, which is actually what I thought. Nice to know they agree with us on so much. 

 

 

However, Sakura missed Naruto's feelings during her confession. That is why the Japanese anticipate that Sakura confesses again.

 

This part confused me a little bit, though. By "missed," do you mean she didn't understand his feelings? Or that she wasn't able to get through to him, so she'll confess again and this time she'll get through to him, get him to believe her? Or something else? Sorry, I didn't understand.   

[Otaru]

Yeah. Here:

and here:

 

So clearly she's not exactly ecstatic about Hinata having feelings for Naruto.

In the first panel, she's obviously saddened by the revelation that Hinata loves Naruto. In the second, you can see that's quite shocked at seeing Hinata with her hand on Naruto's cheek and sharing a (seemingly) intimate moment. Only makes it worse that she knows how Hinata feels about him.

 

 

I don't really agree with you on this.

 

In the first pic, the translation isn't very well done also.

What Sakura is saying is " Hinata, Naruto no koto..." wich means " Hinata, about Naruto..." if we translate literally.

It's obvious Sakura has just realized that Hinata loves Naruto, but i really don't think the look on her face is sadness because of that fact.

I think, back then, Sakura empathised a lot with Hinata, because she very well could have done the same. That's why she has that face. She understand Hinata so much so she has a touched face. It's like " poor Hinata she risked her life... she must loves Naruto so much... " something like that. You see. It's empathy. Sakura would never think about herself in a situation like that, she's too selfless for that.

 

On the second pic, i think it's just surprise because Hinata isn't like that usually. That time Hinata woke Naruto up in 615, she was strong enough to do it. The old Hinata could have never done that.

Edited by Otaru, 09 July 2013 - 12:47 PM.

[Chatte]

OMG the views of the Japanese fandom is stunning! I mean, actually normal for them but for us who go through all this, is very interesting.

Megi, thanks for sharing!

May I share it on Tumblr too?
This would go best with NS week.

[rocci]

I have a question, what do you think about naruto feeling?
Why there are no meaningful NS interaction after sakura confenssion?
Does it mean naruto didn't love sakura anymore?
Is it true ch.631 just a joke from naruto?

[sushi.]

I have a question, what do you think about naruto feeling?
Why there are no meaningful NS interaction after sakura confenssion?
Does it mean naruto didn't love sakura anymore?
Is it true ch.631 just a joke from naruto?

I don't need a reminder every 10th chapter that he loves her, because I got one two weeks ago. Until proven otherwise, I'll believe he loves the girl.

 

Consider the timeline. I think we can all agree that Naruto loved Sakura by the time of her confession, considering all the emotions he went through back then. Those 3 words triggered so many mixed emotions because they were from that special person. He wouldn't have reacted the way he did if he didn't love her, and only a few weeks has past since then.

 

You can get over a crush in 2 weeks, but since it says "love" in every databook I don't think that is the case.

 

631 wasn't a joke. You don't make that kind of joke to your father. Especially not in Japan. Maybe your bestfriend, not your father and for gods sake not in public. There's nothing that indicates it was a joke. People think we get a hint it was a joke In 632, but I think it the opposite. It shows a contrast. We got a clear view of what Naruto looks like when he is joking, lady lips and all.

Edited by sushi., 09 July 2013 - 03:06 PM.

[megi]

@Chatte I messaged you ^^

 

@mydearbeloved I meant that Sakura tried to reach the boys hearts with her words but could not, so there is anticipation that she will tell Naruto her feelings again (a confession) so that it will get through to him her true feelings ^^

 

 

I have a question, what do you think about naruto feeling?
Why there are no meaningful NS interaction after sakura confenssion?
Does it mean naruto didn't love sakura anymore?
Is it true ch.631 just a joke from naruto?

 

O_O they were mostly in separate places, and although there were a lot of chapters, it wasn't a long time in the naruto universe. no it doesn't mean naruto doesn't love her anymore

[Chatte]

I plan on writing an essay on parallels and foreshadowing in literature. Because as it seems, people are really against them, especially NS, though they are blatantly obvious.

Edited by Chatte, 09 July 2013 - 03:15 PM.

[rocci]

@chatte
I believe half of this manga made from parallel.

[KnS]

KnS, your posts are always awesome I dunno how you do it.

 

Anyways it reminds me of something I wrote long ago. Kishimoto writes the parallels chronologically.

 

Thanks for the compliment.   I just think about stuff and post whatever I think might make sense. 

 

I have a question, what do you think about naruto feeling?
Why there are no meaningful NS interaction after sakura confenssion?
Does it mean naruto didn't love sakura anymore?
Is it true ch.631 just a joke from naruto?

 

631 wasn't a joke. You don't make that kind of joke to your father. Especially not in Japan. Maybe your bestfriend, not your father and for gods sake not in public. There's nothing that indicates it was a joke. People think we get a hint it was a joke In 632, but I think it the opposite. It shows a contrast. We got a clear view of what Naruto looks like when he is joking, lady lips and all.

 

@rocci -- I agree with the explanation sushi. gave.  There's nothing to worry about.  Naruto is not the kind of guy to change his mind or give up.  He has always loved Sakura, and we got proof of it just a few chapters ago. 

 

As for the bolded, I did a visual contrast and compare of when Naruto is serious and when he's joking in this post -- in case anyone missed it or has forgotten. 

[Chatte]

@chatte
I believe half of this manga made from parallel.

Pretty much yes.

[sushi.]

I plan on writing an essay on parallels and foreshadowing in literature. Because as it seems, people are really against them, especially NS, though they are blatantly obvious.

I think people are against them because we use them to "justify" our ship or make it seem more canon. That is not the case. I do not like parallels anymore, too much of a good thing becomes a bad thing. I want NS to happen because of the bond they had, not because the previous generation are prophets or because it's destiny.

 

Parallels are just a literary technique, and Kishi uses it a lot. He also uses a lot of symbols, honestly I really like his symbols.

 

But just because we see the parallels doesn't mean we want them. They're there.

 

When we talk about parallels here it's not for shipping arguments or for the sake of defending our ship, because most of us have similar opinions. I simply want to understand the author's way of writing and analysing it is fun because the parallels are so easy to see anyone could do it.

 

All in all..a prediction or a theory is not the same as a birthday wish.

@rocci -- I agree with the explanation sushi. gave.  There's nothing to worry about.  Naruto is not the kind of guy to change his mind or give up.  He has always loved Sakura, and we got proof of it just a few chapters ago. 

 

As for the bolded, I did a visual contrast and compare of when Naruto is serious and when he's joking in this post -- in case anyone missed it or has forgotten. 

Yes, but I think Naruto really tried to be serious in the scene with Tazuna.

 

He was not joking, he was lying. He is not very good at it, but still lying. XD

In 631 he was honest, and in 632 he was joking.

 

I think Kishi is very skilled at showing characters thoughts through the art. His art is good, although it looks sloppy at times. Another example is when Sasuke is seemingly good, but dark shadows are sketched all over his face which shows he still has evil intentions.

Edited by sushi., 09 July 2013 - 03:30 PM.

[Chatte]

Actually, when you use a parallel as a device for your story, there is a golden rule, so to speak. You don't change the course.

Meaning if Kishi paralleled NS with all the others, he can't change the course of the story by pairing him with HInata, for example.

 

@sushi, ofc, we want it for the bond and everything. I was just referring strictly to parallels ^_^

Edited by Chatte, 09 July 2013 - 03:33 PM.

[sushi.]

Actually, when you use a parallel as a device for your story, there is a golden rule, so to speak. You don't change the course.

Meaning if Kishi paralleled NS with all the others, he can't change the course of the story by pairing him with HInata, for example.

 

@sushi, ofc, we want it for the bond and everything. I was just referring strictly to parallels ^_^

I don't really feel the need to defend my ship on it's own fanclub. XD

 

But I think he could've paired him with Hinata if Naruto was supposed to break the parallels. Of course he has his own free will, but it's not good writing for the main character to break the foreshadowings.

 

I don't think that is how the story is written. The parallels informs me of the author's intent and how he will proceed with the story. Naruto is supposed to surpass the others in every regret they mention in their dying words. Love was one of them. :)

Edited by sushi., 09 July 2013 - 03:45 PM.

[Chatte]

I don't really feel the need to defend my ship on it's own fanclub. XD

 

But I think he could've paired him with Hinata if Naruto was supposed to break the parallels. Of course he has his own free will, but it's not good writing for the main character to break the foreshadowings.

 

I don't think that is how the story is written. The parallels informs me of the author's intent and how he will proceed with the story. Naruto is supposed to surpass the others in every regret they mention in their dying words. Love was one of them. :)

Exactly.

I mean, once you use parallels in literature, you don't break them. So if you plan on using them, you go till the end.

The technique used within parallles is called momentum. So if you break the momentum, you break the parallel. 

 

The principle of parallel construction is a simple one. Plainly put, the reader expects consistency. Ideas that are related to each other (grammarians like to call these "coordinate" ideas) should be expressed in parallel form. Expressions similar in content and function should be expressed similarly.

Parallels are  rhythms, if you break-in the rhythm, you break the momentum.

That's why the whole argument with the "hinata" is wrong.

Because once Kishi has gotten in this route, he won't break the momentum, the golden rule in using parallels.

[KnS]

He was not joking, he was lying. He is not very good at it, but still lying. XD

In 631 he was honest, and in 632 he was joking.

 

I think Kishi is very skilled at showing characters thoughts through the art. His art is good, although it looks sloppy at times. Another example is when Sasuke is seemingly good, but dark shadows are sketched all over his face which shows he still has evil intentions.

 

Bolded -- I agree.  That's exactly what I said in my other post. 

 

And I agree about Kishimoto's art.  I couldn't draw anything to save my life, so I find it amazing how much he can express or convey through even the smallest panel.  I wouldn't know where to start.

[Dalton.T.R]

It never ceases to amaze me at how desperate the NH fanbase is. I was looking around a few websites, trying to catch up on what I've missed, and I came across this place:

 

http://forum.naruto....=27328&page=244

 

I've been there before, a long time ago, but back then the site was more...'balanced' and now it's completely over run by NH and SS fans. I just thought some of the posts were pretty funny and more or less desperate. "The manga supports NH" Yeah, maybe for the past...16 chapters or so, but that ended with 631.

 

I see a lot really hasn't changed. It's still always about what Hinata wants, and WHEN did Naruto 'abandon' his feelings for Sakura? I'd really like to know!